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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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Holy cow! I'm so happy for Sothe, especially since he's one of my few +10 units and has still been a regular part of my Aether Raids offense with Disarm Trap. I've been using Starfish+ but now I'll definitely have to go back to Peshkatz. 

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  • Karla was improved most definitely, but she kinda has a mini-Luin thing going on. Yet another unit can be thrown onto the "maybe give them Windsweep" pile... nothing spectacular, but it's an improvement over the original Vassal's Blade.
  • I will admit to being fully biased toward Flora, and I think she got a pretty good refine. I know it's supposed to synergize with her base skill kit, but I still think she's better off going full player-phase.
  • Improved Sharena bunny, but I don't think it's enough to really make Muninn's Egg worth using on anything except a defensive team that would appreciate the healing and Atk debuffing.
  • ...eh. Takumi got kind of a weak refine IMO.
  • Interesting... Sothe can actually run a Blazing Wind build with Peshkats.
    It's certainly a good refine, but I think it's more interesting that he can run a build normally only possible with a completely different weapon. And finally, a unit who can provide unlimited Special Charge to his allies! I feel like this was a long time coming.

The only refine I truly cared about was Floras, and she got a pretty good one. But Sothe definitely has a great refine to work with. Karla is improved overall, and the other two... I don't think they're better overall.

The thing about Sharena is that all of her effects don't actually do anything together, and together they just make one good unit in a pool filled with amazing units. And as for Takumi, he's doing the same thing he always did (twice as often) while having a weapon that actually does something in battle, but I don't feel like that's enough to put him ahead of other Grail units.

Edited by Xenomata
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Muninn's Egg seems okay. Not horrible, but not great either. I guess you just slap Chill Spd and Chill Def on Sharena: Spring Princess and call it a day. She would just be a Chill bot and minor healer with Ardent Sacrifice, and you can run Fort. Def/Res and whatever Ploy you fancy.

Peshkatz allows Sothe to be a Blazing nuke, which is pretty nice.

Skadi is kind of crap. I do not think he can really fit anywhere except maybe in a Counter-Vantage team in Aether Raids to help Kronya out, but even then, I am not sure he is that great and Kronya is not so hot right now either with Healing Tower (D) being so standard and bulk in general being so high. He just feels super niche, and the strict turn limit and range is not helping. Maybe Windsweep/Watersweep with Fatal Smoke, but you might as well just use Firesweep Bow.

Karla can fuck around with Edelgard: Hegemon Husk using Windsweep as long as you are careful I guess.

Flora is okay. Unconditional guaranteed follow-up would have been nicer though.

Edited by XRay
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Karla's refine is definitely good, yet still somehow not as crazy as I expected it to be. Sothe's is unexpectedly great. The others are fine.

I'm really hoping for Legendary Lyn in the near future, since it seems like that might be on the table now. Canas and Finn, too.

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I'm not sure if I'll actually make much use of it, but I'm happy Peshkatz now gives Sothe a unique role.

Skadi...kind of just seems like a worse Sniper's Bow. Maybe it can have AR-D applications with multiple Fallen Takumis, but this seems like the loser of the batch.

Vassal's Blade is good, but there are already multiple other swords that basically do the same thing. Good for people who like Karla, I guess.

Not too sure what to think of Hoarfrost Knife. It's better for sure, but it's just so weird. That Guard effect might be its saving grace. Too bad it didn't get adaptive damage.

Muninn's Egg isn't incredible, but it's nice. Sharena can be an omni-chiller and a potential Atk/Spd/Res +8 is pretty good.

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All of them are pretty solid.

Vassal's Blade

Base effect changed from dealing damage equal to 70% of the difference in Spd if Karla is faster to granting +5 Spd in combat and dealing damage equal to 15% of Karla's Spd with a Blow or Unity condition. Slaying effect is unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 Atk/Spd and Null Follow-Up if the opponent has 75% HP or higher.

A +10+0 Karla [+Spd] with at least 2 Spd from passive skills, support, or Dragonflowers will deal 9 extra damage. She needs 9 Spd from passive skills, support, or Dragonflowers to deal 10 extra damage.

Compare with +10+0 Flying Nino [+Spd], who deals 11 extra damage with at least 3 Spd from passive skills, support, or Dragonflowers and 12 extra damage with at least 8 Spd from passive skills, support, or Dragonflowers. Nino has the same base Atk as Karla with their refined weapons equipped (not including bonus damage), and so deals approximately 2 more bonus damage in exchange for 4 less Spd.

Null Follow-Up obviously gives her the option to run Windsweep, which is always a nice option to have, though Karla cannot reliably one-round kill Fallen Edelgard with it. +10+15 Karla [+Spd] with Ruptured Sky, Swift Sparrow 3, and Flashing Blade 3 misses the one-round kill by 4 HP against +10+5 Edelgard [+Atk] with her default set plus Mystic Boost if neither side has buffs or blessing bonuses or whatnot. Karla with Flashing Blade 4 and Atk/Spd Solo 3 instead overkills the same Edelgard by 4 HP. Spurn can be used over Windsweep for more damage, but is extremely risky because the above Edelgard deals exactly enough damage with Bonfire to kill the above Karla (49 damage to 49 HP) through Spurn's damage reduction (though blessing bonuses are typically in Karla's favor).

Muninn's Egg

Base effect changed from inflicting -5 Atk/Res at the start of each turn to the opponents with the highest Spd when Sharena's HP is 50% or higher to Chill Atk 3 + Chill Res 3. Additional base effect added giving Sharena +4 Atk/Spd/Res if the opponent has 75% HP or higher. Permanent +3 Res is unchanged.

Refine effect is 7 HP recovery to herself and allies within 2 spaces (basically Heron Wing, but also applies to herself) and +4 Atk/Spd/Res with a Blow or Unity condition.

She gets +8 Atk/Spd/Res with a pretty lenient condition, which is rather nice, boosting her stats to 37/54/44/16/41 with just her weapon equipped. The HP recovery means she can't reliably run Desperation unless you can get her HP extremely low, but she's clearly clearly geared more towards enemy phase with her high Res, default Swift Stance, and passive healing, though with how strong attackers are these days, I wouldn't really consider her reliable outside of PvE modes.

I have high hopes for Huginn's Egg, which should hopefully be similar, but geared to be slightly more offensive given Catria's movement type.

Skadi

Base effect changed from Panic and 10 damage to enemies within 3 columns at the start of turn 3 to Panic and 7 damage to enemies within 3 columns at the start of turn 2 and 3. Permanent +3 Spd is unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 Atk/Spd when Takumi's HP is 25% or higher and a 7-damage Pain+ with the same condition.

His passive damage deals more damage, but is split across 2 turns and deals less damage per turn. Less damage per turn can be a bit of a detriment in Aether Raids, but being able to activate the damage one turn earlier can be beneficial. In other game modes, this is pretty much a straight upgrade since you get 14 damage and 2 turns of Panic.

The Pain+ effect is pretty nice, but he has the same issue that daggers have, which is the inability to safely apply the effect. He could run Windsweep, but would lose the ability to double. His only real advantage over a staff unit is the passive AoE damage and Panic, which is admittedly a pretty decent effect.

The additional stats are certainly welcome due to his low base stats, but they aren't enough to make Takumi actually relevant in combat, especially considering Young Innes is also free and is significantly stronger (Takumi has 50/42 with his weapon compared to Innes's 57/44).

Good weapon, but Takumi still sucks for actual combat. If you're using him, it's for the passive AoE, and even then, it's good, but situational.

Hoarfrost Knife

Base effect no longer requires the opponent to be a melee unit. Flora now gets +20 Def against all opponents on player phase and gets a guaranteed follow-up on player phase against all opponents if they can counterattack. Slaying effect and dagger debuff are unchanged.

Refine effect is -5 Atk/Def on the opponent and Guard with a Blow or Unity condition.

The removal of the melee opponent condition is huge, as it lets her have her 38/38 defenses (effectively 43/43 with refine) and guaranteed follow-up on player phase against anything as long as they can counterattack. Not much else to say. Flora was already good before and is now even better. It's probably worth replacing her A skill with either Sturdy Impact or Mirror Impact.

Peshkatz

Base effect has been changed from -4 to opponents and +4 to allies to -5 to opponents and +5 to allies.

Refine effect gives +4 Atk/Spd and adds a Pulse effect to both the debuff to opponents and buff to allies (Pulse Smoke against opponents and -1 Special cooldown to self and allies within 2 spaces) if Sothe's HP is 25% or higher.

The Pulse effect is pretty massive, as it allows Sothe to run Special Spiral and an AoE Special on Infantry Pulse teams, which is already a common team archetype to see Sothe on. The buffs and debuffs also amount to an additional 25 damage after the first round of combat if he is danced and didn't already have buffs.

Alternatively, he can still be run with Windsweep as if he were a staff unit, considering the Pulse buff effect is currently unique to him and he has access to Fatal Smoke, which staves don't have access to and have no weapons with the same effect.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Muninn's Egg

Base effect changed from inflicting -5 Atk/Res at the start of each turn to the opponents with the highest Spd when Sharena's HP is 50% or higher to inflicting -7 Atk/Spd/Def/Res at the start of each turn to the opponents with the highest Atk or the highest Res. Additional base effect added giving Sharena +4 Atk/Spd/Res if the opponent has 75% HP or higher. Permanent +3 Res is unchanged.

Refine effect is 7 HP recovery to herself and allies within 2 spaces (basically Heron Wing, but also applies to herself) and +4 Atk/Spd/Res with a Blow or Unity condition.

Eeehhhh... Is the Japanese description different, or is the English's description wrong?

From what I see, she has Chill Atk and Chill Res in her weapon, and not a Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 to foes with highest Atk and Res.

She will inflict Atk-7 on foes with highest Atk, and inflict Res-7 on foes with highest Res.

The base effect is like Plegian Dorothea's tome, but without debuffing Spd and Def.

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Eeehhhh... Is the Japanese description different, or is the English's description wrong?

From what I see, she has Chill Atk and Chill Res in her weapon, and not a Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 to foes with highest Atk and Res.

She will inflict Atk-7 on foes with highest Atk, and inflict Res-7 on foes with highest Res.

The base effect is like Plegian Dorothea's tome, but without debuffing Spd and Def.

No, that's my mistake. The wording in Japanese wasn't something I was used to seeing while I was skimming the description text.

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3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, that's my mistake. The wording in Japanese wasn't something I was used to seeing while I was skimming the description text.

She still has a Support role at least. We could run Chill Spd on her B slot and Chill Def on seal slot, so she can debuff even more. And the healing is always nice in some annoying AA matches.

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  • 3 weeks later...

With talk of staff healers in the general thread, here is my wishlist of powerful Refined Weapons for staff units. Since I am lazy right now and I giving them all Refinements, I am going to keep the format and wording casual.

I am hoping for Blazing True Pain for Azama: area damage before and after combat, true damage during combat, and all that damage dealt equals to the foe's Atk minus the lower of the foe's Spd/Def/Res.

Wrys should get Threaten, Menace, Chill, Sabotage, all stats -7 for enemies, and have Blizzard.

Maria can Panic, Smoke all stats -7, Pass, treats enemies as Pathfinders, and any ally can move to within 2 spaces of her.

Serra can Absorb 100% of damage dealt and got Null Follow-Up, Null C-Disrupt, Null Special Disrupt, Null Bonuses and Penalties, Guard, and Dodge.

Lissa can inflict Gravity and Isolation on enemies within four spaces and can Save an ally if a physical enemy hits them, and if she saves an ally she gets Null Follow-Up, Null C-Disrupt, Null Special Disrupt, Null Bonuses and Penalties, Guard, deny follow-up attacks, and Close Foil.

Sakura can inflict Guard and Atk-7 to enemies within 4 spaces, and grants Null Bonuses and Penalties to allies within 2 spaces.

Clarine can inflict Guard and Atk/Spd-7 to enemies within 3 rows or columns of her, and grants Desperation and Impact to allies within 3 rows or columns of her.

Lachesis can Absorb 100% of damage dealt and can Save an ally if a magical enemy hits them, and if she saves an ally she gets Null Follow-Up, Null C-Disrupt, Null Special Disrupt, Null Bonuses and Penalties, Guard, deny follow-up attacks, and Close Ward.

Priscilla can inflict Panic and Spd/Def/Res-7 to enemies within 3 rows or columns of her, and grants Null Follow-Up and Null Special Disrupt to allies within 3 rows or columns of her.

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@XRay

About your unreal ideas... you went crazy with them! lol

What about a Unwrathful status effect? That causes foe's damage to be calculated as staff units (aka, 50% of unit's Atk), and if foe is a staff user and has Wrathful, the status effect nullifies the Wrathful Staff effect.

[Unwrathful]: Calculates unit's damage like staff weapons. If unit is a staff unit, nullifies all skills that "calculates damage from staff like other weapons".

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

@XRay

About your unreal ideas... you went crazy with them! lol

What about a Unwrathful status effect? That causes foe's damage to be calculated as staff units (aka, 50% of unit's Atk), and if foe is a staff user and has Wrathful, the status effect nullifies the Wrathful Staff effect.

[Unwrathful]: Calculates unit's damage like staff weapons. If unit is a staff unit, nullifies all skills that "calculates damage from staff like other weapons".

So basically, half damage unless you're a non-Wrathful staff?

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4 minutes ago, Othin said:

So basically, half damage unless you're a non-Wrathful staff?

A status effect that make the unit affected by that to do only half damage, just like if that unit was a Staff user without Wrathful Staff skill or refinement.

And if the unit affected by that is a staff unit, it will nullify the Wrathful effect that unit has, like how Mystic Boost can do that as well.

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5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

About your unreal ideas... you went crazy with them! lol

I believe every unit should get the same amount of love that units like Ike: Brave Mercenary and Edelgard: Hegemon Husk got, and if they do not get it in game, they at least deserve it in theorycrafting.

I remember Azama, and to a lesser extent Wrys, being a huge pain in the ass to level up (I think I levelled them up before Pain+ and Special Training Maps exist). I want to give them enough oomph to become nuking terrors on the battlefield.

5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

What about a Unwrathful status effect? That causes foe's damage to be calculated as staff units (aka, 50% of unit's Atk), and if foe is a staff user and has Wrathful, the status effect nullifies the Wrathful Staff effect.

[Unwrathful]: Calculates unit's damage like staff weapons. If unit is a staff unit, nullifies all skills that "calculates damage from staff like other weapons".

Sounds fun! I imagine it would be super important for super tank teams if it gets released.

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On 6/23/2021 at 5:03 PM, XRay said:

Wrys should get Threaten, Menace, Chill, Sabotage, all stats -7 for enemies, and have Blizzard.

...be honest, you just want to make this Wrys canon.

FE0_Wrys2.png

Edited by Xenomata
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33 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Image seems to be broken, but it worked when I took out everything after "png".

Is that what that one Forging Bonds was referencing? I hadn't heard of it, but apparently it's not the only warrior Wrys in Cipher: https://wiki.serenesforest.net/index.php/Wrys_(Cipher)

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:
1 hour ago, Othin said:

Image seems to be broken, but it worked when I took out everything after "png".

Is that what that one Forging Bonds was referencing? I hadn't heard of it, but apparently it's not the only warrior Wrys in Cipher: https://wiki.serenesforest.net/index.php/Wrys_(Cipher)

Yes. I want a Wrys that can terrorize enemies with debuffs and unleashing his chilling Blade tome on foes, while healing allies with a smile at the same time.

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So aside from the next batch not having Soleil as per usual IS is just mocking me by instead including her in the next Ephemera set, we're getting: 

Gerome: Masking Axe [new Prf]
Dorcas: Stout Tomahawk
Fjorm: Leiptr
Gunnthra: Blizzard
Fallen M!Robin, Legendary F!Robin: Expiration
Spring Catria: Huginn's Egg

Legendary F!Robin is also getting the Remix treatment this month on top of this refine.

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Terrible batch, as usual.  Shameless lack of healer refines aside, lately I don't even care about the normal units they're refining.  Interested to see if they'll push back Finn another month for August's refines to give them to CYL units that don't need it.

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8 minutes ago, Sayyyaka said:

Interested to see if they'll push back Finn another month for August's refines to give them to CYL units that don't need it.

The CYL refines were in September rather than August the past two years, so Finn should be good to go next month.

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I hope Leiptr at least gets a guaranteed follow-up so I can stop having to give her Quick Riposte to be useful. I'm guessing she'll also get +4 to all stats with a Unity condition. A Breath effect would be nice, too, so she can actually activate Ice Mirror on the opponent's follow-up. I wouldn't say no to a Meister or enemy-phase Brave, though.

Or, you know, the ability to shoot giant pillars of ice at the opponent like in the movie.

Dorcas has Quick Riposte as a default skill, so it's unlikely he'll get a guaranteed follow-up. Lull and/or Guard would be ideal for him. And he'll probably get +4 to all stats or +5 to just Atk and Def.

Blizzard doesn't really need anything to be good because it already is due to her insane debuffing ability. Lull would be nice, though. Litrblade would be funny. However, I'm tempted to say she'll probably get Trace or Canto since her B slot is taken by her exclusive skill.

Expiration really just wants stats and a Dull effect. Dragonskin II is probably going to add Guard as a counterpart to Dragonscale's Breath effect, so it'll line up pretty nicely if that happens. If they want to get fancy, they could also add something like a Moonbow effect to mirror Moonless Breath's Noontime effect.

EDIT: Huh. The remix effects are already announced... and Dragonskin II got Dull. Which means I'm predicting Expiration gets Guard instead.

Huginn's Egg is probably going to get something similar to Muninn's Egg, but with Chill Spd instead of Chill Atk since Catria is more player phase compared to Sharena's enemy-phase default skills. Yes, I know Chill Res will overlap with her default Chill Res. No, I don't care because she'd clearly prefer to run Desperation instead. Unless, of course, she gets Desperation on her weapon, in which case, she'll probably have Chill Atk and Chill Spd on her weapon instead.

I don't really care about Gerome. He's basically just Cherche 2.0, but with a cavalry-effective default weapon instead of an armor-effective default weapon. I don't think he'll get a Brave weapon like Cherche did just to make them more different from each other, but it's not like I really care.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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Fjorm and Gunnthra getting refines gives me hope that Legendary Lyn would get a good refine for Swift Mulagir in a future update -- Lyn's Laws of Sacae II is a disappointment to me (stats are good but the conditional Firesweep effect is pretty suspect).

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5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dragonskin II is probably going to add Guard as a counterpart to Dragonscale's Breath effect, so it'll line up pretty nicely if that happens.

Dragonskin II gets the following: 

Neutralizes "effective against flying" bonuses. If foe initiates combat or if foe's HP >= 75% at start of combat, 
grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+6 to unit during combat and neutralizes foe's bonuses (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.).

Legendary F!Robin also gains Spd/Res Rein 3 as a new inheritable skill.

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