Ice Dragon Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Othin said: Full base Sol Lance effect would mean a +Res refinement would give it a strictly better effect, and its unique refinement would probably be even better. Wouldn't necessarily make Narcian better overall, but it still seems a bit generous for such an easily available unit relative to a weapon on a relatively recent premium unit. Maybe a lower HP gain, like 5 to match the recent winter weapons or 7 to beat them? I'm not seeing a good reason to reduce Sol Lance's effect for a unit that has mediocre stats all around and has never had a niche to call his own. Narcian ties with Beruka and Reyson for the lowest Atk stat of all green fliers. Reyson. The only green units with lower Atk than him are Merric, Titania, and Inigo. His stats are actually comparable to female Kana's... if you pretend Kana had 5 less Spd than she actually does and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to Assets and Flaws and if you pretend Kana didn't have an exclusive weapon and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to infantry-exclusive skills. Edited March 27, 2020 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrosion Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: His stats are actually comparable to female Kana's... if you pretend Kana had 5 less Spd than she actually does and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to Assets and Flaws and if you pretend Kana didn't have an exclusive weapon and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to infantry-exclusive skills. ......And also, if you pretend Kana isn't a dragon and thus by default can't be completely terrible....unless if you're vanilla F!Corrin. Never mind Azura or M!Kana, where the *expletive* is her Prf, IS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Nope. Nopenopenopenopenope. I cannot accept this. Not one bit. Gaius would NEVER waste candy like this! ...anyway, this is a decent batch of refine units. Once again one of the units is a unit that I've +10ed (in this case Anamnesis Lady Eirika), and once again one of the units is a Veteran. What worries me is that unlike Jagen who has a solid niche as one of the highest Res Blue Cavs in the game, Gunter can be said to be a worse Frederick. Freddy, on the other hand, has a fairly straightforward refine overall (Armor effectiveness and DB3) largely because of his base weapon, while Gunter was given a Silver Axe, so like Jagen he has free reign to any number of potentially deadly effects... Course the only unit I'm really interested in seeing is Eirika, so don't mind me if, come a week or two, I'm very judgemental of everyones refines except hers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Xenomata said: while Gunter was given a Silver Axe, so like Jagen he has free reign to any number of potentially deadly effects... Meister Special Spiral axe would be nice, along with Blade tome Refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, XRay said: Meister Special Spiral axe would be nice, along with Blade tome Refinement. Dangit XRay it's just a new weapon + refine, not a new premium unit! ...though when you bring it up, the idea of granting an ally unit Brave Attack or Bladetome status would be interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just now, Xenomata said: Dangit XRay it's just a new weapon + refine, not a new premium unit! ...though when you bring it up, the idea of granting an ally unit Brave Attack or Bladetome status would be interesting... I think you just powercrept my idea! Think of the POSSIBILITIES with Drive Meister and Drive Bladetome together! ANY unit can be a Counter-Vantage unit now! Oh! And think of Drive Vantage or Drive Null C-Disrupt! Or Drive Counter! Or Drive debuff nullification! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, XRay said: I think you just powercrept my idea! Think of the POSSIBILITIES with Drive Meister and Drive Bladetome together! ANY unit can be a Counter-Vantage unit now! Oh! And think of Drive Vantage or Drive Null C-Disrupt! Or Drive Counter! Or Drive debuff nullification! You are probably jacked on a lot of sugar right now, but I LIKE the enthusiasm and ideas! Eliwood can give Bonus Doubler status, no reason other Legendary/Mythic heroes can't give other statuses. I mean, probably not as a Drive, but Eliwood just gives BD to the highest Atk unit, if other units could give similar statuses then someone could very well have Bonus Doubler, Bladetome, and Brave status at the same time. Not even Brave Ike could live through that kind of nuking, and he can take a LOT of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Xenomata said: You are probably jacked on a lot of sugar right now, but I LIKE the enthusiasm and ideas! Eliwood can give Bonus Doubler status, no reason other Legendary/Mythic heroes can't give other statuses. I mean, probably not as a Drive, but Eliwood just gives BD to the highest Atk unit, if other units could give similar statuses then someone could very well have Bonus Doubler, Bladetome, and Brave status at the same time. Not even Brave Ike could live through that kind of nuking, and he can take a LOT of punishment. Indeed. Having it as a status instead of a Drive would be even better, so Player Phase units would be able to take advantage of it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Tybrosion said: ......And also, if you pretend Kana isn't a dragon and thus by default can't be completely terrible....unless if you're vanilla F!Corrin. Never mind Azura or M!Kana, where the *expletive* is her Prf, IS? It is impossible to be completely terrible when you have access to an inheritable, refinable Distant Counter weapon and infantry-exclusive skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I'm interested in seeing what Ursula's refine is. I used her fairly often before getting Reinhardt, so, I might give her her refine in honor of those memories. Maybe it'll even make her part of my regular rotation for some game modes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said: I'm interested in seeing what Ursula's refine is. I used her fairly often before getting Reinhardt, so, I might give her her refine in honor of those memories. Maybe it'll even make her part of my regular rotation for some game modes again. Well she's known for having Bolting in her own game, so maybe they'll give her some splash damage like the Venin Sword. Ever since Kronya got added, I'm finding splash damage builds are becoming more and more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelerate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Is it possible to have multiple statuses on a unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benice Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: His stats are actually comparable to female Kana's... if you pretend Kana had 5 less Spd than she actually does and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to Assets and Flaws and if you pretend Kana didn't have an exclusive weapon and if you pretend Kana didn't have access to infantry-exclusive skills. But Kana will never be as entertaining as Narcian! Hm hm hm hm! 40 minutes ago, Icelerate said: Is it possible to have multiple statuses on a unit? Pretty sure that you can. I've been panicked/isolated a few times, and it sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Icelerate said: Is it possible to have multiple statuses on a unit? Yes. It is physically possible to have every positive and negative status effect in the game simultaneously on a single unit. It will just take a long time to cycle through all of their icons on the map. Edited March 28, 2020 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiddo Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I'm not even sure if a Sol effect on a prf would save Narcian. He's just so... bad. Even when he first game out he was pretty mediocre and was pretty much just "only use if you want a flying axe, didn't get Camilla or Minerva, and don't want to use Cherche.". Either that or you really wanted to use Lancebreaker for some reason. The refine on it would have to be pretty great, like say an impact skill, so that he could actually deal some damage and not just get crushed on retaliation in the process. Mirror Impact + disable adaptive damage wouldn't be horrible, take advantage of his better than average for an axe flier res so maybe he can have a small niche in a flierball team of taking on dragons and dragging them out of place with the right B skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, TheNiddo said: I'm not even sure if a Sol effect on a prf would save Narcian. He's just so... bad. Even when he first game out he was pretty mediocre and was pretty much just "only use if you want a flying axe, didn't get Camilla or Minerva, and don't want to use Cherche.". Either that or you really wanted to use Lancebreaker for some reason. The refine on it would have to be pretty great, like say an impact skill, so that he could actually deal some damage and not just get crushed on retaliation in the process. Mirror Impact + disable adaptive damage wouldn't be horrible, take advantage of his better than average for an axe flier res so maybe he can have a small niche in a flierball team of taking on dragons and dragging them out of place with the right B skill. Mirror Impact and disabling adaptive damage would be absolutely horrible. Narcian does not have any form of automatic follow up, so Impact's defensive boost are a complete waste on him. The only two units with adaptive damage against melee units are Annette and Hel. Dragons have adaptive damage only against ranged units. If the player is going for Drag Back, they can run Firesweep Axe. Stat wise, his only real flaw is that his Spd stat is in the crap middling range. He is not really slow enough to be able rely on higher cooldown Specials and he is not exactly fast either. You can either turn him into a Spd tank and hope his Spd is enough, or turn him into a Def/Res tank and settle for lower damage output compared to other Def/Res tanks. For Refinements, anything that boosts his Spd directly (stat buffs) or indirectly (Quick Riposte, Enemy Phase follow-up denial) would help address his Spd issue. Alternatively, the Refinement can just ignore his Spd entirely and fix his damage output with some thing like Special Spiral/Steady Breath/Warding Breath or just give him a massive boost to his bulk with Fort. Def/Res with Lull Atk/Def on top so he is more in line with other Def/Res tanks. Sol Lance effect would definitely help, although 10 HP is too low if that is its only effect. Edited March 28, 2020 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercakete Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 17 hours ago, Xenomata said: Nope. Nopenopenopenopenope. I cannot accept this. Not one bit. Gaius would NEVER waste candy like this! Good point. That said, the lollipop dagger is cute and I like it so I'm still kind of wanting to build a Gaius now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, TheNiddo said: I'm not even sure if a Sol effect on a prf would save Narcian. He's just so... bad. Even when he first game out he was pretty mediocre and was pretty much just "only use if you want a flying axe, didn't get Camilla or Minerva, and don't want to use Cherche.". Either that or you really wanted to use Lancebreaker for some reason. The refine on it would have to be pretty great, like say an impact skill, so that he could actually deal some damage and not just get crushed on retaliation in the process. Mirror Impact + disable adaptive damage wouldn't be horrible, take advantage of his better than average for an axe flier res so maybe he can have a small niche in a flierball team of taking on dragons and dragging them out of place with the right B skill. I was thinking something like this: Base effect: Sol Lance + Shining Bow Refine effect: At the start of combat, if [bonus] is active on unit, [penalty] is active on foe, or foe's HP < 100%, grants unit Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat and unit makes a guaranteed follow-up. Basically, he gets a similar effect as Arthur and Jakob, but his condition is a simple version of "if I am better than you". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 49 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: I was thinking something like this: Base effect: Sol Lance + Shining Bow Refine effect: At the start of combat, if [bonus] is active on unit, [penalty] is active on foe, or foe's HP < 100%, grants unit Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat and unit makes a guaranteed follow-up. Basically, he gets a similar effect as Arthur and Jakob, but his condition is a simple version of "if I am better than you". Not a huge fan of Shining Bow since it is conditional. I think Slaying effect or just Reprisal Lance effect would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 minute ago, XRay said: Not a huge fan of Shining Bow since it is conditional. I think Slaying effect or just Reprisal Lance effect would be better. Shining Bow's effect is there for lore and nothing else. Runesword is a magic weapon, so it's only natural it should have the magic weapon effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said: Shining Bow's effect is there for lore and nothing else. Runesword is a magic weapon, so it's only natural it should have the magic weapon effect. I think I prefer adaptive damage in that scenario. Or at least make the Shining effect condition easier to activate to just be Def being greater than Res. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 minute ago, XRay said: I think I prefer adaptive damage in that scenario. Or at least make the Shining effect condition easier to activate to just be Def being greater than Res. The effect is a bonus on top of the Sol Lance effect. I literally would have removed the effect entirely if the weapon weren't a magic weapon. Be grateful I'm giving it a second base effect at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: The effect is a bonus on top of the Sol Lance effect. I literally would have removed the effect entirely if the weapon weren't a magic weapon. Be grateful I'm giving it a second base effect at all. But you are not Intelligent Systems though. But if you are, please sneak in the Meister effect for everyone in the Refinement update. And adaptive damage is not that overpowered. Nor is having Def>Res for Shining effect. Edited March 28, 2020 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayyyaka Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 No Ivaldi :/ but I'm okay with a Gleipnir refine. I hope Ursula's new tome has a firesweep effect to emulate Bolting (minus the long range which would be cool but I don't expect.) Her tome is also rather red, just not glowing like firesweep weapons usually are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, XRay said: And adaptive damage is not that overpowered. Nor is having Def>Res for Shining effect. It isn't, but the only other magic weapons in the game (Shining Bow and Light Brand) have the Shining Bow effect, not adaptive damage. Though someone who has played Three Houses will have to let me know Crusher works in that game. I know it deals magic damage, but I don't know if it does so because it casts magic or because it just whacks people magically. Edited March 28, 2020 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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