Jump to content

General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
 Share

Recommended Posts

B!Alm is looking pretty nutty with the Windsweep+half NFU and +10 to all stats. The Windsweep part of his refine doesn't synergize very well with Scendscale due to the latter draining his HP and he needs it >25% for the Windsweep to be active, but you can solve that easily by giving him Mystic Boost in his B slot as that's pretty free. He has potential to be a menace in AR-D, but that mode is still in L!Sigurd's grip so Alm will have to wait until that guy falls off so other melee red units can have a chance to thrive there. 

I knew L!Ephraim would go all in as a Galeforce unit because he just can't compare to B!Eirika in terms of damage. Solar Brace is kinda iffy if one wants to make him a WoM beacon due to the healing, but the Null Guard is too important to simply forgo the skill in favor of a Trace. I suppose one can go with Trace if they choose their targets carefully, but I have mixed feelings about that idea. 

B!Eliwood is another direct competitor against B!Eirika. With just his prf at neutral +0/+0 he has 40/63/48/42/28 against Eirika's 39/61/47/33/28, the extra DF means he wins in terms of raw stats. His dmg reduction is higher on most of his targets because most Beasts/Dragons are in the middling speed tier so he should be getting the full 40%. But B!Eirika still hits a LOT harder with her special procs due to her exclusive B skill, and being effective against armors is better than being effective against dragons (she can get that too with Naga support). He's a better F!Edelgard killer in a nutshell and is also bulkier, so he's more of a duelist than a nuke.

M!Kana is whatever. +8 to all stats is only delaying the inevitable. This weapon is going to fall off hard as BST keeps increasing. The healing is cool, I guess. 

L!Lyn certainly got a ton of stats to make up for her poor BST. The Spd based true dmg is a little lower than what I'd like, but at least is still good enough to keep her sorta relevant for AA (she's trash in arena because scoring) and maybe AR. Needs NFU to make the most out of her kit, and I think at low merges she'll still miss quite a few kills. This is mostly for Lyns that are +5 or higher. 

B!Camilla rounds up her in-combat buffs to +10 Atk/Spd, keeps the Gravity effect and gets the super ploy debuffs in Def/Res for some extra utility. She'll pair nicely with Broadleaf Fan+ users, the Fallen Morgans and Plegian weapon users. A little on the simplistic side, but there's no need to fix what ain't broken. 

B!Micaiah is...disappointing. Stats and a guaranteed follow-up is all she got. I'd rather she had replaced the stealing debuffs part and made it a Broadleaf Fan effect to cement her as the Micaiah with the highest explosive damage. Oh well, you can't win them all. 

Edited by Alexmender
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

M!Kana is meh, I guess. He got healing while F!Kana got enemy buff neutralization. Nothing to write home about.

— — — — — — —

Ephraim: Legendary Lord can be a pretty good Galeforcer with guaranteed follow-up and Special charge+1. The healing from Solar Brace is not ideal for Wings of Mercy, but Atk/Spd Push with future Fury Sacred Seal should be good enough to offset it. He can also just be a straight up dual phase unit.

I think Ephraim can be just as fun too since he has access to Time's Pulse for almost guaranteed Galeforce.

— — — — — — —

Swift Mulagir's 3 space requirement is still a disappoint. If you use Azura: Vallite Songstress, that 3 space requirement is going to be an issue. At least the dumb condition did not get into the Refine. I hope I am wrong, but I am not sure if it can surpass Brave Bow in damage output with a regular Desperation build. I guess she can still be used as a tank buster with Null Follow-Up.

— — — — — — —

Alm: Imperial Ascent seems pretty decent overall for tank busting. The Refinement feels a bit iffy though, due to the HP condition, and I am not sure if the HP condition only applies to the stat boost or to the stat boost AND Null Follow-Up AND Windsweep.

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

B!Alm is looking pretty nutty with the Windsweep+half NFU and +10 to all stats. The Windsweep part of his refine doesn't synergize very well with Scendscale due to the latter draining his HP and he needs it >25% for the Windsweep to be active, but you can solve that easily by giving him Mystic Boost in his B slot as that's pretty free. He has potential to be a menace in AR-D, but that mode is still in L!Sigurd's grip so Alm will have to wait until that guy falls off so other melee red units can have a chance to thrive there. 

Yeah, the HP condition is a bit crappy. It seems like the HP condition might apply to Null Follow-Up and Windsweep, but I am not too sure since it has "and also" between the two parts, so there is a chance that Null Follow-Up and Windsweep are separate from the stat boost conditions.

— — — — — — —

Eliwood: Marquess Pherae is another potential tank buster. He is not bad, but Alm: Imperial Ascent feels a little better in my opinion due to having both Null Follow-Up and Windsweep, and he can run Watersweep for an almost Firesweep. Damage reduction is not bad, but Sweep is better in my opinion to avoid damage altogether.

— — — — — — —

Micaiah: Queen of Dawn got guaranteed follow-up, and that is it. My gut instinct is to run a Sweep, but she will have issues against Wary Fighter units. At least she is not as pathetic as M!Kana, but being the second weakest is not exactly ideal either.

— — — — — — —

Camilla: Queen of Nohr kept Gravity and got super Ploy, which is nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dusk Dragonstone

Base effect is +4 to all stats with a Stance condition or if foe's HP is 75% or higher.

Refine effect is +4 to all stats and 7 HP recovery after combat if unit is within 3 spaces of an ally.

RIP female Kana. +8 to all stats with very easy conditions compared to female Kana only getting +4/7/7/7 with a finicky condition and needing a still-not-yet-existent B skill to make it not finicky. At least female Kana gets the Lull effect.

That said, it's not particularly great, given just how far Kana is behind modern infantry dragons, but it's usable and certainly within expectations for a Grail unit. The healing is quite nice for what's clearly meant to be a predominantly enemy-phase weapon that still functions on both phases.

Dracofalchion

Base effect of +5 to all stats if there are more enemies than allies within 2 spaces is upgraded to +5 to all stats with a Blow condition or Solo condition. New base effect grants Tempest. Permanent +3 Atk and effective damage are unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 to all stats if unit's HP is 25% or higher, and Windsweep and nullifies effects that prevent unit's follow-up attacks if opponent is physical and unit's HP is 25% or higher.

I was definitely not expecting him to get either Tempest or Windsweep.

He's on the slow end of Windsweepers, suck at only 45(+3 with Asset) Spd, whereas Duo Byleth has 54(+4) Spd with 7 Spd from the A slot, Ishtar and Brave Eliwood have 54(+3) Spd with 7 Spd from the A slot, Legendary Byleth has 52(+4) Spd with 7 Spd from the A slot, and Spring Fir has 48(+4) Spd with 7 Spd from the A slot. It'll help him deal with pesky Wary Fighter armors, but won't be enough for all of the annoyingly strong fast infantry going around.

Tempest at least gives him a really good reason to finally toss the more common Brave Sword, but the pile of extra stats and being able to break Wary Fighter certainly helps seal the deal. When maxed out (minus supports), Alm hits 55 Atk with a Sacred Seal that grants 6 Atk, but without his weapon. With Brave Sword+, he has 78 effective Atk (63+15) with Scendscale. With Dracofalchion, he has 105 effective Atk (84+21) with Scendscale. If the opponent is fast enough that Dracofalchion can't double, Dracofalchion only wins if the opponent has 51 Def or more; granted, below that you're hitting for at least 54 damage with either weapon, so most of the time, they're going to be dead either way.

Flame Siegmund

Base effect of guaranteed follow-up if there are more enemies than allies within 2 spaces is upgraded to guaranteed follow-up and +4 Atk/Def with a Solo condition. Permanent +3 Atk is unchanged.

Refine effect is -5 Atk/Def and +1 Special charge rate if unit's HP is 25% or higher.

Well, that's almost exactly what I predicted. Not much else to say. Go and Galeforce away. Hey, that rhymes.

Ninis's Ice Lance

Base effect of +4 to all stats with a Blow condition is upgraded to +4 to all stats and nullifies effects that prevent unit's follow-up attacks with a Blow condition or Unity condition. Permanent +3 Spd and effective damage are unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 to all stats and Dodge with a Blow condition or Unity condition.

Well, my prediction of percentage damage reduction and Null Follow-Up was pretty much on the nose. Dodge is a bit weaker than I'd have liked from damage reduction, but getting the half of Null Follow-Up that matters means he can use Windsweep to deal with Fallen Edelgard instead of needing to rely on Dodge.

Overall pretty good.

Swift Mulagir

Base effect of +5 Atk/Spd if there are more allies than enemies within 2 spaces is upgraded to +5 Atk/Spd and Impenetrable Dark if unit is within 3 spaces of an ally. Permanent +3 Res is unchanged.

Refine effect is +5 Atk/Spd and piercing damage equal to 15% of unit's Spd with a Blow condition or if the opponent's HP is 75% or higher.

I'm somewhat disappointed they decided to go full offensive instead of leaning more into her actually passable defenses. Would it have hurt to have made both of the stat boosts also include Def and Res?

When completely maxed out (minus supports), Lyn has 73 Spd with a Sacred Seal that grants 6 Spd, giving her 10 extra damage. It increases to 11 damage at 74 Spd and drops to 9 damage at 66 Spd.

Her maxed out stat spread hits 44/69+9/63/35/44 with just her weapon and A skill, going up to 44/75+10/73/35/44 with her default Joint Drive Spd and the Atk/Spd Solo Sacred Seal. In comparison, a maxed out Ulir hits 45/83/72/36/25 with her default Time's Pulse 3 and the Atk/Spd Solo Sacred Seal (Atk/Spd Ideal 4 instead of Life and Death 4 in the A slot). That's pretty comparable.

Impenetrable Dark shuts down Save skills and also blocks annoying things like Caduceus Staff.

Against a maxed out Fallen Edelgard, Lyn with Null Follow-Up hits for 12+20-14=18 damage on the first round of combat and can't be counterattacked, which is decent. A second round of combat finishes her off.

Light of Dawn

Additional base effect of +5 to all stats if the opponent's HP is 75% or higher or if the opponent has a Penalty. Original base effect, permanent +3 Res, and effective damage are unchanged.

Refine effect is +6 Atk/Res and a guaranteed follow-up with a Blow condition or Unity condition.

Micaiah, therefore, guaranteed follow-up. Yeah.

A bit disappointed that she doesn't get Penalty Doubler, but the +5 to all stats is a good enough substitute, considering she didn't get Sabotage Def/Res to complement Yune's Whispers.

Otherwise, she's basically just another Micaiah doing the usual Micaiah things.

Sanngridr

Base effect of +3 Atk/Spd with a Blow condition is upgraded to Swift Sparrow 2. The other base effects are unchanged.

Refine effect is +6 Atk/Spd with a Blow condition and -7 Def/Res visible debuff to all enemies within Valflame range.

So they basically just made it do more damage. Alrighty.

The additional debuff is pretty amazing. Not only does it have Valflame's huge range, but it's also completely unconditional. I guess Gunnthra has a new friend.

 

Overall thoughts

Alm and Eliwood are now proper Fallen Edelgard counters. Ephraim now more easily Galeforces himself into the sunset. Camilla hits like a truck and has one of the best debuffs in the game. Pretty solid for all of them, though I would have liked to see a bit more on Alm's refine.

Micaiah is another Micaiah. Nukes non-armors better with her new guaranteed follow-up, but still dies if you can throw a rock at her.

Lyn's refine skill icon is a giant grabbing a guy trying to run away by the leg like a popsicle. The condition on the "Closesweep" effect on Laws of Sacae is less of an issue with how high her Spd gets now.

Kana is par for the course for Grail units.

 

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

The healing from Solar Brace is not ideal for Wings of Mercy, but Atk/Spd Push with future Fury Sacred Seal should be good enough to offset it.

That's what Canto is for. You don't really need to teleport to him if he can just walk back to your dancer for free. Well, for the first dance, at least.

I'm not sure Ephraim's bulk (59 effective Def at +10+0) is quite high enough to reliably tank from half HP, considering the green Edelgards have a tendency to have 70+ Atk. You might as well just run Desperation over Solar Brace II if you're going to be using Wings of Mercy since the only effect that Solar Brace II has that isn't useless or detrimental at that point is Null Guard.

 

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you use Azura: Vallite Songstress, that 3 space requirement is going to be an issue.

You could just teleport in front of Lyn if you're using Wings of Mercy or Aerobatics.

And in the Arena, distance isn't usually an issue.

 

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

I hope I am wrong, but I am not sure if it can surpass Brave Bow in damage output with a regular Desperation build.

Swift Mulagir with the setup in my initial analysis gets Lyn up to 44/75+10/73/35/44.

Brave Bow+ gets Lyn to 44/64/59/29/35 with an Atk Asset instead of a Spd Asset and your favorite Brazen Atk/Spd 4 instead of Laws of Sacae II.

If both weapons double, Brave Bow wins if the opponent's Def is less than 43 if neither build activates a Special and the opponent has nothing for Impenetrable Dark to nullify, but at that point, both builds are hitting for 84 damage. Like in Alm's case with Brave Sword, both builds are doing so much damage against enemies with less Def than that that it doesn't matter at that point.

Swift Mulagir is going to hit as hard as Brave Bow+ in all relevant match-ups and has the advantage of having Impenetrable Dark and "Null Distant Counter", can run Null Follow-Up on her B slot to bypass Wary Fighter instead of Desperation, and doesn't need setup.

 

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

The Refinement feels a bit iffy though, due to the HP condition, and I am not sure if the HP condition only applies to the stat boost or to the stat boost AND Null Follow-Up AND Windsweep.

It applies to all of them.

I'm not really sure why it really matters, though, since if he's not being counterattacked, it'll take at least 5 rounds of combat for Scendscale to do enough damage to drop his HP out of range.

 

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

Eliwood: Marquess Pherae is another potential tank buster. He is not bad, but Alm: Imperial Ascent feels a little better in my opinion due to having both Null Follow-Up and Windsweep, and he can run Watersweep for an almost Firesweep. Damage reduction is not bad, but Sweep is better in my opinion to avoid damage altogether.

Eliwood just runs Windsweep in his B slot and lets his Dodge handle counterattacks from dragons. Dragons don't really have much access to powerful first counterattacks due to the low distribution of Slaying weapons and their inability to run Ruptured Sky.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's what Canto is for. You don't really need to teleport to him if he can just walk back to your dancer for free. Well, for the first dance, at least.

I'm not sure Ephraim's bulk (59 effective Def at +10+0) is quite high enough to reliably tank from half HP, considering the green Edelgards have a tendency to have 70+ Atk. You might as well just run Desperation over Solar Brace II if you're going to be using Wings of Mercy since the only effect that Solar Brace II has that isn't useless or detrimental at that point is Null Guard.

Hm, that is true. He can Galeforce then run back and have the Dancer/Singer move him further back. And since he has Solo condition, probably best to use him as a one off Galeforcer in whatever team you need rather than in a full on Wings of Mercy-Galeforce team.

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You could just teleport in front of Lyn if you're using Wings of Mercy or Aerobatics.

And in the Arena, distance isn't usually an issue.

It just feels more risky to put Dancers/Singers in front of a nuke.

They could have just had the base Weapon effect be active on player phase too just like Laws of Sacae II, and it would not even be broken. But no.

I am not too worried about Arena since it is pretty easy in Tier 19.5, and I honesly do not think I have used Wings of Mercy often on my Olivia either in that mode.

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Swift Mulagir with the setup in my initial analysis gets Lyn up to 44/75+10/73/35/44.

Brave Bow+ gets Lyn to 44/64/59/29/35 with an Atk Asset instead of a Spd Asset and your favorite Brazen Atk/Spd 4 instead of Laws of Sacae II.

If both weapons double, Brave Bow wins if the opponent's Def is less than 43 if neither build activates a Special and the opponent has nothing for Impenetrable Dark to nullify, but at that point, both builds are hitting for 84 damage. Like in Alm's case with Brave Sword, both builds are doing so much damage against enemies less Def than that that it doesn't matter at that point.

Swift Mulagir is going to hit as hard as Brave Bow+ in all relevant match-ups and has the advantage of having Impenetrable Dark and "Null Distant Counter", can run Null Follow-Up on her B slot to bypass Wary Fighter instead of Desperation, and doesn't need setup.

I guess I would not have cared too much about damage output if she did not have the dumb 3 space condition. But since she does have it, her role as a tank buster feels more sketchy with so many more effective options out there. So if she is not too competitive as a tank buster, it made me think about just using her as a regular old raw damage nuke.

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It applies to all of them.

I'm not really sure why it really matters, though, since if he's not being counterattacked, it'll take at least 5 rounds of combat for Scendscale to do enough damage to drop his HP out of range.

Hm... That is true. He should be able to kill any tank after 5 rounds of combat.

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Eliwood just runs Windsweep in his B slot and lets his Dodge handle counterattacks from dragons. Dragons don't really have much access to powerful first counterattacks due to the low distribution of Slaying weapons and their inability to run Ruptured Sky.

He is not bad, I just wish he had more player phase oriented stuff so he has more options and flexibility on player phase, although I guess as a cavalry unit, he does not really have much in terms of B slot options anyways.

Alm: Imperical Ascent can go for almost Firesweep, or just run Special Spiral/Wrath-Time's Pulse and kill things with Ruptured Sky since anything that cannot be Windswept will probably die to the Special trigger.

Eliwood: Marquess Pherae just feels like he is forced to run Windsweep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, XRay said:

Alm: Imperical Ascent can go for almost Firesweep, or just run Special Spiral/Wrath-Time's Pulse and kill things with Ruptured Sky since anything that cannot be Windswept will probably die to the Special trigger.

I don't even think it's worth running Watersweep at all on Alm. Most tome units that would run Close Counter are green (Boey, Gatekeeper, Fallen Lyon), with Duo Alfonse and maybe young Lyon being the only ones that are blue, and dragons should just flat-out disintegrate to the 147 effective Atk from effective damage and Scendscale. Even with Dragon Wall, you're going to be hard-pressed to actually survive that.

I'd probably also go for Special Spiral + Atk/Spd Menace over Wrath + Time's Pulse if the team's not already running both buff and debuff support. I think the extra Spd is a bit more valuable than the extra damage.

 

Either way, I don't think it's too much of an issue that Eliwood is shoehorned into running Windsweep. He's already one of the fastest Windsweepers available, and he's also one of the few units in the game with effective damage against beasts. And cavalry really only have Desperation, Lull, and Trace as B slot options otherwise.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Impenetrable Dark shuts down Save skills and also blocks annoying things like Caduceus Staff.

Did you test it on Lyn though?

I know that Bramimond's Impenetrable Dark doesn't work on Save Skills. Impenetrable Dark disable skills on all foes excluding target in combat. Save Skills triggers before combat.

I didn't test it myself, since I have no plans to refine Lyn anytime soon, but I am pretty sure that she doesn't stop Save Skills since Bramimond doesn't do that.

She still stops Caduceus Staff and Nifl's Domain of Ice on allies (still works on Nifl herself).

Edited by Diovani Bressan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Did you test it on Lyn though?

I know that Bramimond's Impenetrable Dark doesn't work on Save Skills. Impenetrable Dark disable skills on all foes excluding target in combat. Save Skills triggers before combat.

I didn't test it myself, since I have no plans to refine Lyn anytime soon, but I am pretty sure that she doesn't stop Save Skills since Bramimond doesn't do that.

Hm, I had just assumed that it did, but had never tested with Bramimond. I guess it doesn't, then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

We have another all-red weapon refinery coming up.

  • Owain and his Missiletainn
  • Laevatein and her... Laevatein
  • Soleil will be receiving the Soleil's Shine
  • Julius with his Loptous
  • Bride Tharja and her Múspell Fireposy
Edited by Xenomata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Owain, I am hoping for charge+1 per attack and super Time's Pulse, and Null Special and super Special Spiral.
Base: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). At start of turn, grants Special cooldown count-2. Grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack during combat. (Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)
Refine: During combat, neutralizes effects that grant "Special cooldown charge +X" to foe, or inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit. Grants Special cooldown count-2 after combat.

For Tharja: Obssessive Bride, Atk/Spd Form sucks in my opinion. I am not sure what she will get, so I am guessing something that might help deal with bulky units like Edelgard: Hegemon Husk.
Base: Grants Spd+3. If unit initiates combat or is within 3 spaces of an ally, grants Atk/Spd+6.
Refine: Grants bonus to unit’s Atk = total bonuses on unit during combat. If total bonus on unit > total bonus on foe, or if【Penalty】is active on foe, foe cannot counterattack.

For Laevatein, I am hope she gets something better than Blizzard. Since she is one my favorite characters, I want her to get something totally bonkers.
Base: Grants Atk+3. At start of turn, grants Atk+7 and【Null Panic】to unit for 1 turn. Grants bonus to unit’s Atk = total bonuses and penalties on unit and foe during combat.
Refine: Deal damage = total bonuses and penalties on unit and foe during combat. Inflect Def-X on foe during combat, where X = total bonuses and penalties on unit and foe.

For Julius, turning him more into a dragon is all I can think of.
Base: Grants Res+3. Skills with "effective against dragons" are effective against unit. If foe has no skills with "effective against dragons," inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-6 on foe during combat and calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Refine: If foe has no skills with "effective against dragons," neutralizes effects that prevent unit's follow-up attacks, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack, and reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by 40%.

For Soleil, I imagine her to be another tank buster using Blazing Wind cause I cannot really think of anything.
Base: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). During combat, neutralizes effects that inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit. Foe cannot counterattack.
Refine: If Special triggers before or during combat, grants Special cooldown count-2 after combat. Deals +10 damage when Special triggers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to finally start on the Book 2 non-prf demotes, but it's frustrating that we're still not touching any of the Book 1 units who've been left by the wayside.

Edited by Othin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Odd that the update information is on the main site, but not on the Twitter or the in-game notifications yet.

Soleil's Shine in Japanese is ソレイユの陽剣 (soreiyu no yōken), "Soleil's Shining Sword".

Anyways, my predictions as usual.

Soleil's Shine

Soleil's current weapon is a Firesweep Sword. I'm expecting her new weapon to have the same base effect.

The primary disadvantage of Firesweep weapons is the fact that they can't use the opponent's counterattack to help charge a Special. I can see the refine giving either Special Fighter or a Pulse effect. Also probably +5 Atk and Spd.

It's worth noting that the name of her weapon in Japanese is reminiscent of the Daytime series of skills, but any sort of healing effect is rather pointless on a Firesweep weapon. If they do go this route instead, it'll certainly have a completely different base effect, perhaps just any one of the Nosferatu effects. The refine could be pretty much anything in this case, but it'll probably have a high-HP condition.

Soleil is also a 4-star unit, so I wouldn't really put my hopes up too high.

Laevatein

I'm honestly expecting this to just be a perfect analogue of Blizzard: +3 permanent Atk, Litrblade, and +4 Atk and Spd on the base effect and +4 to all stats and Bonus Doubler on the refine effect.

Missiletainn

The current base effect is the Slaying effect and Special charge rate +1 on enemy attacks. I don't expect that to change.

It's worth noting that Owain has Blue Flame, which has a base cooldown of 3, and Wrath on his base kit, and I think they'll give him a refine that plays well with them. I'm expecting something like Vantage plus an additional -1 Special cooldown at the beginning of the turn when under 75% HP, which will allow him to fully charge Blue Flame at the beginning of every turn. This would also allow players to replace his default Wrath with Spurn and run Time's Pulse, which will give the same end effect, but with damage reduction.

Alternatively, instead of Vantage, he could get an enemy-phase Desperation, like Legendary Seliph, which would pair better with Spurn.

Loptous

Loptous really sucks. What amounts to a total of +6 Def and +9 Res is pretty bad trade-off for being weak to dragon-effective damage.

Add -6 Res to the base effect and make the refine be Dragon Wall if the opponent does not have effective damage. Maybe also give him +4 to all stats (or -4 to all stats on the opponent) for the obligatory stat boost.

Even better, just replace the base effect with Dragon Wall and make the refine effect be Dragon's Ire. That way, he can pretend to be an actual dragon to justify being weak to dragon-effective damage.

Muspell Fireposy

They're definitely going to do the same thing they did to Nifl Frostflowers here.

If that's the case, the base effect will end up being +3 permanent Spd, +7 Atk and Spd if there is an ally within 3 spaces, and an additional +2 Atk and Spd if there is a second ally within 3 spaces. 

I'm expecting the refine effect to be +5 Atk and Spd plus an Atk boost equal to the highest Atk bonus on an ally within 3 spaces (though there's a possibility they might switch it to Spd instead).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Xenomata said:

We have another all-red weapon refinery coming up.

  • Owain and his Missiletainn
  • Laevatein and her... Laevatein
  • Soleil will be receiving the Soleil's Shine
  • Julius with his Loptous
  • Bride Tharja and her Múspell Fireposy

I really hope Julius gets something good. For one of the most broken weapons in the series, Lopous was quite disappointing even on release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Loptous

 

Loptous really sucks. What amounts to a total of +6 Def and +9 Res is pretty bad trade-off for being weak to dragon-effective damage.

Add -6 Res to the base effect and make the refine be Dragon Wall if the opponent does not have effective damage. Maybe also give him +4 to all stats (or -4 to all stats on the opponent) for the obligatory stat boost.

Even better, just replace the base effect with Dragon Wall and make the refine effect be Dragon's Ire. That way, he can pretend to be an actual dragon to justify being weak to dragon-effective damage.

Based on Fallen Julia, I'm guessing the dragon weakness will go away and lean only on losing added effects when facing dragon-slaying weapons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m looking forward to Laevateins the most as she’s one of my favorite FEH characters!!! While BD is nice especially staking with BD a slot. I think they’ll do more than that as FEH character particularly Book 2 has been getting a lot of love lately would be nice if they go Gunnthrá-bonkers and give her something like boost damage base on 15-20% of her Atk! or typical NFU or Guaranteed FU are safe bets.

Edited by Mage Goddess Lysithea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Othin said:

Based on Fallen Julia, I'm guessing the dragon weakness will go away and lean only on losing added effects when facing dragon-slaying weapons.

Eh, I'm not so sure. Even if Fallen Julia is the only other unit with an effect that works only on units without effective damage, her weapon is "corrupted Naga" and not a full Loptous.

And personally, I'd rather they lean more into Loptous being a "ranged dragon" weapon than less. Heck, it would be really cool if they also made it immune to magic-effective damage.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingKitsune said:

Wait, when are the refines coming out again?

Looks like the update should be on Tuesday night or Wednesday morning/afternoon depending on your time zone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Eh, I'm not so sure. Even if Fallen Julia is the only other unit with an effect that works only on units without effective damage, her weapon is "corrupted Naga" and not a full Loptous.

And personally, I'd rather they lean more into Loptous being a "ranged dragon" weapon than less. Heck, it would be really cool if they also made it immune to magic-effective damage.

 

Looks like the update should be on Tuesday night or Wednesday morning/afternoon depending on your time zone.

Part of my thinking is, in the original game, Julius was never weak to any sort of effective damage. All Naga did was take away his weapon's special effect. Fallen Julia's weapon seems to be based on that, and it makes just as much sense for Julius.

Gatekeeper and Legendary Byleth both lean into the "tomes imitating other weapon type" thing, but they're rare units specifically built around it. I think a proper "tome dragon" would want Close Counter and adaptive damage, and that seems unlikely to me.

Edited by Othin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And personally, I'd rather they lean more into Loptous being a "ranged dragon" weapon than less. Heck, it would be really cool if they also made it immune to magic-effective damage.

For a long time I wanted his refine to give him buffs from dragon related skills to further this idea. He gets the weakness of dragons but can also get their buffs and fill out a dragon team. Only issue there is that the likes of Ward or Hone Dragons just isn't aren't that remarkable anymore 😕 At least unless they plan to make some more dragon C skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Othin said:

Part of my thinking is, in the original game, Julius was never weak to any sort of effective damage. All Naga did was take away his weapon's special effect. Fallen Julia's weapon seems to be based on that, and it makes just as much sense for Julius.

Sure, but in the original game, Naga didn't have effective damage, either. That was only added in Awakening.

Either way, I still think he should remain weak to dragon-effective damage. Otherwise, he'll have an advantage against against the green Naga weapons.

Also, giving him the weakness is an excuse to make the other effects on his weapon stronger.

 

5 hours ago, Othin said:

I think a proper "tome dragon" would want Close Counter and adaptive damage, and that seems unlikely to me.

I don't think either effect is really necessary for the weapon to convincingly be a "tome dragon". The only reason Distant Counter is at all associated with dragons in Heroes is because dragonstone was the only weapon type that had an inheritable weapon with Distant Counter on it. Adaptive damage appears to be used to reference the fact that breath weapons calculate damage differently by game and by weapon, but Loptous's effect is intended to mimic the defensive abilities of the Earth and Dark Dragons, not necessarily their offensive abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...