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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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April Fools, only 5 units are getting weapon refines, and none of them are Legendary or Mythic!

  • Selkie's Foxkit Fang: This Blue Beast weapon grants Selkie a flat Res +3 increase and a boost to all of her stats as long as she is fighting a Melee-range enemy and has higher Res than her current foe, with the boost being 50% of the difference between her Res and her opponents Res (with a cap of +8), along with the typical effects of Cavalry beast weapons. Selkie boasts high Spd and Res, but is extremely short on Def and wishing she had a little more Atk.
  • Ylgr's Sylgr: This Blue Dagger has a Spd +3 boost and a simple Spd check; if Ylgr has higher Spd than her enemy, she gets Atk/Spd +4, along with the typical Dagger 7 effect. Ylgr boasts good Spd and servicable Atk at the cost of most of her bulk.
  • Tibarn's Hawk King Claw: A Red Beast weapon, along with a flat Atk +3 boost, Tibarn makes a guaranteed follow-up attack as long as he initiates and his target is at 100% HP, along with the typical effects of Flying beast weapons. Tibarn goes in on Atk and keeps his Spd and Def at a medium level, leaving his Res wanting.
  • Grain unit Aversa's Aversa's Night: a supportive Red Tome that, along with Res +3, inflicts all stat -3 and Panic on any enemies who are directly adjacent to any of their allies with HP at least 3 points lower than Aversas. Her HP is decently good for her release time and unit class, though her other stats are left somewhat medium to low.
  • Seasonal unit Spring Veronica's Vedhrfolnir's Egg; a Green Tome with a simple flat +3 Spd and all stat boost when Veronica's HP is higher than 75%. A requirement that is complicated by how low her bulk is, though her Atk and Spd are still good.

Personal thoughts:

I'm sure a lot of people will be more focused on Aversa... I personally hate Aversa, but maybe if her refine is good enough I'll consider at least making a decent effort to build her. Certainly not +10ing her though...
The two I'm most focused on are Selkie and Ylgr, two units I have +10ed and REALLY want to be good... well Selkie anyway. I +10ed Ylgr largely on accident anyway...
Tibarn and Veronica will be interesting to see, to say the least. Tibarn already has direct competition with... himself... so he will either be comparable or better than that iteration of himself. Veronica, meanwhile, basically can only go up from where she currently is, though she's not short on competition for best Green Mage flier.

Edited by Xenomata
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I hope Aversa gets some kind of HP recovery effect on her weapon. Aversa's Night is a Nosferatu tome in Awakening, and by being able to restore her HP it would encourage you to actually move around and do something with Aversa, rather than just leaving her sitting there the entire match. Though, knowing how refines tend to go, I wouldn't be surprised if they just removed the HP requirement entirely.

Tibarn has been pretty thoroughly power crept by his Pirate Self who can do what he does only without receiving a counter attack at all, rather than being designed to tank one. He could do with getting Heavy Blade built into his weapon, so you can free up his seal slot for something else while still letting him charge galeforce in one turn.

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

April Fools, only 5 units are getting weapon refines, and none of them are Legendary or Mythic!

That's normal, though. It's not a remix month so there is no Legendary or Mythic to refine.

The only thing abnormal about the lineup is that there's no demote, but this chunk of time didn't have a lot of non-staff/dancer demotes to begin with, so it's not really a surprise.

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On 3/10/2022 at 8:17 PM, Yggi said:

Next month is Spring Veronica and Aversa turn (if they don't decide to give Ethlyn a refine, which is very unlikely and for which I may not have the divine dew ūüėě), the others could be Ophelia, Lethe, Mordecai and maybe Ylgr.

I got Ylgr right, but Tibarn and Selkie take the spot instead of Ophelia and Lethe (who I admit would have been too soon anyway), and no 4* either.
I sincerely hope Ophelia and Surtr don't get shafted in the future like Rein, Olwen and Hector are...

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RIP the dancer refine dream. :facepalm:

Definitely have an eye on Tibarn. He was a menace for quite a while after he was introduced, though it remains to be seen if IntSys will lean into his original gimmick or his Galeforce alternative more (since Pirate Tibarn does the latter already). I want to say Aversa is another scary one, but IntSys flip-flops heavily on what free units get.

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8gy0g6xaavq81.jpg

Book 1 & 2 are basically "done" I can see CYL 4 refines this year as usual time like others CYL refines

I'm glad Tibarn got his refine, I hope good one.

Edited by Naoshi
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I'm pretty sure Ophelia and Surtr are just going to get skipped.

 

Aversa's Night

Current effect inflicts -3 to all stats and Panic to opponents with at least 3 less HP than unit with Sabotage targeting. And +3 permanent Res.

I'm expecting the HP condition to be reduced to at least 1 less HP, similar to Thokk's refine. The debuff is also probably going to be increased to either -4 or -5.

For the refine effect, I could see Flash, Stall, or increasing Special cooldown added to the Sabotage effect. She might get some combat effects, like the obligatory stat boosts, but as a support unit, she doesn't really need them and would prefer more support effects, though predicting which ones she'll get is difficult.

Hawk King Claw

Current effect is a guaranteed follow-up if the opponent's HP is 100% and +3 permanent Atk.

With just their weapons equipped, Tibarn is -1/-5/+1/-7/-5 behind Pirate Tibarn and lacks the Slaying effect that Pirate Tibarn has.

I think it's likely that the base effect will have its condition changed to if the opponent's HP is 100% or if unit initiates combat to make it more similar to other weapons.

I'd like to see something like +10 Atk and -10 Atk against the opponent (split half in the base effect and half in the refine effect) plus Heavy Blade and one of (1) the offensive half of Null Follow-Up or (2) "Null Guard" as the refine effect.

Sylgr

Current effect is +4 Atk/Spd if unit's Spd is higher than the opponent's Spd at the start of combat and +3 permanent Spd.

This thing had better be more busted than Legault's refine, given Ylgr is a 5-star unit and they have almost the exact same base stats, with Ylgr having -1/+2/+0/-2/+1.

Ylgr currently optimally runs Life and Death due to relying on a start-of-combat Spd comparison, which means she needs a stronger defensive effect on her weapon than Legault has to stay alive. I think she should get a blanket Sweep effect and nullify percentage damage reduction because no one's going to suspect that a little girl is going to murder them.

Foxkit Fang

Current effect is a boost to all stats equal to half of the difference between unit's and opponent's Res stats at the start of combat if the opponent is a melee unit, up to a maximum of 8. And +3 permanent Res.

Selkie's Atk stat is garbage. She's the second to last unit that was released with less than 30 base Atk, excluding staff units and dancers, with Panne being the last (released 4 days later).

The Res comparison is not awful, as her 41 base Res with her weapon equipped and with max Dragonflowers is enough to get around a +5 boost against the typical fast unit, but even a +8 boost is not going to make up for her low Atk stat, and the reliance on a Res comparison makes her awful against bulky units. There's also the problem that she gets no boost at all against ranged units, and I can see them removing that condition completely.

I'm expecting her to get at least +10/10/4/4 in additional stat boosts as well as some change to her base effect, likely a larger percentage of the difference being used for the boost. I'm also expecting her to get a boost in damage equal to some percentage of her Res stat, similar to other units with low Atk stats.

Maybe also Dragon Wall to make up for her also-awful Def.

Vedrfolnir's Egg

Current effect is +4 to all stats if HP is 75% or higher and +3 permanent Spd.

Doesn't work with Desperation, so I'm sure they'll do something to fix that. Probably give it Dive-Bomb. Maybe percentage damage reduction and post-combat healing. Or just change the condition to make it easier to activate, like adding the Blow condition as an alternative.

Special Hero refines have all been ridiculous, so I'm honestly not sure what to expect, especially from a weapon that is so incredibly plain on a unit that has an incredibly normal stat spread. Her banner isn't of much help with its inheritable weapons. Marisa and Loki have a weapon that grants +2 to all stats if the opponent is at 100% HP, which is just a weaker version of this weapon's effect with a different condition, and Palla has a one-off armor-effective weapon that has Null Follow-Up against opponents with weapon triangle disadvantage.

Veronica's base stats are pretty solid offensively, being only -5/+0 compared to Harmonized Sonya and -3/-1 compared to Desert Tharja with max Dragonflowers and counting the +3 permanent Spd on Vedrfolnir's Egg, so any stat boost at all on her refine effect will already put her ahead in raw stats. No idea what they'll do.

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5 hours ago, Florete said:

That's normal, though. It's not a remix month so there is no Legendary or Mythic to refine.

The only thing abnormal about the lineup is that there's no demote, but this chunk of time didn't have a lot of non-staff/dancer demotes to begin with, so it's not really a surprise.

It wasn't meant to be taken as a serious statement, it was just an opening line based on the date.

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6 hours ago, Some Jerk said:

RIP the dancer refine dream. :facepalm:

The real acid test for that will be next month.

If baby Azura gets skipped for Gharnef or if she gets a refine but no other dancers do (like with legendary Azura), then we can put this dream to bed.

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9 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

The real acid test for that will be next month.

If baby Azura gets skipped for Gharnef or if she gets a refine but no other dancers do (like with legendary Azura), then we can put this dream to bed.

Next month will also be the test for Ophelia and Surtr. If neither gets a refine, they'll go sit on the corner with Dire Thunder and regular Armads.

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57 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Next month will also be the test for Ophelia and Surtr. If neither gets a refine, they'll go sit on the corner with Dire Thunder and regular Armads.

If they were going to give Ophelia a refine, they'd have done it already. She's been skipped 16 times now (excluding units in other schedules, like the CYL schedule, Grail schedule, etc.), and every non-dancer 5-star unit from the next 5 New Heroes banners after hers has already received a refine or is receiving a refine this month except Surtr.

Surtr still technically has a chance for a few months to come, but I think Ophelia's chances have completely dried up.

Here's the list of all New Heroes banner units released starting from Ophelia up through the most recent banner with refines. The most recent refine from a banner before Ophelia's is Maribelle's 8 months ago:

  • Fates banner:
    • Flora (has refine, received 10 months ago)
    • Nina (has refine, received 14 months ago)
    • Ophelia
    • Silas (4-star, has refine, received 3 months ago)
  • Heroes banner:
    • Helbindi (has refine, received 5 months ago)
    • Laegjarn (has refine, received 8¬†months ago)
    • Laevatein (has refine, received 6 months ago)
  • Placed-highly-in-CYL-but-weren't-in-the-game¬†banner
    • Kliff (has refine, received 5 months ago)
    • Loki (has refine, received 4 months ago)
    • Owain (has refine, received 6 months ago)
  • Adrift banner
    • Camilla (has refine, received 2 months ago)
    • Corrin (has refine, received 3 months ago)
    • Corrin (has refine, received 3 months ago)
    • Mikoto (has refine, received last month)
  • Heroes banner
    • Surtr
    • Ylgr (has refine, receiving this month)
  • Tellius banner
    • Leanne (dancer)
    • Nailah (has refine, received 4 months ago)
    • Reyson (4-star, dancer)
    • Tibarn (has refine, receiving this month)
  • 3DS beasts banner
    • Kaden
    • Keaton
    • Selkie (has refine, receiving this month)
    • Velouria
  • Binding Blade banner
    • Idunn
    • Lugh (has refine, received 2 months ago)
    • Sue (has refine, received last month)
    • Thea (4-star)

 

On a completely unrelated note, while going back through this thread to grab the release dates, I apparently predicted that we'd start getting 5-star dancer refines... 14 months ago. That's... depressing.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

The real acid test for that will be next month.

If baby Azura gets skipped for Gharnef or if she gets a refine but no other dancers do (like with legendary Azura), then we can put this dream to bed.

I would say next 2 months. Since Azura was added in the same update as Gharnef, there is a chance for the Dark Pontifex to get his refinement before the Young Songstress.

If June's grails hero refinement is any of the Book 3 grails unit, then she can give up.

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13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm pretty sure Ophelia and Surtr are just going to get skipped.

Ophelia is yes to the skipping. Maybe a few years down the line when AoE specials are not quite so busted she'll get a refine along with Reinhardt/Olwen and Hector!

Surtr I think has just enough going for him to be given the pseudo-Remix treatment, since neither of his Prf skills are worth any damns in the current age (being a bulky wall who destorys everything around him don't mean much when most of the cast can just walk away after attacking him, if not just obliterate him on the spot) and he's currently the only Book Villain who isn't a Legendary or Mythic unit outside of the unreleased Veronica.

Edited by Xenomata
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I really haven't been paying attention, I didn't realize we had already used up almost every Book 2 unit in the refinery department. I've been hoping for ages that they'd finish Book 1, but with Book 2 basically being done and with a couple of its own units unlikely to get refines, I guess that's a pipedream. Anyway, I'm hoping that Norne, Caineghis, and Thea don't have to wait too long for refines, I have all three of them built up reasonably well and refines would be appreciated. I doubt any of those three would end up without refines, so, here's hoping for a definite date in the near future.

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1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I doubt any of those three would end up without refines, so, here's hoping for a definite date in the near future.

The units that appear to be being skipped were all oppressive for a long time starting at or shortly after their release (or share a weapon with one, RIP Olwen). None of the non-Legendary Book 3 units were like that, so I don't think any of them will end up being skipped.

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8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The units that appear to be being skipped were all oppressive for a long time starting at or shortly after their release (or share a weapon with one, RIP Olwen). None of the non-Legendary Book 3 units were like that, so I don't think any of them will end up being skipped.

I do not remember Hector being that bad though. It was super easy to kill him with Reinhardt since bulk was so low back then.

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27 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not remember Hector being that bad though. It was super easy to kill him with Reinhardt since bulk was so low back then.

+10 Reinhardt [+Atk] with Hone Cavalry buffs fails to kill an unsupported +0 Hector [=HP, =Res] by 2 HP before Skill Inheritance.

+10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Death Blow 3) with Hone Cavalry buffs fails to kill an unsupported +6 Hector [=HP, =Res] with his base kit by 1 HP after Skill Inheritance.

Reinhardt also just didn't exist for the first month of Hector's reign.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I do not remember Hector being that bad though. It was super easy to kill him with Reinhardt since bulk was so low back then.

Then you don't remember correctly. Hector basically was the meta for a while, only running into some trouble when Brave Lyn released. Reinhardt was much less common to have back then and even when you had him, it didn't take much for Hector to survive him or kill him first with Vantage. Vantage Hector could wall teams like Fallen Edelgard did on her release.

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7 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Ophelia is yes to the skipping. Maybe a few years down the line when AoE specials are not quite so busted she'll get a refine along with Reinhardt/Olwen and Hector!

Surtr I think has just enough going for him to be given the pseudo-Remix treatment, since neither of his Prf skills are worth any damns in the current age (being a bulky wall who destorys everything around him don't mean much when most of the cast can just walk away after attacking him, if not just obliterate him on the spot) and he's currently the only Book Villain who isn't a Legendary or Mythic unit outside of the unreleased Veronica.

Surtr is still a great unit for helping uninvested characters in Heroic Ordeals.

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

I do not remember Hector being that bad though. It was super easy to kill him with Reinhardt since bulk was so low back then.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

+10 Reinhardt [+Atk] with Hone Cavalry buffs fails to kill an unsupported +0 Hector [=HP, =Res] by 2 HP before Skill Inheritance.

+10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Death Blow 3) with Hone Cavalry buffs fails to kill an unsupported +6 Hector [=HP, =Res] with his base kit by 1 HP after Skill Inheritance.

Reinhardt also just didn't exist for the first month of Hector's reign.

2 hours ago, Florete said:

Then you don't remember correctly. Hector basically was the meta for a while, only running into some trouble when Brave Lyn released. Reinhardt was much less common to have back then and even when you had him, it didn't take much for Hector to survive him or kill him first with Vantage. Vantage Hector could wall teams like Fallen Edelgard did on her release.

Oh, right, and getting a unit to +10 at 5-star rarity was much harder to do that early after the game's release. Not only did it take a long time for most players to actually pull the needed 11 copies of the unit, but the 220,000 feathers needed to promote that many copies to 5-star rarity was a much larger hurdle to get around back when resources were harder to obtain and players didn't have many resources already saved up due to how new the game was.

A +0 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Death Blow 3) with Hone Cavalry buffs only gets an exact kill against an unsupported +0 Hector [=HP, =Res]. Merges or a beneficial Asset on Hector could easily foil a low-merge Reinhardt, and, as mentioned previously, a +6 Hector with neutral defenses was literally unkillable by Reinhardt unless you also had Spur Atk or Goad Cavalry on your team, neither of which were common.

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I remember content like the Lunatic Ursula GHB back in the day where if you didn't have Hector, you had to do all sorts of fancy shenanigans to stay away from the enemies, particularly some Poison Daggers I think? Whereas if you had Hector, you just waltzed into range and killed everything.

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10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Surtr is still a great unit for helping uninvested characters in Heroic Ordeals.

That's worth about as much as you are willing to give, and really Heroic Ordeals aren't so hard that you need that kind of support to clear them based on how powerful units have been lately (unless the enemy team has equally strong units)

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2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

That's worth about as much as you are willing to give, and really Heroic Ordeals aren't so hard that you need that kind of support to clear them based on how powerful units have been lately (unless the enemy team has equally strong units)

Yeah, unless if the Heroic Ordeal is for a unit that clearly isn’t very good at offense.

The one for Merlinus in particular sucked because some jackass on the dev team thought it’d be funny to include Fallen Ike and Fallen M!Corrin in it.

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25 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

The one for Merlinus in particular sucked because some jackass on the dev team thought it’d be funny to include Fallen Ike and Fallen M!Corrin in it.

That sounds freaking hilarious. I will have to check it out later myself.

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