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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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PLEASE! Make Gerome's refine good, he needs it to not be obsolete!

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11 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Is Dorcas the last Book 1 Farfetched unit? The others got refines already, right? And his weapon already has Distant Counter as an effect? I'm looking forward to seeing what he gets!

Yes. The only Book 1 main pool units without refines are now Hector (sort of), Olwen/Reinhardt, Olivia/Azura/Ninian, and the 3-4* healers.

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Gerome!!! FINALLY!!! I hope he gets... i don't know lol. I am so open to anything at this point. I have a gut feeling he will get Canto... 

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Fjorm gets a Unity skill, then her refine neutralizes penalties...well, someone goofed.

The others are decent to good, not really worth talking about.

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Dorcas is slightly disappointing. All other DC refines got 2 effects but he only got lull. Granted that's pretty good but a slaying effect, wary fighter, guard, or even quick riposte to free up his B slot would've been nice.

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Well, Blizzard is just plain mean when combined with Chilling Seal II. The additional base effect (when refined) is nice as well.

The others... frankly, they're all refines on units I don't care about, so... eh.

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Hoo boy, this is... huh.

Leiptr

Base effect is unchanged, just Distant Counter.

Refine effect grants +4 to all stats and nullifies her penalties if Fjorm's HP is 25% or higher and an additional +4 to Def and Res on enemy phase with the same condition.

Um... what? Unless the penalty nullification happens after Unity's effect, which is unlikely, it completely defeats the purpose of using her default Unity in the first place. While the extra stats are extremely good, this means she's still basically stuck running Quick Riposte and a Breath skill.

I guess the only point of giving her Unity was to have it for skill fodder. Sturdy Stance 3 is strictly better on enemy phase, and any Breath skill is still preferable if you want to use Ice Mirror consistently.

I mean, it's not actually a bad refine, but it does leave quite a bad taste in your mouth.

Huginn's Egg

Base effect is changed from inflicting -5 Atk and Def to the opponent with the lowest Res to Chill Atk 3 and Chill Spd 3. Also gains +5 Atk and Spd during combat if the opponent's HP is 75% or higher. The permanent +3 Res is unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 Atk and Spd and 30% damage reduction on first hit with a Blow-or-Unity condition.

They didn't give her Desperation, but they did give her 30% damage reduction, so I guess that's passable, and it pairs decently well with having Chill Atk on the weapon.

Gettting +10 Atk and Spd is really, really nice, especially since she already has a decent base 35 Spd stat. A maxed out Catria hits 54 Spd with just her weapon, meaning she can get that up to 63 Spd with Atk/Spd Catch (and can get both stacks of Catch fairly consistently) before even accounting for her weapon's Chill Spd or Spd-boosting B skills and Sacred Seals.

Stout Tomahawk

Base effect is unchanged, just Distant Counter.

Refine effect is -5 Atk and Def on opponent and Dull with a Blow-or-Unity condition.

Almost got this prediction on the nose. Nothing fancy. Pretty solid and exactly what he wanted. Dull means he doesn't need to run Close Def 4 or Distant Def 4 for the effect.

Blizzard

Base effect gains -4 Spd and Res on opponent if the opponent's HP is 75% or higher. The permanent +3 Res and Dominance are unchanged.

Refine effect is -4 to all stats on opponent if their HP is 25% or higher and Penalty Doubler on the opponent with the same condition.

Win. Just win. I wonder where all your stats went.

A Claude is being sacrificed for Gunnthra, the god of debuffs. Best user of Atk/Spd Catch yet.

Expiration

Base effect is unchanged, just Distant Counter and the dragonstone shared effect.

Refine is +4 to all stats and Guard if Grima's HP is 25% or higher.

Pretty much exactly what I predicted.

Legendary Robin now gets +10 to all stats + Distant Counter + Guard + Dull + Iote's Shield from her weapon and A skill, which is really solid. This gives a completely maxed out Robin 58 effective Spd with her new default Rein skill, and Dull prevents opponents from using field bonuses to creep that. A bit unfortunate that neither A/S Near Trace nor S/R Near Trace exist yet for the extra 3 Spd (you can settle for S/D Near Trace if you're desperate, but that's a waste).

Fallen Robin gets free stats and Guard, which is basically all he cares about. A bit of a shame he didn't get Dull instead of Guard since Guard is available from Crafty Fighter, but that just means he's free to stick with his default Vengeful Fighter.

Masking Axe

Base effect is effective damage against cavalry and +5 Atk and Def with a Stance condition or if the opponent's HP is 75% or higher.

Refine is -5 Atk and Def on the opponent with a Solo condition and Rouse Atk/Def 3.

That's really solid for a Grail unit. Pretty easy conditions to get +10/0/10/5 in combat with an additional +6/0/6/0 from bonuses.

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I was too busy laughing maniacally to actually do the arithmetic on Gunnthra's refine, but now that I have (assuming Atk/Spd Catch in the A slot and no Sacred Seal)...

Against opponents that got splashed by Chilling Seal II,

  • Gunnthra gains +23 Atk and +9 Spd (and +3 permanent Res)
  • The opponent is hit with -18 Atk, -8 Spd, -4 Def, and -22 Res

for a total effective +45 Atk, +17 Spd, +18 Def, and +21 Res.

 

Against the opponent that got directly hit by Chilling Seal II,

  • Gunnthra gains +37 Atk and +9 Spd (and +3 permanent Res)
  • The opponent is hit with -18 Atk, -22 Spd, -18 Def, and -22 Res

for a total effective +59 Atk, +31 Spd, +18 Def, and +21 Res.

Fucking rekt. I still can't stop laughing.

 

+10+10 Gunnthra [+Spd] (Blizzard [unique], Atk/Spd Catch 4, Chilling Seal II) effectively has 43/110/73/43/52 against the poor unfortunate that got hit directly by Chilling Seal.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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35 minutes ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

Gunnthrás is far from “decent to good” it’s great uh hello? lol

Hello! I think you misunderstood me. "Decent to good" is a range. No one refine is "decent to good;" that would be like saying one refine is 6-8/10, which would pretty weird. Blizzard's refine is on the higher end of the range.

I also request you don't look too deeply into the minutia of my wording. All I meant was that those refines all have their varying degrees of value, but there was nothing in them I wanted to bring attention to.

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I just did a quick test with Fjorm and can confirm that Leiptr's refine and Atk/Def Unity do not play nice with each other. I hit Fjorm with Chilling Seal II and then attacked with a unit with no in-combat effects and got +16/11/20/15 on the combat preview. +4/4/8/8 comes from Leiptr's stats, +7/7/7/7 from Leiptr nullifying her penalties, and +5/0/5/0 from Unity's basic effect.

So yeah, Unity is fine if all you want is the +5 Atk/Def and don't have a skill with better stats, but she'll be better off with something like Fierce Breath or Sturdy Stance 3 if you have them.

 

Meanwhile, this is as silly as I thought it would be:

Spoiler

MAiRk1g.png

Marth's stats after all of the debuffs are 44/36/24/18/3.
Gunnthra's stats after all of her buffs are 43/103/66/31/40.

EDIT: Even more stats courtesy of Blade Session.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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New lineup: Laegjarn, Maribelle, Bride Sanaki, Ares/Eldigan, Finn

I think we knew about Sanaki, while Ares/Eldigan and Finn were next in line. Laegjarn starts on the Muspell generals. Maribelle is notable for being one of the final weekly revival units to have been awaiting a refine. The only others are the four dancers (Azura, Ninian, Lene, and Super Olivia), Olwen, and regular Hector. Meanwhile, out of the Book 1 demotes, Reinhardt is the only non-healer/dancer to be missing a refine. Wonder if we're getting close to finally tying up those loose ends.

Ares is also significant - he's the last Book 2 demote with a prf. So hopefully they'll soon start digging into the ones that don't have prfs. Soleil is the most obvious, but Shigure, Legault, and Libra are also options. (Unfortunately, Nanna probably isn't happening anytime soon.)

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7 minutes ago, Naoshi said:

221qgoykuae71.png

Book 1 and Book 2 missing Refines. Courtesy of u/Greid_IX

Ooh, I like that visualization. 

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I think all Dark Mystletainn really needs is just cooldown count -2 at start of turn 1. Harmonic effect would also be nice for the extra 10 damage. If they are really generous, Null C-Disrupt would make him really stand out and awesome. Even with all that though, I am not sure if he can make Counter-Vantage relevant again.

Níu already absorbs buffs from the enemy, so I think it should add reversing buffs on the enemy. And since not everyone uses buffs, I do not think it is overpowered either to reverse Laegjarn debuffs and apply half of her total debuffs on all her foe's stats. So if Gunnthrá hits her with all stat -7 and she gets Panicked from Aversa with another all stat -7, Laegjarn can inflict all stat -28 on Gunnthrá and Aversa during combat.

Nifl Frostflower sucks as is. I think it should get a flat Atk/Spd+6 if she is within 3 spaces of an ally. Since her base kit seems a bit more support oriented and defensive, maybe give herself and allies within 3 spaces Special Fighter during combat. With Special Fighter, players can use her as a nuke or tank too if they wish too.

Finn should get Meister Lance. If it can get Slaying and/or Special charge +1 per hit that would be great.

It would be nice if Maribelle can provide Drive Cancel Affinity to allies within four spaces and/or within three columns or rows. Alternatively, more selective application of Triangle Adept would also be nice, so if there are no red allies, then she would not inflict Triangle Adept on green enemies.

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My usual predictions segment:

Loyalty Spear

I'm expecting the Meister effect with a boost to Atk/Def on a something-or-Unity condition. I could also see them pull an Oscar or Cuan and give Joint cavalry buffs.

A Near Trace would be cool, but I doubt they'd give it to an old Grail unit with a Brave weapon.

Punishment Staff

Trilemma kind of sucks. The Triangle Adept status effect is good for weaker player-phase teams, but isn't great for stronger player-phase teams that are capable of winning at weapon triangle disadvantage and is awful for enemy-phase teams, which typically need to take combat at weapon triangle disadvantage.

I'm expecting it to get Drive Cancel Affinity (possibly 3 range), which would turn the Triangle Adept status effect into a positive effect both at weapon triangle advantage and at weapon triangle disadvantage.

Also an obligatory Atk/Spd combat bonus to herself.

Dark Mystletainn

A guaranteed follow-up of some kind would be appreciated, as it would allow him to more consistently activate Bonfire the first time without the need for Quick Riposte. Alternatively, he could just get Quickened Pulse [2] and call it a day.

But I'm totally expecting him to get one more effect on top of that, like perhaps Wo Dao to capitalize on his niche.

And an obligatory Atk/Def combat bonus.

Niu

As Gunnthra's dead-older-sister counterpart, I'm pretty sure Laegjarn is going to get something that allows her to double dip into the opponent's bonuses, and the first effects that come to mind are Freyja's Binding Necklace and Legion's Sneering Axe.

I'm not expecting to get Windex's effect since Laegjarn actually has some use for all of her stats, but it's still a possible alternative. I don't think it would be in addition to Binding Necklace or Sneering Axe, though.

As Laegjarn is reasonably tanky and is capable of stacking stats with her weapon, I could also see her getting Blue Lion Rule, but that's a stretch.

Also an obligatory Atk/Spd/Def combat bonus.

Nifl Frostflowers

Currently has Atk/Spd Form 3 without the extra 1 point. I could see that staying the same, being turned into a Unity effect of some sort, or even getting upgraded to Atk/Spd/Res.

I'm expecting it to get a teleportation effect (either Warp Powder or Grimoire, though her default Atk/Res Bond says Warp Powder) so that she can offload Flier Formation/Aerobatics onto her weapon.

If I want to try something a bit more out there, being a bride unit, I could definitely see it getting an effect that lets her teleport to her support partner and vice versa. And then Tharja could get the same effect next month.

Sanaki's Spd stat is also rather mediocre despite her weapon giving her additional Spd, so I'd expect to see an additional boost to Spd among her obligatory stat combat bonuses.

 

1 hour ago, Naoshi said:

[useful chart]

Book 1 and Book 2 missing Refines. Courtesy of u/Greid_IX

This is making me realize Ophelia's turn is potentially coming up soon. I hope she gets Hardy Bearing added as a base effect to her weapon, like Legendary Lilina, so that Hardy Bearing can finally go on a different unit to use as a Vantage counter.

 

EDIT: 'Tch. Ninjaed by @XRay while I was formatting my post.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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Tch, woulda preferred Helbindi or Laevatein getting to go first, since I actually merged them up. Woulda been sweet to have another Legion situation where he gets an awesome refine and I already have investment in the unit...

As-is, the only refine I'm interested in is Dark Mystletainn (not even for Ares, for Eldigan). I'm curious to see what exactly they could give an already mostly-perfect weapon, though if I'm honest there's no way in hell this thing isn't coming out with a +5 Atk/Def boost. Even just a simple building in of Lull Atk/Def would still be a good refine.
I guess I'm also kinda interested in Punishment Staff, but my Maribelle has Flash+, and I highly doubt she'll be getting a Flash effect...

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Obviously I have nothing to back this up other than a hunch, but I wonder if 3-4 star healers and dancers will be open to getting refines if and only if Ethlyn and Young Azura get refines as well. Heroes is slowly giving all of their grail units prf weapons and refines, and they did eventually get to the DC ones even if it took a while. But they will have to deal with Ethlyn and Young Azura eventually. If those two aren't skipped, maybe it's a sign that the rest will follow?

EDIT: @Othin @Naoshi I thought normal Ephraim got a refine a long time ago though. He was like one of the first.

Edited by Sunwoo

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