General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[SuperNova125]

Pretty much everyone expected Celica to be the 5* book 2 unit so no surprise her. Sheena is really welcome as along with Effie and Gwendolyn they are the armors many people have build and lately these guys get good weapons if Gwendolyn and Draug are something to go by. Berkut is the next grail in line so it was expected not that I care about him as a unit. I don't know how to feel about Corrin as this could mean that dragons are the next in line for refines similar to armors and grails so Fae and Nowi are arriving or they released Corrin's weapon to "calm" down the people that want the gen 1 dragons to get weapons. 

[SockPuppet]

Poor Setsuna. I don't have one built, but I was hoping she would get a refine this go-round in order to finish off the colorless book 1 pool. 

I hope Effie and her are next.

[Diovani Bressan]

Hm... I feel we will not get 3-4* Book 2 refinements until we start to get more than 1 Book 2 per update... Like, we get a 5* Book 2 and an 3-4* Book 2.

Even if we continue to get a Book 1 grail unit per month, we will only start Book 2 grail units in 2021. He still have Legion, Valter, Arden, Arvis and Joshua to go. There is also Black Knight, but he is a case apart, since he shares weapon with a Book 2 unit and has a DC weapon, so they may refine both at the same time.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I think that the armor refines trend will continue next month, and the obvious candidates are Effie and OG Hector.

 

I'm going to make a wild guess in that our next month will be:

OG Hector with OG Armads as the dedicated 5 star exclusive and armor.

Legion as the GHB slot.

Setsuna because it feels right.

And Nowi, because my expectations are beneath the floor.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Jave]

Omg Sheena YESSSSSSS

please be a good one, PLEASE 

[Humanoid]

Picks are fair enough if I ignore personal biases, it's just that I very much doubt I'd get any use out of them. F Corrin's new weapon, if it's good without a refinement, might find a place on a 4*+10. Bonus points if it's useful on player phase because Nowi exists.

Cecilia continues to be the odd one out and I'm still hopeful it's her turn next. Setsuna is debatable because she did get a new toy some time back, even if it is inheritable, while Gronnraven has literally nothing. The rest either are dancers, DC units, armoured, grail units, trainees, and Reinhardt, so those two named stick out like a sore thumb. I'd be happy with something like Shiro/Sumia, Effie, Cecilia, Setsuna. If they insist on a red then Joshua or Arden I guess.

Of the Book 1 5-star exclusives it's really only Olwen who needs something given that OG Hector has access to Berserk Armads. Just give her Blue Thunderhead already (Blunderhead ...heheh).

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Picks are fair enough if I ignore personal biases, it's just that I very much doubt I'd get any use out of them. F Corrin's new weapon, if it's good without a refinement, might find a place on a 4*+10. Bonus points if it's useful on player phase because Nowi exists.

Cecilia continues to be the odd one out and I'm still hopeful it's her turn next. Setsuna is debatable because she did get a new toy some time back, even if it is inheritable, while Gronnraven has literally nothing. The rest either are dancers, DC units, armoured, grail units, trainees, and Reinhardt, so those two named stick out like a sore thumb. I'd be happy with something like Shiro/Sumia, Effie, Cecilia, Setsuna. If they insist on a red then Joshua or Arden I guess.

Of the Book 1 5-star exclusives it's really only Olwen who needs something given that OG Hector has access to Berserk Armads. Just give her Blue Thunderhead already (Blunderhead ...heheh).

I feel if Olwen is getting a new weapon it should be something that tries to mirror some of the effects of her personal weapon the Blessed sword. Why oh why did they give her an alt and not actually give her her prf weapon? Anyone could have been given the generic effect of Thunderhead.

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I feel if Olwen is getting a new weapon it should be something that tries to mirror some of the effects of her personal weapon the Blessed sword. Why oh why did they give her an alt and not actually give her her prf weapon? Anyone could have been given the generic effect of Thunderhead.

Because that banner also had Leif with a sword and sword Reinhardt on the same banner. THAT ... would've been horrific if you were aiming for any specific hero ... and later on even if you wanted all three of them.

[Ice Dragon]

Hoping Sheena's refine is good. Draug's and Gwendolyn's refines were both spot on, so I'm hoping they don't drop the ball.

It's most likely that they'll keep Slaying Axe as its base effect, and I'm hoping for a Guard or Dull effect (or both) as its refine effect. Alternatively, a copy-paste of Gwendolyn's weapon would be fine, too.

 

Corrin's base weapon is Dark Breath, which, well, kind of sucks. Her Atk stat is also abysmally bad, the second worst among all dragons (only Ninian has lower Atk).

Her weapon's name in Japanese is 冥輝のブレス (meiki no breath), which... is ambiguous in meaning. It's literally "dark-shine breath". It gives me Xeno'jiiva (冥灯龍, meitōryū, "Hades's torch dragon") vibes, so... nuclear laser dragon Corrin? The floor is lava?

Chances are its base effect will be the same as or similar to Dark Breath's, though I'm hoping that it isn't the same because Dark Breath sucks. I'd personally like to see a Daunt effect on it instead or possibly Hikami's effect, though something like Chill or even Chaos Named would also work.

And Blizzard as its refine if its base effect inflicts penalties.

 

Berkut's base weapon is Barrier Lance, and I expect his new weapon to have the same base effect or a slight upgrade. A Guard or Dull effect on the refine would be nice to open up his B slot if you're running Distant Counter on him. I don't think they can possibly screw this one up since Berkut has a stat line that telegraphs his role pretty well.

 

Celica basically has Spectrum Push as its base effect. I would not be at all surprised if they just did the exact same here as they did to Ragnarok, Brazen refine and all.

 

Anyways, an updated list of Book 1 units without refines:

Spoiler

Launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Azura
Cecilia
Effie
Fae
Nowi
Olivia
Setsuna

Launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Hector (Armads)
Ryoma (Raijinto)

Book 1 post-launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Ninian
Legion
Arden

Book 1 post-launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Olwen (Dire Thunder)
Reinhardt (Dire Thunder)
Ike (Ragnell)
Xander (Siegfried)
Camus (Gradivus)
Valter (Cursed Lance)
Black Knight (Alondite)
Sigurd (Divine Tyrfing)
Arvis (Valflame)
Ayra (Ayra's Blade)
Dorcas (Stout Tomahawk)
Joshua (Audhumla)

I would honestly not be surprised if sometime in the next few months we get Azura, Olivia, Ninian, and Flying Olivia all at the same time. Ninian counts as a free unit. Right? Right?

Edited June 30, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Because that banner also had Leif with a sword and sword Reinhardt on the same banner. THAT ... would've been horrific if you were aiming for any specific hero ... and later on even if you wanted all three of them.

She (and Reinhardt) really didn't need to be in that specific banner. The grand opening for Thracia included two units already in the game -_-

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

She (and Reinhardt) really didn't need to be in that specific banner. The grand opening for Thracia included two units already in the game -_-

I agree that they didn't have to be on that banner, but that wasn't really the point I was responding to.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

This batch of refines is probably a skip for me, no one I really use much. Reinhardt (it'll happen!), Cecilia, Fae, and Joshua are the Book 1 units I'm waiting for.

[Fabulously Olivier]

10 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

This batch of refines is probably a skip for me, no one I really use much. Reinhardt (it'll happen!), Cecilia, Fae, and Joshua are the Book 1 units I'm waiting for.

Would love for Joshua to get one. I like him as a character, but he was really average even on release.

 

Also, Dire Thunder's refine will probably be designed to help Olwen more than Reinhardt. Just a guess, but Spd +3 (base) and Flashing Blade 4 (Eff) seem likely.

[paladin21]

11 hours ago, Humanoid said:

F Corrin's new weapon, if it's good without a refinement, might find a place on a 4*+10. Bonus points if it's useful on player phase because Nowi exists.

I want to see this one, since I have F!Corrin 5*+10 with the distant-counter breath. If the weapon+refine don't fit into her build, I might just be disappointed as #*@! and not use that weapon at all. However, if it has it built-in, I'll be dancing happily (and looking like crazy or stupid).

[bottlegnomes]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Berkut's base weapon is Barrier Lance, and I expect his new weapon to have the same base effect or a slight upgrade. A Guard or Dull effect on the refine would be nice to open up his B slot if you're running Distant Counter on him. I don't think they can possibly screw this one up since Berkut has a stat line that telegraphs his role pretty well.

Watch it be some BS like "If unit's spd >= enemy's spd +4 atk/spd/def/res." But yeah, unless they pull something truly asinine like that, it's pretty hard to mess up Berkut. He's got a solid, if crept, statline, a weapon that already lent itself to his role, and like 90% of recent effects would be beneficial to him (guaranteed follow-up, preventing follow-ups, stat buffs/debuffs, special acceleration/deceleration). Conditional DC would be great too, but that might make him step on his gacha counterpart's toes a bit too much.

Looking forward to his and Celica's. Corrin and Sheena I can take or leave, but both of them could use it and hopefully all are good.

[Fabulously Olivier]

For Berkut, I'd really like to see Bracing Stance 2 or 3 as the base effect and Distant Ward as the refine. 

 

Simple and effective for his stat line, if a little boring. But also, having this high resistance cavalry lance tank will set him apart from Camus quite a bit. Also, the freedom to put Warding Stance 4 or Bracing Stance 3 in his A slot to complement a Distant Ward weapon would help give him a place when the otherwise superior Conrad exists.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Diovani Bressan]

A lot of people expect Blizzard/Broadleaf effect on Corrin. And honestly, it can save her from being... bad. She can change from Atk/Spd Smoke breath to maybe Smoke Dagger breath?

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ninian counts as a free unit. Right? Right?

Ninian is a free unit, since you can get a copy for free by completing Rank 5 in Heroes' Path. 

[Sunwoo]

7 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, Dire Thunder's refine will probably be designed to help Olwen more than Reinhardt. Just a guess, but Spd +3 (base) and Flashing Blade 4 (Eff) seem likely.

I don't know. Olwen's massive speed lead over Reinhardt may be her biggest advantage against him, but she'd probably appreciate having more attack in general. Flashing Blade 4 on her would be all right, especially if Dire Thunder gets lighter, but I think she'd like something like spd/res lull a lot more.

Yeah, spd/res lull would also benefit Reinhardt too, but trying to find a refine that benefits only Olwen and gives Reinhardt absolutely nothing is ... probably not going to help Olwen THAT much either.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sunwoo

[Xenomata]

This is probably the first time I'm really not that excited for a Refinery update... sure there's been disappointing weapons and refines, but this time none of the units particularly excite me...

• Sheena's default Killer Axe will be upgraded. She'd be just fine getting a copy-paste of Gwendolyn's weapon, though I think she should get some sort of huge AoE Atk debuff. Think weapons like Tharja's Hex or Mirage Rod. I could also see them trying to work with Sheena's armor weakness nullification, but that seems doubtful.
• Corrin... I really think she should get a Peshkats-like weapon, because otherwise she just doesn't have a lot to make her stand out from existing Blue Manaketes. She'd probably also want a effect like what Subaki and Selena have, but she's not as low-Atk as they are...
• The original Berkut's Lance I think was meant to emulate Kriemhild, but now that Kriemhild is actually in the game... he could probably get conditional DC. Maybe without the same "penalty" as Kriemhild, since some people may actually consider that penalty a buff.
• Beloved Zofia is basically just what Ragnarok used to be but with a boost to Def/Res as well, so I can see them giving it the exact same treatment. Maybe sub out Brazen Atk/Spd with the same refine as Peri's Lance?

I think the biggest problem here is that the unit that I SHOULD be most excited for, Celica, just doesn't compare to modern swords anymore. Heck, this was a REAL bad time for me to go and summon Mareeta, who has every advantage Celica wishes she had, all for the low low price of not being next to anyone.
This coming Weapon Refinery banner is not gonna be that exciting. Two common as hell units and a meh unit (at least meh until she gets refined, depending on how good it is).

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I think the biggest problem here is that the unit that I SHOULD be most excited for, Celica, just doesn't compare to modern swords anymore. Heck, this was a REAL bad time for me to go and summon Mareeta, who has every advantage Celica wishes she had, all for the low low price of not being next to anyone.

I would not discount FH!Celica. Looking only at raw stats, and assuming she gets Ragnarok treatment, she slightly surpasses Larcei and Mareeta.

FH!Celica got 35/35 offensive stat spread. Extra 1/1 from Flowers. 4/4 from Beloved Zofia. 7/7 from Refinement.
Total: 47/47
The extra 7 or 8 points in Atk effectively offsets the lack Slaying Effect (with Moonbow as the benchmark), which Mareeta's Sword and Larcei's Edge both have. Assuming the average enemy Def is 50, Moonbow gets 15 damage. FH!Celica's stat boost condition is the easiest to meet and she also gets recoil damage.

Mareeta got 35/42 offensive stat spread. 4/4 from Mareeta's Sword.
Total: 39/46
Mareeta with Spd super Asset allows her to match FH!Celica's Spd. She also got Null Follow-Up.

Larcei got 36/40 offensive stat spread. 4/4 from Larcei's Edge.
Total: 40/44
Larcei also got Spd super Asset. She also got Dull All. Larcei +Spd +10+0 with Brazen Atk/Spd 7 has 75 Spd, which means Regnal Astra gets 30 damage, about twice as effective as Moonbow.

In terms of raw damage output and assuming all three double, I think Larcei is probably the best. If you want to go tank busting, Mareeta is your girl (I think M!Byleth and F!Byleth is better for that role though). For ease of use, FH!Celica got that covered as her stat boost conditions are the easiest to meet, and she also gets free recoil damage for getting into Wings of Mercy range more easily.

Edited July 1, 2020 by XRay

[Xenomata]

@XRay Maybe it's a little bold to assume she'd just get the same exact treatment as Ragnarok... given her statline and the Def+3 from Beloved Zofia, it could easily also be a more defensive refine, such as giving her the Repel/Close Call damage reduction based off Spd (without the positioning effects of course).
It'd pair with her default skillset coming with Chill Spd without being an overwhelmingly powerful refine, given her otherwise meh Spd... I mean, some other refined weapons do that, matching up with the wielders default skillset.

[Diovani Bressan]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:42 AM, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, Dire Thunder's refine will probably be designed to help Olwen more than Reinhardt. Just a guess, but Spd +3 (base) and Flashing Blade 4 (Eff) seem likely.

On 6/30/2020 at 7:24 PM, Sunwoo said:

I don't know. Olwen's massive speed lead over Reinhardt may be her biggest advantage against him, but she'd probably appreciate having more attack in general. Flashing Blade 4 on her would be all right, especially if Dire Thunder gets lighter, but I think she'd like something like spd/res lull a lot more.

Yeah, spd/res lull would also benefit Reinhardt too, but trying to find a refine that benefits only Olwen and gives Reinhardt absolutely nothing is ... probably not going to help Olwen THAT much either.

Even though Olwen needs more help than Reinhardt, they share weapon, so Dire Thunder needs to get something that is useful for both. With that said, Flashing Blade isn't a good option here since Reinhardt doesn't have Spd to use it. Changing the Spd penalty would be ok, since it's a simple change in the base effect.

I liked Sunwoo's idead. A Lull Res is a pretty nice option, since help both. Maybe Lull Atk/Res, or something similar to Olwen's Thunderhead that debuffs foes within 2 spaces.

[Humanoid]

Just give it the blade effect as a refine. Olwen benefits more when she quads but it helps both just fine. 😛

 

In all seriousness, it should be fairly trivial to just give Olwen a new learnable weapon that co-exists with Dire Thunder so I don't know why we'd have to wrack our brains that hard to find an appropriate refine for it. Give Dire Thunder a refine that's balanced around Reinhardt using it, and give Olwen Blunderhead or whatever.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Just give it the blade effect as a refine. Olwen benefits more when she quads but it helps both just fine. 😛

 

In all seriousness, it should be fairly trivial to just give Olwen a new learnable weapon that co-exists with Dire Thunder so I don't know why we'd have to wrack our brains that hard to find an appropriate refine for it. Give Dire Thunder a refine that's balanced around Reinhardt using it, and give Olwen Blunderhead or whatever.

So then would Olwen get access simultaneously to the Dire Thunder Refine and her new weapon, or only her new weapon?

[Humanoid]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So then would Olwen get access simultaneously to the Dire Thunder Refine and her new weapon, or only her new weapon?

Both, just like Eliwood has access to both versions of Durandal and their respective refines while Roy just has one.