General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Jingle Jangle]

My +2 Siegbert would much appreciate a refine. Currently he is pretty lackluster with no defining traits. Say IS, can Rhajat get something special soon?

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Hence the aformentioned coding work. Wouldn't be as easy, but still completely possible I'm sure.

The coding would not be hard. The problem is the fact that it would almost certainly require server downtime.

You basically just need to write code that loops over all player accounts, loops over all units owned by the player, and replaces the Dire Thunder skill on every Olwen with the alternate Dire Thunder skill (and then equip it if the original skill was equipped). Not difficult, but running the code would be unsafe if game clients are still connected to the server, so you'd need the maintenance downtime.

And then you need to code the loop a second time in the game client and patch the game client to tell the client to do that when the game client starts back up to make sure the client and server are still in sync.

 

It would probably just be easier to make a refine that has more impact on Olwen than Reinhardt. Like adding damage based on a Spd comparison (like Giga Excalibur).

Edited April 29, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[Fabulously Olivier]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The coding would not be hard. The problem is the fact that it would almost certainly require server downtime.

You basically just need to write code that loops over all player accounts, loops over all units owned by the player, and replaces the Dire Thunder skill on every Olwen with the alternate Dire Thunder skill (and then equip it if the original skill was equipped). Not difficult, but running the code would be unsafe if game clients are still connected to the server, so you'd need the maintenance downtime.

And then you need to code the loop a second time in the game client and patch the game client to tell the client to do that when the game client starts back up to make sure the client and server are still in sync.

 

It would probably just be easier to make a refine that has more impact on Olwen than Reinhardt. Like adding damage based on a Spd comparison (like Giga Excalibur).

Well, even then, Reinhardt could benefit from a +atk refine. The extra hp and atk would be a small thing, but it would still help him. I'm fine with that though.

[SuperNova125]

The young Archanea banner gave me aside from Caeda, a useless then Siegbert however, now that he has a weapon refine that is going to change. Whatever the refine I hope I can get lucky and free pull him as the current one is +Hp -Spd, not the best nature out there. 

[EricaofRenais]

I have a +2 +atk Siegbert so I hope his refine is good because I haven't used him in a long time.

[Diovani Bressan]

none of them are interesting units for me. That's another month saving Dew or using them on units that have really good refinements and they don't have it yet on my barracks.

[Ice Dragon]

27 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Well, even then, Reinhardt could benefit from a +atk refine. The extra hp and atk would be a small thing, but it would still help him. I'm fine with that though.

I have no problem with that. He already has Lull Atk/Res and Joint Drive Atk recently added to the list of toys he can play with. Another 5 HP and 1 Atk isn't really going to break things. Fae will still murder him regardless.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I have no problem with that. He already has Lull Atk/Res and Joint Drive Atk recently added to the list of toys he can play with. Another 5 HP and 1 Atk isn't really going to break things. Fae will still murder him regardless.

Don't forget the DB3 seal.

[Ice Dragon]

34 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Don't forget the DB3 seal.

Yeah, that too. Reinhardt has plenty of toys to play with. Another one won't hurt.

[SockPuppet]

I like Siegbert a lot but I haven’t gotten him yet, hope now is my chance but there’s so much temptation in the orb department as of late! 
 

I would use a Leon, but I really don’t like his art. The artist draws eyes too oddly for my liking.

Edited April 29, 2020 by SockPuppet

[Tybrosion]

5 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Within the existing framework it's trivial to give Olwen a completely new weapon only she can learn, don't see why it has to be in any way related to Dire Thunder. Just give her a blue version of Thunderhead and all's good.

You say that, but Olwen actually does have a second Prf weapon in Thracia 776.

However, it’s a sword that they could’ve given to her alt instead of making something up.

[Othin]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I have no problem with that. He already has Lull Atk/Res and Joint Drive Atk recently added to the list of toys he can play with. Another 5 HP and 1 Atk isn't really going to break things. Fae will still murder him regardless.

2 HP, not 5.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah, that too. Reinhardt has plenty of toys to play with. Another one won't hurt.

The thing is, in the interest of making more characters viable, anything that benefits Reinhardt would just lead to further outclassing Olwen who is the character that needs the help way more. If it's something that blanket benefits both of them then there's just no reason at all to field her over Reinhardt.

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

You say that, but Olwen actually does have a second Prf weapon in Thracia 776.

However, it’s a sword that they could’ve given to her alt instead of making something up.

That one still baffles me. There's plenty of characters without anything resembling a prf they could have given Thunderhead to (and literally characters in Thracia, like that guy you need to kill Olwen to get). And the Blessed Sword is a plenty interesting weapon in its own right.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Jotari

[FoxyGrandpa]

Interested to see what Leon gets. Always wanted to build the dude, but it seemed like a waste given that Norne & Jamke were better units. Having a Slaying Effect + Special Spiral 3 would be a unique effect that differentiates him from other budget archers and would make him a discount Leif. I'm hoping he keeps the slaying base effect & gets a brave effect when near an armor or infantry ally. This wouldn't be unique, or even particularly good on him given his low speed, but it would be cool reference to Hunter's Volley & his mates, Valbar & Kamui.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Still waiting on that Joshua refine. Guess they're just going through the GHB/TT units one at a time.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Remember the glory days of months with like 8 weapon refines?

 

I miss that.

[Troykv]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Remember the glory days of months with like 8 weapon refines?

 

I miss that.

Those were also the months where Marth needed a refine.

[Xenomata]

Just throwing some ideas out there...

~Since some Fates units like to receive refines based off their personal skills, I think Siegbert might get something similar to what Corrin and Clive/Mathilda got, but purely in raw damage. Like "If unit is within 2 spaces of support partner, unit or support partner will receive Atk +6 during combat." The base effect I have to imagine will get upgraded to Swift Sparrow 3, because no one likes Swift Sparrow 2 anymore.

~In Echoes, the Killer Bow had a certain skill attached to it called Hunter's Volley, essentially making it into a Brave Bow in a game where true Brave weapons do not exist, only multi-hit combat arts. It seems guaranteed that Leon will get a Prf Slaying Bow as the base weapon, so I think a reasonable guess as to what the refine effect will be is going to be the same refine as Alm's Falchion. In a game where Personal Skills do not exist and Leon isn't particularly known for anything aside from his Valbar affection, I highly doubt they'll make his refine "If unit is within 2 spaces of Valbar: Open and Honest, unit will protect him at all costs, even if it means the enemies life"

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

The thing is, in the interest of making more characters viable, anything that benefits Reinhardt would just lead to further outclassing Olwen who is the character that needs the help way more. If it's something that blanket benefits both of them then there's just no reason at all to field her over Reinhardt.

Just give Reinhardt something that is he cannot benefit from as much.

Eliminating the Spd penalty on Dire Thunder as the base affect with the Refinement being Desperation benefits Olwen far more than it benefits Reinhardt. This allows Olwen to run Lull Spd/Res to boost her damage output.

For Reinhardt to take advantage of it, he will need to run Brash Assault, and dropping below 50% HP is not exactly easy.

[Othin]

Personally, I don't particularly want a Dire Thunder refine anytime soon. We just got an identical green clone of it less than a year ago, alongside a red variant that trades 1 Mt for 3 Spd - the same tradeoff refineable brave melee weapons have for their generic refines, like Cherche's Axe.

[FoxyGrandpa]

Yeah, I don't think Dire Thunder (or F2P Dragons for that matter) will get refines any time soon. Most casual players I know still cheese most of the in-game content with Reinhardt + other autobattle monsters like merged up Nowi. Given this, I don't think its their highest priority to buff these units in anyway.

If I were to buff this weapon for Olwen, I'd just do something like remove the speed penalty and boost damage by difference between unit & foes speed (max +7). The main thing Olwen needs is damage since 26 attack is a joke & a refine like this would make her better than reinhardt in theory because she can quad AND deal the same amount of damage.The thing is this could end up being OP on Reinhardt too with the right setup since he can run double swift sparrow (+11 speed), Lull Spd Res (+3 speed) and Hone Cav Support (+6 speed) to reach 47 speed at +10. 

 

[XRay]

59 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

The thing is this could end up being OP on Reinhardt too with the right setup since he can run double swift sparrow (+11 speed), Lull Spd Res (+3 speed) and Hone Cav Support (+6 speed) to reach 47 speed at +10. 

Fast Brave builds are not really viable without Desperation. Fast Brave builds simply do not have the power to consistently punch through tanks in two hits. It is fine to use Lull Spd/Res on a defense team, but under player control, Desperation is mandatory in my opinion for quad attacks.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, XRay said:

Just give Reinhardt something that is he cannot benefit from as much.

Eliminating the Spd penalty on Dire Thunder as the base affect with the Refinement being Desperation benefits Olwen far more than it benefits Reinhardt. This allows Olwen to run Lull Spd/Res to boost her damage output.

For Reinhardt to take advantage of it, he will need to run Brash Assault, and dropping below 50% HP is not exactly easy.

Yeah that's exactly what I suggested before (throwing in Darting Blow for good measure).

2 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Yeah, I don't think Dire Thunder (or F2P Dragons for that matter) will get refines any time soon. Most casual players I know still cheese most of the in-game content with Reinhardt + other autobattle monsters like merged up Nowi. Given this, I don't think its their highest priority to buff these units in anyway.

If I were to buff this weapon for Olwen, I'd just do something like remove the speed penalty and boost damage by difference between unit & foes speed (max +7). The main thing Olwen needs is damage since 26 attack is a joke & a refine like this would make her better than reinhardt in theory because she can quad AND deal the same amount of damage.The thing is this could end up being OP on Reinhardt too with the right setup since he can run double swift sparrow (+11 speed), Lull Spd Res (+3 speed) and Hone Cav Support (+6 speed) to reach 47 speed at +10. 

 

Speaking of Nowi, I would like to see one of the early Manaketes get a spur dragon effect on a weapon. Not necessarily Nowi but someone like her or Fae or one of the Kanas or something. Ninian would probably work the best mechanically with it even if I think for lore reasons she should have some kind of refine that works around her support.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Jotari

[FoxyGrandpa]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Fast Brave builds are not really viable without Desperation. Fast Brave builds simply do not have the power to consistently punch through tanks in two hits. It is fine to use Lull Spd/Res on a defense team, but under player control, Desperation is mandatory in my opinion for quad attacks.

My Idea for a Dire Thunder refine gave it a Giga Excalibur / Vassal Blade effect. The purpose for investing that much into speed is higher damage, not to quad. Desperation is probably still better than lull speed res, but your damage output decreases by 5.

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

My Idea for a Dire Thunder refine gave it a Giga Excalibur / Vassal Blade effect. The purpose for investing that much into speed is higher damage, not to quad. Desperation is probably still better than lull speed res, but your damage output decreases by 5.

Quad attacks has a much higher total damage output, as attacking four times and activating Luna is more than enough to offset the lower damage per hit.