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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
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Gwendolyn's and Siegbert's weapons look great.

Leon's is okay, but his Spd is still too low to make the most of it without support.

Narcian's is okay. It bumps his stat spread up to 45/33/33/36/30, which is at least passable. Comparable to Michalis, at least.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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Narcian's refine is pretty similar to what I was expecting. Not too exciting, but it's something.

Gwendolyn's looks lovely. Really want to build her with DC+Vengeful Fighter now. Guess I could feed her my extra Nagi for DC+SF, then buy a Grima manual for VF? It'd feel weird to use a Nagi that way, though, especially since that would mean I can't feed this one to Winter Jaffar. With just a few hours left on Edelgard's banner, I'm tempted to finally jump in and see if I get another Nagi while going for Edelgard/Celica, but... Already about to go for Lyon, I don't think I should do that. I'll get other fodder eventually, anyway.

Wonder if Sheena will get a similar refine to Gwendolyn's.

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A little disappointed they didn't go all the way with Narcian's and just give it the same +10 heal that Sol Lance has, but I can live with this.  Conditional spectrum stat buff is up there with the Wo Dao as the most boring stat refine out there, but it may work out given that Narcian uses all of his stats.  Hard to say whether or not it will be more consistent than the usual Slaying Hammer I typically run for Colosseum modes.

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Ended up doing a few pulls on the banner and getting my third Nagi, so now I definitely have the leeway to use one.

Before I merge up Gwendolyn, though, I'll have to pick a nature. My current one is +Res, but I also have +Atk and +Def on hand. I'll probably be mainly using her in Arena, but potentially occasionally in AR as well. Does anyone have ideas on what seems best with her prf?

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Leon's prf is okay (except not giving him +4 res, that's kinda lame) but I don't know if this even gives him a niche given that Norne with a refined Slaying Bow arguably has a better stat spread (noticably less attack and slightly less defense, but higher speed & much higher res). The HP condition also makes it a bit clunky to use in Player Phase builds since it has no synergy with Desperation.

Does anyone have any build ideas that can make use of his new weapon?

 

Edited by FoxyGrandpa
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11 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Leon's prf is okay (except not giving him +4 res, that's kinda lame) but I don't know if this even gives him a niche given that Norne with a refined Slaying Bow arguably has a better stat spread (noticably less attack and slightly less defense, but higher speed & much higher res). The HP condition also makes it a bit clunky to use in Player Phase builds since it has no synergy with Desperation.

Does anyone have any build ideas that can make use of his new weapon?

Any ranged unit with a decent Atk and access to a Slaying Weapon should consider a Blazing build.

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19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Any ranged unit with a decent Atk and access to a Slaying Weapon should consider a Blazing build.

That actually doesn't sound like a half bad idea. Special Spiral synergizes decently well with the HP threshold, and Life & Death 4 + the weapon base effect should theoretically give him enough speed to make use of the avoiding follow-up affect.

The only issue I have with this is that attack refine seems arguably better for this type of build. 

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Just now, FoxyGrandpa said:

The only issue I have with this is that attack refine seems arguably better for this type of build. 

Both have its merits. I lean towards Atk Refine if you do not need help reaching Wings of Mercy range. If you need help reaching Wings of Mercy range, I would stick with his Special Refinement since it helps him eat counter attacks more safely as it prevents doubles from foes.

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Wendy - That looks pretty good.

Siegbert - Bonus neutralization + a nice bump to offensive stats when he's all alone and attacking is damn sweet.  Very tempted to give him Atk/Spd Solo for even more shenanigans.

Leon - Hoo boy.  No follow-ups is defensive, but if he wants to double, he'll want speed, so the foe is less likely to follow-up anyway, short of a special skill (like maybe DC VF armors).  If I ever get this, it's going to be on a Spd one, not an Atk one.  Feels like a niche that I won't use, because I much prefer murdering things before they can counter.  And the attack bonus?  If he's +Atk, his offensive stats become 41/30, which is colorless Midori.  At +Spd, it's 38/37, which is about on par with Eleanora.  Except they have better weapon options.

Narcian - I'd run him with a Smoke unit.  The healing's situational, though I feel like he's probably going to die before it kicks in.  Stat boost is nice, at least.

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Siegbert's Atk/Spd Dull Solo unique refinement feels like what the tier 4 Solo skills should have been.

Siegbert gets Atk/Spd+9 and neutralizes all field buffs on his foe with unique refined Dark Greatsword's Swift Sparrow 2 and Atk/Spd and Dull Solo unique refinement. That gives him 59/44 offenses if he initiates and is not adjacent to anyone or 55/40 offenses on enemy phase and when he's not adjacent to anyone. CYL Roy with unique refined Blazing Durandal has 51/41 offenses, 36 Def, prevents a follow-up attack from his foe, and gains special cooldown charge + 1 and inflicts special cooldown - 1 on his foe when he initiates. Also, +Spd Eliwood with unique refined Blazing Durandal has 50/40 offenses and 33/32 defenses when initiating. Add +2 if someone has his resplendent form and I guess +4 as well since he's easier to merge than CYL Roy or Siegbert. So, Siegbert has higher offenses on either phase and doesn't have to deal with field buffs, but he doesn't have anything to help with special charging or preventing his foe's special from charging or preventing his foe's follow-up attack compared to Eliwood and CYL Roy.

There's also legendary Eirika who has 50/39 offenses at all times with Storm Sieglinde where if she fulfills its conditions, the she will have 30/24 defenses and gains special cooldown charge + 1 per attack by her.

Siegbert is probably the most comparable to Lethe now. With her Brazen Cat Fang and when transformed, Lethe has 49/41 offenses. Brazen Cat Fang's other effect is Atk/Spd Solo 3, so she will have 55/47 offenses. If she initiates when transformed, then she inflicts Atk/Def-4 on her foe and prevents her foe's follow-up attack. The debuffs effectively give her 59/47 offenses and 30/23 defenses. Compared to Siegbert, she's faster and has higher resistance but she trades neutralizing field buffs on her foe for follow-up prevention and needs to be transformed and initiate in order to do so and also inflict Atk/Def-4.

3 hours ago, Xenomata said:

... get someone else to do it for him.

I wonder if that's the case. I saw a comment I think a day or two ago about how Virion would be a good ally to Ursula to help her use her Blue-Crow Tome's unique refinement. That would also extend to Aversa and Iago for someone to help, but considering units like Gunnthra, Hrid, CYL Micaiah, Yune, or whoever with Sudden Panic, it might be their way to try and sell those units and banners. Something like, "You like Narcian, Ursula, or whoever? Come spend your orbs and money on getting sweaty F!Corrin, Lute, Yune, etc. Or invest so you can succeed in Aether Raids and get more Heroic Grails for Aversa, Iago, AND whoever you like."

2 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

A little disappointed they didn't go all the way with Narcian's and just give it the same +10 heal that Sol Lance has, but I can live with this.

Yeah, not sure why they didn't do this. It's just 3 HP and on an old unit that people probably would not care if he could heal 10 HP with each attack. Oh no! 10 HP! Whatever will we do!

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The only one I was keeping an eye on was Leon, but I think I can scratch that option now. He was competing for the +10 bow slot with Klein, Virion, and maaaybe Norne (but I only have three copies of her so that's speculative). For now this is probably all theoretical anyway as Ashnard is probably a better immediate use of my feathers. And Mininerva. And Altena/Reyson if they turn up in sufficient numbers. Guess I can just keep delaying any decision near-indefinitely then.

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4 hours ago, Xenomata said:


~Why did they give yet another Grail unit a refine that they can't really take advantage of themselves...? Ursula at least technically had Threaten Res, but Narc needs to either learn a penalty-inflicting skill or get someone else to do it for him.
Bah whatever, least he's not stuck with just an Emerald Axe anymore.

Well Siegbert got an alright refine. He can do his usual thing better, and that's all I can really ask for. But I am NOT happy they skimped out on making the basic effect better...

Thats where Brunnya with her RES Smoke and Zephiel with his Refined Eckesachs Threaten Def 4 comes in! Its all about Teamplay in Bern!

Edited by Hilda
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3 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

A little disappointed they didn't go all the way with Narcian's and just give it the same +10 heal that Sol Lance has, but I can live with this.  Conditional spectrum stat buff is up there with the Wo Dao as the most boring stat refine out there, but it may work out given that Narcian uses all of his stats.  Hard to say whether or not it will be more consistent than the usual Slaying Hammer I typically run for Colosseum modes.

Time to meme an Abyssal when Narcian survives multiple combats because of the extra healing. Maybe get him Mystic Boost lol.

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Thinking about Gwendolyn - while DC+VF seems like the most obvious use, it seems that it's almost entirely a strictly worse version of Brave Hector with Ostian Counter + SF. Even her stats are almost strictly worse. She's way easier to merge, of course, which is very significant for me.

She can use Bold Fighter for some dual-phase strategies Hector can't pull off, though.

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13 hours ago, eclipse said:

Feels like a niche that I won't use, because I much prefer murdering things before they can counter.

The special Refinement is good for setting up a Blazing build and Wings of Mercy, so he will still be murdering things before they can counter attack. He can more safely eat counter attacks since he does not have to worry about units doubling him with Quick Riposte.

If you do not need help getting into Wings of Mercy range, Atk Refinement is better for combat performance.

Blazing Nuke:
+Atk
Bow of Beauty
Atk Refinement — special Refinement
Blazing Light — Blazing Wind — Growing Wind
Life and Death
Special Spiral
Savage Blow
Hardy Bearing — Attack +3 — Heavy Blade

Brave Nuke:
+Atk
Brave Bow
Ruptured Sky
Death Blow
Lull Spd/Def
Savage Blow
Death Blow

Challenger List: Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 buffs. Leon with Slaying Bow got full Dragonflowers, 0/-2/-2/-2, and taken 2 damage to simulate the Atk+2 increase from Bow of Beauty [Atk] versus Slaying Bow [Atk].

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Leon (5*+10 +atk -hp)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Ruptured Sky  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Lull Spd Def 3  
😄 Savage Blow 3  
S: Death Blow 3  
  
Leon (5*+10 +atk -hp)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Blazing Light  
A: Life and Death 4  
B: Special Spiral 3  
😄 Savage Blow 3  
S: Hardy Bearing 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  

Brave 321:44:10
Slaying 323:25:27

Hm... They look practically the same kill count wise. Thought there might be more signficant improvement. If I set both units to 1 HP, Brave Bow is actually superior.

Brave 309:59:7
Slaying 301:63:11

@FoxyGrandpa, if you wanted to see the combat numbers.

I guess if a player already got Brave Bow on Leon, it is probably better stick with that. If building up from scratch, using Bow of Beauty saves you 20,000 Feathers, but you will need to spend 200 Dew. If a player is pimping him out anyways with premium skills, they will still need to dump Orbs on 5* exclusive units for the Special, A. and B slots for both builds (unless a player does not mind using Grails for fodder, Blazing Light is 5* exclusive, and sometimes you just want Blazing Light's pattern and damage output rather than Blazing Wind's/Growing Wind's pattern/damage output).

Edited by XRay
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Maybe I'll make a Gwendolyn project. I really do need a blue armor merge, now that I'm finishing my BK project and starting an OG Hector one.

 

But that's a consideration for later. I need a Legendary Hector to sacrifice if I'm going to even think about a Gwen project.

Edited by Etheus
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11 hours ago, Hilda said:

Thats where Brunnya with her RES Smoke and Zephiel with his Refined Eckesachs Threaten Def 4 comes in! Its all about Teamplay in Bern!

I just notice they cover all three primary colors too, which is pretty neat. They can also do Tactics since they are all different movement types.

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11 hours ago, Kaden said:

Siegbert's Atk/Spd Dull Solo unique refinement feels like what the tier 4 Solo skills should have been.

The tier 4 Solo skills didn't need anything else. None of the Atk/Spd tier 4 skills have bonus effects except for Bond, which has the hardest condition to fulfill.

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Siegbert will be getting his refine.  I will think about Wendy, but I don't have good fodder for her so she is way down the line.  the other two look OK, but not anything I really need or want right now so they stay with the sets they have for now.

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@XRay that's just it.  Nullifying follow-ups is defensive, while Leon's strength is offensive, so it's a wee bit weird, to put it mildly!  Still, appreciate the numbers, thanks!

For a budget build, his refine makes even less sense, since Special Spiral isn't as easily accessible.

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7 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

Saddest thing about that is that even with all those boosts his stats aren't very impressive. Say he gets a much needed resplendent boost (for his art more than anything...)

At the very highest peak without field buffs he's sitting at 58/55/38/42/35. Mindboggling that +0 units today can rival a spread like that.

Still, healing for 13 per hit sounds incredibly fun and I hope to see that in action as well.

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6 hours ago, XRay said:

I just notice they cover all three primary colors too, which is pretty neat. They can also do Tactics since they are all different movement types.

I think they should have included Iotes Shield into his Refine too, would have made him excellent

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