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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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19 hours ago, Jotari said:

SInce we've gotten Annette I've really been questioning why they haven't just given us rally movement yet. Giving up one units action to get another unit+1 move isn't the most the broken thing in the world. Giving us pure rally movement would make Annette a bit less special, but she'd still be able to do it better than anyone else by virtue of being able to stack it with another rally. Course that's kind of off topic since this is about refines and not new units who could come with rally move.

That's a good question. As an inheritable assist, it could go to anyone really -- be a good way to sell a unit. On the other hand, if we go with who can learn in the main games, then Rally Movement should be found on Annette whose academy self is in the game and has it through Crusher, Byleth, and any Awakening or Fates Dark Flier, but I think we could extend that to Three Houses or all games, i.e. a Tellius character gets a seasonal Dark Flier alt. By default, the Dark Fliers of the main games are Aversa, Catria through Awakening's Five-Anna Firefight DLC, and Constance. Annette's case was covered, but Aversa and the regular versions of Byleth are in the game, so if it were to be on them, it would have to be through a weapon refinery update or an alt which is probable with legendary Byleth. Excluding the Three Houses leaders and kind of Lysithea who have legendary or CYL alts, timeskip Three Houses characters have yet to be introduced. It will probably happen, but when. Regardless, timeskip Annette could have Rally Movement again which might be likely since only Annette and Byleth can actually learn Rally Movement in Three Houses. Catria's a weird, special case, so that leaves Constance as the only newcomer and even then, it would have to stretch to the idea of any Dark Flier rather than Awakening or Fates Dark Fliers since Three Houses Dark Fliers don't learn Rally Movement.

Sumia can become a Dark Flier and people who want Galeforce would get her and anyone else who can become a Pegasus Knight to level up as a Dark Flier until that point, so they could certainly go wild and give her Rally Movement. I feel like it should be a unique refinement, though. That leaves the base effect of Flower Lance in question where it could be Reprisal Lance with or without a more lenient condition and an additional effect or a different set of effects entirely.

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5 hours ago, Kaden said:

That's a good question. As an inheritable assist, it could go to anyone really -- be a good way to sell a unit. On the other hand, if we go with who can learn in the main games, then Rally Movement should be found on Annette whose academy self is in the game and has it through Crusher, Byleth, and any Awakening or Fates Dark Flier, but I think we could extend that to Three Houses or all games, i.e. a Tellius character gets a seasonal Dark Flier alt. By default, the Dark Fliers of the main games are Aversa, Catria through Awakening's Five-Anna Firefight DLC, and Constance. Annette's case was covered, but Aversa and the regular versions of Byleth are in the game, so if it were to be on them, it would have to be through a weapon refinery update or an alt which is probable with legendary Byleth. Excluding the Three Houses leaders and kind of Lysithea who have legendary or CYL alts, timeskip Three Houses characters have yet to be introduced. It will probably happen, but when. Regardless, timeskip Annette could have Rally Movement again which might be likely since only Annette and Byleth can actually learn Rally Movement in Three Houses. Catria's a weird, special case, so that leaves Constance as the only newcomer and even then, it would have to stretch to the idea of any Dark Flier rather than Awakening or Fates Dark Fliers since Three Houses Dark Fliers don't learn Rally Movement.

Sumia can become a Dark Flier and people who want Galeforce would get her and anyone else who can become a Pegasus Knight to level up as a Dark Flier until that point, so they could certainly go wild and give her Rally Movement. I feel like it should be a unique refinement, though. That leaves the base effect of Flower Lance in question where it could be Reprisal Lance with or without a more lenient condition and an additional effect or a different set of effects entirely.

I don't think they have much need to beholden to who actually has Rally Move in the main series for introducing it on a new unit. Taking a quick look at what units come with Rally Attack I see Lugh, Lute and Selena as the first examples, none of which come from a game with the rally skills at all. So they could throw it on basically anyone. Cynthia or Sumia would have been the most preferable options, but in lieu of them already being in the game and not really being important enough to get in again (unless they want to make it fodder on a Seasonal), I think throwing it on someone like Deen or Alec would be fine.

As for actually giving it to Sumia on her refine, it would be kind of nice to have Annette's effect on a unit who isn't an axe user and a flier to boot would make it more useful, but it wouldn't really gel well with her base kit which is not only built for player phase, but also comes with a Link skill which is for movement assists and not rallies. So it'd be weird if her default weapon encouraged her to use a rally while her default skill encouraged her to use a movement skill. It'd also really be stepping on Annette's toes as a niche unit. Introducing a Rally Move assist would a bit too, but like I said even if we could give Rally Move to anyone, Annette would still have value due to being able to use it in conjunction with another rally skill.

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Wow... okay.

  • Marisa's is not bad at all. In fact they completely forwent the easy path and just put the Wo Dao+Slaying effect in the base weapon. That... actually kinda cheapens what they gave Hauteclere and Shanna's Lance, what the hell? Anyway, refine looks great. Time's Pulse and semi-Swift Sparrow 2.5 is good.
  • Morgan really punishing anyone who dares be anywhere near him. Grima's Truth probably coulda been given Spectrum Smoke and the refine effect and still been good, but this way Morgan at least doesn't need to set up on anyone. Small shame he lost the Smoke effect and support effect...
  • Quan now... just gets +5 Atk/Def if there is an ally like that on the team? Okay. Giving it to those same allies is neat, but... something about this refine feels very underwhelming, not even regarding the fact that he's still not "effective" against fliers. I'm sure he still likes it, but... hm...
  • Sumia is actually insane while still maintaining the Awakening Chapter 3 cutscene moment. She enables WoM play beyond any that has existed in the past. Imagine it, even if her ally isn't that badly hurt she STILL gets it off, and she still gets +9 Atk/Spd and +4 Def/Res (if the enemy is healthy, otherwise just +5 Atk/Spd). AND she gets Canto 2, so she can go even deeper into enemy lines than previously possible.
    I imagine all those one-turn clear Abyssal video posters are frothing at the mouth.
  • Good to see Berserk Armads doing more than just having Wrath. Both Hector and Valentine Hector will appreciate this refine. Weird they'd give him an effect that could potentially hurt him, but as long as he still has that debuff effect I'm sure he'll be fine.
    ...not gonna make me actually use them though. I'm already invested in Halloween Grima as a Green with Special HP Recovery%, but hey Hector will be a MUCH cheaper option in that regard.

So Sumia is the winner here. Marisa is definitely a super close second. I'd say Morgan and Hector are about an even just-as-close 3rd. Quan... I mean, it's just so "not a whole lot added" feeling. But overall a good batch of refines, though I'd say not as insane as Witchy Nowi's refine IMO.

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32 minutes ago, Othin said:

Sumia's looks wild. Interesting that Hector's sort of comes with a downside.

They freaking gave us our second playable Canto unit with Sumia's Flower Lance's unique refinement. When Farina was revealed, I thought that a Lewyn would happen for Sumia where Flower Lance would be similar to Farina's Hotshot Lance like how unique refined Forseti ended up a bit similar to Asbel's Grafcalibur. Well, more of Sumia's Flower Lance would have ended up involving Dragonflowers for its effect like Hotshot Lance. Instead, they her Canto. The other effects of Flower Lance should not be ignored as well where it's simply packed with effects. To me, the best part about Flower Lance is that its base effect feels like a bonus effect to the unique refinement being the meat of Flower Lance. Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 when foe's HP is >= 75% is a freebie compared to Canto, being able to warp to any ally whose HP is <= 80%, so Brazen range, and Swift Sparrow 2.4 that works on enemy phase if she's within 2 spaces of an ally. I say 2.4 since Jill's Talregan Axe is Atk/Spd+6, 1 more attack and speed, when Jill initiates or is within 2 spaces of an ally.

Unless something is missing in the English description, Sumia's Canto has no turn limit unlike with Reginn and for that matter, Fafnir and Otr as their Canto only works on turns 1 to 4. If I am understanding this correctly, an ally at Brazen range can wreck someone, Sumia could warp to their location, Reposition or whatever with her assist to get them out, and then Canto activates allowing Sumia to move again. Dude! The warp effect is in character too! In Awakening, Sumia suddenly flies in to save Chrom. Instant refine with how unique and crazy that the developers decided to give Sumia who is a 4* special rate unit, no longer a 5* exclusive or a recent gen unit, something like this. The only unfortunate thing is that Sumia's base attack is average at best and even with all that attack stacking, she might not have as reliable of an attack stat for Heavy Blade, so that she can Galeforce and Canto like Reginn. Still, pretty freaking awesome.

Funny enough, the developers pulled another similar stats thing, but not completely like back then where Barst, Jakob, Laslow, and F!Morgan all had effects involving Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 and only Laslow's was to give others +4 to their stats rather than himself. Anyway, part of Marisa's unique refinement for Shamshir is the same Swift Sparrow 2.4 that unique refined Flower Lance has. Shamshir at base is unique refined Hauteclere, Nameless Blade, and Shanna's Lance, but deals 7 damage instead of 10 when triggering a special. That's something I would like to touch upon later. The unique refinement has a second effect which is listed first and it's straight-up Time's Pulse 3. Unique refined Shamshir is like a mix of unique refined Nameless Blade and unique refined Scarlet Sword where instead of dealing 10 damage when triggering a special and having Quickened Pulse 2, so special cooldown count-2 at start of turn 1, it deals 7 damage and grants special cooldown count-1 if her special is at its maximum value at the start of all her turns. That is wild. Time's Pulse 3 as a skill should stack, so Marisa can have charged 3 cooldown specials in a weird way, though since if she doesn't one shot someone or end up with 3 cooldown on her special after a fight, Time's Pulse won't work. The unique refinement Time's Pulse would let her set up Special Spiral for a 2 cooldown special, but that might be wasted. Not that great. On the other hand, Wrath will work when her HP is <= 75% and that might be better where she can still get special cooldown count-1 either through her Shamshir's Time's Pulse or Wrath or special cooldown count-2 if she fulfills both conditions.

I fee like with Flower Lance, part of Shamshir's base effect feels like a bonus and that is the deals 7 damage when triggering a special part. Shamshir having a Killer effect and Time's Pulse is huge. Not as huge as "Accelerate Special trigger (special cooldown count-2)", but still huge. With just her unique refined Shamshir, Marisa would be able to have a 3 cooldown Galeforce. It would be selfish, but with Time's Pulse as a her C passive, then she would have a 2 cooldown Galeforce. She just needs to hit twice to charge Galeforce and if she has a blade effect of some kind, then only once. Guard effects will impede her as they do for almost everyone, but she could be a good Galeforce sword infantry.

Before moving on to something that will touch on Nameless Blade, I will say this was an instant refine as well. I like Marisa, I was holding out for her to be part of an update, and hoping that she ends up with something decent. This is more than decent.

10 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

That... actually kinda cheapens what they gave Hauteclere and Shanna's Lance, what the hell?

I had typed up, but deleted thought dumps on ideas for Marisa's Shamshir and Sumia's Flower Lance with some concerns for both. For Marisa, I felt like there were multiple ways for them to be lazy and copy, paste weapons from others and not only could it be bad for her, it could be bad for the characters with those weapons. In this case, it was the latter.

The unoriginal give her Hauteclere, Nameless Blade, and Shanna's Lance would have resulted in Marisa being Karel with more defense. That's it. Karel arguably has worse offenses than Ogma as he traded attack for resistance. Well, now there is the choice of spend grails and feathers or spend orbs and deal with lower BST. That is if unique refined Shamshir was an exact copy of unique refined Nameless Blade. If Shamshir at base was the same as unique refined Nameless Blade, then that would be insulting to Fir and Karel even though Fir at least has a different stat spread than Karel and Marisa. This could be extended to Athena, Lon'qu, and so on where for Athena and Lon'qu, Marisa is not a +Atk, -Spd version of them like how Linus is to Raven, so an exact copy of their weapons after the unique refinement would have resulted in Marisa being pretty much worse than them, but at base, it would be upsetting to fans of those characters since even if, say, Shamshir were unique refined Solitary Blade and its unique refinement was Panic Ploy, it still means Marisa has an extra thing, however great or underwhelming.

+7 damage instead of +10 doesn't matter when what happened is that Shamshir at base is unique refined Nameless Blade. Fir's and Karel's shtick is special spamming where back then with Wrath or after it was introduced, Time's Pulse, they are able to have charged 2 cooldown specials. Now, they can have both to have charged 3 cooldown specials. Marisa with unique refined Shamshir can have charged 2 cooldown specials or with Wrath or Time's Pulse, 3 cooldown specials and an open B or C passive allowing her to run Null Follow-Up, a speed check damage reduction with enough speed stacking, Pulse Smoke, Vantage, etc. And all in return for 3 less damage.

The best part? We have an inkling of what Karla's Vassal's Blade may end up with through flying Nino and that is deals damage = 20% of unit's speed for the upgraded base effect. If that happens, then Karla will deal more damage per hit than Marisa; Karla would deal 8 damage per hit with her 40 base neutral speed. There's not stopping them from giving Karla Time's Pulse 3 if they wanted, but I digress.

Moving onto the remaining three units, regular and LA Hector I get what they are trying to do with Berserk Armads's unique refinement healing him. Vantage would be the simple, let chaos begin answer, but it gets checked by Hardy Bearing and even with WTA, Hector's resistance isn't that great where New Year's Alfonse & Sharena and Ophelia would be able to tear through his HP and finish him off let alone those who are neutral or have WTA against him. So, they decided that he should restore 30% of his maximum HP back when triggering a special which could allow him to simply endure. For regular Hector, 30% of his 55 HP (52 base + 3 unique refinement) would be 16 HP restored and if the player has his resplendent form, 30% of his 57 HP would be 17 HP. For LA Hector, 30% of his 53 HP would be 15 HP restored. Helping that is the first part which inflicts Atk/Def-5 if his foe initiates or his foe's HP = 100% which with his default Distant Counter makes it like a more defensive Ostian Counter since he doesn't actually boost his own attack or defense, but it is effectively Atk/Def/Res+5 for him. I don't have LA Hector and I don't really want to get Berserk Armads for regular Hector especially after just spending 400 Divine Dew for Sumia and Marisa.

M!Morgan just gets Atk/Spd/Def+5 on his own by existing with the upgraded base effect. Dulls and Lulls exist and Azelle and Freyja will happily turn his buffs around, but that's pretty funny. The other part of it is a 4 spaces Threaten like New Year's Gunnthra's Hikami. Neat and it makes him a great ally for debuff orientated units like regular Gunnthra, Matthew, and Ursula, but probably not as good as Arvis and Saias with their ridiculous range. The unique refinement is the same further debuff a foe's stats effect that the Plegian Festival -- how fitting -- introduced, but instead of activating when the user is not adjacent to anyone and starting with -5, it activates when M!Morgan's HP is >= 25% and starts with -4. I get that each point matters, but it's still weird that they don't make it the same as recent units. Marisa and Sumia would be so scary if they had Swift Sparrow 2.5 like Jill instead of 2.4 or M!Morgan debuffs starting with -5 just by existing compared to Plegian Katarina who has to not be adjacent to anyone. Whatever. Overall, neat, but I don't think I will refine his tome yet.

Quan is the weird one. It works, but it's weird. Quan can get up to Atk/Def+10 if he's fighting specific types of foes while having at least one of types of units on his team and he can grant Atk/Def+5 to those specific types of units if they are within 3 spaces of him. I feel like Abel and Cain benefited more from this than Quan himself. Abel's and Cain's weapons have Atk/Def Form 2.9 (up to +6 instead of +7 like the Form skills later introduced) and allow them to Brave if they initiate while being within 2 spaces of a cavalry ally who uses a sword, lance, or axe. Guess what Quan is and what unique refined Gae Bolg does? Abel and Cain are going to be even better against Rokkrs with Quan, but that requires summoning him and refining Gae Bolg. Man, Eldigan and Sigurd got off so much better than Quan. Eldigan can choose between Fury stacking or Special Spiral and Dark Mystletainn will eventually be up for refining while Sigurd's unique refined Divine Tyrfing is simply stupid.

58 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

But overall a good batch of refines, though I'd say not as insane as Witchy Nowi's refine IMO.

Canto and unless it's incorrect, Canto that works on all turns. That's wild. Her movement effect is more restrictive in that it relies on her foes being within a certain HP range rather than being within 2 spaces, but Sumia can warp to anyone wherever they are and emphasis on anyone since Lilith is restricted to only her support partner.

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I'm very happy that they reworked Grimas' Truth base effect. A 4 range threaten of the 3 stats he needs is amazing. The Plegian Torch effect is the cherry on top, definitely going to be able to use him in AR offense now.

Sumia's lance is an amazing reference to chapter 3 and Awakening's Galeforce!

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I like what they gave Marisa. I used to just have her set up Galeforce clears with Infantry Pulse and now it looks like she is able to set herself up for Galeforce instead. There's a lot of builds I would like to try with her. I thought they couldn't do anything unique with Sumia but they proved me wrong here. She looks like she could do some fun Galeforce shenanigans with her prf weapon. Now if only I had some Galeforce fodder for these ladies.

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Gáe Bolg's refine, thematically, is pretty much perfect.  Quan is the King of Bros.  He rode across countries immediately after hearing Sigurd was in trouble, he stuck with him until he literally had to go back home, and then showed up again to support his dear friend in the Battle of Belhalla.  He's also a really great support unit, hitting enemies hard but not doubling, or tanking hits in the same fashion to let weaker allies KO them for exp.  

But why couldn't they have given Gáe Bolg an extra effect like "Prevent follow-up if Unit's spd > foe's spd -10" or something to play into Steady Posture.  It's a Holy Weapon and deserves more. Oh well.  I still like the effect and will enjoy boosting Lex's atk and def into the sun.

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Marisa

Well, that's certainly one way to make both Fir and Karel obsolete.

The base weapon effect is Slaying Edge plus a 7-damage Wo Dao effect. The refine effect is Time's Pulse plus +5 Atk/Spd with a Blow or Unity condition.

Time's Pulse on her weapon means she can run a second Time's Pulse on her C slot, allowing her to fully charge Luna at the start of every turn. Alternatively, it lets her start with Galeforce at 2 cooldown, which can be nice for Galeforce strategies.

 

Cuan

The base weapon effect is unchanged. The refine effect grants +5 Atk/Def to sword, lance, axe, and cavalry allies within 3 spaces and grants Cuan +5 Atk/Def if there is at least one other sword, lance, axe, or cavalry ally on his team.

This gives Cuan 63 Atk and 41 Def when both conditions are met. His primary competition, however, is Duessel, who has 61 Atk and 45 Def and has his B slot open to run Lull Atk/Def due to not needing Quick Riposte. However, Duessel also has 37 Res, in stark contrast to Cuan's 16, which is the lowest of all lance cavalry in the game. Cuan also has to compete against Fallen Berkut, who only has 51 Atk and 35 Def, but has 30 Res and a Distant Counter weapon that blocks follow-ups.

The support effect is at least pretty good, though I'm not sure the increased range balances out the weaker effect and team composition restrictions compared to the support effects on Brave Veronica's, Halloween Nowi's, and Kinshi HInoka's weapons. But it's pretty obvious they really want you to use him with Sigurd and Eldigan.

Cuan is what you get when you compress two really good units with completely different roles into one unit, but fail to actually compress and end up losing half of each unit in the process.

 

Morgan

That's much, much better.

Retains only the +3 Def from the original weapon's base effect. The new base effect is Hikami's effect with the stats changed to -5 Atk/Spd/Res plus a self buff of +5 Atk/Spd/Res if the debuff activates. Note: There is a translation error. The buff only occurs if there is an enemy in range of the debuff. The refine effect is a combat debuff of 4 to all enemy stats on top of Penalty Doubler, both if Morgan's HP is 25% or higher at the start of combat.

Hikami's targeting is a bit iffy since it's not consistent, but it's way better than what he previously had, and he'll work extremely well on any debuff-centered team. It's worth noting that if the opponent has a Unity skill, the combination of Unity and Grima's Truth results in -x from the penalty, 5 + 2x from Unity, and -4 − x from Grima's Truth for a total of only +1, essentially almost completely nullifying the Unity effect.

Morgan looks like a prime contender for running Bonus Doubler.

 

Sumia

The base effect gives +4 to all stats of the opponent's HP is 75% or higher. The refine effect is Canto (2), Wings of Mercy with an 80% HP threshold, and +5 Atk/Spd with a Blow or Unity condition.

Her mobility is amazing, and her combat performance is on par with the best player-phase lance fliers that aren't Ferry or Palla.

Sumia has 55/49 offenses plus mobility. Tsubasa has 54/49 offenses plus effective damage. Seteth has 56/43 offenses, nullifies enemy bonuses to Atk and Spd (so effectively 56/49 against a buffed opponent), and has Goad Everything. Resplendent Cordelia has 51/39 offenses with a Brave weapon.

 

Valentine Hector

Nope.

Inflicts a combat debuff to the opponent of -5 Atk/Def on enemy phase or if the opponent's HP is 100%. Grants a 30% version of Wind Parthia's healing effect on offensive Special activation.

The healing is a deal-breaker for both of Hector's standard builds, as it prevents Vantage and Wrath from activating after the first round of combat, and the Atk debuff makes it more difficult for Hector to activate Vantage and Wrath in the first place. This refine was clearly designed with Wary Fighter in mind, but there's no reason to run Wary Fighter when better skills for him exist.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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Oh Canto, nice. I guess we should have been expecting that since it's been in the game for a while now. I reckon we'll be seeing a lot more of it from here on out. Though I'm a little surprised they gave it to Sumia over Cuan, when he's the one who's actually in a game with Canto. But I suppose they wanted to give us a canto flier since we already have a Canto cavalry.

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Sumia looks pretty crazy. Marisa is pretty good too. M!Morgan is decent.

Really disappointed with LA!Hector and Quan though. I guess you can always stick with Atk Refine for LA!Hector if you want consistency for Wrath; if using his Refine, you basically have to give up on Wrath. Quan's Refine is just underwhelming, as it is underpowered as a support Weapon (less support than M!Corrin and BH!Lucina for most super tanks, and less support than Mathilda/Clive for cavalry super tanks), and without some form of guaranteed follow up, it is very unappealing compared to Duessel and LL!Ephraim.

Edited by XRay

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Hector got a pretty nice refinement... Which I wish it was for OG Armads and not Berserk Armads. The healing doesn't go well with Wrath at all. Meanwhile, the healing would help OG Armads to keep the QR effect, which I would expect a boost for the refinement.

At least they should have updated the base effect of Berserk Armads...

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Quan's refine... sigh, it woulda been better if they just made it possible to Evolve into Earthly Gae Bolg. Even my +Atk +10 Quan won't be able to out-defense Altena with this refine, and she's not even merged.

There is seriously something wrong when the refine for a 5* locked unit (who isn't even out of the New Heroes 5* pool yet I'd like to add, so we can still be pity broken by Quan) still doesn't make them much better than Altena, a 3*/4* unit who can very easily be merged up and easily outdo Quan. Sure there's a supportive element, but it's not even that amazing a boost, it just has a good reach. The one unit who would have appreciated it, Marianne, can't even benefit from it.

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Well, that's certainly one way to make both Fir and Karel obsolete.

Fir at least has her resistance. At this point, Fates Selena could probably do magic tanking like Fir with how easy it is for her to get stats from having lower attack than her foes, but not be able to fire off as many specials since she can't have Killer and Time's Pulse together in return for effective damage against armors.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Note: There is a translation error. The buff only occurs if there is an enemy in range of the debuff.

By going with the syntax I think is the right word here used in the English descriptions, should it be: "At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Res-5 on nearest foes within 4 spaces through their next actions, and also grants Atk/Spd/Res+5 to unit for 1 turn"? I don't think there is an "if a foe has been inflicted with a penalty" or a general if successful statement both of which they could use. I wonder how the description will be corrected if at all considering Gaius does deal damage equal to 10% of his speed, but it still says boosts to this day.

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

The one unit who would have appreciated it, Marianne, can't even benefit from it.

Hey now, man's married and devoted to his lovely wife... only when she's on a horse.

Meanwhile, his wife when she's wielding a deadly fan, but not on a horse, his best friend's wife, his best friend's wife's second husband, son, step-son, and daughter, his best friend's sister, and himself all gussied up and with a bow.

Also, another funny thing is that he makes Travant stronger since he qualifies as a lance user. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

Something else is does it seem like there is a double space before and after the movement amount in "unit can move X space(s)" description under the [Canto(X)] part of Flower Lance and Lyngheidr?

Edited by Kaden

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I just tested my budget +10 Morgan to AR and Arena. It's a harder to set up in Arena than in AR due to team composition, lull skill and likes of Dagr and Fallen Ike also cancels out his penalty doubler, but when it does get full force -19 though my boy can tank so many hit with Mystic Boost. I am happy with his refine but he is gonna need some really premium skills (which I don't have) to shine.

Flower Lance is really surprising, if only she is more common. I pulled so many blues recently and she never pity breaks me. Sharing same colour with Quan on the new power banner though decreases my incentive to pull for blue.

9 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Marisa's is not bad at all. In fact they completely forwent the easy path and just put the Wo Dao+Slaying effect in the base weapon. That... actually kinda cheapens what they gave Hauteclere and Shanna's Lance, what the hell? Anyway, refine looks great. Time's Pulse and semi-Swift Sparrow 2.5 is good.

To be fair that was during super early stage of weapon refine batch, many of the refines are outdated by now and we are only in 2nd gen refine. 

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1 hour ago, Kaden said:

By going with the syntax I think is the right word here used in the English descriptions, should it be: "At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Res-5 on nearest foes within 4 spaces through their next actions, and also grants Atk/Spd/Res+5 to unit for 1 turn"? I don't think there is an "if a foe has been inflicted with a penalty" or a general if successful statement both of which they could use. I wonder how the description will be corrected if at all considering Gaius does deal damage equal to 10% of his speed, but it still says boosts to this day.

It should be worded like this:

At start of turn, if unit is within 4 spaces of a foe, inflicts Atk/Spd/Res-5 on nearest foes through their next actions and grants Atk/Spd/Res+5 to unit for 1 turn.

 

The problem is that they based the wording of the effect description on the description of Hikami instead of the description of the tier 4 Threaten skills, which it is more similar to.

In Japanese, the effect descriptions are as follows, translated as literally as possible without butchering the resulting English. There is somehow absolutely no consistency:

Spoiler

Grima's Truth:

ターン開始時、周囲4マス以内に敵がいる時、
最も近い敵の
攻撃、速さ、魔防-5(敵の次回移動終了まで)、かつ
自身の攻撃、速さ、魔防+5(1ターン)

At start of turn, if there is a foe within 4 spaces,
the closest foes'
Atk, Spd, Res −5 (through foes' next actions), and
own Atk, Spd, Res +5 (1 turn)

TL note: This description uses 自身 (jishin, "self") instead of 自分 (jibun, "self') which is normally used for the self-buff for who knows what reason.

Threaten Atk/Spd 3:

ターン開始時、周囲2マス以内に敵がいる場合、
自分の攻撃、速さ+5(1ターン)、かつ
周囲2マス以内の敵の攻撃、速さ-5
(敵の次回移動終了まで)

At start of turn, if there is a foe within 2 spaces,
own Atk, Spd +5 (1 turn), and
foes-within-2-spaces' Atk, Spd −5
(through foes' next actions)

TL note: This description uses 場合 (baai, "situation") instead of 時 (toki, "time") which is normally used for the "if" condition for who knows what reason.

Random note: "Foes-within-2-spaces'" is, in fact, the correct possessive form of "foes-within-2-spaces".

Hikami:

ターン開始時、周囲4マス以内にいる、最も近い敵の
攻撃、速さ、守備、魔防-4(敵の次回移動終了まで)

At start of turn, within 4 spaces, the closest foes'
Atk, Spd, Def, Res −4 (through foes' next actions)

 

Edited by Ice Dragon

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29 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Did Intsys forget that Quan is still in the 5* pool? 

To be fair, the only unit he strictly loses out against is Duessel. The problem is just that Cuan is too specialized and still loses to Duessel in that specialization despite the fact that Duessel is a generalist unit. His specialization makes him significantly better than Legendary Ephraim, Dimitri, Fallen Berkut, Sirius, and Perceval in his particular role, but the others have other roles they can perform that are more relevant.

 

But hey, at least it's better than Hector's refine, which somehow managed to have both of its new effects be detrimental to the weapon. They should have made it heal 30-40% on Special activation and then deal 30% to himself after combat if his Special activated.

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3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

But hey, at least it's better than Hector's refine, which somehow managed to have both of its new effects be detrimental to the weapon. They should have made it heal 30-40% on Special activation and then deal 30% to himself after combat if his Special activated.

I think if they removed Wrath's HP requirement when they put the new Refine effect in, he would have been totally fine. With stuff like Flower Hauteclere and Loyalist Axe, free Quickened Pulse at start of every turn and Wo effect is not that broken in my opinion.

Edited by XRay

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21 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think if they removed Wrath's HP requirement when they put the new Refine effect in, he would have been totally fine. With stuff like Flower Hauteclere and Loyalist Axe, free Quickened Pulse at start of every turn and Wo effect is not that broken in my opinion.

The problem is that he still wouldn't be able to run Wrath in the B slot, which still forces the double Wrath build to run the Atk refine instead of the unique refine.

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12 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It should be worded like this:

At start of turn, if unit is within 4 spaces of a foe, inflicts Atk/Spd/Res-5 on nearest foes through their next actions and grants Atk/Spd/Res+5 to unit for 1 turn.

The problem is that they based the wording of the effect description on the description of Hikami instead of the description of the tier 4 Threaten skills, which it is more similar to.

That makes sense. I forgot about the wording of the tier 4 Threaten skills. I only have CYL Alm who has it by default and never really checked it or bothered to remember it. Looking at the English description of the tier 4 Threaten skills, it would be like how you worded upgraded base effect of Grima's Truth, but the bonus for M!Morgan first and then the penalty for the nearest foes. So: "At start of turn, if unit is within 4 spaces of a foe, grants Atk/Spd/Res+5 to unit for 1 turn and inflicts Atk/Spd/Res-5 on nearest foes through their next actions."

On the subject of Berserk Armads, it feels like they mixed up part of the unique refinement effects for Berserk Armads and Shamshir; unique refined Berserk Armads was supposed to have Time's Pulse 3 while unique refined Shamshir was supposed to have the restore 30% of the unit's maximum HP. Time's Pulse would have allowed Hector to set up double Wrath charged Bonfire or Ignis if he could manage to fire it off in a round of combat. Previously, he would have to rely on Quickened Pulse, being on an Ostia's Pulse team, or being nearby CYL Lucina or someone else who can provide a breath effect. Although the attack debuff would still hinder him from getting into Wrath range as easily before, it would be terrifying, especially with double Wrath charged Ignis and would be "fitting" for a previously 5* exclusive unit and a 5* seasonal.

Shamshir on the other hand would have ended up as a probably crappier Wind Parthia as it would be missing Def/Res+5 and would restore 20% less of her maximum HP in return for dealing 7 damage when triggering a special. It would still be potent and Marisa would have access to Lulls, Null C-Disrupt, Null Follow-Up, Special Spiral, Wrath, and speed check damage reduction skills where B passives in general are an issue for fliers along with being able to run Time's Pulse to have charged Glimmer, Moonbow, Noontime, or Ruptured Sky or 1 cooldown Bonfire, Luna, or Sol if she starts a turn with them at their maximum cooldown. The thing is that Marisa's HP is her standout stat for better or worse and having an effect that restores 30% to 50% of her maximum HP would be pretty damn good.

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is that he still wouldn't be able to run Wrath in the B slot, which still forces the double Wrath build to run the Atk refine instead of the unique refine.

I guess we will have to wait for Wrath 4 with no HP requirement.

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So here's my top 10 refine wish list (books 1-2):

 

1. OG Hector's Armads

2. Sothe

3. Legault

4. Finn

5. Kaze

6. Azura

7. Jamke

8. Libra

9. Lucius

10. Ninian

 

 

(Of course I'm really anticipating Book 3. Which could come sooner than one thinks since vast swathes of Book 2 are already done. Justice for Haar and Cormag!)

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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