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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

That's a pretty cool idea for Ninian. Is the refinement also in this description, or it's the base effect?

Also, I don't think she will have Spd+3 in the base effect, since no one got a permanent stat boost (like Spd+3) in the base effect when they got a prf weapon in the update. All the weapon that got refined and have that type of stat boost are weapon that already had that effect when they got released.

 

Wait really? That's sort of weird with how many prfs do give stat boosts.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Wait really? That's sort of weird with how many prfs do give stat boosts.

Starting with CYL 1, it became common for Prf weapon added though new heroes to have stat boost in the weapon's base effect. If they don't have it, they usually have accelerate special trigger effect instead.

For the new weapons added in the updates for old heroes, none have stat boosts in the base effect. The closest thing you can argue about is Yato, that when refined the base effect changes from Darting Blow 2 to a permanent Atk/Spd/Def/Res+2... but refinement is required, so I will not consider it.

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3 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Saias, Effie and Rhajat too? Geez louise, we got a lot this time.

Sigurd/Seliph will share one. And I assume Arvis/Saias will share one as well. If both of these assumptions are correct, it still evens out to the usual 4 new weapons.

 

Still, I have a +10 Sigurd that I really want to give a much-needed power boost to. And if it's good enough, I may double up and start a Seliph project.

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1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Sigurd/Seliph will share one. And I assume Arvis/Saias will share one as well. If both of these assumptions are correct, it still evens out to the usual 4 new weapons.

 

Still, I have a +10 Sigurd that I really want to give a much-needed power boost to. And if it's good enough, I may double up and start a Seliph project.

It actually says it right there in the notifications. Sigurd and Seliph will share one, and Arvis and Saias won't ,they will have their respective weapons (Valflame and Wargod's Tome) refined. So we got 5 refines this time.

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2 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

It actually says it right there in the notifications. Sigurd and Seliph will share one, and Arvis and Saias won't ,they will have their respective weapons (Valflame and Wargod's Tome) refined. So we got 5 refines this time.

Valflame and Wargod's Tome have identical effects right now. There's no reason to expect their refines to be different. They might be, but it will be a surprise if they are.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier
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Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if both Wargod’s Tome and Valfame get the same effect in their respective refines. Aside from them pretty much being the same tome as it is right now, it is too generous for IS to just give us 2 grail refines without some sort of catch IMO lol. 
 

That said, I DO hope they finish up on Book 1 refines... Joshua and Valter in November would make for good progress, alongside Fae and Nowi finally. Throw in Flora for our book 2 5 star.

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32 minutes ago, SockPuppet said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if both Wargod’s Tome and Valfame get the same effect in their respective refines. Aside from them pretty much being the same tome as it is right now, it is too generous for IS to just give us 2 grail refines without some sort of catch IMO lol. 
 

That said, I DO hope they finish up on Book 1 refines... Joshua and Valter in November would make for good progress, alongside Fae and Nowi finally. Throw in Flora for our book 2 5 star.

Man I hope their refines are different. Two weapons that are literally identical aside from the name and sprite bothers me for ineffable reasons. Especially when you have them on the same goddamn unit. Looking at you Legendary and Fallen Tiki >.>

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I guess two each of regular pool common units, 5-star exclusives and grail units is a fair spread. Effie probably the only one who's a realistic chance for me is Effie - I've had a 5-star copy with DC inherited that I haven't used for three years, if the refine is bad I may as well just pass the DC on to some other unit.

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I'm really hoping Alvis gets a good refine. I've plus 10nd him and I really wish he were good. Giving him a Blizzard effect would synergize well with the ploys Valflame already has. And also buffing the ploys from their current -4 to -5, the standard for ploy skills, or maybe even a heftier -6.

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I really really hope Saias gets a different refine from Arvis. One that is better. Arvis has himself recovery ring while Saias doesn't and is basically Arvis, but without the prf skill and blue. I've +10ed the guy so plz IS make him usable.

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Nice, making up for lost time. Effie is the main one of these I've been looking forward to, but the others are all welcome as well. Saias is an especially nice surprise.

Updating my list of Book 1 non-staff/seasonal/DC units awaiting refines:

  • Red:
    • No prf: Olivia (dancer), Arden (grail)
    • Has prf: Ayra, Joshua (grail)
  • Blue:
    • No prf: Nowi, Azura (dancer), Ninian (dancer)
    • Has prf: Olwen/Reinhardt, Valter (grail)
  • Green:
    • No prf: Fae
    • Has prf: Hector

Nowi, Fae, Arden, and the dancers are now the only ones who don't have any sort of prf. Nowi, Fae, Olwen/Reinhardt, Hector, and the dancers are the only ones left from the first 6 months.

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Had this +Res Seliph for very long in my barracks just in case I wanted to build him however, I didn't like the original Turfing's refine so I manualed him about a month ago. What didn't know is that he had divine tyrfing as well, so he will get a cool new weapon and I won't have a Seliph. I also had build Arvis and Saias in the past however they seemed too similar so I gave up on Arvis and foddered him and after a while Saias had the same fate. I haven't/don't intend to build Effie or Rhajat so there is that. Hopefully I get a Seliph soon enough so give him some quick merges from the manuals. Also I hope the refine has desperation for the enemy to help activate Sigurd's B slot and lot's of damage reduction to complement the original effect. 

Next month has to be Fae or Nowi. They are some of the only book 1 units without a personal weapon at all.

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

Updating my list of Book 1 non-staff/seasonal/DC units awaiting refines:

Hmm... I wonder when they are going to start working on staff units, if ever. The only other staff unit besides AOTB!Veronica that will most likely get a Refine is BE!Camilla.

I want to see what Azama and Wrys get due to their abysmal Atk. I am hoping for something hilarious like reducing damage dealt by the difference between the unit's Atk and foe's Atk and heal 50% of total HP whenever unit attacks.

 

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Hmm... I wonder when they are going to start working on staff units, if ever. The only other staff unit besides AOTB!Veronica that will most likely get a Refine is BE!Camilla.

I want to see what Azama and Wrys get due to their abysmal Atk. I am hoping for something hilarious like reducing damage dealt by the difference between the unit's Atk and foe's Atk and heal 50% of total HP whenever unit attacks.

 

Azama has a really distinctive personal skill that's being completely unrepresented in Heroes. Not sure how it could be faithfully adapted without being as useless there, but his ability call down bolts of divine lightning should probably be acknowledged.

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Azama has a really distinctive personal skill that's being completely unrepresented in Heroes. Not sure how it could be faithfully adapted without being as useless there, but his ability call down bolts of divine lightning should probably be acknowledged.

Ooh! I remember now, THAT sounds fun! I would get rid of the no Weapon requirement though, cause you cannot have a Refined Weapon with a condition that activates if no Weapon is equipped. To make it more useful in Heroes, I think it needs to be buffed up a bit to better match Heroes' gameplay.

Divine Retribution: Mt 14
Calculates damage from staff like other weapons. Deals +5 damage to foe per unit's attack. When foe attacks, if unit's HP does not reduce to 0, deal damage to foe equal to damage received.

Refinement:
If unit's HP > 1 and foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP. When unit attacks, restores 50% of unit's HP.

Azama honestly is not going to be doing any damage normally (unless it is someone like Raven with double Life and Death), so I gave him +5 damage so he can at least finish an enemy off. His Refinement gives him permanent Miracle and makes that Miracle spammable.

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...muh? Sorry I spent all of last night playing Dragalia Lost, whad I- heh? That's a lot of refines...

Arvis and Saias I have to assume will get refines somewhat in line with what Lute got a lot earlier, turning the Ploy effect into a Sabotage effect and then getting bonus stats in-combat against penaltied foes.

Divine Tyrfing is kind of hard to predict. It's current effect only neutralizes damage from magic foes, so they could boost it to neutralize all ranged attacks. Personally, I hope they give it the Urvan treatment and make Sigurd into a mobile Bike, and Seliph into a budget Bike. That would just be so many layers of bullcrap.

Rhajat started with Keen Gronnwolf, so she has to be getting that as at least one effect. But after that... who knows? Raigh got additional effects with his Wolftome refine, maybe Rhajat will take some inspiration from her future reincarnation and get a Rein effect?

Effie is... completely in the air. She is one of the last Silver weapon users to get a refine though, aside from Dancer Olivia. I think they'll give her an effect to reference her Prf, though we'll just have to wait and see I guess. I have to assume, however, that nothing they could give her will make her better than Brave Hector, who has set a new standard for Lance Armors...

Edited by Xenomata
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I'm expecting Valflame and Wargod's Tome to get identical refines. The fact that we're getting refines for two grail units at once who have weapons with identical effects as a direct reference can't be a coincidence. As much as replacing Ploy with Sabotage is likely, I'd personally prefer it if they just extended the Ploy effect's range to 3 rows and 3 columns instead of needing the enemy adjacency requirement of Sabotage.

I'm expecting Divine Tyrfing's base effect to be upgraded to work against all ranged weapon types and also AoE Specials from ranged opponents, basically Blood Tome, but only for the first hit. I'm not sure what I'd want for a refine effect. Letting the opponent attack consecutively would help him trigger Crusader's Ward, but could easily just get you straight-up killed otherwise, and the biggest problem with Crusader's Ward is the fact that running it forces you to use the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal to get a guaranteed follow-up. I think ideally, the refine should have both effects.

Effie's Lance is probably going to get a similar effect as the other armor refines we've recently gotten with either a boost to Atk and/or Def or a reduction to enemy Atk and/or Def. If they want to reference her personal skill, they could copy Virtuous Naga's effect.

While boring, I really want Obsessive Curse to just be a copy of Tharja's Hex, though I don't think they'll actually do that.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm expecting Valflame and Wargod's Tome to get identical refines. The fact that we're getting refines for two grail units at once who have weapons with identical effects as a direct reference can't be a coincidence. As much as replacing Ploy with Sabotage is likely, I'd personally prefer it if they just extended the Ploy effect's range to 3 rows and 3 columns instead of needing the enemy adjacency requirement of Sabotage.

I'm expecting Divine Tyrfing's base effect to be upgraded to work against all ranged weapon types and also AoE Specials from ranged opponents, basically Blood Tome, but only for the first hit. I'm not sure what I'd want for a refine effect. Letting the opponent attack consecutively would help him trigger Crusader's Ward, but could easily just get you straight-up killed otherwise, and the biggest problem with Crusader's Ward is the fact that running it forces you to use the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal to get a guaranteed follow-up. I think ideally, the refine should have both effects.

Effie's Lance is probably going to get a similar effect as the other armor refines we've recently gotten with either a boost to Atk and/or Def or a reduction to enemy Atk and/or Def. If they want to reference her personal skill, they could copy Virtuous Naga's effect.

While boring, I really want Obsessive Curse to just be a copy of Tharja's Hex, though I don't think they'll actually do that.

3 rows and 3 columns sounds pretty big. Maybe just 3 rows, like Yune's effect?

Having Divine Tyrfing be designed to work with Crusader's Ward would make sense, but I wonder how well Seliph will use it in that case.

I feel like Effie's refine will play up her player phase focus, with something meant to either compliment or replace Bold Fighter. Could have a Slaying effect alongside a damage boost, to help trigger Galeforce in two hits.

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3 minutes ago, Othin said:

3 rows and 3 columns sounds pretty big. Maybe just 3 rows, like Yune's effect?

Enemies within 4 squares could be an alternative.

One other thing about Sabotage is that Arvis already has an exclusive B skill which prevents him from stacking a second Sabotage skill in the same way that his default kit has a second Ploy skill in the C slot.

The issue with a 3-column effect range is the fact that it becomes useless on a lot of horizontal maps. There are only a handful of horizontal maps that I can use the Yune + Thrasir combo on in Arena Assault due to Chaos Named only hitting 3 columns.

 

14 minutes ago, Othin said:

Having Divine Tyrfing be designed to work with Crusader's Ward would make sense, but I wonder how well Seliph will use it in that case.

Seliph already has his own busted version of Tyrfing, so I don't think it will matter too much. If they leave that as part of the refine effect instead of the base effect, he can just pick a stat refine.

 

16 minutes ago, Othin said:

I feel like Effie's refine will play up her player phase focus, with something meant to either compliment or replace Bold Fighter. Could have a Slaying effect alongside a damage boost, to help trigger Galeforce in two hits.

Completely pulling this out of my ass, but I think it would be hilarious for her to just get Bold Fighter and Null Follow-Up on her weapon just so she can keep her default Wary Fighter for whatever reason.

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5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Enemies within 4 squares could be an alternative.

One other thing about Sabotage is that Arvis already has an exclusive B skill which prevents him from stacking a second Sabotage skill in the same way that his default kit has a second Ploy skill in the C slot.

The issue with a 3-column effect range is the fact that it becomes useless on a lot of horizontal maps. There are only a handful of horizontal maps that I can use the Yune + Thrasir combo on in Arena Assault due to Chaos Named only hitting 3 columns.

The 3 columns and rows range would be pretty good, since would make them very good support units. Both Arvis and Saias have Atk/Res Ploy 2 (Atk/Res-4 on foes). Maybe increase it to -5 or even -6 if they keep the same area of effect, or keep the -4 but increase the range.

Would be interesting if Arvis get an effect that uses his Recovery Ring for something... like an effect/boost if he is at full HP or something, but I don't know what they can do. Honestly, I also expect the same refinement effect for both.

Off-topic: Since I try to use units with the blessing that match the season in AA, I wouldn't use Yune + Thrasir since their blessings will never be in the same season. But I use Thrasir + Duma combo. Since there are more units with "nullifies penalties" effects now, Thrasir's Killing Intent is not guaranteed to work on everyone... but it will work on these type of units if they are not at full HP, and that's Duma's job with his Upheaval skill.

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Completely pulling this out of my ass, but I think it would be hilarious for her to just get Bold Fighter and Null Follow-Up on her weapon just so she can keep her default Wary Fighter for whatever reason.

That would be interesting.

Having a Silver Lance in her base kit makes me have no idea to what expect for Effie. Because of her high Atk, Brave Lance builds were quite common on her. A prf Brave Lance would be possible, I guess.

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4 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Having a Silver Lance in her base kit makes me have no idea to what expect for Effie. Because of her high Atk, Brave Lance builds were quite common on her. A prf Brave Lance would be possible, I guess.

I'm not sure a Brave Lance is possible myself... they've only given Brave weapons to two armor units, and both are mostly throwaway weapons in the end anyway.
...then again, they've been loading armors up with enemy-phase kits for months now, so... maybe we'll see the first true Brave weapon that only activates on enemy phase?

Edited by Xenomata
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2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I'm not sure a Brave Lance is possible myself... they've only given Brave weapons to two armor units, and both are mostly throwaway weapons in the end anyway.
...then again, they've been loading armors up with enemy-phase kits for months now, so... maybe we'll see the first true Brave weapon that only activates on enemy phase?

Why wouldn't it be possible? They've only done a handful of brave prf refines so far - one included Cherche, who didn't originally have a brave weapon, while most units that originally had brave weapons have non-brave refines. (Hinoka, Camilla, Ogma, Barst, Cain, Abel, etc.)

Effie is more often used for player phase than most other armors who've gotten refines, due to her higher Atk. So I don't see any reason to expect she'd have to be enemy phase rather than player phase.

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