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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
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I wish they gave Siegfried Slaying effect on top. Now he has the same combat order as Spd tanks, so he cannot run a stronger Special like he used to. Slaying effect allows him to keeping running Bonfire instead of Moonbow for better damage. A slot Breath effect would be an even better alternative so he can run Ignis.

Everyone else is pretty decent.

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Just now, Rinco said:

Altina is looking at her swords and wondering why she doesn't have -2 CD, +6 HP and +8 to all stats when above 25% HP.

Twin-Blades on every hit sounds nice.

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Old Legendary Heroes are each getting an upgrade to their exclusive skill and one new skill (either an upgrade of a skill they already have or a completely brand new skill) to allow them to catch up to more recent Legendary Heroes. Ike and Fjorm got their Legendary Hero Remix upgrades in February, and Ryoma and Gunnthra got them this time. If they keep the interval the same, we should be getting the next set in the August update. I'm hoping for Grima and Lyn.

We had a speculation thread for the system back when it was first announced:

 

Oh wow. I'm out of the loop. I didn't know Fjorm or Ike already got this. I hope they extend it beyond legendary heroes though, as there's a lot of characters with underwhelming refines or are missing vital aspects of their character and just a tonne of greil units in general that could make use of new skills.

Edited by Jotari
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Raijinto > Siegfried > Ragondite > Gradivus IMO.

I know half is from his fancy new kit, but L!Ryoma is going to be nuts. DC, NFU, spectrum buffs, +7 true damage, DR, and effective +4 spd/def/res. All he needs is an A slot upgrade. Normal Ryoma can now be a diet DC Mareeta which is pretty cool. The open A slot makes up for the speed diff and somewhat the lack of slaying effect.

Siegfried isn't anything special, but it does what Xander needed. Keeps him from dying and helps his damage output. If you really wanted to, you could even force his res to be somewhat worthwhile. Not good, but 35 res is decent enough when not getting doubled.

Zelg and BK get 2CD BL, L!Ike gets 1CD RA, and Ike becomes old L!Ike. Nothing gamebreaking, but makes them stand out a bit more.

Hardin can worry more about his attack than his survival now, which helps him. Camus still feels underwhelming. The biggest thing he has going for him is innate DC, but Duessel, Petrine, and Perceval all still seem like they'd still be better. His only real advantage over the latter two is better def (35 vs 30/32), but his res is still pretty meh and his speed is worse. For PP, Sirius also does the same thing with more stats and even Dmitri can be a decent substitue, even if his weapon is a bit awkward in this day and age. Neither is bad. They just feel like they still fail to stand out from pretty saturated pools.

Spoiler

At least Camus is way better than Orson.

 

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Ryoma won big from the refine update -- getting DC and NFU on one weapon is insane. Same with Legendary Ryoma (gets DC, NFU, Dodge, and Iote's Shield between his weapon and B-skill) though Chrom (especially one with Deadeye) still rules Water season with an iron fist (and Dimitri can still be a problem, I guess).

Ike and BK's refines are boring but they help out -- extra stats to catch up with the competition and the cooldown acceleration allows them to easily proc their signature specials assuming they got some premium stuff to work with. (ie. Ike with Breath and Special Spiral; BK with Special Fighter).

Hardin gets more out of the Gradivus refine than Camus does, though Camus could make the refine work (I guess with something like Mirror Stance 3 and Lull Atk/Def or Lull Atk/Spd).

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9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

If they keep the interval the same, we should be getting the next set in the August update. I'm hoping for Grima and Lyn.

Actually, the next Remix Banner is in July.

For now, it has Ike, Fjorm and Lyn confirmed to it. In my opinion, Lyn is guaranteed to get remix there. I also expect Grima to reappear in July's banner, and get her remix there too. Honestly, since Grima is the only 2018's Colorless legendary, I expect her to ppear in every Remix banner... at least until we get Eir and/or Alm in those banner.

Hector is confirmed to appear in September's Remix banner, so I can see Hector and Ephraim in September.

wpqngLz.png

According to the Legendary/Mythic Banner calendar, Marth and Tiki are scheduled for November's Mythics Banner, and Eirika and Lucina are scheduled for January's Mythic Banner... I believe they will not appear in the normal Legendary and Mythics banner... and will appear in Remix banners instead.

So I am predicting Marth and Tiki getting remix in November, and for January's Remix banner we will have Lucina and Eirika.

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Actually, the next Remix Banner is in July.

For now, it has Ike, Fjorm and Lyn confirmed to it. In my opinion, Lyn is guaranteed to get remix there. I also expect Grima to reappear in July's banner, and get her remix there too. Honestly, since Grima is the only 2018's Colorless legendary, I expect her to ppear in every Remix banner... at least until we get Eir and/or Alm in those banner.

Hector is confirmed to appear in September's Remix banner, so I can see Hector and Ephraim in September.

wpqngLz.png

According to the Legendary/Mythic Banner calendar, Marth and Tiki are scheduled for November's Mythics Banner, and Eirika and Lucina are scheduled for January's Mythic Banner... I believe they will not appear in the normal Legendary and Mythics banner... and will appear in Remix banners instead.

So I am predicting Marth and Tiki getting remix in November, and for January's Remix banner we will have Lucina and Eirika.

Good catches, that seems pretty compelling. I wonder if we can expect them to be a regular every two months thing.

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

Good catches, that seems pretty compelling. I wonder if we can expect them to be a regular every two months thing.

The first Remix banner was in February, but we also had a Double Special there. If we kept having a Remix banner every two months starting on February, we would have two similar banners in every Even numbered month.

I think because of that, IS decided to make a 3 months gap between the first Remix and the second one, so now we can have Remix Banners in Odd numbered months, and Double Special in Even numbered months... so we have a 8-heroes banner every month: one has Legendary Heroes with Remix treatment, and the other with seasonal heroes.

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1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

The first Remix banner was in February, but we also had a Double Special there. If we kept having a Remix banner every two months starting on February, we would have two similar banners in every Even numbered month.

I think because of that, IS decided to make a 3 months gap between the first Remix and the second one, so now we can have Remix Banners in Odd numbered months, and Double Special in Even numbered months... so we have a 8-heroes banner every month: one has Legendary Heroes with Remix treatment, and the other with seasonal heroes.

Seems reasonable. What's odd is that that schedule has the Remix banners line up with the New Hero Revivals, and those are both spark banners. So each month gets one 8-character banner, but odd months get three sparks while even months only get one.

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Legendary Ryoma is the definitely winner here. The refines for Ragnell/Alondite, Gradivus, and Siegfried are all fine, but nothing groundbreaking or anything. They're fine and useful enough. I'm definitely getting Legendary Ryoma's refine, and then Black Knight's and Legendary Ike's, since I use them often enough.

Perhaps the next batch will finally give us a refine for dancers, like Ninian.

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50 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

You know the game is powercrept when refines as good as Siegfried and Gradivus are seen as disappointing. These are weapons with built-in distant counter, and extra hp, and multiple decent bonus effects. It's a real gauge of how fucked the game has become.

Gradivus is alright. It is not bonkers, but I do not think it is disappointing.

As for Siegfried, it is not bad, but my main beef with it is that it screws up Xander's Special trigger. As a slow tank, Xander does not really mind getting doubled, and getting doubled is arguably preferred to trigger a stronger Special. If it came with a Slaying effect and/or A slot Breath effect, then I would not really mind the Wary Fighter effect. Other than that, it is a decent Weapon, you just have to downgrade the Special to Moonbow or Ruptured Sky, and the Def debuff on enemies somewhat offsets the lower damage output.

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Saber is the Luke to PoR Ike, vanguard Ike, and regular Ryoma's Meisterhardt now. Not as bad since Luke's unique refined Rowdy Sword requiring his foes to not have any bonuses is not as simple as be or have a foe's HP be at a specific range or simply initiate that other prf Brave weapons require to activate their usually attack boosting effect.

Unique refined Golden Dagger is a prf Killing Edge with a conditional Distant Counter and what do all recent weapons that became available for refinement have? Unconditional Distant Counter. By unconditional, I mean the unit just needs to be alive for it to work. In particular, unique refined Ragnell becomes a prf Killing Edge with an unconditional Distant Counter.

Saber has 43 HP, 47 Atk, 33 Spd, 32 Def, and 22 Res with unique refined Golden Dagger equipped. Unique refined Golden Dagger requires his special to be charged at the start of combat to provide him Distant Counter and Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 which puts him at 50 Atk, 36 Spd, 35 Def, and 25 Res. Otherwise, he simply has a prf Killing Edge.4

PoR Ike has 45 HP, 51 Atk, 31 Spd, 32 Def, and 18 Res with unique refined Ragnell equipped. Compared to Saber when his special is not charged, +2 HP, +4 Atk, -2 Spd, and -4 Res, and +2 HP, +1 Atk, -5 Spd, -3 Def, and -7 Res if Saber's special is charged. As noted before, unique refined Ragnell is is a prf Killing Edge with an unconditional Distant Counter. It's other effect gives him Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 if his HP is >= 25% which would be > 11 HP as 25% of 45 is 11.25. That would put him at 55 Atk, 35 Spd, 36 Spd, and 22 Res. Compared to Saber when his special is charged, +5 Atk, -1 Spd, +1 Def, and -3 Res.

For those who have a resplendent PoR Ike, then he has 47 HP, 53 Atk, 33 Spd, 34 Def, and 20 Res with unique refined Ragnell equipped. Compared to Saber when his special is not charged, +4 HP, +6 Atk, +2 Def, and -2 Res, and +4 HP, +3 Atk, -3 Spd, -1 Def, and -2 Res when his special is charged. When PoR Ike's HP is >= 25%, > 11 HP, then he will have 57 Atk, 37 Spd, 38 Def, and 24 Res. Compared to Saber when his special is charged, +7 Atk, +1 Spd, +3 Def, and -1 Res.

Without resplendent, PoR Ike loses in speed by 1 point and resistance by 3 points where granted, both of their resistance aren't great. With resplendent, PoR Ike is simply better. It's unfair since Saber does not have a resplendent yet or maybe forever, but regardless, PoR Ike's advantage is having an unconditional Distant Counter or that the Distant Counter and stat boosts effects are not tied together. Saber needs to keep his special charged against every fight to have Distant Counter and Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 whereas Ike only loses out on the stat boosts if he falls out of a generous HP range.

Vanguard Ike has 44 HP, 52 Atk, 30 Spd, 35 Def, and 21 Res with unique refined Ragnell equipped. Compared to Saber when his special is not charged, +1 HP, +5 Atk, -3 Spd, +3 Def, and -1 Res, and when his special is charged, +1 HP, +2 Atk, -6 Spd, and -4 Res. When vanguard Ike's HP is >= 25%, >= 11 HP, then he will have 56 Atk, 34 Spd, 39 Def, and 25 Res. Compared to Saber when his special is charged, +6 Atk, -2 Spd, and +4 Def. Vanguard Ike is a different unit compared to his younger self and Saber as a slower, but physically bulkier sword infantry. He mainly loses out on speed compared to Saber, but hits harder, has higher defense, and matches Saber's resistance when their weapon's stat boost effect is active. The funny thing is that vanguard Ike, especially after the remix gave him Radiant Aether II with its Quickened Pulse 2 effect, can find it easier to set up a charged special on turn 1 and also maintain the HP threshold with Radiant Aether on retaliation. Saber requires help from things like Infantry or Ostia's Pulse or has to run his default Shield Pulse 3 and run a defensive special costing him damage or sustain to have a special charged on turn 1. Both can run Special Spiral well where it allows vanguard Ike to proc Radiant Aether more often and it makes it easier for Saber to fulfill unique refined Golden Dagger's condition with a special like Luna or Sol.

Unique refined Raijinto does not have a Killer effect, so it's not as comparable to unique refined Golden Dagger, but regular Ryoma's stats makes him Saber with less defense for more attack and speed. With unique refined Raijinto, regular Ryoma has 44 HP, 50 Atk, 35 Spd, 27 Def, and 21 Res. Compared to Saber when his special is not charged, +1 HP, +3 Atk, +2 Spd, -5 Def, and -1 Res, and when his special is charged, +1 HP, -1 Spd, -8 Def, and -4 Res. Raijinto's unique refinement gives Ryoma Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 and Null Follow-Up if he initiates combat or he is within 2 spaces of an ally which puts him in a more offensive role by player phasing and not getting anything from its Distant Counter or relies on positioning for enemy phase. With its unique refinement active, regular Ryoma will have 54 Atk, 39 Spd, 31 Def, and 25 Res. Compared to Saber with his special charged, +4 Atk, +3 Spd, and -4 Def.

It is not surprising recent weapon refines are more powerful, flexible, practical, or just jam-packed with effects than old weapon and their refinements. It is also not surprising since these are legendary weapons to a valuable dagger Celica kept which granted can be forged into the Beloved Zofia. Or at least, they seem like legendary weapons compared to the older ones and their refinements -- looking at you Archanea Falchion, Fujin Yumi, and Parthia.

With this update, I am wondering if this will open the floodgates for future units to have weapons with an unconditional Close/Distant Counter and whatever other effects. Moon Gradivus is tame or even not that great compared to what Alondite, regular Gradivus, Ragnell, Raijinto, and Siegfried got. It's Distant Counter and a breath effect which is Owain's Missiletainn with its Killer effect swapped for Distant Counter. It's Altina's Ragnell-Alondite, Freyja's Nightmare Horn, Halloween F!Grima's Moonless Breath, and berserk Ike's Chaos Ragnell that, as unpleasant as this may sound, look like current prf weapons. Yes, Altina and Freyja are mythics, but CYL Dimitri is a CYL unit, so Moon Gradivus could be closer to Moonless Breath or even Chaos Ragnell.

Saber, Osian, and Say'ri tested the grounds for Killer weapons with conditional Distant Counter. Well, that got blown away with Alondite and Ragnell gaining a Killer effect and also stat boosts for their unique refinement. An advantage for Saber compared to Osian and Say'ri is that he can be at whatever HP range for unique refined Golden Dagger's conditional Distant Counter to work so long as his special is charged which is fine and preferred as Counter units would like to operate at as great of a HP range as possible; high HP for tanking or so long as they are alive for Counter, Vantage if they have high enough attack. Osian is basically axe Saber with higher attack, speed, and resistance with him being a gen 4 melee infantry while Say'ri's shtick is her high resistance at the cost of defense and there is only so much damage reduction can do to patch up a low defensive stat. They can be knocked out of >= 50% HP and if that happens, they only have a prf Killer weapon.

Nowi's Purifying Breath aged poorly and quite quickly. She is a 3* to 4* launch unit with trainee BST, so the argument is there of why the hell would the developers allow her to have anything. That said, 2 less Mt compared to other non-Brave prf weapons and a special trigger penalty looks really bad compared to Alondite, Gradivus, Ragnell, Raijinto, Siegfried, and future Distant Counter and other effects weapons to come.

The funny thing is that we have yet to have a summonable ranged unit with an unconditional full Close Counter weapon. Boey's unique refined Inscribed Tome does not work on dragons, Julia's unique refined Naga only works on dragons, and Shinon's Double Bow is a conditional Close Counter that works when he is not adjacent to an ally. Only ranged Rokkrs have access to a full Close Counter.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Karla, Flora, Sothe, Fallen Takumi, and Spring Sharena are the next contestants of The Price is- er... The Weapon Refinery!

No "new" weapons being added this time, all refines of:

  • Vassal's Blade (Karla) with Accelerated special trigger and the Speed comparison special.
  • Hoarfrost Knife (Flora) with Acelerated special trigger, Def +20 when initiating on Melee enemies, and guaranteed follow-up if foe can also counterattack.
  • Peshkats (Sothe), which inflicted all stat -4 on target and nearby foes, and granted all stat +4 to Sothe and nearby allies.
  • Skadi (Betrayal), which boosted Spd by 3, and inflicted 10 damage and Panic on foes within 3 columns of Takumi at the start of turn 3.
  • Muninn's Egg (Bunny Sharena), which boosted Res by 3 and inflicted Atk/Res -5 on the foe with the lowest Spd as long as Sharena's HP is greater than 50%.

Karla and Sharena I can see getting purely upgraded effects. Karla getting the new standard of damage equal to 20% of units Spd, Sharena I hope getting a weapon version of Gunnthra's Chilling Seal II. Sothe is in dire need of an upgrade, literally anything other than a small boost AFTER combat, while Skadi... well I dunno, they might update the effect to trigger on more turns, they might let it trigger on 3 rows as well, hell maybe they could weaken the effect but let it trigger on ALL turns. As for Flora... I dunno, make the conditions less restrictive (since she was built to be a DC unit counter but can't do much against ranged units) to let her just get Def +20 and guaranteed follow-up as long as she initiates, maybe even change the Def +20 to a flat damage% decrease.

As for the special refines, hell if I'm gonna try and think of anything. The last time I had hopes for a good weapon refine for one of my +10 units, we got Lame Bolg instead. I'm just glad (and scared) we're finally getting to more of the units I'm personally invested in,

Edited by Xenomata
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The game seems to have moved far enough away from enemies that don't aggro when you enter their range to enemies aggroing from turn 1. So we might finally see Takumi using a passive AOE effect that triggers on multiple turns. Ie every third turn instead of just turn 3. If they reduce it down to every second turn like his lunatic fight then they could turn one of the worst units in the game into one of the best for dealing support damage.

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I'm praying that the Fallen Takumi refine is good. I foddered so much stuff to him, it'd be kinda a waste if his refine sucked. I've been waiting a long time for this.

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Here is my wish list:

— — — — — — —

Vassal's Blade: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit's Spd > foe's Spd, deals damage = 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage. Combos with Phantom Spd.)

Base: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Deals damage = 20% of unit's Spd.
Refine: Deals +10 damage when Special triggers. If unit's HP ≤ 75% and unit initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack before foe can counterattack.

Updated Spd damage. Added Wo Dao and guaranteed Desperation.

— — — — — — —

Muninn's Egg: Grants Res+3. At start of turn, if unit's HP ≥ 50%, inflicts Atk/Res-5 on foe on the enemy team with the lowest Spd through its next action.
Base: Grants Res+3. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on foes on the enemy team with the lowest Spd through their next actions.
Refine: Inflicts Atk/Res-7 on foes within 2 spaces of foes on the enemy team with the lowest Spd through their next actions. At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to an ally, grants【Dominance】to unit and adjacent allies for 1 turn.

Split Chilling Seal into base Weapon and Refine. Added Dominance to simulate Blizzard and to better support allies.

— — — — — — —

Skadi: Effective against flying foes. Grants Spd+3. At the start of turn 3, deals 10 damage to foes within 3 columns centered on unit, and converts bonuses on those foes into penalties through their next actions.
Base: Effective against flying foes. Grants Spd+3. At the start of turn, inflicts Panic foes within 3 columns or 3 rows centered on unit, and converts bonuses on those foes into penalties through their next actions.
Refine: At the start of turn 3 and every turn after, deals 10 damage to foes within 3 columns or 3 rows centered on unit.

The base Weapon is basically a Panic version of Valflame and Wargod's Tome, and the Refine deals a ton of damage instead of Blade tome effect.

— — — — — — —

Hoarfrost Knife: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit initiates combat and foe uses sword, lance, axe, dragonstone, or beast damage, grants Def+20 during combat, and if foe can counter, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Base: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit initiates combat, grants Def+20 during combat and unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Refine: During combat, reduces damage from foe's first attack by 40%. If foe initiates combat, grants Def+20.

Made her more bulky and dual phase oriented.

— — — — — — —

Peshkatz: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-4 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions, and grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn.
Base: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions, and grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn.
Refine: Grants bonus to unit's Atk = total bonuses and penalties on foe during combat.

Basically super Blade tome. Atk+28 is going to be there regardless of what you do, and if you are not careful, it could end up being Atk+56.

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On 5/6/2021 at 9:31 PM, Diovani Bressan said:

So I am predicting Marth and Tiki getting remix in November, and for January's Remix banner we will have Lucina and Eirika.

Same here, I think that's a pretty safe bet. I'm wondering how Future Vision will be buffed to rival To Change Fate and if Eirika and Ephraim's Braces will grant true damage/ healing per hit like how the new Bushido went from Wrath to the former.

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6 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Same here, I think that's a pretty safe bet. I'm wondering how Future Vision will be buffed to rival To Change Fate and if Eirika and Ephraim's Braces will grant true damage/ healing per hit like how the new Bushido went from Wrath to the former.

My idea for Future Vision would be having a Link skill alongside it, like Atk/Spd+6 to unit and ally when assist is used. Or add Wings of Mercy to it, so Lucina can uses different B skill and still warp to allies with low HP.

No idea what Eirika can get. Maybe remove the penalty her Brace has... That's a good start.

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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