General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Charmeleonbrah]

Camilla's new axe is pretty good.  It's 16 mt plus a (conditional) Swift Sparrow 2 means she can hit pretty hard even when she isn't receiving flyer buffs.  What is interesting is that it activates on enemy phase as well; this means that, with the combo of Distant COunter & Flier buffs & SS's, she can be an absolute nuke enemy-phase.  Too bad I already built her up to be a quadaxe Desperation user...

Camilla Emblem is looking set. 

• Regular Camilla: Camilla's Axe/Desperation /Galeforce/Heavy Blade sacred seal
• Spring Cm: Gronnblade/Close COunter/Quick Riposte/Close Def 3 SS
• Holiday 'milla: Firesweep S., Swift Sparrow, Hit and Run
• Airzura traffic controller
• Everyone has flier buffs

[Zelgius]

1 hour ago, Stroud said:

Same, my core was about Camilla and Infantry/Armored units. Now it became quite a mess. I still can play her the way I used her before. But I want to make something out of her axe... 

My core is actually the same, I use one flier (Camilla), one armour, one infantry, and a bonus unit (usually an Askr). Part of me wants to just throw on a res refine with Camilla's Axe but I utilise Aether with her so the lack of cooldown charge could mess with that build. I guess I could just try it and see how it goes, but it would likely just be a worse off weapon that looks cooler.

[Stroud]

45 minutes ago, Zelgius said:

My core is actually the same, I use one flier (Camilla), one armour, one infantry, and a bonus unit (usually an Askr). Part of me wants to just throw on a res refine with Camilla's Axe but I utilise Aether with her so the lack of cooldown charge could mess with that build. I guess I could just try it and see how it goes, but it would likely just be a worse off weapon that looks cooler.

Same goes for me, the lack of cooldown charge hurts Camilla with Aether. And I need that for points.
At least I can still use her in Arena Assault. And for the normal Arena I guess it depends on the bonus unit. If I need to play a horse or flier as a bonus unit I will give her Camillas axe. If not I use Slaying axe. 
I will think about my Camilla build anyway, because for now she looks a bit like a Beruka substitute. I'm still hesitating to fodder Vector.

[Hilda]

12 hours ago, Zelgius said:

My core is actually the same, I use one flier (Camilla), one armour, one infantry, and a bonus unit (usually an Askr). Part of me wants to just throw on a res refine with Camilla's Axe but I utilise Aether with her so the lack of cooldown charge could mess with that build. I guess I could just try it and see how it goes, but it would likely just be a worse off weapon that looks cooler.

Luckily the update to Clairs weapon didnt mess up anything about my Core Team. It just got stronger then before altough i miss the +4 RES refine she had ¬.¬ its at times noticeable when she goes against Green nukers/Dragon users, but then again they die faster in return now lol.

[Tenzen12]

I guess Corrin will be perfect partner for L!Lyn, huh.

[redlight]

Could get some feedback @Ice Dragon @Zeo 

Berkut

• Kriemhild (16 Mt): If in combat against a non-cavalry unit, inflicts Atk-5 on foe during combat. (Basically Kriemheld's bonus stats, but with a condition that it only affects peasants)
• Refinement: If unit is within 2 spaces of an staff ally, grants Def/Res+5 during combat. (I tried replicating Phantasm, but reducing the damage by percentage would be too powerful IMO so I decided on the idea of using the Berkut and Rinea boss battle as inspiration)

Boey

• Seafarer's Tome (14 Mt): At the start of each turn, inflicts Spd-7 on foe on the enemy team with the highest Spd through its next action. If there is a tie between several units, they will all get the debuff. (The last chill tome, ensures that he doesn't get doubled as often as well as aid allies with this)
• Refinement: At start of turn, if unit is within 2 spaces of a water tile, grants Atk/Spd+5 to ally with the lowest Def through their next action. (Based on the idea of him trying to cheer Mae on)

Catria

• Almace (16 Mt):  Grants +10 to damage when Special triggers. (Helps out her damage output)
• Refinement:  If in combat against a armored or infantry foe, unit deals +5 damage. (Basically the "Trample" skill from Fates to further boost her damage output)

Ogma

• Mercurious (16 Mt): At the start of every third turn, restores 10 HP. At start of every odd-numbered turns, bonuses become penalties on all foes in cardinal directions with HP 1 or more lower than unit through foe's next action. (Using his high HP he can panic foes. Renewal based on Mercurious´s effect)
• Refinement: Adds 50% of total penalties on foe to unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat. (He needs the extra stats to help out his offense and defense)

Edited May 11, 2018 by silveraura25

[Shiki]

So ... what existing legendary Weapons are left that are in need of a refine?
- Ragnarok
- Dark Aura
- Dark Excalibur
- Vidofnir
- Nidhogg
- Cursed Lance

Though the last one is a bit iffy since it has basically 2 effects (it's a Slaying Lance with pseudo-Fury). It's 2nd effect could use some higher stats though just like the Regal Blade.

[bottlegnomes]

@silveraura25 I don't think a 30% drop would be too OP for Berkut even if it is for both hits. Assuming the peasant effect is active, that's 63 for a physical 2HKO and 56 for magic with the +5. If the % is on both hits, that becomes essentially 31 a hit to kill him, for 67 physical and 60 magical. That's better but, not a huge difference as far as I know, and the gap gets smaller the lower damage is with up to 50p/43m being even. If you were intending first hit like most other skills of that kind, the +5 is better.

Anyway, I think the way it is is fine, but just figured it wouldn't hurt to address the % decrease since you mentioned it.

On a different note, I really want that parenthetical included in the in-game description.

Boey's refine, if I'm reading it correctly, seems impractical, though I do quite like the nod to him and Mae.

@The Priest I'm not sure Ragnarock really needs a refinement. It does only have one effect, but that essentially gives her pseudo swift sparrow/stance at full health. That's arguably on par with some of the newer weapons.

Edited May 11, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Ice Dragon]

@silveraura25

Berkut: I honestly can't see myself using this over Berkut's Lance+, which does almost the same thing, but without all of those strings attached.

Boey: I don't really know what this weapon is meant to do. It looks like it turns him into a support bot, which is a complete waste of his fantastic physical bulk that defines his standard Gronnraven+ and Gronnowl+ builds.

Catria: Catria really just wants a lance Hauteclere. Her stat line is almost identical to Minerva's. Almace's name is already taken in the Fire Emblem universes as "Armads".

Ogma: I won't agree to Mercurius being given out to anyone but Astram first. Ogma also doesn't "need the stats to help out his offense and defense". Sure, he's no longer on par with the new sword infantry, but he's still considered better than Roy (who just got a refine), Lyn (who got a refine a long time ago), and Seliph (who has one of the more broken weapons in the game).

Also, negative bonuses aren't counted as penalties, so Panicked bonuses wouldn't give him the stat boost anyways.

[redlight]

52 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@silveraura25

Berkut: I honestly can't see myself using this over Berkut's Lance+, which does almost the same thing, but without all of those strings attached.

Boey: I don't really know what this weapon is meant to do. It looks like it turns him into a support bot, which is a complete waste of his fantastic physical bulk that defines his standard Gronnraven+ and Gronnowl+ builds.

Catria: Catria really just wants a lance Hauteclere. Her stat line is almost identical to Minerva's. Almace's name is already taken in the Fire Emblem universes as "Armads".

Ogma: I won't agree to Mercurius being given out to anyone but Astram first. Ogma also doesn't "need the stats to help out his offense and defense". Sure, he's no longer on par with the new sword infantry, but he's still considered better than Roy (who just got a refine), Lyn (who got a refine a long time ago), and Seliph (who has one of the more broken weapons in the game).

Also, negative bonuses aren't counted as penalties, so Panicked bonuses wouldn't give him the stat boost anyways.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll do my best to improve them. But the problem I had with Boey was that CC is a skill he'd want to run, but it's expensive. I would want to theorycraft a weapon he can use without CC so that budget players can easily use him

Edited May 11, 2018 by silveraura25

[Ice Dragon]

57 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll do my best to improve them. But the problem I had with Boey was that CC is a skill he'd want to run, but it's expensive. I would want to theorycraft a weapon he can use without CC so that budget players can easily use him

Boey's budget build is Gronnraven with Bowbreaker. I think he can even forgo Triangle Adept for something like Steady Stance, Distant Def, or Atk/Def Bond to not get screwed over by Cancel Affinity.

[redlight]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Boey's budget build is Gronnraven with Bowbreaker. I think he can even forgo Triangle Adept for something like Steady Stance, Distant Def, or Atk/Def Bond to not get screwed over by Cancel Affinity.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll do my best

[Zeo]

@silveraura25 Sorry I'm late.

Berkut: I have to agree with Ice Dragon on this one 100%. It's a unique idea, but again, a lot of extra strings.

Boey: Chill SPD is never a bad thing, but it seems odd on him. Then you have a refine that's completely useless on at least half of the maps. He should have something that compliments his physical bulk I think.

Catria: I feel like it's lazy to slap the Killing/Wo Dao+ effect on everything, but considering Clair and Caeda got the same weapon, it would actually really help Catria who's more or less balanced. Again I have to agree with Ice Dragon.

Ogma: No need to give him Renewal 3 when Falchion has built in Renewal 2 I think. The Panic Ploy effect is great but the refine I think should be something simpler along the lines of Ogma getting +2 to all stats for every enemy on the field hit by his ploy.

[redlight]

@Zeo thanks 

[Hilda]

what Boey needs is Myrrhs Breath weapon as a tome, including the part where he targets the lower of the 2 stats DEF and RES of the targets.
Give him that and you have a okeish unit. He suffers from low spd which tampers his bulk side and from low attack which tampers his kill potential. It would make him good but not OP because he would still get killed by magical dmg, dragons and red sword units due to his poor RES.

If you want to make him fantastic give him Myrrhs Breath weapon effect that prevents doubles with high defense and the Gronnblade effect and you have a fantastic enemy phase close counter unit.

[redlight]

39 minutes ago, Hilda said:

what Boey needs is Myrrhs Breath weapon as a tome, including the part where he targets the lower of the 2 stats DEF and RES of the targets.
Give him that and you have a okeish unit. He suffers from low spd which tampers his bulk side and from low attack which tampers his kill potential. It would make him good but not OP because he would still get killed by magical dmg, dragons and red sword units due to his poor RES.

If you want to make him fantastic give him Myrrhs Breath weapon effect that prevents doubles with high defense and the Gronnblade effect and you have a fantastic enemy phase close counter unit.

Myrrh's breath would be great, but if I pair it up with Gronnblade it'd be a tad too powerful. But thanks for the feedback

[Silverly]

I think a potential new weapon candidate that a lot of people overlook is young Tiki. It feels weird for her to be locked at *5 and yet only have a Silver Breath for her arsenal. I know a few will comment “But she’s already good!”, but even so it wouldn’t hurt to differentiate from the generic Lightningbreath builds.

I think Azura, both Robins, Narcian, Rebecca, and Navarre could use something new too.

[Troykv]

8 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

I think a potential new weapon candidate that a lot of people overlook is young Tiki. It feels weird for her to be locked at *5 and yet only have a Silver Breath for her arsenal. I know a few will comment “But she’s already good!”, but even so it wouldn’t hurt to differentiate from the generic Lightningbreath builds.

I think Azura, both Robins, Narcian, Rebecca, and Navarre could use something new too.

I'm expecting that all the native Silver Weapon Users (maybe not Olivia because she is overused) will get a Prf Weapon... I would like to have a reason to use my Rebecca, because I actually like her.

[Fabulously Olivier]

A few more ideas:

 

Robin: High Deliverer

The Art of War

Mt. 14

When Assist skill is used, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3 to target and restores 10 hp to target.

 

Refinery Skill -

HP + 3, Spur Spectrum (Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3 to allies within 1 space during combat).

 

Hawkeye - Desert Guardian

Guardian Axe

Mt. 16

If unit receives consecutive attacks, reduces damage from foe's second attack onward by 80%.

 

Refinery Skill -

HP +3, Patience (If foe initiates combat, unit will not retaliate until all of foe's follow-up attacks occur. Foe's first attack deals 30% reduced damage and grants Special Cooldown Charge +1 to unit. Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)

 

Lukas: Sharp Soldier

Deliverance

Mt. 16

Armored Blade - If unit's Def > foe's Def, grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack.(Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)

 

Refinery Skill - 

HP + 3, Victory or Defeat (Grants Atk/Def +5, Inflicts Spd/Res -5)

Edited May 15, 2018 by Etheus

[redlight]

6 hours ago, Etheus said:

A few more ideas:

 

Robin: High Deliverer

The Art of War

Mt. 14

When Assist skill is used, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3 to target and restores 10 hp to target.

 

Refinery Skill -

HP + 3, Spur Spectrum (Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3 to allies within 1 space during combat).

 

Hawkeye - Desert Guardian

Guardian Axe

Mt. 16

If unit receives consecutive attacks, reduces damage from foe's second attack onward by 80%.

 

Refinery Skill -

HP +3, Patience (If foe initiates combat, unit will not retaliate until all of foe's follow-up attacks occur. Foe's first attack deals 30% reduced damage and grants Special Cooldown Charge +1 to unit. Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)

 

Lukas: Sharp Soldier

Deliverance

Mt. 16

Armored Blade - If unit's Def > foe's Def, grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack.(Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)

 

Refinery Skill - 

HP + 3, Victory or Defeat (Grants Atk/Def +5, Inflicts Spd/Res -5)

Robin: You're making him support only. He's gonna have trouble doing things by himself. The regular effect is OP IMO. You could use shove or something and bam. +3 to all stats without range. The heal is kinda... Not that useful in my opinion. Make it so that the initial effect is something that makes Robin usable by himself. Bump up the spur spectrum to +4

Hawkeye: Initial effect is too OP. Tone it down to 20% for attacks that target Res or something. Cooldown charge effect is overkill for the refinement

Lukas: I'm guessing you meant armored blade to be the effect and not the name of the weapon. Make armored blade effect the refinement and the refinement the main effect

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Robin: You're making him support only. He's gonna have trouble doing things by himself. The regular effect is OP IMO. You could use shove or something and bam. +3 to all stats without range. The heal is kinda... Not that useful in my opinion. Make it so that the initial effect is something that makes Robin usable by himself. Bump up the spur spectrum to +4

Hawkeye: Initial effect is too OP. Tone it down to 20% for attacks that target Res or something. Cooldown charge effect is overkill for the refinement

Lukas: I'm guessing you meant armored blade to be the effect and not the name of the weapon. Make armored blade effect the refinement and the refinement the main effect

 

I could see the complaint about Robin being a pure support. He faces a similar problem to Odin, that his stat spread is so poor that fixing him would require a powerful support playstyle or a grotesquely overpowered weapon, especially now that his niche (as an enemy phase anti-bow unit) has been damaged by Cancel Affinity.

Hawkeye's initial weapon effect literally already exists on Brave Ike - a much better (and still not broken) character.

[redlight]

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

I could see the complaint about Robin being a pure support. He faces a similar problem to Odin, that his stat spread is so poor that fixing him would require a powerful support playstyle or a grotesquely overpowered weapon, especially now that his niche (as an enemy phase anti-bow unit) has been damaged by Cancel Affinity.

Hawkeye's initial weapon effect literally already exists on Brave Ike - a much better (and still not broken) character.

Robin is still much better than Odin because his attack is 7 points greater as well as not being as balanced as Odin. Has also slightly more def. You could just give Robin type effectiveness against certain types of units if you think his stats are pretty bad. For example, effective against colorless units or something as that would still be similar to his standard raventome build

You're basically giving Hawkeye a weapon which mitigates damage from the opponents first attack, allows the opponent to desperation you while you have the omni deflect skill. To top it off you're giving him a breath effect from the first of your opponent's attack. How is that not broken?

[Tenzen12]

Just give Robin Legendary Raven with CC when above 80% HP you can't go wrong with that.

 

Edit: second effect would have to be refinery thing I guess.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Tenzen12

[redlight]

15 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Just give Robin Legendary Raven with CC when above 80% HP you can't go wrong with that.

 

Edit: second effect would have to be refinery thing I guess.

CC would be unfair to those that sacrificed a Takumi or Tharja for him. They should reserve DC and CC for new units only

[Tenzen12]

That's why it has catch, plus those who gave him close counter can't run TA on him.

Well, given Robin is as cheap as dirt, there should be no problem just sacrifice one to recycle CC and build new one.