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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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36 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am kinda surprised Azura didnt get a refine yet or Ninian. It seems like IS is at loss on refining Gen one dancers. Either because the new generation dancers will outshine them anyway, or they dont know how to make them on par.

I really really hope the next batch has a 3-4 star healer in it Azama and Wry are in desperate need of a refine (basicly all 3-4 infantry healers of Gen1)

Yeah, I would totally love for gen 1 dancers to get a refine. It's not like either Azura or Ninian have amazing fodder anyway and they're definitely outclassed by other dancers now. I am not sure why IS seems to be afraid of refining dancers, although a part of me thinks they may be under the misguided belief that if they refine dancers they'll become "too" good. Like DC weapons or something.

As long as the next batch of refines gives us at least one 3-4 healer, I think we could breathe easy and be assured that they'll get their refines too eventually.

Edited by Sunwoo
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40 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Yeah, I would totally love for gen 1 dancers to get a refine. It's not like either Azura or Ninian have amazing fodder anyway and they're definitely outclassed by other dancers now. I am not sure why IS seems to be afraid of refining dancers, although a part of me thinks they may be under the misguided belief that if they refine dancers they'll become "too" good. Like DC weapons or something.

As long as the next batch of refines gives us at least one 3-4 healer, I think we could breathe easy and be assured that they'll get their refines too eventually.

I'm guessing they're just slow-rolling it so people will be more excited when it finally happens. They seem to do that a lot, to space things out and avoid burning through everything too fast.

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10 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Lewyn is one of my favorite characters in the franchise and I'm really happy he's getting a refine.

But I'm still bitter that they cut off the weekly revival banners just short of his banner. Feels bad, man.

I feel he will be in the weekly banners soon, alongside the rest of Boom 2 units.

I am hoping for it as well, but to get the missing Laevatein copies I need.

...

Anyway, about the refinements... I hope Kinshinoka's is good. Would be nice if they at least improve her Drive Atk to Joint Drive Atk.

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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If/when they do start giving out dancer and 3/4-star healer refines, the only ones I'll really be waiting for from Book 1 are Ninian and Priscilla. Lucius and Maria are two favorite characters, but I don't have either of them built up, and likely won't unless their potential refines are SUPER good.

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5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Anyway, about the refinements... I hope Kinshinoka's is good. Would be nice if they at least improve her Drive Atk to Joint Drive Atk.

You know, they could also give her the same effect as Jorge and Plumeria's bows, with the +4 Atk to allies and -4 Atk to enemies near the holder. It wouldn't improve her own Atk any, but it would be a slight bulk increase. Slight overlap with a recently released unit too, but completely different statlines so nobody is gonna notice anyway.

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On 1/4/2021 at 12:46 AM, Xenomata said:

You know, they could also give her the same effect as Jorge and Plumeria's bows, with the +4 Atk to allies and -4 Atk to enemies near the holder. It wouldn't improve her own Atk any, but it would be a slight bulk increase. Slight overlap with a recently released unit too, but completely different statlines so nobody is gonna notice anyway.

Jorge's Daniel-Made Bow is Atk+5 to allies and Atk-5 to enemies within 2 spaces of him while New Year's Plumeria's First-Dream Bow is Atk+4 to allies and Atk-4 to enemies within 3 spaces of her. Regardless, it would be stronger than only Drive Atk 2 on Kinshinoka's Warrior Princess. Alternatively, they could do something where Warrior Princess becomes more like Spear of Assal where it has a dual Drive and introduces another effect to buff her own stats in combat. The problem is if it's exactly like Spear of Assal, then she would have to deal with her allies' positioning to get stats for herself whereas Jorge and NY Plumeria don't other than being in combat themselves. With flier positioning skills to which she has Flier Formation and Flier Guidance by default, it might be okay and if it's exactly like Spear of Assal, then she can neutralize debuffs on her attack and speed.

It's late to speculate, but it would be funny if Arden's Blade has a reverse speed check damage reduction effect i.e. "If unit's Spd < foe's Spd, reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by percentage = difference between stats × 4 (max 40%)." It would be really difficult to be slower than him; a unit would need to have 18 base neutral speed and be -Spd, have 20 base speed with a Brave weapon, have less merges than him so that their speed somehow falls behind him, or be Halloween Dheginsea. This does not factor in if Arden's Blade is a prf Brave Sword.

Or they could do something weird, probably annoying, but not as difficult to manage like Nemesis's Dark Creator Sword: "During combat, grants unit's Atk/Def/Res+X by number of allies with Spd ≥ unit's Spd+5 (X = 2 × number of allies + 1; max 7)." I added in resistance because the man's strong and tough and if he's tough, then he can take a meteor to the face and laugh it off.

Edited by Kaden
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Damn talk about strong and tough. I can't believe they gave a free unit that type of effect. Expect lots of Special Fighter and Bignis. And I can't wait for Hinoka to be even more annoying in HoF (I think foes have refines sometimes).

Edited by LoneStar
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1 minute ago, LoneStar said:

Damn talk about strong and tough. I can't believe they gave a free unit that type of effect. And I can't wait for Hinoka to be even more annoying in HoF (I think foes have refines sometimes).

Foes in Hall of Forms and Forging Bonds have refined weapons. We have to get lucky that we encounter a Hinoka with a stat refinement instead.

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I guess Forseti technically works with Wings of Mercy now, but that might not be easy manage to get between 25% and 50% HP. You cannot use Fury or else you lose Desperation once below 25%.

Warrior Princess is pretty weak in my opinion, although I guess that also makes her easier to face on defense.

Oof! Genny got a combat performance Refinement but with Dazzling Staff as part of it. That means she cannot run Vantage to take advantage of her Refinement.

Arden's Blade is nice! He still has shit Res though, but he got a Meisterschwert! I think he will be pretty fun with dual phase Galeforce builds if you can also afford to give him Armored Stride. He can also land guaranteed Aethers on enemy phase if he gets doubled, or drop an Ignis on player phase.

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DAAAAAAYUUUUUUUM they went harder on this batch than usual. I hope this means refinement quality is getting higher and higher as we enter... what year is this, year 5? Year 4?

~I am of the opinion that Lewyn was one of the worst of the "healthy desperation" effect, but now he's getting extra stats all around plus penalty nullification. Will he be the best, I dunno, but it's still a good refine for him.

~The direction they went with Warrior Princess's base effect is appreciated. I'm not sure I would appreciate the same effect as the Daniel-Made Bow on Hinoka, who is not bulky whatsoever. Also an Atk/Spd/Def Rein++. I'm not sure if this refine will make her at all capable of dealing with Armors... maybe if she had Atk/Spd Unity? But her overall power is definitely up, and hey she's still supporting her allies.

~Springtime Staff looks alright overall. Genny is unfortunately a unit who I never really "built" because... well... units needed Wrathful Staff... but this looks like an overall good refine. Only thing is that this reminds me there is no such thing as Breath of Life 4, and I really think they should come out with one already.

~Ah good, they gave him an effect that synergizes with Follow-up Ring. Or Vengeful Fighter, thinking about it... anyway, a good weapon. Maybe the best of the bunch even, depends on how he actually uses it I guess.
...also we now know that dual-phase Brave weapons are not at all off the table anymore if they're giving one to Arden, who is a Grail unit. Man, Effie got screwed bad...

Edited by Xenomata
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16 minutes ago, XRay said:

Warrior Princess is pretty weak in my opinion, although I guess that also makes her easier to face on defense.

Are we looking at the same refine? I know it isn't the best refine, but she still has a 3-tile debuff radius on her refine effect, on top of Atk/Spd +4 if she's near an ally, which for a ranged flier is not that hard to achieve. How would that make her easier on defense?

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20 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

~I am of the opinion that Lewyn was one of the worst of the "healthy desperation" effect, but now he's getting extra stats all around plus penalty nullification. Will he be the best, I dunno, but it's still a good refine for him.

It is alright. Penalties are not a big deal when you have multiple Dancers/Singers, but it is still nice to have nonetheless.

The biggest issue was not working with Wings of Mercy. While it technically does work with Wings of Mercy now, I am still going to give it a hard pass for stuff like Aether Raids and Arena Assault. For stuff like Abyssal, it is not a big deal to have to work with a narrow HP range since you can fish around for the proper damage.

20 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

~Ah good, they gave him an effect that synergizes with Follow-up Ring. Or Vengeful Fighter, thinking about it... anyway, a good weapon.
...also we now know that dual-phase Brave weapons are not at all off the table anymore if they're giving one to Arden, who is a Grail unit. Man, Effie got screwed bad...

Effie is actually pretty decent, IF she faces only one round per phase, which is doable in Arena Assault, although not consistently if you are bringing an old school Ward Armor team like I am as everyone is slow as hell movement wise. She could not really survive fully buffed Ninos before, but she could technically do that now as long as Nino is the first enemy she faces.

But yeah, the "first combat per phase" condition is still pretty stupid in my opinion. I wish it was based on an HP requirement instead as that is more manageable.

2 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Are we looking at the same refine? I know it isn't the best refine, but she still has a 3-tile debuff radius on her refine effect, on top of Atk/Spd +4 if she's near an ally, which for a ranged flier is not that hard to achieve. How would that make her easier on defense?

The ideas I proposed was some kind of Firesweep, Desperation, or an effect that allows her to one shot armors. The Refine she got was pretty tame compared to the effects I proposed. WOF!Hinoka is still pretty easy to kill. She would still be more annoying with her Refine, but she is not broken or frustrating to the point like SK!Alm or Blazing mages.

Edited by XRay
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1 hour ago, XRay said:

The ideas I proposed was some kind of Firesweep, Desperation, or an effect that allows her to one shot armors. The Refine she got was pretty tame compared to the effects I proposed. WOF!Hinoka is still pretty easy to kill. She would still be more annoying with her Refine, but she is not broken or frustrating to the point like SK!Alm or Blazing mages.

Seems like they were more interested in building on support capabilities.

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Hinoka's refine seems like the best. Not only does she herself get big stat buffs, but she can pass it on to her allies too. The 3 space radius of the debuffs make it easier to work with than Gordin or Tharja's weapons.

Arden's refine is a disappointment. The base weapon is fantastic, but the refine effect seems iffy to me since it doesn't buff his main problem stat (his Res). If it was Atk -6 / Def -4 on the foe, than it would have been so much better imo.

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24 minutes ago, Othin said:

Seems like they were more interested in building on support capabilities.

It is not terrible in that regard, but it still feels a bit weak though as a supporter compared to M!Corrin, BH!Lucina, and Flayn.

Supporting a super tank, against melee enemies, the supertank gets like Atk+4 (+8 if the super tank hits physical), Spd+8, and Def/Res+4, which is pretty good. However, it is only Atk/Spd+4 against ranged enemies unless you are willing to stick WOF!Hinoka right behind the super tank, which is pretty risky.

I think I still prefer the other three more due to better consistency.

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Hmm, I think Forseti could be significantly better than it is. A wider HP threshold is obviously appreciated, and I do like that they kept some of it instead of just removing the HP threshold entirely, but aside from that all we're getting is a very slight attack boost and a lull effect. What was I expecting when he can already double and use desperation? Well I expect he'll still be struggling to one round things even with these boosts unless you build him up with Death Blow 4 and stuff (less need for Swift Sparrow on his A slot now though, I guess). What I'd really like is if it had special boosting properties to syngergize with Special Spiral so I could utilize even higher specials with him reliably.

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Hinoka is Flier Emblem's wet dream. She basically now gets Joint Goad Fliers (plus all other movement types, but you don't have any of those on Flier Emblem) and a 3-range Rein Atk/Spd/Def 3. I'm going to have fun running her with the Whitewings and their Flier Emblem shenanigans.

While I probably would have preferred Null Follow-Up so that she can run Windsweep like Byleth can, I'll take this. Or Joint Drive Null Follow-Up.

 

Arden finally has a reason to run Follow-Up Ring again. And a 14-Mt Meisterschwert is pretty nice. His Res is still shit, but as long as he can tank a single hit from Legendary Celica, I think it'll still be manageable. I really need some more enemy-phase counters to all of those obnoxious hyper offense units in Arena Assault.

Wait... how the hell does my Arden have exactly 0 SP?

I wish we could eventually get an armor with Null C-Disrupt on their weapon, though.

 

Holsety is nice. It's very Holsety.

Genny hits harder and now passively heals herself allies when attacking. That's nice. And even just using the base weapon is pretty damned good.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

but aside from that all we're getting is a very slight attack boost and a lull effect.

The weapon's original effect was only the flat Spd boost and reverse Desperation. He's getting an additional +8 Atk and +8 Spd now.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The weapon's original effect was only the flat Spd boost and reverse Desperation. He's getting an additional +8 Atk and +8 Spd now.

Oh I didn't realize the difference was as big as that. Should help him kill a lot more, though I don't think he'll be holding much of a candle to his home game OPness. A desperation build on other units will probably still be more useful thanks to Brazens and Wings of Mercy. Though he has the advantage of no set up required.

Edited by Jotari
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33 minutes ago, Flying Shogi said:

How likely are we to get a weapon refine for Kaze this year?

It's difficult to say, since we haven't even started getting Book 2 demotes yet. Once we do, he should be around 7th on the list, since he's preceded by Soleil, Sothe, L'Arachel, Morgan M, Nanna, and Shigure. Although we don't know yet if Nanna being a healer or some of those units having prfs will be relevant.

Non-seasonal/legendary units released on Kaze's banner or earlier who do not yet have a refine:

  1. Azura
  2. Maria
  3. Xander
  4. Clarine
  5. Lissa
  6. Olivia
  7. Wrys
  8. Ryoma
  9. Sakura
  10. Azama
  11. Serra
  12. Hector
  13. Camus
  14. Reinhardt
  15. Olwen
  16. Lachesis
  17. Lucius
  18. Priscilla
  19. Ninian
  20. Ike
  21. Black Knight
  22. Ayra
  23. Dorcas
  24. Joshua
  25. Soleil
  26. Sothe
  27. Zelgius
  28. Lyon
  29. Marisa
  30. L'Arachel
  31. Takumi (Fallen)
  32. Robin (M) (Fallen)
  33. Hardin (Fallen)
  34. Gerome
  35. Morgan (M)
  36. Finn
  37. Nanna
  38. Reinhardt (2018)
  39. Kaze
  40. Shigure
  41. Kana (M)
Edited by Othin
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