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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

PSA for Celica's Refine

There is a translation error.

The condition is not "If foe initiates combat or if unit's HP < 100% at start of combat". It should be "If unit's HP < 100% or foe's HP < 100% at start of combat".

 

EDIT: Tagging everyone who's commented on it so far. @Jotari @Diovani Bressan @NSSKG151

That changes things. Because before, it was like two and half of characters got a weapon like Balmung. Berkut and Sheena don't get speed which isn't as important to them while with the translation error, witch Celica's other condition was for her to not be at full health instead of the foe having full health.

Both regular and witch Celica's weapons makes me wonder if +Spd might be preferred over +Atk considering the speed creep. That said, regular Celica does get more attack and speed than witch Celica desire having slightly lower base offenses and witch Celica being able to run Galeforce means for a Galeforce build that she might now want too much attack that she could accidentally one shot someone when could have gotten a Galeforce proc off.

And regarding the translation error which I don't know or remember if it was asked before, but does the Japanese description for Gaius's Candied Dagger say it deals damage or boosts damage? I think I remember people testing it and it deals damage despite it saying it boosts damage. An aside: that 10% is so bad compared to legendary Alm and legendary Celica's initiate and deal 25% of their foe's defense for Alm and resistance for Celica and Gangrel dealing 20% of his resistance on either phase of his foe is debuffed. Gaius can stack it with more dealt damage, but he needs his foe to be at full health.

Edited by Kaden

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Huh. Not particularly interested in any of the others, but I'll have to figure out what to think of Sheena's. She doesn't seem to care much about Special Fighter, but she does want DC + Vengeful Fighter, if I build her at all. Which still doesn't really answer the question of whether I need to keep saving my extra Nagi or can feed her to Jaffar.

Corrin was the other potentially relevant one to me, so the fact that I'm not interested in hers means that if I build a blue dragon, it'll probably be Nowi. So I'm curious to see what she'll have.

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Corrin's weapon has some potential, but it will be some time before I can get her DC. She appreciates Res Smoke, but I foddered the free 4* Brunnya to Winter Sothis, and I guess Mirabilis is a great team mate for her with Sabotage Def.

@Othin I'm guessing Nowi would get  something similar to Halloween Hector's weapon, where she gets in-combat stat buffs during odd numbered turns, maybe even keep the Lightning Breath effect.

Edited by LoneStar

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Another month of floating 200k feathers and just frittering away the excess on random +1s then. I don't think I even gained a single copy of any of my insufficient-copy maybes like Tethys, Altena or Reyson over the last month. If I was smart I should probably just spend them on a meta unit to make my life easier but a unit like Tharja, Cordelia or one of the Brave Boy archers would make such an unexciting pick.

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Berkut's refine may at least make him worth using, but I don't have a spare DC lying around.

 

Really disappointed in FCorrins. It's very situational, on a unit who really needed the help.

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2 hours ago, LoneStar said:

I'm guessing Nowi would get  something similar to Halloween Hector's weapon, where she gets in-combat stat buffs during odd numbered turns, maybe even keep the Lightning Breath effect.

That's all I need: A Prf Lightning Breath with 16 Mt and no Cooldown penalty. The Odd Numbered Turns buff would be a nice reference to the Manakete's skill Odd Rhythm.

Edited by Diovani Bressan

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This is probably my overt disdain for the character speaking, but I hope Nowi's prf is worse than Gloom Breath and Breath of Fog. The strongest of the free dragons shouldn't also have the strongest prf.

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21 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

This is probably my overt disdain for the character speaking, but I hope Nowi's prf is worse than Gloom Breath and Breath of Fog. The strongest of the free dragons shouldn't also have the strongest prf.

I hope Nowi just dies, because i am sick still sick of seeing her everywhere in the first 2.5 years of FEH

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1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

This is probably my overt disdain for the character speaking, but I hope Nowi's prf is worse than Gloom Breath and Breath of Fog. The strongest of the free dragons shouldn't also have the strongest prf.

I've been hankering for a dragon unit that can give combat boosts, so that's what I'd be after on her. Wouldn't necessarily make her any better, but would determine what teams she runs with.

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My best guess is that Nowi is stuck in Distant Counter Limbo with Ike, Ryoma, and the like. I don't see her getting a Prf that doesn't use Lightning Breath as a base.

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35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My best guess is that Nowi is stuck in Distant Counter Limbo with Ike, Ryoma, and the like. I don't see her getting a Prf that doesn't use Lightning Breath as a base.

Adult Tiki got one that doesn't. It's not like the units that already have a prf, and she could get some sort of conditional DC effect like Osian/Say'ri.

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2 hours ago, Othin said:

Adult Tiki got one that doesn't.

That's obviously because she tagged along on Mystery Tiki's weapon instead of getting something unique for herself.

And if anyone wants to argue that Breath of Fog is not first and foremost Mystery Tiki's weapon, Awakening Tiki doesn't have a Prf weapon in her source game, whereas Mystery Tiki has Breath of Fog as her weapon in FE3 Book 2 while transformed into a Divine Dragon.

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7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's obviously because she tagged along on Mystery Tiki's weapon instead of getting something unique for herself.

And if anyone wants to argue that Breath of Fog is not first and foremost Mystery Tiki's weapon, Awakening Tiki doesn't have a Prf weapon in her source game, whereas Mystery Tiki has Breath of Fog as her weapon in FE3 Book 2 while transformed into a Divine Dragon.

I wonder if that qualifies ATiki for her own prf. *shrugs*

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47 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's obviously because she tagged along on Mystery Tiki's weapon instead of getting something unique for herself.

And if anyone wants to argue that Breath of Fog is not first and foremost Mystery Tiki's weapon, Awakening Tiki doesn't have a Prf weapon in her source game, whereas Mystery Tiki has Breath of Fog as her weapon in FE3 Book 2 while transformed into a Divine Dragon.

And she was able to do that because they didn't feel the need to pass up on an opportunity to give Adult Tiki a non-DC prf.

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17 minutes ago, Othin said:

And she was able to do that because they didn't feel the need to pass up on an opportunity to give Adult Tiki a non-DC prf.

And Nowi doesn't get that excuse.

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Jeez, I come in to give my thoughts on the new weapons and refines, just to see so much hate for Nowi, what gives...

  • Knowing the written effect of Beloved Zofia is wrong is... well, I still don't know how to feel about it. On the one hand the two effects together boost Celica's stats by a very necessary amount that she needs to match with current Infantry Swords, but on the other it means she is completely unable to use skills like Desperation with her HP fluctuating so much.
  • Dark Royal Spear is basically what one would expect for a replacement to Berkut's Lance. Does it put Berkut in the spotlight again, I dunno. But it certainly gives merit to using Berkut again.
  • Corrin can be a sort of Threaten bot with Gloom Breath, her default Threaten Res, and the Threaten Def SS. As long as her defensive ability can keep up, she should have no problems being put in the thick of things.
  • I'll be honest, Sheena feels like the wrong way to have done her refine. Atk/Def+5 is alright, but you would have benefited Sheena a lot more if it were a Atk/Def -5 debuff on the foe. I mean, she DOES have a Res stat, but this refine completely ignores it.
    ...not saying it's a bad refine. Just saying I think they did it wrong.

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I'd like Fae to get a refine, not sure which of she or Nowi needs it more but they should both get one anyway. And Fae's winter self got fucked over too, she's the only dragon armor without a prf. Actually, I think she's the only dragon unit introduced after a certain point who doesn't have a prf breath, what gives? Would like Ninian to get one too, I think she's the only other dragon released after launch without a prf (although she has the excuse of coming early in Y1). She might be stuck in dancer hell, though.

Nowi being stuck in DC hell feels ... slightly odd, there's no reason why they couldn't give her another effect for her prf. And with Fallen Ike being a thing, there should even be a DC hell anymore.

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23 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'd like Fae to get a refine, not sure which of she or Nowi needs it more but they should both get one anyway. And Fae's winter self got fucked over too, she's the only dragon armor without a prf. Actually, I think she's the only dragon unit introduced after a certain point who doesn't have a prf breath, what gives? Would like Ninian to get one too, I think she's the only other dragon released after launch without a prf (although she has the excuse of coming early in Y1). She might be stuck in dancer hell, though.

Nowi being stuck in DC hell feels ... slightly odd, there's no reason why they couldn't give her another effect for her prf. And with Fallen Ike being a thing, there should even be a DC hell anymore.

Male Kana doesn't have one, either. Or Bantu.

To be fair, you could also say Winter Fae and the Kanas were the only post-launch units to introduce new inheritable breaths.

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16 minutes ago, Othin said:

Male Kana doesn't have one, either. Or Bantu.

To be fair, you could also say Winter Fae and the Kanas were the only post-launch units to introduce new inheritable breaths.

I ... totally forgot all of those existed.

I legit don't know how.

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

but on the other it means she is completely unable to use skills like Desperation with her HP fluctuating so much.

You can counter-balance the healing effect with any skill that deals at least 3 damage after combat. They're basically begging you to use Fury on her.

 

40 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Nowi being stuck in DC hell feels ... slightly odd, there's no reason why they couldn't give her another effect for her prf. And with Fallen Ike being a thing, there should even be a DC hell anymore.

I'm pretty sure they're using Altina and Fallen Ike as measuring sticks to see what they can get away with without having launch units break the game in half.

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6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm pretty sure they're using Altina and Fallen Ike as measuring sticks to see what they can get away with without having launch units break the game in half.

I could understand Altina getting DC+brave effect on her weapon because she's a Mythic hero with a limited pull schedule and before Heroes barely had a character or design.

Fallen Ike is a character in the regular pool. Sure, he debuted on a banner where apparently everyone was deemed too OP to demote, but still a regular pool unit nonetheless. There isn't particularly anything special or limited about him that couldn't also go for every other Fallen Hero. On the contrary, Hardin (who is admittedly Y2) got the same Gravidus as Camus instead of an alternate form of it to emphasize his "Fallen" ... ness.

DC weapons don't need to get an effect as ridiculous as fallen Ike's Ragnell. The launch units don't need to break the game in half, but they should get something to keep them viable, especially when mages are getting blade times with refines.

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6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's obviously because she tagged along on Mystery Tiki's weapon instead of getting something unique for herself.

And if anyone wants to argue that Breath of Fog is not first and foremost Mystery Tiki's weapon, Awakening Tiki doesn't have a Prf weapon in her source game, whereas Mystery Tiki has Breath of Fog as her weapon in FE3 Book 2 while transformed into a Divine Dragon.

I thought young Tiki was a Fire Dragon

While this is true, one must wonder why they decided to give young and old Tiki the same refine. They have different base weapons, there was really no need to.So while it might have been designed for young Tiki first, they thought it suitable enough either in gameplay or lore for both Tikis available at the time to have it. Tiki does have Wyrmslayer in Awakening, no doubt as originally a reference to Divine Stone, but it does mean she's suitable for Breath of Fog.

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I'd like Fae to get a refine, not sure which of she or Nowi needs it more but they should both get one anyway. And Fae's winter self got fucked over too, she's the only dragon armor without a prf. Actually, I think she's the only dragon unit introduced after a certain point who doesn't have a prf breath, what gives? Would like Ninian to get one too, I think she's the only other dragon released after launch without a prf (although she has the excuse of coming early in Y1). She might be stuck in dancer hell, though.

Nowi being stuck in DC hell feels ... slightly odd, there's no reason why they couldn't give her another effect for her prf. And with Fallen Ike being a thing, there should even be a DC hell anymore.

You make Bantu feel ignored and unloved.

Edited by Jotari

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I thought young Tiki was a Fire Dragon

She was until they fucked everything up.

Speaking of everything being fucked up, she now has her Book 1 battle sprite with her Book 2 weapon. ┻━┻ ミヽ(`Д´)ノ彡 ┻━┻

 

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

While this is true, one must wonder why they decided to give young and old Tiki the same refine. They have different base weapons, there was really no need to.So while it might have been designed for young Tiki first, they thought it suitable enough either in gameplay or lore for both Tikis available at the time to have it. Tiki does have Wyrmslayer in Awakening, no doubt as originally a reference to Divine Stone, but it does mean she's suitable for Breath of Fog.

There is, in fact, never a need for 2 units to receive the same new weapon regardless of their base weapon, unlike refines for existing weapons. None of the new weapons have skill prerequisites at all, just rarity. Units promoted from 3-star rarity can even skip both their 4-star and 5-star weapons and go straight to their Prf if the Prf weapon was from a refine update.

They decided it was reasonable enough for Awakening Tiki to receive the same weapon as her younger version, and that's it.

Nowi, on the other hand, doesn't have any excuse to piggyback on someone else's weapon, and I don't see any reason why they'd give her a weapon that doesn't have Distant Counter on it. Partly because they've waited this long and partly because 

(I'd even go so far as to give Fae at least a small chance of also getting Distant Counter. Unlikely, but possible.)

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

She was until they fucked everything up.

Speaking of everything being fucked up, she now has her Book 1 battle sprite with her Book 2 weapon. ┻━┻ ミヽ(`Д´)ノ彡 ┻━┻

And her fallen incarnation is Book 1 exclusive while using the Book 2 sprite. X[

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