Jump to content

General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just now, XRay said:

He has not been able to deal with ranged units for a quite long time now. Alm: Saint King and Celica: Saintly Seraphim shred him to bits in Arena, and Blazing nukes turn him to ash, and they have been around for a long time.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say because that's literally what I just said. Just because it was a long time ago when he was last able to handle common ranged units doesn't change the fact that he was able to "before".

And not being able to handle ranged units doesn't change the fact that he's still one of the most reliable wall breakers for dealing with all of the annoying melee units with high Spd and damage reduction as long as you're good at handling positioning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't remember if I said this before or I just thought it, but I feel like Surtr is more likely to get the Legendary/Remix treatment than a regular Refine, given that he:

  • Has an outdated Prf weapon (Threaten Health was a lot scarier when... actually nevermind I don't ever remember being scared by it, not when Reposition has always existed, and even now Canto seems to be on every other unit who is already more than able to surpass Surtr's defenses. Like Ice Dragon said, better under Player control)
  • Has an outdated Prf C Passive (see above, though then again Surtr's Portent feels just as lacking when taking the current meta into account)
  • Outdated skill set (having one of the first Tier 4 passives is... showing its age, and Wary Fighter could stand to be something else. Bonfire is what it is)

Though there is also the factor that Surtr is... not a young cute/hot chick... or cute loli... or milf-y woman... THAT IS TO SAY HE PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH OF A FANBASE THAT WOULD CARE ENOUGH TO WANT TO SUMMON HIM.

Edited by Xenomata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I don't remember if I said this before or I just thought it, but I feel like Surtr is more likely to get the Legendary/Remix treatment than a regular Refine...

I think that if Surtr gets a remix, then all heroes with Prf skills should get that as well, like normal heroes (Sigurd and Zelgius, for example) and even Brave Heroes (remixes for Ike and Lyn, and maybe give prf skills for Roy and Lucina, for example). Because I don't think Surtr should get a special threatment just because he is the main villain of Book 2.

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Threaten Health was a lot scarier when... actually nevermind I don't ever remember being scared by it

It was scary enough to ban Surtr from being a random unit in Training Tower and Tempest Trials. I even believe Surtr cannot be a guardian unit for Resonant Battles, while units like Ascended Idunn can.

Surtr was the type of unit that you needed a proper counter to him, or you would have some troubles against him. He lasted for some months, but then counters to him started to appears or players adepted their teams to go against him. It was a similar case to Fallen Edelgard, I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say because that's literally what I just said. Just because it was a long time ago when he was last able to handle common ranged units doesn't change the fact that he was able to "before".

And not being able to handle ranged units doesn't change the fact that he's still one of the most reliable wall breakers for dealing with all of the annoying melee units with high Spd and damage reduction as long as you're good at handling positioning.

I do not think he was able to deal with ranged units before either, cause he was released around the same time as Ophelia, and she curb stomps him. Alm: Saint King was released a few months after and he showed up a lot during Earth season. He probably did okay in super high scoring Arena since I think it was mostly just armor teams at the highest tier during that time, but he still had to be careful of armor effective Weapons paired with Bold Fighter.

7 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Surtr was the type of unit that you needed a proper counter to him, or you would have some troubles against him. He lasted for some months, but then counters to him started to appears or players adepted their teams to go against him. It was a similar case to Fallen Edelgard, I think.

A hard counter is absolutely not necessary at all to deal with super bulky units like Surtr (he is not super bulky anymore though; he is super fragile these days) outside of Aether Raids, since that is the only mode with a meaningful time limit. A plain old Firesweep archer will do the job just fine, and if more players simply invested in one, they would not be having issues with 99% of problematic units. Firesweep Bow was also released two months after the game launched, so the solution has been there the whole time and many people act like it did not exist or for some reason refuse to use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I think that if Surtr gets a remix, then all heroes with Prf skills should get that as well, like normal heroes (Sigurd and Zelgius, for example) and even Brave Heroes (remixes for Ike and Lyn, and maybe give prf skills for Roy and Lucina, for example). Because I don't think Surtr should get a special threatment just because he is the main villain of Book 2.

 

He's already had a refine, but I'd like to see Arvis get a prf skill boost to Renewal Ring. Upping the recovery to 15 or 20 (or even full) probably wouldn't be that great on Arvis since you don't want him to get damage in the first place, but if Renewal Ring can get a Renewal Ring 2 it means we can get Renewal 4 for other characters for every turn healing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, XRay said:

A hard counter is absolutely not necessary at all to deal with super bulky units like Surtr (he is not super bulky anymore though; he is super fragile these days) outside of Aether Raids, since that is the only mode with a meaningful time limit. A plain old Firesweep archer will do the job just fine, and if more players simply invested in one, they would not be having issues with 99% of problematic units. Firesweep Bow was also released two months after the game launched, so the solution has been there the whole time and many people act like it did not exist or for some reason refuse to use it.

Bringing a Firesweep unit to a map that has Surtr as enemy is already using a proper Counter to him, so I was not wrong about my previous statement.

I also talked about him in the past, not present. Surtr is not a threat these days anymore.

23 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He's already had a refine, but I'd like to see Arvis get a prf skill boost to Renewal Ring. Upping the recovery to 15 or 20 (or even full) probably wouldn't be that great on Arvis since you don't want him to get damage in the first place, but if Renewal Ring can get a Renewal Ring 2 it means we can get Renewal 4 for other characters for every turn healing.

I was thinking about Arvis as well, and one idea I had is Recovery Ring II also having Mystic Boost built-in, so he recovers 6 HP after combat as well and nullifies adept damage. Since he has more Res than Def, that would help against dragons.

Also, giving Recovery Ring II to Arvis could mean giving his a 300 SP B skill. I never liked that his B skill, and Arden's, are 200 SP skills just because they are F2P units. These skills are not even 240 SP. Recovery Ring scores less than Renewel 3, and that's dumb. It should score more or at least the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, XRay said:

A plain old Firesweep archer will do the job just fine, and if more players simply invested in one, they would not be having issues with 99% of problematic units. Firesweep Bow was also released two months after the game launched, so the solution has been there the whole time and many people act like it did not exist or for some reason refuse to use it.

That meaning Firesweep Bow and two stacks of Poison Strike, right? Maybe with Fatal Smoke added in to make sure the health lost can't be recovered?

In fairness though, it's not like Firesweep Bow was common like FSlance or FSsword are. It remains locked to Faye, a 5* unit who is now in the 4* special summon pool and, in a weeks time, as a Resplendent freebie. Your best option to get a FSbow, should your luck be that awful to not have seen it for 5 years, would be to get it on a Forma unit (like the currently running Python) if you didn't just say screw it and run with a melee FS weapon instead (which may even be preferred to some as Ascended Fjorm exists)

...I don't like that you're implying people don't use the one unit type that ruins literally anyone not running Null C-Disrupt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I do not think he was able to deal with ranged units before either, cause he was released around the same time as Ophelia, and she curb stomps him. Alm: Saint King was released a few months after and he showed up a lot during Earth season. He probably did okay in super high scoring Arena since I think it was mostly just armor teams at the highest tier during that time, but he still had to be careful of armor effective Weapons paired with Bold Fighter.

Alm was released almost five and a half months after Surtr.

Surtr didn't "do okay" in Arena. He was literally the single best unit in the game for Arena. This was back when each kill with a bonus unit gave you 3 points, so you needed to get all 28 kills in an Arena run with a bonus unit. Surtr being able to deal out-of-combat damage meant that you would never be at risk of accidentally killing an enemy unit with the wrong unit.

Also, Surtr was never threatened by armor-effective weapons because enemies with armor-effective weapon have to reach him first. Enemies need to enter combat in order to damage Surtr. Surtr does not need to enter combat to damage enemies.

 

Also, Ophelia was not a threat to him, at least in the high Arena, because she didn't score high enough to appear on defense teams in the high Arena. She could run B Duel Infantry 3, but would then fail to kill Surtr in a single hit, and Surtr could be set up to be able to survive the entire round of combat with some Res boosts.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Firesweep Bow was also released two months after the game launched, so the solution has been there the whole time and many people act like it did not exist or for some reason refuse to use it.

And you're acting like everyone has access to a 5-star-exclusive unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I was thinking about Arvis as well, and one idea I had is Recovery Ring II also having Mystic Boost built-in, so he recovers 6 HP after combat as well and nullifies adept damage. Since he has more Res than Def, that would help against dragons.

That would indeed be far more useful and practical than simply boosting the recovery rate as I suggested. Though Recovery Ring does provide a 100% recovery at the start of each turn in Genealogy (I think), and I kind of like the idea of a unit who is flimsy and easy to kill, but automatically restores all HP each turn (of course it wouldn't be useful as it's so easy to orko most units and Alvis in particular, but I still find the idea amusing).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

That meaning Firesweep Bow and two stacks of Poison Strike, right? Maybe with Fatal Smoke added in to make sure the health lost can't be recovered?

In fairness though, it's not like Firesweep Bow was common like FSlance or FSsword are. It remains locked to Faye, a 5* unit who is now in the 4* special summon pool and, in a weeks time, as a Resplendent freebie. Your best option to get a FSbow, should your luck be that awful to not have seen it for 5 years, would be to get it on a Forma unit (like the currently running Python) if you didn't just say screw it and run with a melee FS weapon instead (which may even be preferred to some as Ascended Fjorm exists)

...I don't like that you're implying people don't use the one unit type that ruins literally anyone not running Null C-Disrupt.

Faye is available every few months on average, appearing thrice in 2017, twice in 2018 (Surtr debuted towards the end), six times in 2019 (and got its availability boosted as special 4* moving forward), thrice in 2020, once in 2021 (two months after Edelgard: Hegemon Husk debuted), and probably about twice in 2022.

Firesweep Bow was not cheap at first, but its availability dramatically increased following Surtr's release, and it was cheaper to obtain with the release of Revival Foci.

Fatal Smoke is not really needed until Edelgard: Hegemon Husk came along, but even when she came along, hard counter after hard counter keeps getting released with almost every new Focus and batch of Refinement, so we have quite a lot of options to choose from a few months after her release. We also just got Ishtar: Echoing Thunder, with her vanilla kit and Ascended Atk at +0+0, can kill Edelgard: Hegemon Husk +10+10; and a Sacred Seal and a bit of Flowers will give her enough oomph to deal with any Res stacked ones. We are getting to the point where some raw damage nukes can deal with super bulky units without specializing into a tank busting nor utilizing a Blazing set up.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And you're acting like everyone has access to a 5-star-exclusive unit.

Faye was basically available every two months in 2019 following Surtr's release at the end of 2018, so players literally have a whole year to nab one. She is also on a predictable schedule now so it is easier to plan and budget for her.

If players can sink resources into far more expensive Arena cores and super tank teams, they can spare the Orbs to get a Firesweep Bow.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

If players can sink resources into far more expensive Arena cores and super tank teams, they can spare the Orbs to get a Firesweep Bow.

Yeah. And the average player doesn't have the resources to sink into "far more expensive Arena cores and super tank teams".

 

I generally get the impression that most F2P players are saving their orbs for CYL, Special Heroes banners, and whoever their favorite characters are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a day 1 player and I only ever pulled 1 Faye.  I have a lot of more important things to spend my orbs on.
I feel that's easier to get Firesweep Bow on a Forma unit than anything else, if you ever need one unit like that (I don't need, so...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, no Faye here either, she's the fourth-oldest unit in the game that I've never pulled. Top five being Ryoma, Olwen, Karel, Faye and Mist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm F2P and I don't spend orbs on fodder. Or merges, for that matter.

Personally my oldest missing units are Lucina, Minerva, Sanaki, Karel, and Mist. Think I have everyone else from the first six months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Yep, no Faye here either, she's the fourth-oldest unit in the game that I've never pulled. Top five being Ryoma, Olwen, Karel, Faye and Mist.

I think Karel is the only one of them I'm missing from those five. The super old unit I just never seem to get is og Ephraim (I think, as far as I remember now).

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah. And the average player doesn't have the resources to sink into "far more expensive Arena cores and super tank teams".

 

I generally get the impression that most F2P players are saving their orbs for CYL, Special Heroes banners, and whoever their favorite characters are.

The average free player gets at least three thousand Orbs per year, and many are able to merge their favorite units to +10 and outfit them with expensive skills. One or even two Firesweep Bows over their entire Heroes career is not going to break their Orb bank.

Even if Firesweep Bow is still too expensive and players are not lucky enough to get one off Focus, there are many other options like Ishtar and Alm: Imperial Ascent that players might have gotten off Focus that can do the job just as well if not better. Joshua: Resolute Tempest and Ishtar: Echoing Thunder were released relatively recently and they can be guaranteed summon. And Dimitri: Savage Boar even debuted on the same Focus that Edelgard: Hegemon Husk debuted in, and he can handle her just fine too.

You can spend less than 200 Orbs to get a bulky unit counter and still save for your favorites. And an investment into a Firesweep archer will stand the test of time and pay you back in spades breezing past headaches and frustration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd hate to point this out again, but as far as Firesweep weapons go Faye does not have the only one. Both Roderick and Soleil have inheritable Firesweep weapons in the 3*/4* pool, on top of Prf versions of both (with Soleil even having a good refine with Atk/Spd +5 and Special Charge boost), and if the only goal is to have one or two Firesweep chippers you do not need to be using a Firesweep Bow specifically. Yes it is the "better" option if your goal is safely chipping away, but there's still ways to work around it.

I understand that not everyone has Faye (or is likely to buy her Resplendent), but the same cannot possibly be said about Roddy or Soleil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, XRay said:

Even if Firesweep Bow is still too expensive and players are not lucky enough to get one off Focus, there are many other options like Ishtar and Alm: Imperial Ascent that players might have gotten off Focus that can do the job just as well if not better. Joshua: Resolute Tempest and Ishtar: Echoing Thunder were released relatively recently and they can be guaranteed summon. And Dimitri: Savage Boar even debuted on the same Focus that Edelgard: Hegemon Husk debuted in, and he can handle her just fine too.

This part, I can agree with. There are reasonably accessible units with powerful built-in Firesweep effects, as well as ways to build your own with NFU+Windsweep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a player who's been playing every day since launch day, I only JUST recently (as in, this year/very late 2021) got Legendary Hector, Helbindi, Lene, and Kjelle. And I STILL don't have original Leo. I have only ever pulled Faye one single time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I'd hate to point this out again, but as far as Firesweep weapons go Faye does not have the only one. Both Roderick and Soleil have inheritable Firesweep weapons in the 3*/4* pool, on top of Prf versions of both (with Soleil even having a good refine with Atk/Spd +5 and Special Charge boost), and if the only goal is to have one or two Firesweep chippers you do not need to be using a Firesweep Bow specifically. Yes it is the "better" option if your goal is safely chipping away, but there's still ways to work around it.

I understand that not everyone has Faye (or is likely to buy her Resplendent), but the same cannot possibly be said about Roddy or Soleil.

I left melee Firesweep out of it since they do not kill as fast as more specialized melee tank-busting Sweepers, and they are not as easy to use as their archer counterparts.

But yeah, if we include them, players do not have much excuse. However, since plenty of players have access to melee Firesweep but still complain about Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, maybe they have tried to use those Weapons and they might have a point. Edelgard: Hegemon Husk does have much better mobility than your run-of-the-mill bulky armor units and slightly better mobility than infantry units. If that is the case, that is fine, but spending Orbs will absolutely solve that problem. And you do not have to spend a lot either depending on the Focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, XRay said:

The average free player gets at least three thousand Orbs per year, and many are able to merge their favorite units to +10 and outfit them with expensive skills. One or even two Firesweep Bows over their entire Heroes career is not going to break their Orb bank.

Even if Firesweep Bow is still too expensive and players are not lucky enough to get one off Focus, there are many other options like Ishtar and Alm: Imperial Ascent that players might have gotten off Focus that can do the job just as well if not better. Joshua: Resolute Tempest and Ishtar: Echoing Thunder were released relatively recently and they can be guaranteed summon. And Dimitri: Savage Boar even debuted on the same Focus that Edelgard: Hegemon Husk debuted in, and he can handle her just fine too.

You can spend less than 200 Orbs to get a bulky unit counter and still save for your favorites. And an investment into a Firesweep archer will stand the test of time and pay you back in spades breezing past headaches and frustration.

Over the entire length of the game, sure, but players typically don't plan on time scales that long except on units that they actually have an attachment to (like CYL or reruns of favorite units). 200 orbs is about 50-70% of the orbs a player receives in a month, and the orbs earned each month already need to be split across three new unit banners and savings for future banners. It may be optimal to save orbs to pull for a copy of Faye, but that assumes players are expected to play optimally, which is not a valid assumption. Normative statements like "players should have pulled for a copy of Faye" are not a statement of reality.

Ishtar is only able to run a single stack of Poison Strike instead of two and is unable to Sweep dragons and tomes. Brave Alm is a melee unit and suffers the restrictions mentioned below on top of being unable to Sweep dragons (effective damage breaks through most, but not the bulkiest ones) and being unable to Sweep fast tanks. Pulling for a spark still costs a minimum of 135 orbs (full sessions and 4 tickets) and needs to be weighed against the other units on the banner. Fallen Dimitri being released on the same banner as Fallen Edelgard is an immediate blow to him because Edelgard was clearly the better pick for a spark, and Ascended Joshua was in the unfortunate situation of being the only unit on his banner worth pulling for, making it harder to justify spending orbs on his banner in the first place.

And Ascended Ishtar isn't a Sweeper unless you're planning on getting rid of her follow-up and relying purely on her Brave effect.

 

It may be optimal to have a Sweeper on hand, but you absolutely cannot expect "just use a Sweeper" to be the recommended solution to a threat.

 

6 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I'd hate to point this out again, but as far as Firesweep weapons go Faye does not have the only one. Both Roderick and Soleil have inheritable Firesweep weapons in the 3*/4* pool, on top of Prf versions of both (with Soleil even having a good refine with Atk/Spd +5 and Special Charge boost), and if the only goal is to have one or two Firesweep chippers you do not need to be using a Firesweep Bow specifically. Yes it is the "better" option if your goal is safely chipping away, but there's still ways to work around it.

I understand that not everyone has Faye (or is likely to buy her Resplendent), but the same cannot possibly be said about Roddy or Soleil.

The problem with melee Firesweep is the fact that they have a much harder time getting back out of range of the unit you're trying to chip.

It takes 3 actions per turn to use a ranged Firesweep unit against a melee opponent with 2 movement range (attack, dance, Reposition the dancer). It takes 4 actions per turn to use a melee Firesweep unit against the same opponent (attack, dance, Reposition the dancer, Reposition the attacker).

Additionally, melee Firesweep units are more easily blocked by terrain, both due to the fact that they have to travel over more terrain to reach the opponent, but also the fact that the three supporting actions to get the unit out are also affected by more terrain.

Yes, they can be used as a replacement when you don't have access to ranged Firesweep units, but their shortcomings are significant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, XRay said:

However, since plenty of players have access to melee Firesweep but still complain about Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, maybe they have tried to use those Weapons and they might have a point. Edelgard: Hegemon Husk does have much better mobility than your run-of-the-mill bulky armor units and slightly better mobility than infantry units.

If the problem is specifically Hegemon... I mean, Boey exists. Raventome prf with a melee/physical conditional Close Counter, give him TA3 and QR3 (or even just QR2) and Hegemon can't do a whole lot to him, while he can do a fair bit to her. Merge him up for the best results, dragonflowers optional. I'm sure he could get better results with more expensive skills, Pulse Smoke specifically comes to mind, and some outside team support from units like Picnic Genny, Winter Sephiran, Flayn, or Elimine, but I'm just listing the bare minimum you would need to specifically counter Hegemon using Boey.

It's not a perfect end-all counter to everything of course, but he works and he's a 3*/4* unit.

2 hours ago, XRay said:

If that is the case, that is fine, but spending Orbs will absolutely solve that problem. And you do not have to spend a lot either depending on the Focus.

If you're just doing regular summoning then yes, and with the 4* special pool existing it's even theoretically possible to eventually get Faye at any time as long as you aren't avoiding Colorless orbs. It may, however, become a problem for players who are literally not spending ANY orbs, which a F2P player is more likely to do in order to be ready for getting the strongest units.

I am not F2P at all so I wouldn't know what their mindset is, nor do I claim to try and understand, but I can very easily see that being a big reason as to why so many people do not yet have even Year 1 units still. Those people in New Heroes threads who say "skipping this banner" are legitimately skipping the banner, ergo no summons outside of the max 5 freebies given.

Edited by Xenomata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Over the entire length of the game, sure, but players typically don't plan on time scales that long except on units that they actually have an attachment to (like CYL or reruns of favorite units). 200 orbs is about 50-70% of the orbs a player receives in a month, and the orbs earned each month already need to be split across three new unit banners and savings for future banners. It may be optimal to save orbs to pull for a copy of Faye, but that assumes players are expected to play optimally, which is not a valid assumption. Normative statements like "players should have pulled for a copy of Faye" are not a statement of reality.

If players can spend Orbs on their favorites because it brings them joy, they can spend Orbs on one unit to help them avoid misery. If the goal is to get as much resources as possible to fund favorites, I think it makes a lot of sense to invest a bit into a Firesweeper so you can easily coast repetitive PvP and ranking modes without much thought, and focus the rest of your attention and energy in enjoying your favorites.

43 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ishtar is only able to run a single stack of Poison Strike instead of two and is unable to Sweep dragons and tomes. Brave Alm is a melee unit and suffers the restrictions mentioned below on top of being unable to Sweep dragons (effective damage breaks through most, but not the bulkiest ones) and being unable to Sweep fast tanks. Pulling for a spark still costs a minimum of 135 orbs (full sessions and 4 tickets) and needs to be weighed against the other units on the banner. Fallen Dimitri being released on the same banner as Fallen Edelgard is an immediate blow to him because Edelgard was clearly the better pick for a spark, and Ascended Joshua was in the unfortunate situation of being the only unit on his banner worth pulling for, making it harder to justify spending orbs on his banner in the first place.

Watersweep is practically free, so Ishtar can use whatever Sweep the player needs more of. Alm: Imperial Ascent cannot Sweep dragons, but that is what Watersweep is for and you can slap that on to other units with Null Follow-Up Weapons. I do not think spending 175 Orbs in the worst scenario to get a guaranteed summon is a bad idea, since you are bound to get the guaranteed summon that will make your Heroes experience easier, and you have a chance to get one of the 5* exclusive in the special 4* pool too. Forces of Will Focus ran twice about half a year apart, so you can pick up both units up. 175 Orbs for Joshua: Resolute Tempest is not a bad deal in my opinion, and while Neimi is a dud, Rennac is pretty good fodder and his dagger can let any thief be a Sweeper.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

And Ascended Ishtar isn't a Sweeper unless you're planning on getting rid of her follow-up and relying purely on her Brave effect.

The beauty of Ishtar: Echoing Thunder is that she does not need to be a Sweeper to shut down Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, and she can do so with minimal investment against an Edelgard: Hegemon Husk with maximum investment. If for some reason the player is really paranoid about facing Edelgard: Hegemon Husk running Deflect Magic and/or triple Legendaries/Mythics boosting Res, then just throw Windsweep on her.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

It may be optimal to have a Sweeper on hand, but you absolutely cannot expect "just use a Sweeper" to be the recommended solution to a threat.

Sweepers have been in the game since like almost the beginning of the game. Refusing to acknowledge and use Firesweep (and other Sweeps) is like refusing to acknowledge and use Dancers/Singers exist and are core to player phase strategies. You can run a player phase team with no Dancers/Singers, but it is going to be giant pain in the ass to rely solely on Reposition.

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

It may be optimal to have a Sweeper on hand, but you absolutely cannot expect "just use a Sweeper" to be the recommended solution to a threat.

She and Save armors in general are the main subjects of complaints lately, so I figure people want somebody who can handle Edelgard: Hegemon Husk and similarly bulky units.

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

If you're just doing regular summoning then yes, and with the 4* special pool existing it's even theoretically possible to eventually get Faye at any time as long as you aren't avoiding Colorless orbs. It may, however, become a problem for players who are literally not spending ANY orbs, which a F2P player is more likely to do in order to be ready for getting the strongest units.

I am not F2P at all so I wouldn't know what their mindset is, nor do I claim to try and understand, but I can very easily see that being a big reason as to why so many people do not yet have even Year 1 units still. Those people in New Heroes threads who say "skipping this banner" are legitimately skipping the banner, ergo no summons outside of the max 5 freebies given.

Free players should still spend Orbs on their account's economy (cannot think of a better word) to get more resources overtime. It makes no sense to focus so narrowly on only favorites that players neglect their economy, which means they get less resources to spend on their favorites down the line. Players do not have to aim to be at the very tip top in every mode, and the effort and resources to do so probably is not worth it for the rewards, but the required investment to be close to the top is pretty low and you still get pretty decent rewards for doing so. Lots of players neglect Aether Raids and just do Auto Dispatch there, but once you have a super tank team and got enough Ladders, it really is not that difficult to send your super tank out and watch the enemy team suicide on to your super tank 50% of the time (the other 50% the super tank will probably die, but that is what Ladders are for).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, XRay said:

She and Save armors in general are the main subjects of complaints lately, so I figure people want somebody who can handle Edelgard: Hegemon Husk and similarly bulky units.

I assume this is in response to my Boey comment, but apparently my words were turned into Ice Dragon's comment directly above it? Very confusing...

There's certainly more than a few units in the 3*/4* pool who could handle popular Save teams, especially considering those teams completely fall apart if you just don't attack them on PP. Boey being one example able to tank physical Blue and Colorless threats specifically is worth mentioning (and now that I think about it Brave Hector is still pretty popular), a built Silas could deal effective damage and absorb hits from physical armors, Seliph has access to two different refines to fit the situation, Pain+ staff units... it's not perfect obviously, but it's certainly still possible if it's all you can access.

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Free players should still spend Orbs on their account's economy (cannot think of a better word) to get more resources overtime. It makes no sense to focus so narrowly on only favorites that players neglect their economy, which means they get less resources to spend on their favorites down the line. Players do not have to aim to be at the very tip top in every mode, and the effort and resources to do so probably is not worth it for the rewards, but the required investment to be close to the top is pretty low and you still get pretty decent rewards for doing so. Lots of players neglect Aether Raids and just do Auto Dispatch there, but once you have a super tank team and got enough Ladders, it really is not that difficult to send your super tank out and watch the enemy team suicide on to your super tank 50% of the time (the other 50% the super tank will probably die, but that is what Ladders are for).

It's hard to say for certain as an outsider, like I said I don't claim to understand those kinda of players. Maybe they think it's worth it to only be summoning on the absolute best banners, and maybe that's just where all their SI resources come from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, any orbs spent on fodder would be too many, since it's giving up part of my future character lineup in exchange for a bit of extra power I don't need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...