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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You realize that while Atk/Spd Ideal 3 currently has better distribution than Atk/Spd Solo 3, Atk/Spd Solo 3 still has higher usage, right?

I doubt it has higher usage outside of staff users who do not have the Catch equivalent yet. 

11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Which doesn't change the fact that Ground Orders and Guidance are still hot garbage for Save teams and are not worth the skill slots compared to alternative options.

If you're going to use mobility assists, you may as well use one that both doesn't use a skill slot and is flat out better.

There is nothing else that I can put in those skill slots that does something important. Having another Drive Def or Drive Res is going to have very little impact on performance. Half of my Elimines run Drive Def and Drive Res because Guidance and Ground Orders have already been taken by the other half.

3 hours ago, Rinco said:

It's completely unnecessary to have units dedicated to mobility on save teams, IMO (and I'd never lower my score crunching a bunch of also unnecessary Flayns on the team).

I run triple Flayns or quad Elimines on my Save tank team against the occasional cav line that my regular super tank team cannot handle and my own Galeforce team cannot easily reach.

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32 minutes ago, XRay said:

I doubt it has higher usage outside of staff users who do not have the Catch equivalent yet. 

I literally have not seen a single unit running Atk/Spd Ideal 3 yet.

 

33 minutes ago, XRay said:

There is nothing else that I can put in those skill slots that does something important. Having another Drive Def or Drive Res is going to have very little impact on performance. Half of my Elimines run Drive Def and Drive Res because Guidance and Ground Orders have already been taken by the other half.

Close Guard, Distant Guard, Drive Spd, and Phantom Res cover the Sacred Seals for the four units that aren't Save tanks, assuming you have no other offensive units. If you don't need Phantom Res (I ran into a Bride Catria yesterday with a Res Asset, Fortress Def/Res, Phantom Res, and Hone Res 4 support from an ally), Drive Atk is still more valuable than Guidance or Ground Orders on a Save team.

I still think it's a waste to use a full skill slot on mobility.

 

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

I run triple Flayns or quad Elimines on my Save tank team against the occasional cav line that my regular super tank team cannot handle and my own Galeforce team cannot easily reach.

Using a ladder costs less than bricking your score.

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44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Close Guard, Distant Guard, Drive Spd, and Phantom Res cover the Sacred Seals for the four units that aren't Save tanks, assuming you have no other offensive units. If you don't need Phantom Res (I ran into a Bride Catria yesterday with a Res Asset, Fortress Def/Res, Phantom Res, and Hone Res 4 support from an ally), Drive Atk is still more valuable than Guidance or Ground Orders on a Save team.

I still think it's a waste to use a full skill slot on mobility.

I agree on Phantom Res, but I have not found it too necessary yet. Drive Spd is dependent on the Save tank, so I just stick with Drive Def and Drive Res, and I already got Spd+16 from Mythic stats.

49 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Using a ladder costs less than bricking your score.

From time to time, I use up all my ladders, and I want to save them in case I am being a dumbass. I rather just take a score hit and be almost guaranteed to win.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/6/2022 at 9:57 PM, Yggi said:

If I had to predict the May refines, I'd say Gharnef, Duma, Picnic Felicia, Velouria and Kaden. I'm not confident in putting a 4*, I feel like we can do one more month without one. I hope I'm wrong and we can return to 6 refines per month pls....

I got 4 out of 5, and Thea added as the 4*, nice!
I can't wait for Ihmullu any longer, that tome deserves justice!!!

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RIP baby Azura, Ophelia and Surtr. It’s pretty safe to assume that they’re headed to the refine ban list now.

As for this month’s lineup (Gharnef, Idunn, Thea, Picnic Felicia, Kaden, Duma), it’s about what I expected except for Thea.

I thought that IS would drag their feet on giving refines to the Book III demotes (like they did with Book II’s demotes, particularly the ones that didn’t start with a Prf weapon).

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I've still never +10ed a blue flier, despite abortive attempts at having it be Cordelia, Altena, Seteth and ruling out Shigure due to his recent ho-hum refine. So I'll keep an eye on that one. Not that I can afford to do it as such - I've just finally +10ed Walhart, and gotten Yen'fay to +6 (which given I missed his initial run, is all I need for now).

Slightly off topic, but Shamir being one of the manuals is both good and bad, in that she's a unit I want to invest in, but even with that freebie I'd have to buy 10 with grails, making it all the more disappointing I missed her initial run. Missing her and Innes' TTs are probably the two biggest misses from my year off, everything else (except orbs of course) is just small fry.

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40 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

RIP baby Azura, Ophelia and Surtr. It’s pretty safe to assume that they’re headed to the refine ban list now.

As for this month’s lineup (Gharnef, Idunn, Thea, Picnic Felicia, Kaden, Duma), it’s about what I expected except for Thea.

I thought that IS would drag their feet on giving refines to the Book III demotes (like they did with Book II’s demotes, particularly the ones that didn’t start with a Prf weapon).

In all honesty Reinhardt and Olwen not gettingvrefines is pretty outdated. They are heavy outclassed.

Even Surtr not getting a refine is outdated considering how much cancer FEdelgard is and to some degree Bector and Asc.Idunn

Ophelia being on hold is fine for now

5 Star Daners should finally get a refine.. I mean seriously wtf

And 3-4 Star helars should get a refine too. They are just dead weight atm imho. Noone uses them, outdated stat-spread outdate playstyle.

 

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One translation note this time:

Icy Maltet is "氷槍マルテ" (hyōsō marute), "Ice Lance Maltet". The prefix is the exact same as the one for Icy Fimbulvetr, which is "氷槍フィンブル" (hyōsō finburu), "Ice Lance Fimbul".

 

Thea: Icy Maltet

Thea has Vanguard as her default weapon, which has a 7-Def Sturdy Stance as its base effect.

Thea's stats are unimpressive. Karin is currently the best lance flier with no exclusive weapon, and Thea is behind by a pretty significant -2/-4/-5/+7/-1 when both units have max Dragonflowers. Shigure is currently the best 4-star lance flier, and Thea is behind by -3/-19/-12/+4/+3 when both units have max Dragonflowers and with weapon equipped (Thea has a weapon with 16 Mt and +3 HP for the purpose of comparison).

I doubt Icy Maltet will use Vanguard as its base. Even if they wanted to make Thea a bulkier lance flier, she's already 9 points behind the current leaders from base stats alone with max Dragonflowers.

They might still make Icy Maltet boost her bulk, but if they do, I'd expect it to be either player phase or both phases instead of enemy phase only.

Gharnef: Imhullu

Imhullu currently has the effect of inflicting 5 damage and Flash to non-tome units in 5 columns centered on Gharnef at the start of turn 3. Also permanent +3 Res.

Gharnef is pretty notable for being unexpectedly fast, having the same base Spd as Tharja, male Morgan, and Katarina, but being weaker.

Imhullu is pretty useless considering we've gotten significantly better exclusive tomes with support effects on more recent Grand Hero Battle units, like Riev. The base effect at the very minimum should be upgraded to apply to at least both turns 3 and 4. As with other similar weapons, it's likely that it'll also get a boost to its damage effect and possibly a second status effect.

Imhullu's effect in its original games completely negated all damage (except from Starlight), and it's clear that inflicting Flash (except against tome units) was intended to mimic that effect, but in the end, it fails to really be effective. I expect to see damage reduction or some other method of significantly boosting Gharnef's bulk in its refine effect.

Idunn: Demonic Breath

Demonic Breath currently grants +4 to all stats and nullifies the unit's Penalties if the user is inflicted with a Penalty or the user's HP is not max. Also has effective damage against armors and a permanent +3 Def.

Demonic Breath is already pretty stacked for effects. All versions of Idunn currently have a weapon that nullifies the user's Penalties, but this version of Idunn is the only one that is missing follow-up prevention and Svalinn Shield. It's possible that one of those two effects might come in the refine. I'm hoping for Svalinn Shield.

Other than those, all Idunn really wants is either a guaranteed follow-up or damage reduction so that she can run the other effect in her B slot.

Also obligatory more stats.

Picnic Felicia: Eldhrimnir

Eldhrimnir currently reduces the opponent's Atk/Spd by 50% of the difference between Felicia's Res and the opponent's to a maximum of -8. Also has effective damage against beasts and a permanent +3 Spd.

Special Heroes typically get strong refines, so I'm expecting something similar to Selkie's from last month. Boost the calculation to 80% of the stat difference with the same maximum and add obligatory more stats.

With just her base weapon, with the maximum inflicted Spd penalty, she's only 1 point shy of Valentine Lucina's Spd, and her defensive stats are pretty similar, though with Def and Res switched. I think they could turn Felicia into another Lucina. It would be really cool if they gave her Pastel Poleaxe's damage reduction effect, but based off of Res instead of Def.

Kaden: Kitsune Fang

Kitsune Fang currently grants a Drive effect with the boost to each stat equal to the current Bonus on Kaden's corresponding stat. Also permanent +3 Def.

Give it Atk/Def Link to pair with his default Spd/Res Link. Also Null Panic as a self buff. Then add some other Drive effects.

Duma: Fell Breath

Fell Breath currently grants +6 Atk/Res and follow-up prevention, both effects if the opponent's HP is not max at the start of combat. Also permanent +3 Atk.

Upheaval+ is gaining Dull All with the condition being if Duma's Atk is higher than the opponent's at the start of combat or if the opponent's HP is not max. Fell Breath's base effect is pretty clearly going to be updated to have the same condition.

Duma is also gaining Fury 4 with his Remix, so it would probably be nice if he got some method of blocking its recoil damage. We just got the En Garde status effect with Mediuth, and I think it would be appropriate if Duma also got it, though perhaps only for himself.

I can also see him inflicting Deep Wounds as a start-of-turn effect to make it harder for the opponent to heal up the damage from Upheaval.

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Definitely see Icy Maltet being similar to the Base version it’s on a proper wielder for crying out loud with like Quick Mulagir is to Swift Mulagir with something to stand out hopefully keeps the Null weakness but for flyers. I mean let’s be honest Sue was pretty much a 4* with a 5* lock so I have hope.

Idunn needs to nullify armor weakness I’ve been wanting this for a LONG time I see this as very likely. GFU would also nice so I can run other skills on her!

Edited by Mage Goddess Lysithea
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I'm looking at Thea, I have a bit of history with the 4 star one that's in my Reserves currently. If Icy Maltet is good I wouldn't mind investing into her, another thing is that I can't justify investing into base Catria so Thea might have to do. I see people mentioning how good Quick Mulagir is compared the Swift Mulagir, but remember that Sue is a 5 star and Thea isn't. I'm definitely not expecting something on refined Maltet's level, but close is still good.

1 hour ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

Definitely see Icy Maltet being similar to the Base version it’s on a proper wielder for crying out loud with like Quick Mulagir is to Swift Mulagir with something to stand out hopefully keeps the Null weakness but for flyers.

Idunn needs to nullify armor weakness I’ve been wanting this for a LONG time I see this as very likely. GFU would also nice so I can run other skills on her!

Null Flier weakness and Guard Bearing would be solid for the defensive side of Icy Maltet. I can see Idunn getting Null Armor weakness since her Ascended has it and her Duo has that as a Duo skill.

@GuiltyLove What do you think about honorary Catria getting a refine?

I'm also interested in Garnef, because of potential meme teams with Kronya and Fallen Takumi. Using multiple Fallen Takumi's is too much for me so having a different unit would be nice. If he gets random Deep Wounds that would be cool.

 

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Oo yeah, looking at lance fliers compatible with Harmonic Catria in the 3-4* pool, there's, um, Clair, Shanna, Galle and Thea, so there's not a lot of competition there. If I extend my search out to 5* exclusives in my barracks, I can add Melady.

Of the others, I have an unmerged Idunn and a +1 Felicia, but given that I don't really use armours it means that no matter how good their refines are, all refining their weapons would do for me is make the 10th Stratum monthly quests slightly easier. So that leaves Garney as the wildcard I guess.

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1 hour ago, Naoshi said:

cwr1cgiwh0x81.jpg

They didnt even added dancers and healers this time around in the picture.

So, next month maybe Naesala, Picnic Flora, Velouria and Python?

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The refines I care about this time... Idunn, Kaden, and Duma. Thea sort of as well, but only because I somehow have her merged up to +5 off just 5* summons so it wouldn't be too hard to get her to the max if I really wanted to.

Kaden I wonder if he'll get a way to grant himself and allies Null Panic. Spectrum Link would be nice, he'll probably get some in-combat boost from having a bonus.

I hope Duma switches the +himself to a -foe and that'll already be a great upgrade. Maybe a version of Dragon Wall that compares current HP totals...?

I don't wanna guess Idunn, I just hope she compares favorably to her other alts. Built in Save would be the dream though...

Icy Maltet will probably be boosting all of Thea's stats if foe initiates or someone has a certain HP threshold.

Edited by Xenomata
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1 hour ago, Rinco said:

So, next month maybe Naesala, Picnic Flora, Velouria and Python?

Add sothis to this possiblity

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Oh Duma is getting a refine? I talked about him on this thread years ago long before he was in a y need of one, and at that time I predicted the deep wounds starus befire it became a thing. Now it seems so obvious I'll be surprised if he doesn't get it.

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3 hours ago, Naoshi said:

Add sothis to this possiblity

Yeah... Sothis scheduled for June makes me think they will give her a refinement and remix next month. Probably as something related to Three Hopes release.

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7 hours ago, Rinco said:

So, next month maybe Naesala, Picnic Flora, Velouria and Python?

Python is months ahead of any of the non-CYL3 refines so far. I think it'll be a while before he shows up, if we get a demote it'd probably be Mordecai. But they might space the demotes out a bit, since Mordecai is the only one left before September 2019.

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Surtr next month? The poor guy has fallen off so hard since his days in the sun. He barely manages to be a speed bump for the powerfull nukes that are running around these days.

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2 hours ago, Opdepov said:

Surtr next month? The poor guy has fallen off so hard since his days in the sun. He barely manages to be a speed bump for the powerfull nukes that are running around these days.

Unlikely. Surtr is almost certainly joining Hector, Reinhardt, Olwen, and Ophelia in refinery limbo.

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2 hours ago, Opdepov said:

Surtr next month? The poor guy has fallen off so hard since his days in the sun. He barely manages to be a speed bump for the powerfull nukes that are running around these days.

He is not going to get a Refine in the near future, since he got skipped and they are doing Book III now.

I do not think he qualifies as a speed bump. To me Edelgard: Hegemon Husk is barely a speed bump, so Surtr is irrelevant at best and awful for the defense team at worst, since he cannot even keep up with his teammates to pressure the player.

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9 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think he qualifies as a speed bump. To me Edelgard: Hegemon Husk is barely a speed bump, so Surtr is irrelevant at best and awful for the defense team at worst, since he cannot even keep up with his teammates to pressure the player.

Surtr is still viable as a player-controlled unit in game modes with no turn limit. The only difference from before is that he can no longer deal with ranged units since most of them are now strong enough to kill him.

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55 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Surtr is still viable as a player-controlled unit in game modes with no turn limit. The only difference from before is that he can no longer deal with ranged units since most of them are now strong enough to kill him.

He has not been able to deal with ranged units for a quite long time now. Alm: Saint King and Celica: Saintly Seraphim shred him to bits in Arena, and Blazing nukes turn him to ash, and they have been around for a long time and he was never able to deal with them properly without help from teammates. He is probably fine outside of PvP, but that is about it.

Edited by XRay
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