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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Distant Foil does seem like a good choice on him, though Crusader's Ward does help protect against bows that Distant Foil would still be interrupting. So combined that with the fact that I gave Sigurd Distant Counter like three years ago and I really don't want it to be a waste, I think it would have been great if his refine had a "If foe's range = 2/If foe uses magic, foe can make a follow up attack before unit can counter attack."

I was really hoping that he would get Forced Desperation like B!Ike did with his Urvan refine, but I think Divine Tyrfing's refine is still really good. Also, my reasoning for putting Distant Foil on him was that he would be getting +15 Atk/Def on enemy phase, so he could reasonably tank bows if he needs to and retaliate pretty hard. My Sigurd is also +Spd, so he could probably avoid doubles decently enough anyway (+Spd also pairs well with Distant Counter for the reason I just mentioned, although it wouldn't be making good use of Crusader's Ward against mages that can still easily double him).

It seems to me that refined Divine Tyrfing had Seliph in mind more than Sigurd, I think.

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1 hour ago, indigoasis said:

I was really hoping that he would get Forced Desperation like B!Ike did with his Urvan refine, but I think Divine Tyrfing's refine is still really good. Also, my reasoning for putting Distant Foil on him was that he would be getting +15 Atk/Def on enemy phase, so he could reasonably tank bows if he needs to and retaliate pretty hard. My Sigurd is also +Spd, so he could probably avoid doubles decently enough anyway (+Spd also pairs well with Distant Counter for the reason I just mentioned, although it wouldn't be making good use of Crusader's Ward against mages that can still easily double him).

It seems to me that refined Divine Tyrfing had Seliph in mind more than Sigurd, I think.

My +10 Sigurd has Distant Foil and I am happy with it. Shuts down all ranged threats. You cant counter Magic true, but thats not what I am aiming for with Sigurd.

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Forcing Desperation on enemies would only be useful when running Crusader's Ward, and while building around Crusader's Ward is cool thematically, that doesn't change the fact that the skill is situational. You're either running Crusader's Ward and a purely close-range set, Crusader's Ward and Distant Foil, or no Crusader's Ward and Distant Counter.

Building around Crusader's Ward is not situational. Forced Desperation could have turned Sigurd into a viable dedicated ranged tank while keeping Crusader's Ward. Sigurd is still a viable ranged tank, but his exclusive B skill is still shit as it is dead skill without forced Desperation.

With the current Refinement, Sigurd is basically just another Hríd, PP!Veronica, LL!Ephraim, etc. If you keep Crusader's Ward and not run Distant Counter, his only gimmick as a dual phase unit is that he is less likely to die to ranged units. In my opinion, being punching bag is a horrible tactic and it should only be used as a last resort for specific maps. 99% of the time, you want your units to kill things as much as possible, not lay there and get walked all over. For general use, players should replace Crusader's Ward with Lull Atk/Def since that skill actually helps him on both player phase and enemy phase against melee enemies, and there is honestly no point in using any of the damage reduction effects if the only way to make the best use of it is to not fight back.

Edited by XRay
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I was going to build up Effie depending on this refine. IS just condemned her to remain sitting in my barracks. To me, none of them seem like anything to go gaga over. Rhajat's is close, but i have a single copy of her and only use her in limited situations that a Micaiah can't cover. Oh well, hopefully next month's batch of refines is better.

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It just occurred to me since refined Valflame and refined Wargod's Tome no longer have a resistance check for their upgraded base effect that does it make the effect better or at least more reliable than Yune's Chaos Named? The range is already better by working horizontally which kind of does not matter as much in Aether Raids since Yune is a dark mythic, but the main thing is that Arvis and Saias can guarantee Atk/Res-5, two stats, primarily the resistance debuff, that Yune can take advantage of greatly, so long as foes are within the range of their tomes whereas Yune needs to pass a resistance check and Chaos Named may not inflict -5 on two stats if only one stat on the foe is the highest and not two or more stats. Arvis and Saias have the issue of not completely benefiting all allies since the upgraded base effect does not debuff speed which most units can take advantage of or defense which would benefit their physical damage allies. Part of this is mitigated by their default Ploys, Def Ploy for Arvis and Res Ploy for Saias, but regular Ploys, well, Ploys 3, only have the regular 1 column range in addition to needing to pass a resistance check. Perhaps in the future a Ploy 4 would have increased range, but I doubt it would be beyond 3 columns centered on the unit.

For the purposes of Aether Raids, Chaos Named is works, but outside of Aether Raids, the fact she has to deal with another condition for Chaos Named, and that it may or may not inflict -5 on multiple stats does make it feel like Chaos Named is not as good or at least not as reliable than refined Valflame and refined Wargod's Tome.

It's 400 dew, but refined Vaflame and refined Wargod's Tome look so useful. They are shutdown by penalty neutralization effects and debuffing attack means Atk/Def Unity will work and Chaos Ragnell for that matter which reverses all stat penalties, but even then because Chaos Ragnell and Unity do not neutralize penalties, the Blizzard effect still works. Point is that against units who do not have those things, the effect just working because foes are within its range seems too good to pass up.

Hlidskjalf's unique refinement isn't groundbreaking or anything and I haven't found myself using CYL Veronica much, but it's useful and depending on how things go with the upcoming limited hero battles, I may want unique refined Garm for CYL Ephraim. Arvis, CYL Ephraim, Saias, and CYL Veronica would be 800 dew and I'm at a feather count where I don't really want to randomly 5* healers to refine their staves.

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While it may make them better, I actually think it's a bit disappointing they removed the resistance check. We just got a shiny new Phantom Res seal a while back and they would have been perfect candidates to use it on. Not that I would have used it since I like hitting all four stats with ploys, but I still think stuff like Phantom Res should be somewhat more worth having.

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58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

While it may make them better, I actually think it's a bit disappointing they removed the resistance check. We just got a shiny new Phantom Res seal a while back and they would have been perfect candidates to use it on. Not that I would have used it since I like hitting all four stats with ploys, but I still think stuff like Phantom Res should be somewhat more worth having.

It is still worth having for more potent stuff that is in the game. I think its a good thing they removed the condition on both of them. It allows them to age somewhat better as a support unit, because at this point in the game you would have needed to invest alot  to meet some RES checks.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And that is not a problem.

It is not a problem for Sigurd if you want to use him that way, but most people wanted to use him as a ranged tank with Crusader's Ward. Crusader's Ward was a dead skill and it is still a dead skill, that is the issue. To make full use of Crusader's Ward, Sigurd cannot fight back, and that is just not a viable tactic most of the time.

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Huh, Saias and Arvis got identical weapons after all, huh? In hindsight this was another M/F!Robin situation, wasn't it?

As for Divine Tyrfing, who uses it better, Seliph or Sigurd? Seliph has inbuilt Miracle and Atk/Def Bond in his own weapon, but I'm curious if this is another Eliwood/ Blazing Durandal situation where the evolved option is infinitely better.

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2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Huh, Saias and Arvis got identical weapons after all, huh? In hindsight this was another M/F!Robin situation, wasn't it?

As for Divine Tyrfing, who uses it better, Seliph or Sigurd? Seliph has inbuilt Miracle and Atk/Def Bond in his own weapon, but I'm curious if this is another Eliwood/ Blazing Durandal situation where the evolved option is infinitely better.

It's an enviable situation in which Seliph has two viable weapons to work with for different builds. 

 

Personally, I like Divine Tyrfing better than Tyrfing, because that dual phase QR5 is something to envy, and he gets a lot of mixed bulk from it. 

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22 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for Divine Tyrfing, who uses it better, Seliph or Sigurd? Seliph has inbuilt Miracle and Atk/Def Bond in his own weapon, but I'm curious if this is another Eliwood/ Blazing Durandal situation where the evolved option is infinitely better.

Between the two, Sigurd probably has more potential as a pure Def tank, as his Def is 4 points higher than Seliphs, but ultimately the two important stats in builds using the refine, Atk and Def, are so similar between the two, and neither are able to learn skills the other can't that are necessary to make the builds work, that is Distant Counter or Distant Foil, Lull A/D, maybe a Joint Drive. I think it just comes down to the preferences of Infantry and Cavalry, especially if you factor in effective damage and movement options.

But that's assuming they're on equal merge levels, because a +10 Seliph probably looks more appealing than a low-merge Sigurd regardless. Either way, Seliph still has the advantage of having two potent refine options unlike Eliwood, whose options are to use the Blazing Durandal or to go home and be a family man.

Edited by Xenomata
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  • 4 weeks later...

Yeah i was hoping for a Micaiah refine!

Expand on the Dmg reduction and add mystic boost or Null C as part of the refine please. 

 

Elise is also great news. I kept my Priscilla at +9 in case I need to change her IV for when she gets a refine.

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Hm...

Elise's Staff was just an ordinary healing staff in Fates. I don't think there was anything particularly fantastic about it either, so they're pretty much gonna make something entirely new for her... course, that probably just means she'll get Gravity with built in Wrathful or Dazzling, if even that. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the first normal new staff refine...

Otherwise... meh. Fae getting a refine'll be good, Micaiah should be getting something good, Valter I can only imagine will get something that'll work with the post-battle damage he already has. Hopefully it's good, cause Special cooldown reduction and Atk/Spd 2 is NOT that amazing these days...

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Really hopping Fae gets a Goad Dragons effect. We haven't got a dragon weapon that buffs other dragons like Gunther or Camilla and Fae's personality really suits a support skill with how uplifting she is (and her default Light Breath is a support skill already, sort of, just a pretty useless one). And let's face it, it's not like her stat line is ever going to make her a combat unit.

I'm still pretty fond of using base Micaiah for no reason I can figure out, so I'm happy to see her get one. Not sure what I want it to be though. It already does what Thani does in Radiant Dawn and it's not like Micaiah has any other weapon really associated with her except maybe Purge. Adding Renewal (or Arvis's Recover Ring) to help make Sacrifice more useable could be nice, but that wouldn't really be enough  alone. Maybe give it the Witchy Wand effect to reference Corona.

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While I am a little disappointed that Nowi got skipped again because of Micaiah... I am happy with Elise getting it. I am sure @Landmaster will be very excited for it.

But the thing is... how they will handle these staves?

Back in September we got Veronica as the first staff unit to get a refinement, but her staff already had Wrathful built-in. Elise will receive a prf now.

Will it have Wrathful or Dazzling built-in? Or that will be the refinement options?

For example: I have Elise with Dazzling refinement Gravity+, and Wrathful Staff B Skill. What if her new Elise's Staff has Wrathful Staff in the main effect? Her B skill will have  no use for her anymore if i want to use her new staff.

I am curious to see what will happen.

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

While I am a little disappointed that Nowi got skipped again because of Micaiah... I am happy with Elise getting it. I am sure @Landmaster will be very excited for it.

But the thing is... how they will handle these staves?

Back in September we got Veronica as the first staff unit to get a refinement, but her staff already had Wrathful built-in. Elise will receive a prf now.

Will it have Wrathful or Dazzling built-in? Or that will be the refinement options?

For example: I have Elise with Dazzling refinement Gravity+, and Wrathful Staff B Skill. What if her new Elise's Staff has Wrathful Staff in the main effect? Her B skill will have  no use for her anymore if i want to use her new staff.

I am curious to see what will happen.

I expect a new prf staff with the base effect of the staff the unit came with and then a new effect to add to the base weapon so it becomes a unique weapon. The refine will probably stay the same as it is now, being able to choose which one you need.

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39 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

I expect a new prf staff with the base effect of the staff the unit came with and then a new effect to add to the base weapon so it becomes a unique weapon. The refine will probably stay the same as it is now, being able to choose which one you need.

I could see that. For these units that dont have Prf staves yet, they get the normal choice of Dazzling or Wrathful, while units that have Prf staves that already have one of these effects, like Loki, get an unique effect.

I want Sakura and Lucius to get their Prf staves soon. Sakura has Fear+, which is better Atk Smoke. Maybe changing it to Atk/Spd Smoke?

Or maybe they will do another 5* exclusive healer next... In this case, Mist.

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Wouldn't be at all surprised if they only do refines for the 5* exclusive healers and skip the pileup of low rarity ones.

Ninian and Rein are the only early units I care about refines for at this point.

Semi-excited for Micaiah's refine, I gave her CC ages ago for Aether Raids and then she fell off in usage since +1 was too weak to keep up.

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2 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I could see that. For these units that dont have Prf staves yet, they get the normal choice of Dazzling or Wrathful, while units that have Prf staves that already have one of these effects, like Loki, get an unique effect.

I want Sakura and Lucius to get their Prf staves soon. Sakura has Fear+, which is better Atk Smoke. Maybe changing it to Atk/Spd Smoke?

Or maybe they will do another 5* exclusive healer next... In this case, Mist.

Yeah, I'm definitely hoping they go that route with the refines. We'll have to see.

The fact that they started with the original 5* exclusive healer makes me think Mist and Genny will be next, since they're the others from Book 1. Mist could finally let me justify pulling for her!

3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I hope Micaiah getting one now means Sothe gets one soon.

Seems unlikely. He's a Book 2 demote, and they haven't even started doing those yet. We got F Kana a while ago, but despite M Kana having the same weapon, they seem to be having him wait for the grail units to catch up to spring 2018, which is a ways off. Similarly, L'Arachel was released alongside mage Eirika with a similar weapon but seems to be holding off on her refine until Book 2 demotes show up.

Edited by Othin
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Bout time to update the list, Othin.

On 9/27/2020 at 4:39 AM, Othin said:

Updating my list of Book 1 non-staff/seasonal/DC units awaiting refines:

  • Red:
    • No prf: Olivia (dancer), Arden (grail)
    • Has prf: Ayra, Joshua (grail)
  • Blue:
    • No prf: Nowi, Azura (dancer), Ninian (dancer)
    • Has prf: Olwen/Reinhardt, Valter (grail)
  • Green:
    • No prf: Fae
    • Has prf: Hector

Nowi, Fae, Arden, and the dancers are now the only ones who don't have any sort of prf. Nowi, Fae, Olwen/Reinhardt, Hector, and the dancers are the only ones left from the first 6 months.

On 9/11/2020 at 6:18 AM, Xenomata said:

The following units from the first half of book 2 (From Children of Fate to Wings of Fate) do not yet have refines, are perfectly available for refines due to not being a dancer/staff/DC weapon, and are currently 5* locked:

  • Rhajat
  • Micaiah
  • Chrom (TBK)
  • Reinhardt (WoT)
  • Hinoka (WoF)

And aside from CYL2 all units from all New Hero banners after WoF do not have refines.
As for demotes, we have Soleil, Sothe, L'arachel, Male Morgan, and Shigure, but they might need to wait a little longer since there are still Book 1 units from the 4* and below pool waiting for their refines.

Now that we know Staves are on the table... I dunno, we'll just have to wait and see. If they limit it to just 5* locked staves though, that means Mist and Genny are also up for refines from Book 1. If they wanna stretch it to staves who used to be available at 5*, that'd add in Sakura (who honestly I think will eventually get a refine anyway), Lachesis, Lucius, and Priscilla. If they're extending a refine to ALL staves though... god, so many units I haven't thought about in years...

Edited by Xenomata
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4 hours ago, Jotari said:

And let's face it, it's not like her stat line is ever going to make her a combat unit.

Fae got balanced bulk, and her stat line is not that different from Nowi and Y!Tiki, and both of them are fine as combat units.

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