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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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Halloween Nowi? This, uh, opens up a bunch of possibilities.

No DC, dancers, or Dire Thunder though. Guess they're just fucked.

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9 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Grimoire literally just allows Nowi to warp to an ally that’s within two spaces (and Nowi’s HP needs to be at or above 50% too). That is all that Prf does without a refine. 

Meanwhile, that is just one of the effects on Brave Edelgard’s Flower Hauteclere (but with the HP threshold being “at or above 25%” instead).

Sure, but then there's Carrot Axe+. "If unit initiates combat, restores 4 HP after combat."

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13 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Sure, but then there's Carrot Axe+. "If unit initiates combat, restores 4 HP after combat."

That can actually get upgraded to “after combat, if unit attacked” if you refine it (same for the other three Spring 2017 weapons).

That, and Carrot Axe+ could at least be refined at all and grant its user additional stats. Grimoire and the other hilariously outdated seasonal Prfs didn’t even have that until this update. 

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4 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

That can actually get upgraded to “after combat, if unit attacked” if you refine it (same for the other three Spring 2017 weapons).

That, and Carrot Axe+ could at least be refined at all and grant its user additional stats. Grimoire and the other hilariously outdated seasonal Prfs didn’t even have that until this update. 

Hmm, didn't know about the refine changing that. But even taking into account an Atk refine, the Grimoire still has 1 more Atk than a refined Green Egg+ (or any other generic tome) so it's not really a point against it. But I suppose overall it's close enough to parity that letting it slide is okay. Hoping it doesn't become a pattern though.

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Pretty odd that they'd give Halloween Nowi a refine in early March. Though then again, they've pretty much run out of book 1 Prf weapons to refine that aren't DC weapons or Dire Thunder.

Halloween Nowi and Performing Arts Azura are the only book 1 seasonal units with a Prf weapon though since Azura is a refresh unit, well... Whereas Nowi has a very trash Prf weapon (Aerobatics 2 + Flier Formation 2).

Would be nice to see the book 1 seasonal units with inheritable weapons get refineable Prf weapons as well; however, there are still a lot of them and it'd take a long time to do if they decided to go through with it at all.

L'Arachel getting a refine means that IS is finally giving book 2 demotes refineable Prfs. Only a matter of time before popular book 2 demotes like Soleil and Ares get refines, too!

Edited by Roflolxp54

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Kind of didn't want them to go into seasonal refines at all. That just means a tonne more units that need to wait to get refines until some of the more modern units that need them (or would just be fun to have them) need to wait. Wasn't even aware Witch Nowi's weapon was a unique weapon before now. I'm guessing she'll probably get free warp ability to move adjacent to any ally at all, not just allies in two spaces, to simulate Witch's warping ability. Still holding out hope they give us that on a Marla or Hestia unit some day though, personally I think those two would make for great Halloween seasonals.

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1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Great! Now we have to worry about seasonal refines slowing down the whole process. It's fine if they take up an extra slot like this one does, but otherwise, it's very shitty.

Hopefully it means five new refines as a standard going forward. They really need to have refines at least match the number of new units we get, especially now if we're counting free units among them.

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Very divided on the whole Seasonal refine I see.

Personally? Doesn't bother me even with my confessed Nowi bias. The only thing I have to mention is that we seem to have forgotten Soleil... that or they skipped her for the moment because they have 3 Red units getting a refine already, with her it woulda been 4 red 1 blue...

Edited by Xenomata

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Yeah, Halloween Nowi was always the one I'd been expecting first, but not here. Wonder if they've got some sort of rerun planned for her, maybe as part of a change to how they're handling old seasonal reruns.

I've also been speculating about giving old seasonals the Redux treatment, better non-weapon skills rather than new weapons, so skipping over the ones without prfs fits that.

I'm loving this structure: one Book 1 main, one grail, one seasonal, one Book 2 common, one Book 2 rare. Hopefully they'll continue having this much variety for a while. Some candidates for next time are:

  • Hector or Olwen+Reinhardt
  • Fallen Takumi or Gerome
  • Spring Sharena or Spring Catria
  • Sothe or Morgan M
  • Karla, Sumia, Maribelle, or a September unit

And I was so distracted by all that, I almost forgot to be excited about L'Arachel! I have her at +10, I'm not sure how well her upgrade will compare to the blade tome I've been having her use but I'm curious to see. It'll probably be nice for Pawns of Loki, at least.

I've also pulled surprisingly large numbers of Ayra and Ishtar somehow, maybe I'll merge the rest if they turn out particularly interesting.

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I figured I would regret making Halloween Nowi a manual. I've gotten two copies of her so far and turned her into fodder when she hit the 5k HM cap and the 6k HM cap a while back. I liked her Prf a lot when it came out, so I'm very curious what the refine will be. I'm hoping to get a free copy of her again.

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Looks like I guessed Ayra and Ishtar as being in the next refine batch. I'm happy to see L'Arachel's Ivaldi finally getting a refine. Hopefully they do something different with it and not make it too similar to Gleipnir. Seeing as they did Lyon this month hopefully Marisa will be next in April.

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On 2/27/2021 at 1:31 AM, Fabulously Olivier said:

So who do we think is up next on weapon refines?

I'm thinking Hector, Lyon, Sothe, and L'Arachel.

 

On 2/27/2021 at 2:27 AM, NSSKG151 said:

I'm guessing Ayra, Ishtar, Lyon and one of Sothe or Helbindi. That's assuming they are still not giving refines to Gen 1 dancers and 3/4 star staff units.

I love how between the two of you you guessed the entire batch minus the random H!Nowi.

On 2/27/2021 at 1:30 PM, Diovani Bressan said:

Lyon's refinement is already a guaranteed one, since that leaked in the music compilation video...

What is this about, if you don't mind me asking? Where in the video does it happen?

Speaking for myself: YES, LYON FINALLY GOT A REFINE!!! And I actually have four of the five Heroes this time (minus Nowi) so I'm looking forward to seeing all of them. Fingers crossed for five great new updates!

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Ayra

Currently has Speed+3 and Flashing Blade. Lakche has Slaying and Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 and Dull with a lenient condition.

I'd like to see her get Holsety's effect and/or Null Follow-Up. However, I think an Evasion effect is more likely since all of the other female Swordmasters from Jugdral have it. Alternatively, Ayra is closely associated with her game's Brave Sword, so it's possible she might get a Brave effect on the condition that she has higher Spd than the opponent.

Halloween Nowi

Currently has Warp Powder. The other units on her banner had Panic Smoke on inheritable weapons.

I could see Blizzard's or Saizo's Star's effects as the refine effect to follow the theme of the other units on her banner. However, I'd like to see something a bit more reliable, like stat boosts or other effects when the opponent has a penalty. I'd like to see her base effect's HP restriction made a bit more lenient, too, considering everyone and their dog has an HP restriction of 25% or higher now. It would at least make her easier to use with Desperation.

Lyon

Currently has Litrraven. Fallen Lyon has Attack+3, Litrraven against ranged opponents, and a ton of damage reduction against ranged opponents.

Naglfar has no effect in its original game besides having infinite durability and the highest Might and Accuracy out of all Dark tomes as well as being 2 Weight lighter than Gleipnir. Gleipnir's only advantage was its Skill+5 boost, which didn't cover the difference in Accuracy, but did boost its Critical... by 2.5%.

I think it would be a pretty cool effect if Naglfar's refine gave it Triangle Adept if the opponent is colorless. For lore, I can see Lyon getting a stat boost if he's within 2 spaces of a Beast or Dragon unit or something to that effect or perhaps just a Form-like effect. (When do we get Dragonzombies in Heroes? I would love to get generic monsters.)

I could also see him getting Warp Powder.

Larchel

Currently has Defense+3 and Atk/Spd+3 when the opponent is at full health. Tome Eirika has Resistance+3 and the same primary effect, which was upgraded to Atk/Spd+4 with the refine, and its refine effect inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-4 on the opponent when they are at full health and nullifies her penalties.

Ivaldi has Defense+5 and effective damage against monsters in its original game, which ironically made it only useful for Valkyries and Sages because it overrode Bishops' Slayer skill's higher effective damage multiplier.

I'm expecting it to get the same upgrade to its base effect as Gleipnir did. While none of the other Sacred Twins have Beast effectiveness in Heroes, I can see them making an exception for Ivaldi, as it is its original game's legendary Light tome, but I still don't find it particularly likely.

However, along that line of thought, I could see it getting a stat boost plus other effects like follow-up prevention or counterattack prevention against Beast opponents, and it would be nice if it also ignored percentage damage reduction in general, though it seriously doesn't help that both Freyja and Fallen Lyon are green.

I'd be a bit disappointed if it got the same refine as Gleipnir, as that would just feel like a cop-out.

Ishtar

Currently has Slaying and Darting Blow 3. Tailtiu has Wrath 3 and Darting Blow 3.

Ishtar has Adept and Vantage in her original game, and Thor Hammer originally has Skill+20 and Spd+10. Ishtar already has Vantage as a default skill in Heroes. Dancer Ishtar's weapon has the Brave effect, which could be a reference to Adept. Thor Hammer in Heroes has the Slaying effect to reference Skill+20 and Darting Blow to reference Spd+10.

So... let's give her Wrath? Or Special Spiral? Or Null Follow-Up? Or Desperation? Or Holsety? Everything can now be Holsety. Sure.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ishtar

Currently has Slaying and Darting Blow 3. Tailtiu has Wrath 3 and Darting Blow 3.

Ishtar has Adept and Vantage in her original game, and Thor Hammer originally has Skill+20 and Spd+10. Ishtar already has Vantage as a default skill in Heroes. Dancer Ishtar's weapon has the Brave effect, which could be a reference to Adept. Thor Hammer in Heroes has the Slaying effect to reference Skill+20 and Darting Blow to reference Spd+10.

So... let's give her Wrath? Or Special Spiral? Or Null Follow-Up? Or Desperation? Or Holsety? Everything can now be Holsety. Sure.

Double Special Spiral would be fun, but the only Special that could use it right now is just Aether, but I do not want my nukes to have high HP.

I guess she can run Close Counter, Miracle, and Mystic Boost on Sacred Seal slot similar to Ares, but that feels more gimmicky than good, although it could be fun.

I am hoping for Brave effect when under 75% HP or something, so she can be like ITM!Lyn and trigger Ruptured Sky twice, or hit people "five" times in a row with a Blazing hit followed by regular quad hits.

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Of course the first seasonal to get a refine is one I don't have. Hopefully I can pull a free one in the inevitable refine banner.

Happy Seasonals are getting the refine treatment, though. Some of them REALLY need it.

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Yeah not really happy about seasonal refines when so many normal units could still use refines.  Also, no new staff refines this update...sigh.  

I guess this pushes Canas back another year.

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1 minute ago, Sayyyaka said:

Yeah not really happy about seasonal refines when so many normal units could still use refines.  Also, no new staff refines this update...sigh.  

I guess this pushes Canas back another year.

Canas isn't pushed back at all. We're continuing the trend of one grail unit per month, which suggests Canas will probably show up around September.

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2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

What is this about, if you don't mind me asking? Where in the video does it happen?

Speaking for myself: YES, LYON FINALLY GOT A REFINE!!! And I actually have four of the five Heroes this time (minus Nowi) so I'm looking forward to seeing all of them. Fingers crossed for five great new updates!

The Music Collection video, at around 56 minutes.

It shows footage of different units during all video, but at Lyon's part it shows him with the purple glow from the refinements, and his Prf tome has brighter colors which they usually get after refined.

Link on the spoilers tab:

Spoiler

 

 

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And again non 5 Star Season 1 Infantry and Cav Healers are left in the dust makeing them obsolete and unusable outside of PVE. Distant Counter weapon users from Season 1 are also left in the dust... yeah i am really not amused anymore how they keep treating those units like shit. I am ok with them giving seasonals with personal weapons a refine, but seriously IS needs to revisit the pace of those refines and consider rerefines on old refines, because i am loosing all interest due to the powercreep that is rendering old units useless even in combat outside of PVE

All new units have 15 more BST at least and an effect on their weapon that gives them another 20 in combat stats makeing the gap 35 just in stats. thats not even considering the 2 effects they run on their weapon simultanously. A maxed merge full Dragon flower book1 unit will match the current unmerged units... in stats that is... I get the they want us to keep pulling but it has gone overboard.

Edited by Hilda

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1 hour ago, Sayyyaka said:

Yeah not really happy about seasonal refines when so many normal units could still use refines.  Also, no new staff refines this update...sigh.  

You know what actually, no I like this new seasonal refines thing. Witchy Nowi was the first Red Tome Flier in the game, and yet here we are 4 years later where she's a joke even compared to summer tana, who was released the summer after. And for years it was always believed that seasonals were just screwed because they were seasonals, and that just isn't fair to someone like me who heavily invested in Witchy Nowi among other seasonals.

So no, I changed my mind MORE SEASONAL REFINES PLEASE.

Also I dont know why you expected Staff refines when currently only 5* exclusive staves have refines in the first place.

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1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

You know what actually, no I like this new seasonal refines thing. Witchy Nowi was the first Red Tome Flier in the game, and yet here we are 4 years later where she's a joke even compared to summer tana, who was released the summer after. And for years it was always believed that seasonals were just screwed because they were seasonals, and that just isn't fair to someone like me who heavily invested in Witchy Nowi among other seasonals.

So no, I changed my mind MORE SEASONAL REFINES PLEASE.

Also I dont know why you expected Staff refines when currently only 5* exclusive staves have refines in the first place.

Just because the only staff refines right now are 5* exclusive doesn't mean lower rarities can't get them.  It's only normal to expect/want them when we previously had zero staff refines.  Also, I'd be more happy with seasonal refines if we were in a timeline where IS weren't so stingy with how many refines they give out per month.  Seasonals do deserve them, but there are still many units that not only are relatively mediocre/bad but are rare because IS refuses to make grails easier to get.  Units like Finn and Canas are in such a senseless situation that it almost feels like IS are actively punishing people who like them.  There are many great grail units nowadays, to focus all your grails on older units that you like means forgoing all of the exciting projects you could be working on to make AR or Arena more fun.  

Sorry, a bit of a tangent, but what I'm saying is the least they could do is give units like this a refine already and stop dragging it out for another year, and pushing them even further back with seasonals doesn't help.  Yes, seasonals absolutely deserve them, but right now I don't even think we're even halfway through Book 2, and Book 1 only just recently finished...for everyone not a DC/healer/dancer anyway.  Rushing refines out for completely outclassed units that aren't too popular won't do anything to harm their bottom line.

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5 minutes ago, Sayyyaka said:

and pushing them even further back with seasonals doesn't help.

They're doing 5 refines this month instead of the usual 4. Halloween Nowi isn't pushing anyone else's refine back.

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Seasonal units getting refines are not pushing any unit further. 

We usually had 4 units getting refines, being 1 Grail unit and 3 main pool units.
Now we're getting 1 Grail unit, 3 main pool units and the seasonal. It's just a bonus refine and, if we were not getting it, we would probably only be getting the usual 4 refines like in the past.

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