General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[XRay]

I am hoping for Slaying-Special Spiral for World of Thracia Olwen; got to bust open those tanks. Any maybe Harmonic, Meister, unconditional Vantage, Null C-Disrupt, and Saintly Seraphim effect.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Eh, none of these characters is interesting me much. I do like them all as characters and I'm very curious about what they're doing with Tobin, but it isn't anything I feel like is "must-have" for me. Still gonna wait for Joshua's eventual refine.

[Azuni]

Both WoT!Olwen and Tobin are already budget AA stars for me, so this is quite welcome. I also hope Jagen gets something like Titania/Seth, which would be a good enough reason for me to 5* him for AA use.

Gray is likely to remain as a Sword Valor support.

[Xenomata]

Hm hm...

WoT!Olwen's Thunderhead: same base effect.
If an ally initiates combat against a foe within 2 spaces of unit, inflicts Spd/Res -5 on  that foe during combat.
Note: this description is incorrect. Olwen will also benefit from this refine.

Jagen's Veteran Lance: If foe initiates combat or, at start of combat, if foes HP is greater than or equal to 70%, Grant's Atk/Res +5 to unit during combat.
Same effect as Sabotage Atk 3

Tobin's Jubilant Blade: Effective against Armored foes.
At start of combat, if unit's Max HP is greater than or equal to foes HP by +1, Grant's Atk/Spd/Def/Res +4 to unit during combat. 

Gray's Laid-Back Blade: Effective against Cavalry foes. At start of combat, if unit's HP is greater than or equal to 50%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3 during combat.
If the number of foes within 2 spaces (excluding target) is greater than or equal to the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding unit), Grant's Atk/Spd/Def/Res +5 to unit during combat. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Xenomata

[XRay]

World of Thracia Olwen's Refine looks underwhelming. The player needs a double nuke and double Dancer/Singer setup and feels pretty positioning dependent, so it just does not look great, or at best it is situational. Fuck Treehouse; their translation is wrong. She can also take advantage of the debuffs, not only her allies. @SatsumaFSoysoy, thanks for the info.

Tobin and Gray kept their Effective Weapons, so are good for Arena Assault I guess.

If anyone has a 5* Jagen and would like to share his Refine, it would be most welcomed. Ninja'd.

Spoiler

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by XRay

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Here's a combined pic.

Also, I mentioned this in the General topic, but Thunderhead's English description is wrong.

The -5 Spd/Res works for when Olwen is in combat too, not just allies, but unlike Tharja's Hex and Mirage Rod it doesn't work on Enemy Phase.

[Kaden]

Not sure why they didn't let green Olwen's unique refinement work on both phases. Oh, but she's a ranged cavalry with a personal -blade tome. Meanwhile, all the other monsters in the game and the possibility of a future colorless mage with a personal -blade tome or the gremlin nuke whose offenses apparently exceed triple Brazen Atk/Spd Celica.

And Tobin is Tobin. It would have been nice if he had another effect, but whatever, I guess. Spectrum Boost like Virion, but with HP+3 as well since he's a melee unit. Gray being able to stack a ton of stats is nice. Now, if only he, Luke, and Saber were actually summonable.

[Xenomata]

Olwen: Yeah I agree with @XRay, fuck Treehouse that description is fucking bullshit. I was thinking it was underwhelming as hell because Olwen herself didn't benefit and half of that effect wouldn't even do anything for most Physical-damage allies, but the actual effect means it's actually worth something.

Jagen: Oof, just barely missed getting a Distant Ward weapon... anyway, it looks pretty alright. The combined 5 Res for Jagen and -7 Atk for foes is only 1 point of magic bulk better than if Jagen had a Res refined Berkut's Lance or Barrier Lance, but with the added benefit of also improving Jagen's physical bulk. And extra Atk is always alright.

Tobin: Eh. I guess he has potential to have a ton of HP, but unlike Virion I do not feel compelled to actually build a kit around that on Tobin. He doesn't have Sudden Panic or any other forms of HP checks and Sudden Panic remains a rare skill even with the now-released Compile screen. So... IMO, kind of a miss.

Gray: All around decent. Racist Fury if he's healthy works, and the refine effect (can we call it like Stranded Spectrum? Like Stranded Atk/Def, Stranded Spd/Def, etc? I like that name, Stranded skills) means his all-around spread is all-around better.

Overall though... nothing exciting. Olwen probably has the "strongest" refine just because 5 Spd and Res is not a small loss, and Jagen does at least get something worth writing home about, but it's not something I'm gonna put on him immediately when he can use Berkut's Lance just fine still (even if it does mean being 7 Atk weaker), and I don't use Olwen that much anyway.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Xenomata

[Hilda]

Tobin got shafted hard as a TT reward unit. As they allways do (mostly). The refine is a step backwards, if he had the same refine as Gray it would have been awesome.

[Diovani Bressan]

Olwen's refine is pretty good. Spd/Res-5 is basically a Swift Sparrow effect, and now she can double foes with the same Spd as her. I may get this one

I kinda don't care for the others, although Gray's is pretty cool.

[TWrex]

These refine effects are kinda oof.  I'm not sure why IS thinks adding a bunch of conditional stats to these older units is going to help them, at best it only makes them conditionally on par with newer units.  Like compared to Mareeta, Gray is only marginally better with all effects active yet Mareeta has the benefit of both a slaying effect and NFU in her kit.  And you can't even use the availability argument since Gray is five star exclusive as well.  Tobin's is laughable given his abysmal stat-line.  These units need utility or more unique effects in order to stand out and be worth it in any capacity, or at the very least if you are going to do flat stats make them higher and tailor them to the type of unit they are.  Celica's worked because it focused strictly on making her a good nuke/sweeper by giving her 14 to both ATK/SPD, Gray's does not because he doesn't need +8 to his RES or arguably his DEF.

We need more cool stuff like Wrath tome (Tailtiu) or built in Mircacle (Seliph), instead of X Condition -> +X to all stats.

[Ice Dragon]

59 minutes ago, TWrex said:

at best it only makes them conditionally on par with newer units.

That's the point. They can't sell new units if old units have too easy of a time matching them.

 

59 minutes ago, TWrex said:

Gray's does not because he doesn't need +8 to his RES or arguably his DEF.

Gray has a very balanced stat spread, meaning every stat is useful to him, and getting 32 points of stats is not something you can just brush off. He literally has 197 points of stats not including his weapon's Mt in exchange for being stuck with a Prf Zanbato.

A stat spread of 46/43/40/38/30 is nothing short of absurd for an infantry unit. For comparison, Winter Sothis, a current-generation trainee armor unit with +20 total stat boosts on her weapon, has 44/40/49/35/40 (205 total), only a mere 8 points ahead.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

10 hours ago, Hilda said:

Tobin got shafted hard as a TT reward unit. As they allways do (mostly). The refine is a step backwards, if he had the same refine as Gray it would have been awesome.

Yeah, looking at his Refinement again, I think it would have been better if it is easier to activate the effect. Since he comes with an Effective Weapon, I would at least make the effect also be active if he is facing against armor units, since lots of armor units have HP nearing 50 or higher, way above Tobin's HP.

Keeping Dull Armor on the base Weapon also would have been nice. They might as well throw Lull Armor and/or Null Everything Against Armor in there too to cement his advantage against armor units.

And that goes for Dull Cavalry for Gray as well.

1 hour ago, TWrex said:

We need more cool stuff like Wrath tome (Tailtiu) or built in Mircacle (Seliph), instead of X Condition -> +X to all stats.

For Tobin, I think he needs +X to all stats if he is fighting against armor units. Fast armors and dragon armors are a thing now. The only problem with his condition is that they are based off of HP, which is fine against most units, but it is not really good enough against armor units due to their much higher bulk. If his condition is easier to be met, such as also being active if against armor units, then I think it would have been pretty decent.

Edited March 5, 2020 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

36 minutes ago, XRay said:

For Tobin, I think he needs +X to all stats if he is fighting against armor units. Fast armors and dragon armors are a thing now. The only problem with his condition is that they are based off of HP, which is fine against most units, but it is not really good enough against armor units due to their much higher bulk. If his condition is easier to be met, such as also being active if against armor units, then I think it would have been pretty decent.

Inb4 HP/Atk 2 + HP/Atk 2 builds.

[XRay]

11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Inb4 HP/Atk 2 + HP/Atk 2 builds.

That would just gimp his performance against other units though. I guess it can work if all you need Tobin to do is fight against armor units, but that just feels a bit underwhelming.

[Kaden]

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Inb4 HP/Atk 2 + HP/Atk 2 builds.

Now we await for the tier 4 version of those passives. HP/Atk 5 Tobin.

Dumping tier 4 stat boosts into the 4* pool might not be that bad. They're not that crazy. And cue the fourth level of HP+ being HP+10.

[Sasori]

I'm not the biggest fan of Tobin's refine. He has a good amount of hp so the effect makes sense, but hp conditions are a big pain in PVE. The inflated hp means that the effect will have a hard time triggering on full health enemies.

The other one's are alright, but probably not 200 divine dew fine for me.

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gray has a very balanced stat spread, meaning every stat is useful to him, and getting 32 points of stats is not something you can just brush off. He literally has 197 points of stats not including his weapon's Mt in exchange for being stuck with a Prf Zanbato.

A stat spread of 46/43/40/38/30 is nothing short of absurd for an infantry unit. For comparison, Winter Sothis, a current-generation trainee armor unit with +20 total stat boosts on her weapon, has 44/40/49/35/40 (205 total), only a mere 8 points ahead.

I just realized that because Gray has access to one more set of Dragonflowers than Sothis, that actually puts Gray at a 202 total of 47/44/41/39/31, only 3 points behind Sothis.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

That would just gimp his performance against other units though. I guess it can work if all you need Tobin to do is fight against armor units, but that just feels a bit underwhelming.

Meme builds are the best builds.

[XRay]

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I just realized that because Gray has access to one more set of Dragonflowers than Sothis, that actually puts Gray at a 202 total of 47/44/41/39/31, only 3 points behind Sothis.

If the player is patient enough for Gray's Resplendent stats, he will be 7 points ahead.

[Zeo]

Tobin's refine is trash. +4 to all stats still gives him an incredibly average spread and it's conditional for PvE because of how high enemy HP tends to be. For PvP even other Gen 1 sword units are superior options. Heck if you want an armor slayer you could just refine Hana, an infinitely better unit that's even outclassed by others herself. You could literally just refine an Armorslasher and give it to Soleil for better less expensive results! They could have given him a busted weapon with 3-4 effects and it wouldn't have made him much better than a Gen 3 trainee, instead they give him this. I don't even care about Tobin and I'm still disappointed.

Jagen was going to struggle no matter what he got, even still he's still just a fairly weak niche magic tank, but at least with his weapon he can double as a support somewhat with his RES and Sabotage skill. It's ok but I can't help but feel like it was a missed opportunity not giving him a Distant Ward refine. It would have been really freaking cool. Distant Ward remains his best A s kill (or Mirror Stance) so it's ok, just... disappointing considering Saber got conditional DC. They could have thrown Jagen a bone.

Olwen's is similar to Tharja's in a way which is cool. Blade tome on top is neat of course. She has a decent spread so she wasn't going to get anything too good. As it stands I don't see this making her OP or anything like that. If you like her then go ahead but it's kind of a take it or leave it type refine. She gets a little support utility.

Gray is the winner of this batch. Spectrum stat boosts are the most boring thing you can give units but they did it right with Gray. With fairly easy conditions he can get +8 to all stats which makes him really want merges. A +10 Gray with +10 DF gets +14 to all stats which is just crazy. You can give him DC because of this or give him Solo/Rouse skills which make him a more than viable option for your sword slot, nevermind cavalry effectiveness as the cherry on top. If you want to slap on stat boosts this is how you do it, you can tell the favoritism for *5 units based on comparing this and Tobin's refine, especially considering Gray was already a better unit.

If I had no direction for *5 exclusive +10 projects. Gray would be a strong consideration. A maximum investment Gray would have a spread of 52/49/46/44/36 without Summoner Support, any skills or ally/drive support. That's insane.

...I want a Gray.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Zeo

[Icelerate]

16 hours ago, Hilda said:

Tobin got shafted hard as a TT reward unit. As they allways do (mostly). The refine is a step backwards, if he had the same refine as Gray it would have been awesome.

Tobin had one less effect than Gray. I thought nowadays weapons are supposed to have three effects but Tobin only has two. 

[Xenomata]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Tobin had one less effect than Gray. I thought nowadays weapons are supposed to have three effects but Tobin only has two. 

Same story with some other GHB units who received unique refines.

• Navarre only has Special Cooldown -1 in addition to Quickened Pulse 2.
• Zephiel has a Dragon Exempt Threaten Def in addition to Distant Def.
• Lloyd has a slightly strengthened Regal Blade effect in addition to Infantry Magic Bond.
• Clive only has Armor Effectiveness in addition to... uh, let's call it Ally Support Drive.

Remember that doesn't include GHB units who have the same weapon as summonable units, or in FemRobin's case a carbon copy of her manly man selfs weapon.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Tobin had one less effect than Gray. I thought nowadays weapons are supposed to have three effects but Tobin only has two. 

There are zero hard rules for how many effects a weapon is "supposed" to have. Most weapons end up with two "non-free" effects, but some have only one and only a rare few have more.

[mcsilas]

8 hours ago, Zeo said:

...I want a Gray.

Well...there is a revival banner with him right now

While stat bonuses seem a bit boring and repetitive, I'm glad it makes Gray a big ball of stats. With Fury and +Atk he's the second highest Atk red unit in my barracks (only after +Atk Soleil). Hidden stats protect him from chills, and I know Fury isn't exactly the best A skill with the HP threshold, but I usually use Brazens for seals so he sort of makes up for the 3 all-stat loss when under 50% lol

[Diovani Bressan]

I think Tobin will enjoy a Savage Blow or Pain+ ally in his team for AA. Someone that can reduce foe's HP. Duma can also be used for it. Everytime I use Thrasir in AA, I also use Duma.