General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Kaden said:

Dull Close Raigh

Unfortunately, ranged units cannot learn Dull Close.

[Kaden]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Unfortunately, ranged units cannot learn Dull Close.

Well, never mind that.

[Flying Shogi]

Since Roderick has Darting Blow on his refine, I'm assuming he would want +Atk over +Spd?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed in Matthew's refine. It seems so...blah.

[Humanoid]

Went to go learn Luke's Prf, but turns out the poor guy (-Atk to boot) never even got enough SP in the first place to learn his default skills.

Think I'll promote a Roderick in order to turn my 4*+9 one with a regular Firesweep Lance into a +10 with an unrefined Prf. For the others, I'm not convinced their unrefined Prfs would beat out a refined generic weapon so I'll hold off.

Finally, I hope that their willingness to give Rod a Prf Firesweep weapon means IS have no balance concerns about adding more of them (and a generic Firesweep Axe) in future.

[Zeo]

@Xenomata Meh. Could have been worse. It doesn't really benefit him. If Matt hits anything with his dagger that doesn't die, chances are if he encounters it again he's going to kill it anyway so the bonus to his attack is negligible. On the other hand he loses HP and another stat by going for this refine. In order to make this build work he needs something like a Chill skill in his B slot, which means his debuffing abilities against the enemy in front of him are decreased since he's sacrificing a seal skill (in my case) or a much more powerful skill (like Special Spiral).

Something to double down on his bulk or even just a normal non-debuff reliant blade tome effect would have been better.

35 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed in Matthew's refine. It seems so...blah.

Same.

[Kaden]

59 minutes ago, Zeo said:

In order to make this build work he needs something like a Chill skill in his B slot, which means his debuffing abilities against the enemy in front of him are decreased since he's sacrificing a seal skill (in my case) or a much more powerful skill (like Special Spiral).

Or you could stick him with Gunnthra and Hrid forever. Wind buddies unite!

On my end, I don't think I'm going to refine any of the new weapons or even build or promote some of the units to 5*. Luke's irrelevant with my dumbass +7 Meisterhardt's existence -- what the hell was that legendary banner way back. Matthew was promoted a few days ago because hey, more personal daggers, but now I feel like he's going to sit around as a dagger unit with a personal, glorified Rogue Dagger. Saizo was my last unique refinement and I partly did it out of why not to see how it played out and later because I threw him on my Anima defense team. The past weapon updates haven't had much that made me immediately want to pick the unique refinement or build a unit. Part of it is because they're units who I'm not that invested in and part of it is color which is mainly red. For example, I like Elincia and Swift Sparrow is great, but too many damn reds that at this point it's going to take someone I really like or has something insane that would make me want to refine their weapon much less even build them which itself is a problem when a lot of the fun stuff is 5* locked. Alm, Celica, Eirika, Eliwood, Lilina, and Tharja used dew and I'd rather use it on other colors. Refining Durandal is going to add more to the stuff I spent on Eliwood.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Kaden

[Xenomata]

Luke's... I get what they are doing, but I feel it'd require him to take Sudden Panic over Panic Ploy, if not as well as Panic Ploy, and that's not an investment I'm willing to do him.
Stick with the Safeguard dude. It's about the only other thing you have going for you...

Roderick probably has it the best of everyone despite how simple and, honestly, kinda boring it is.

Raigh... eh. It's probably good to have the effects of 2 separate tomes and Dull Ranged in one Prf tome, but I'm still always coming back to how meh Raigh himself is...

Matthew... honestly, I think he could have done better with a Bonus Doubler refine, or conditional Close Counter and all stats up that triggers on debuffed foes ala Saber's refine, or even just out of battle AoE damage ala Pain+. Does it fix his kinda low Atk... I mean, I guess? But it's not like people like @Zeo use him for his raw power...

[redlight]

Incredibly dissappointed with this batch. Roderick's is good at least

[Hilda]

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed in Matthew's refine. It seems so...blah.

Matthews refine is fantastic given the right Team members. There is a certain Beast unit that applies -4 to all stats when smiting a unit onto enemys and then there is Arvis and Yune.honestly if that blue Beast unit also runs link atk spd thats 26 additional attack power!!!

Not to mention the bulk Marhew gains from this.

There are so many options to apply debuffs on enemys.

Honestly its a fantastic refine

Edited July 8, 2019 by Hilda

[Fabulously Olivier]

I will probably start a Roderick merge project. What he brings to the table is pretty unique for a non-whale.

[Azuni]

Pretty underwhelming set to me as well;

Rodericks is simple but effective-looking, but I'd prefer Peri over him still, favoring the slaying effect so she can be hit back to become a WoM beacon.

Raighs looks pretty good but he doesn't have the bst/spread to back it up.

Funny how Matthew's prf refine got copied immediately by an inheritable dagger on this new summer banner, which means any dagger unit with a better spread can use the Blizzard effect more effectively.

[Fabulously Olivier]

How viable might Roderick be with Distant Counter and Null C Disrupt?

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

How viable might Roderick be with Distant Counter and Null C Disrupt?

Not viable because he cannot learn Null C-Disrupt.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not viable because he cannot learn Null C-Disrupt.

Shit, I hadn't even noticed that restriction. 

 

Pity, that could have been a really annoying, interesting gimmick build.

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, Etheus said:

Shit, I hadn't even noticed that restriction. 

 

Pity, that could have been a really annoying, interesting gimmick build.

I think IS knew exactly why Faye didnt get a Firesweep bow refine. Exactly because of this reason, the same reason any other Infantry unit wont get a Firesweep Weapon refine.

[Fabulously Olivier]

11 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I think IS knew exactly why Faye didnt get a Firesweep bow refine. Exactly because of this reason, the same reason any other Infantry unit wont get a Firesweep Weapon refine.

Would it even be so bad? A unit utilizing this combo would be missing out on a combat buff from one of their weapon effects, a combat buff from their A skill, and a combat buff from their B skill. That is a lot to sacrifice just for being able to be able to attack opponents without counter and to be able to counter all opponents. It's a big tradeoff which will leave that unit at a large statistical disadvantage in pretty much any realistic fight.

[Ice Dragon]

23 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I think IS knew exactly why Faye didnt get a Firesweep bow refine. Exactly because of this reason, the same reason any other Infantry unit wont get a Firesweep Weapon refine.

Faye didn't get Firesweep Bow as her unique weapon's base effect because she utterly sucks with it. Literally every seriously built Faye prior to her new weapon ran Guard Bow instead and for good reason.

It has nothing to do with Null C-Disrupt.

[Hilda]

5 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Would it even be so bad? A unit utilizing this combo would be missing out on a combat buff from one of their weapon effects, a combat buff from their A skill, and a combat buff from their B skill. That is a lot to sacrifice just for being able to be able to attack opponents without counter and to be able to counter all opponents. It's a big tradeoff which will leave that unit at a large statistical disadvantage in pretty much any realistic fight.

Its not really a big trade off when you consider that you can cripple the enemy Team with AoE splash dmg and stuff like that.
This stuff can lead to really really annoying Aether Raid defense setups.
It would be like faceing a Razzle Dazzle healer, ecxept with much higher BST (which means more bulk and/or Attack) and Damaging or Defensiv specials. So yeah it is a big Deal

The possibilitys could be endless. Also if you want that combo you can have it, you just need to use normal Firesweep weapons on an Infantry unit, which luckily grants no extra refine and Stats.
 

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Its not really a big trade off when you consider that you can cripple the enemy Team with AoE splash dmg and stuff like that.
This stuff can lead to really really annoying Aether Raid defense setups.
It would be like faceing a Razzle Dazzle healer, ecxept with much higher BST (which means more bulk and/or Attack) and Damaging or Defensiv specials. So yeah it is a big Deal

The possibilitys could be endless. Also if you want that combo you can have it, you just need to use normal Firesweep weapons on an Infantry unit, which luckily grants no extra refine and Stats.

Firesweep melee infantry is trash in Aether Raids defense. They have bad movement and threat range that means that you can easily snipe them with a ranged infantry or flier without having to waste an action Shoving, Smiting, or Repositioning them forward first.

Firesweep bow infantry is literally identical to staff infantry with a slightly better selection of skills, but would be inferior at being annoying due to having less access to out-of-combat damage. Pain+ is flat out better than anything that non-staves can get in terms of out-of-combat damage. Jaffar exists with almost this exact setup (and doesn't even need to waste his B slot for Null C-Disrupt), but when was the last time you saw Jaffar in an Aether Raid defense map instead of a Pain+ staff?

There is a reason the most common Firesweep units you see in Aether Raids defense are cavalry.

[FoxyGrandpa]

Roderick's refine is pretty weak. Extra speed is nice, but the dude needed better damage to make up for the deficit in attack he has compared to other lance cavalry. Really wish he got something like Swift Sparrow or Life and Death instead of Darting Blow.

Luke's refine is situational. At the very least, the base weapon itself is great just because of the extra might. I'm curious if this weapon interacts with dull close in any way, as that could make its refine effect pretty good as well.

Raigh's weapon is pretty solid. Cavalry effectiveness is kinda situational in Arena, but could work pretty well in Aether Raids. With Null C-Disrupt in his B-Slot, he seems like he'd be a decent Veronica counter. Owl Tome was his best weapon before so his refine effect is pretty great as well.

Matthew's weapon is alright too, though support from something like Soren or Gunthra may be necessary to use the weapon to its fullest extent

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

I'm curious if this weapon interacts with dull close in any way, as that could make its refine effect pretty good as well.

No need to wonder. Dull Close would make the weapon's attack always trigger against melee opponents. Dull Ranged would do the same to ranged opponents. The problem is Dull Close is currently only available from Summer Cordelia.

[FoxyGrandpa]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

No need to wonder. Dull Close would make the weapon's attack always trigger against melee opponents. Dull Ranged would do the same to ranged opponents. The problem is Dull Close is currently only available from Summer Cordelia.

That's great news. Its a shame that Dull Close is locked to Summer Cordelia, but I could see Luke's refine being quite good with that skill equipped. Still not as effective as a straight death blow refine, but an unconditional +6 damage on a Brave weapon against melee foes is still very powerful and the +6 def helps his enemy phase as well.

There doesn't seem to be much opportunity cost for Luke running Dull Close in his B-Slot either, apart from losing chill and breaker skills. 

[Kaden]

Weird thought popped up in my head today and it was effective against beast damage for Rebecca's new bow whenever she gets one. Rebecca's a hunter and mentions it in some of her quotes and then I figured effective against beast damage would make sense for a hunter. No idea if she or anyone from her village eats lizards, so I didn't think effective against dragons would work as well.

Hunter's Bow: 14 Mt. Effective against flying and beast foes.

Unique refinement ideas:

• In combat against a beast foe, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.
• If foe uses beast damage, grants Atk/Spd/Def+4 during combat.
• In combat against a beast foe, disables [Beast (Armor)], [Beast (Cavalry)], [Beast (Flier)], and [Beast (Infantry)] skills and unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range.

The first idea is a callback to Assassin's Bow with its Daggerbreaker EX and Binding Shield without the counterattack prevention which could be added. Without any passives, =Spd Rebecca with her 34 base speed can only double Caineghis including his Lion King Fang's effect of granting Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 since he would only reach 27 Spd, but not including a +Spd Caineghis who has 27 base speed and 31 after Lion King Fang; Keaton, and Mordecai where Caineghis if transformed would be have Distant Counter and with his Vengeful Fighter, double her on enemy phase. With her default Darting Blow 3, she would add neutral Panne, Reyson without his Heron Wing, Tibarn, and Yarne if he's adjacent to someone given his default Atk/Spd Solo 3. Granted, she could one-shot the beast fliers except maybe Tibarn, so not being able to double them, especially Leanne who only has 16 base neutral defense doesn't really matter. Anyway, point is that this would help out and paired with another -breaker, like anyone running Assassin's Bow or Hero-King Marth, Rebecca would be able to have two -breaker skills, one against beasts and the other up to you.

The second idea came from legendary Lucina's Thogn effect where if she initiates against melee units, she gets Spectrum Blow against them. Problem is that with the effect targeting beasts only, it only working when initiating might not be that great, so I went to Quan's Gae Bolg effect and that works on both phases. Once again, because it's only against beasts, I figured maybe it should grant her a boost to Atk/Spd/Def rather than only Atk/Spd or Atk/Def.

The third idea is similar to Julia's unique refined Dragon Counter effect that disables adaptive damage and grants her Close Counter against dragons. In this case, this effect would disable the beast movement specific transformation effect which as of now, currently is only written as such for Yarne's Bunny Fang, and grants her Close Counter against beasts. The beast movement effects would be:

• Beast armor: "At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, and unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range."
• Beast cavalry: "At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, and if unit initiates combat, inflicts Atk/Def-4 on foe during combat and foe cannot make a follow-up attack."
• Beast fliers: "At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, unit can move 1 extra space. (That turn only. Does not stack.) If unit transforms, grants Atk+2."
• Beast infantry: "At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2 and deals +10 damage when Special triggers."

Universally, it would disable Atk+2 for all beasts which would be the only real thing it does for fliers other than Close Counter since you can't really disable their increased movement in combat. Against the other movement types, though, Rebecca would be able to deny a beast armor's Distant Counter while in turn have Close Counter against them, deny a beast cavalry's Atk/Def-4 and follow-up attack prevention when they initiate against her, and deny a beast infantry's Wo Dao effect when they activate a special.

Ideas one and three could make Rebecca a very cheap anti-beast unit since the only other anti-beast units are picnic Felicia and Flora while everyone else would require an anti-movement weapon of which infantry only has Poison Dagger and Kagero didn't get an anti-infantry personal dagger. If you're looking at a Caineghis counter from this effective against beast bow idea for Rebecca, idea one would prevent his Vengeful Fighter or Bold or Wary Fighter should he be running those while ideas three would prevent his Distant Counter as he's a beast armor, but she still has to go through his 49 effective Def if =Def, Dull Range on his default Distant Def 4, and possibly a charged special if Caineghis managed to have that. =Atk Rebecca with a personal, 14 Mt bow has 43 Atk which becomes 64 against beasts. 64 minus Caineghis's 49 effective Def is 15 and she would be able to double him, so 30 total damage leaving him with 17 HP remaining. A +Atk Rebecca will still fail to kill him leaving him with 7 HP. +Atk Rebecca would have 46 Atk, 69 against beasts, and 69 - 49 = 20. Basically, merge her if you're willing to, put her in range of Drive and/or Spur Atk, and give her an attack boosting A passive.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Selena, Beruka, Boey, and Mae. Good picks. The only of those units I ever really count on is Selena as Surtr counter number 4-ish. Can never have enough of those, so I'd like if she kept the armor slaying. Boey and Mae are pretty much bottom of the barrel for their respective classes so they could use the help. Beruka just needs to keep the slaying effect and I'm sure she'll be useable as her usual tank role.