General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[DefyingFates]

I'm excited to see what Ephraim gets! Also, this confirms a Book VII reveal on the 5th, since we're bound to get Book VII data in that update too. I guess the reveal date was obvious, but it's nice to get confirmation, implicit or otherwise.

[Diovani Bressan]

I am surprised they skipped Sirius and Forsyth to have Duo Ephraim earlier... Skipping Dimitri was already expected by me.

I am pretty excited for Winter Marth's refinement. I hope it's a good one.

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am surprised they skipped Sirius and Forsyth to have Duo Ephraim earlier... Skipping Dimitri was already expected by me.

The poor guys were trapped in bizarre limbo hellscape for a year or so, I think they earned an early refine.

...though naturally that means there's a chance it'll be worse than if they'd just waited a few more months. Hmm...

[Ice Dragon]

Translation notes:

Retainer's Report is "参謀役の書" (sanbō-yaku no sho), "Advisor's Tome". "参謀役" (sanbō-yaku) more literally means "(person in the) role of advisor".

 

The list of new refines looks so empty after a month with 2 remixes, even though it's just the same "3 units from the standard pool, 1 Grail unit, and 1 Special Hero" as usual.

Hubert: Retainer's Report

Currently has Raudhrfox.

Raudhrfox's effect is just a generic stat effect, so it's functionally indistinguishable from the obligatory stat boosts on new refinery weapons.

Hubert himself doesn't really stand out. He has one of the highest Atk stats among infantry red tomes while also having an okay Spd stat, but it's not a particularly good look when your stats are extremely similar to Pelleas's from the Grail pool.

Thankfully, he is somehow a 5-star unit and will probably get something good, though none of his current weapon, his stat spread, or his base skills really give any hints as to what it will be. Ideally, though, he should get a guaranteed follow-up so that he can focus more on his high Atk stat, using his okay Spd stat to break follow-up prevention on slower units.

Hubert's personal skill in Three Houses, Officer Duty, increases his damage when using gambits. As gambits don't exist in Heroes, this could potentially be incorporated as a damage bonus on Special activation and a focus on charging up his Special skill. However, given that they've recently been reluctant to give units weapons that enable AoE Specials outside of extremely premium units, it's somewhat unlikely that they'll give Hubert anything that specifically synergizes with his default Growing Thunder.

Nah: Oracle's Breath

Base effect is:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If unit has a stat Bonus:
  • Follow-up prevention
• Dragonstone common effect

Nah is clearly designed to be a giant ball of stats with as many stacks of Bonus Doubler as she can get, and I wouldn't be surprised if her weapon got another stack of Bonus Doubler. This would also make up for the fact that she loses a stack of Bonus Doubler if she wants to run Distant Counter.

She has Quick Riposte in the B slot, so it's unlikely that she'll gain a guaranteed follow-up on her weapon, meaning it's likely that she'll get some form of percentage damage reduction on her weapon to make up for the fact that she can't simultaneously run Dragon Wall or Dragon's Wrath in that slot, even though Quick Riposte 4 now grants percentage damage reduction. It's worth noting that Nah has higher Def than Res, so it's possible that if she has a Dragon Wall-like effect, it might be based on Def instead of Res, like Blue Lion Rule.

Null Panic is also likely. If they want to be even fancier, they could also give her the Unity effect in order to also counter regular Penalties.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they updated the condition on her weapon's base effect to always be active on enemy phase and to also include non-stat Bonuses.

Given that they really want players to stop using Savior and use Bulwark instead, she could totally get Bulwark, too.

Duo Ephraim: Reginleif

Base effect is:

• Effective damage against armor and cavalry
• Permanent +3 Atk
• If Atk is greater than opponent's Atk or if unit has +1 movement:
  • Guaranteed follow-up

All he really wants is more Atk and more damage mitigation. His default Heavy Blade 4 is quite outdated, so it's possible that it will be incorporated into his weapon so that he can run a better A skill.

Modern weapons for paired units often have a reference to the unit in back, and it would be cool if they added the Litrraven effect.

Duo Marth: Tanngrisnir

Base effect is:

• Bow common effect
• Permanent +3 Spd
• If unit has a stat Bonus or if unit has +1 movement:
  • +3 to all stats in combat
  • +1 Special charge rate to unit's attacks

Marth is still the fastest ranged armor in the game and his base Spd stat is in a many-way tie for the second highest of all ranged units in the game. However, his poor movement range makes him a generally less viable option compared to the huge number of ranged units with similar Spd stats and better movement types.

Fast ranged tanks haven't had a place in the meta for a while due to their inability to use Sacred Cowl and Aegis to counter Deadeye and Lethality, so it's likely he'll remain an offensive unit in accordance to his base kit.

Being an armor means that Marth doesn't have access to Atk/Spd Oath 4, which would otherwise have fixed his poor mobility as well as granted him a better self-buff than his default Joint Hone Spd. Being ranged means that he doesn't have access to Assault Troop. In order to make him actually viable as an offensive unit, he needs to get one of these effects or, at the very least, +1 movement.

Daring Fighter means that he doesn't really need damage mitigation, though it wouldn't hurt to have percentage damage reduction on the opponent's first attack or Dodge outright.

Like Nah, it's likely that the condition on the weapon's base effect will be updated to include all Bonuses and possibly also be permanently active on player phase.

Kronya: Athame

Base effect is:

• Permanent +3 Res
• If opponent's HP is 99% or lower at start of combat:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat
  • Vantage effect
• Dagger common effect

Athame is designed very specifically to go for Vantage kills after first softening up the opponent.

At the minimum, it ideally wants Sweep (or some other defensive effect to make sure Kronya survives initiating combat), Fatal Smoke, and Pain+, though Fatal Smoke can at least be offloaded into her C slot.

It would be nice to get Special Spiral so that Kronya could run Special Spiral in the B slot to fully charge Lethality after every round of combat. Otherwise, she's stuck with just Glimmer or Ruptured Sky, which isn't quite as scary.

Stuff that would be nice to have are Panic Smoke, "Isolation Smoke" (to block Harsh Command), and Close Counter (so that Kronya can run Finish instead of Close Salvo). Dull could also work in place of Panic Smoke, but Panic Smoke is better. In-combat Panic would be even better still.

It would also be nice to have the condition for the weapon's base effect upgraded to also include if the opponent has a Penalty, as it kind of sucks that the current weapon will almost never get the +5 Atk/Spd on Kronya's first round of combat.

[Xenomata]

In the midst of a new war, here are some weapons that may help you sway the battle your way.

Note that Ephraim's refine gets the Even Tempest effect. Odd Tempest also exists. You can effectively give him a permanent Movement +1 if you inherit the Odd Tempest skill to him, which frankly I don't know why I never see the Tempest skills on him before this update.

Remember that [Exposure], previously only found on Summer Thorr, forces the inflicted target to take 10 damage from all attacks. I believe the hip kids call this "True Damage?"

Edited December 5, 2022 by Xenomata

[Ice Dragon]

Hubert: Retainer's Report

Base effect is:

• If opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat or if opponent has a Penalty:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Refine effect is:

• When unit uses a Rally or movement Assist skill or is the target of one:
  • Inflicts -7 Atk/Def/Res, Guard, and Exposure to enemies in cardinal directions of both unit and target after movement (if applicable)
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat
  • +4 to all stats in combat

Hubert gets +8 to all stats and a guaranteed follow-up, which allows him to actually run an Atk Asset instead of a Spd Asset and leverage his high base Atk stat. That's really nice.

He also gets a really good support effect, inflicting a bunch of good unconditional offensive and defensive debuffs with decent targeting. It looks like Officer Duty is implemented as inflicting Exposure.

Not fancy, but quite solid.

Nah: Oracle's Breath

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• Dragonstone common effect
• If HP is 50% or higher at start of combat (new) or if unit has a Bonus (previously only stat Bonuses):
  • +4 to all stats (new)
  • Follow-up prevention

Refine effect is:

• At start of turn, if there is an ally within 2 spaces:
  • +6 Def/Res to unit and allies within 2 spaces
  • +1 Special charge rate to allies within 2 spaces as a status effect
• With Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats
  • Boosts all stats in combat by an amount equal to the highest Bonus on each stat on allies within 2 spaces (each stat calculated separately)

The effects on herself are a bit underwhelming. Half of her +8 to all stats requires her to stay near her allies, so you can't really take advantage of the fact that Vision of Arcadia has infinite range. Additionally, her Special charge rate boost is only applied if she starts the turn near an ally and completely renders her default Infantry Breath pointless (as if Infantry Breath weren't useless enough already).

While the ability to borrow Bonuses from allies is technically always active on player phase, because its search range is 2 spaces, it functionally only has the Unity condition.

Still mostly useless on player phase due to the lack of a guaranteed follow-up and the lack of any other skill effects that could make up for it. Underwhelming compared to other dragons on enemy phase since she still needs a guaranteed follow-up on a passive skill slot or Sacred Seal and therefore has to give up something for it and can't run off to kill things without dragging at least one ally along with her.

Duo Ephraim: Reginleif

Base effect is updated:

• Effective against armor and cavalry
• Permanent +3 Atk
• All passable terrain counts as 1 movement cost (new)
• If unit's Atk is higher than opponent's Atk at start of combat or if unit has a Bonus:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)
• If unit's Atk is higher than opponent's Atk in combat (unchanged) or if unit has a Bonus (previously if unit has +1 movement):
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Refine effect is:

• If unit has a Bonus:
  • Canto (Rem.+1)
• Even Tempest 3
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • If unit has a Bonus:
    • Follow-up prevention

Ephraim gets +8 to all stats, follow-up prevention, Canto, and Even Tempest. This means he can now run Odd Tempest in the C slot and always have +1 movement, which also means he'll always have all of the effects that require a Bonus because even if he is hit with Gravity or Stall, the +1 movement is still there.

Unfortunately, he didn't get a Special charge rate boost on his weapon, so you lose that effect if you want to give him a better A skill than his default Heavy Blade 4.

Honestly, this was a lot tamer than I expected, as his only defensive effects are the follow-up prevention and +8 Def/Res.

Duo Marth: Tanngrisnir

Base effect is updated:

• Bow common effect
• Permanent +3 Spd
• If HP is 50% or higher at start of combat (new) or if unit has a Bonus (previously only stat Bonus or +1 movement):
  • +4 to all stats in combat (previously +3)
  • +1 Special charge rate (previously only on unit's own attacks)

Refine effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • With Stance condition, if opponent has 2 range, and if unit's Spd is higher than opponent's Spd in combat:
    • Vantage effect
    • (Enemy-phase) Desperation effect

Marth basically gets Spd Preempt and Holy War's End, which more or less fixes the issue of fast ranged tanks not having enough defensive stats to tank. As long as the opponent doesn't have Guard or Tempo, he's also guaranteed to land Fire Emblem on his follow-up attack, which activates more Bonuses if he didn't have them already.

It's unfortunate A/S Far Save doesn't exist yet.

It's also unfortunate that Legendary Lilina still has decent usage and has Hardy Bearing on her weapon.

It's also unfortunate that Embla exists.

Other than those issues, Marth is probably now one of the best Far Save units in the game. His Spd is probably good enough to avoid being hit with Windsweep, though I'm not sure how well he can handle some of the more recent Spd creep, like Legendary Veronica, who easily gains a massive +14 Spd from her weapon.

Kronya: Athame

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Res
• With Blow condition (new) or if opponent's HP is 99% or lower at start of combat:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat
• If opponent's HP is 99% or lower at start of combat:
  • Vantage effect
• Dagger common effect

Refine effect is:

• With Blow-or-Solo condition:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat
• With Blow condition and if unit attacked in combat, after combat:
  • Inflicts 5 damage and Exposure to opponent and enemies within 2 spaces of opponent

Kronya still has no defensive effect to keep her alive when initiating combat, which is a bummer. She's going to have to rely on teammates to help her out when going up against stronger units that can counterattack.

No Special Spiral means that she can't run a second stack of Special Spiral to land Lethality, though at the very least, Special Spiral 4 now exists and makes Glimmer more threatening, especially when combined with the effect of Exposure added on.

They did fix the condition on the +5 Atk/Spd on the base effect, though, so that she can actually activate it on player phase, and the total +10 Atk/Spd is quite nice. They also added a Pain+ effect so that she doesn't need to run Savage Blow to actually function. However, it does look like they held back quite a bit so that she's still forced to run less powerful skills.

It's not bad, but it could have been much better.

 

Overall thoughts:

Marth's refine looks really good as long as you don't go up anything that specifically counters it, but the things that counter him counter him pretty hard.

Ephraim's and Hubert's are pretty good. No complaints there.

Nah's is pretty underwhelming compared to other recent dragons. She's a huge ball of stats, but needs a babysitter to follow her around if she actually wants skill effects to be active.

I'm not sure about Kronya's. She still relies on one-hit kills to function, but got an additional +20 damage compared to before (5 from Atk, 5 from the Pain effect, and 10 from Exposure). I'm just not sure if that's enough to be reliable, even if you add more damage from Close Salvo and Special Spiral 4.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

I am not sure if that is enough for Kronya. She needs more than just Poison Strike and true damage to make Counter-Vantage viable in Aether Raids. Having Special Spiral on the Weapon and another stack on B would have definitely helped with Lethality triggers. And Null C-Disrupt would be nice too on the Weapon.

Like Kronya, Nah feels pretty tame with just Special charge and follow-up denial.

Ephraim: Dynastic Duo is going to be pretty fun with Odd Tempest. He is basically Alm: Imperial Ascent 2.0, but with even better mobility, which is pretty solid.

Hubert also feels a bit tame with guaranteed follow-up, true damage, and Guard.

Marth: Royal Altean Duo is pretty nice with Vantage and enemy phase Desperation, along with Special charge. Null C-Disrupt, Savvy Fighter, and Special Spiral would be my top picks for B skill.

I think the best Refines this time around are the Duo Heroes.

Edited December 5, 2022 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

24 minutes ago, XRay said:

Hubert also feels a bit tame with guaranteed follow-up, true damage, and Guard.

The draw of Hubert is the fact that anyone on the team can benefit from the Exposure application. You can have someone Reposition him to allow him to take advantage of it himself or you have have him Reposition someone else so that they can take advantage of it.

It's a bit more work to set up than Duo Thorr, but Hubert is way easier to get your hands on.

 

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

Null C-Disrupt, Savvy Fighter, and Special Spiral would be my top picks for B skill.

Null C-Disrupt is infantry only.

[XRay]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Null C-Disrupt is infantry only.

Oof. Well, I guess he should still be able to handle Firesweepers with Savvy Fighter by making sure they cannot double him easily.

I just saw the new Focus, so I am not sure he and other Save tanks can deal with Infantry Pulse teams as easily. Hell, even super tanks are going to have some serious issues too.

[Diovani Bressan]

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Marth basically gets Spd Preempt and Holy War's End, which more or less fixes the issue of fast ranged tanks not having enough defensive stats to tank. As long as the opponent doesn't have Guard or Tempo, he's also guaranteed to land Fire Emblem on his follow-up attack, which activates more Bonuses if he didn't have them already.

Players just need to remember that different from Seliph's Holy War End, Marth's Tanngrisnir doesn't grant a guaranteed follow-up before foe's follow-up attack. Which means that if foe has "foe cannot do a follow-up" effect, Marth will not attack twice in the counterattack.

That can be "fixed" by running a Guaranteed Follow-up skill like a Fighter with that effect.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Diovani Bressan

[Ice Dragon]

57 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Players just need to remember that different from Seliph's Holy War End, Marth's Tanngrisnir doesn't grant a guaranteed follow-up before foe's follow-up attack. Which means that if foe has "foe cannot do a follow-up" effect, Marth will not attack twice in the counterattack.

That can be "fixed" by running a Guaranteed Follow-up skill like a Fighter with that effect.

Savvy Fighter is probably the best skill in that slot since it grants both halves of Null Follow-Up, though it's annoyingly still only obtainable from Valentine Lucina.

[Diovani Bressan]

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Savvy Fighter is probably the best skill in that slot since it grants both halves of Null Follow-Up, though it's annoyingly still only obtainable from Valentine Lucina.

Yeah... would be great to have it in another unit. Being on Lucina makes you have to choose between giving Savvy Figher to Marth or Near Save to a different hero...

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Yeah... would be great to have it in another unit. Being on Lucina makes you have to choose between giving Savvy Figher to Marth or Near Save to a different hero...

A/D Near Save is at least available from Dedue in the standard summoning pool. Savvy Fighter's main competition is Lucina wanting merges to boost her Spd and defensive stats, which is even more of an issue now with how stupidly fast Abyssal bats are.

[Xenomata]

New year means another year of overpowered or just good refines. Let's see how this first batch of 2023 fares... also included is a Legendary/Mythic remix.

1. Ragnell-Alondite, from Red Sword Flier and Red Sword Infantry Duo Altina: Dawn's Trueblade (who will also be getting a remix) and Altina w/Sanaki: Cross-Time Duo. (Unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range. Inflicts Spd-5. Unit attacks twice (even if foe initiates combat).)
2. Sable Lance, from Lance Cavalry Sirius: Mysterious Knight (Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit is not adjacent to an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 during combat.)
3. Scythe of Sariel, from grail Lance Cavalry Death Knight: The Reaper (Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If a bonus granted by a skill like Rally or Hone and/or extra movement granted by a skill like Armor March or Armored Boots is active on foe, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit during combat and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.)
4. Snow's Grace, from Green Manakete Sothis: Silver Spectre (Neutralizes "effective against dragons" bonuses. Grants Spd+3. At start of combat, if unit's HP >= 50%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat. If foe's Range = 2, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.)
5. Meisterbogen, part of the remix for Colorless Bow Cavalry Leif: Unifier of Thracia (Effective against flying foes. Inflicts Spd-5. Unit attacks twice (even if foe initiates combat). When under player's control, unit gains: "If unit initiates combat, foe cannot make a follow-up attack.")
6. Cunning Bow, from Colorless Bow Cavalry Claude: The Schemer (Grants Spd+3. Effective against flying foes. When total bonuses on unit + total penalties on foe >= 10, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-5 on foe during combat. (Example: if unit has a +5 bonus and foe has a -5 penalty, the calculated total will be 10.))

OBVIOUSLY Ragnell-Alondite is gonna get Special Cooldown -2 and all stat +8 when above 25% HP, don't even know why you'd expect anything else. THIS IS A SARCASTIC STATEMENT.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Xenomata

[Diovani Bressan]

I am very happy that Claude is finally getting his refinement. I am also kinda surprised to see Winter Sothis here... I thought they would cheat and say that Winter Altina would count as the seasonal refinement for the month.

I think it's safe to guess that in one-two years, Winter Altina will get another weapon and refinement.

[Ice Dragon]

My usual hopes, predictions, and whatnot segment:

Altina: Ragnell-Alondite
Harmonized Altina: Ragnell-Alondite

Current effect is:

• Meister effect, -5 Spd
• Distant Counter

For reference, Ragnell and Alondite previously got the same refine as each other, being the Slaying effect and +4 to all stats when HP is 25% or higher.

Also for reference, Altina is getting Atk/Def Hold from her remix, and Ashera's Chosen+ grants her +9 Atk/Def/Res instead of the previous +6 Atk/Def, boosts her damage by 70% of the difference between her and her opponent's Res stats (maximum 7), and grants Dragon Wall 3.

I would not be surprised if Ragnell-Alondite gets the exact same refine as Ragnell and Alondite given that the Slaying effect is exactly what Altina wants to be able to activate Twin Blades consistently.

However, I think they might add a few more effects because Harmonized Altina is a fairly underwhelming unit and misses out on Altina's significantly buffed Ashera's Chosen+ skill. Ideally, I think Ragnell-Alondite should also at least get the Tempo effect since Altina is unable to inherit Tempo skills, and Harmonized Altina is unable to run Tempo with her default Null C-Disrupt in that slot. Null C-Disrupt would also be nice to have even if Harmonized Altina already has it since it opens up her B slot and is another skill that Altina cannot inherit.

Sirius: Sable Lance

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• With a Solo condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat

The base condition is likely to be updated to be a Blow-or-Solo condition, like other recent refines.

Sirius currently faces stiff competition from other lance cavalry like Brave Eliwood, Brave Eirika, Brave Chrom, and Hardin, and would really like to have something to set himself apart from them, or at the very least not lose in a straight-up stat comparison.

I really don't know what they'll want to do with him, considering they'll also have to do something for the almost identical Perceval really soon.

Death Knight: Scythe of Sariel

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• If the opponent has a stat bonus or +1 movement:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Follow-up prevention

I'm pretty sure the base condition will be updated to apply to all Bonuses and not just the outdated version of the condition.

Death Knight has the common issue of being a slow melee cavalry unit with no source of guaranteed follow-up (or a viable substitute) on his weapon, which defeats the purpose of him being cavalry in the first place. In order for him to be viable at all, he needs a guaranteed follow-up on player phase.

In Three Houses, Death Knight has a bunch of skills that can be referenced for refine effects. His personal ability, Murderous Intent could be implemented as a partial or full nullification of percentage damage reduction. He also has Distant Counter and Poison Strike.

My ideal refine would be a guaranteed follow-up on player phase, at least 50% nullification of percentage damage reduction, and Serpentine Staff's effect.

Winter Sothis: Snow's Grace

Current effect is:

• Nullifies effective damage against dragons
• If HP is 50% or higher at start of combat:
  • +5 to all stats in combat
• Dragonstone common effect

Winter Sothis really, really wants to be a fast Far Save tank, but lacks a lot of the necessary tools to be one. I don't know if they'll be willing to give her all of those tools.

Winter Sothis wants to be able to get rid of Special Fighter in order to run Savvy Fighter instead, but this prevents her from reliably activating Sirius since she would rather have it activate on the first counterattack instead of the second. Being a green armor, she's also deathly weak to Duo Chrom, who can just nullify any damage reduction (since she's running Sirius + Savvy Fighter instead of a defensive Special + Hardy Fighter) on top of having effective damage and weapon triangle advantage against her.

In a perfect world and within reason, an ideal refine for Snow's Grace would have damage reduction (like Gerbera Axe), Null C-Disrupt (like Nifl's Bite), some form of Special acceleration (Slaying effect or +1 Special charge rate), and Svalinn Shield. If possible, also Tempo to make up for not having Sirius+ and a start-of-combat anti-battery to tell Duo Chrom to fuck off.

This is basically their chance to fix all of the issues with Ascended Fjorm (and also Winter Black Knight's glaring weakness to Duo Chrom), but I have zero confidence that they'll actually pull it off.

Legendary Leaf: Meisterbogen

Current effect is:

• Bow common effect
• Meister effect, -5 Spd
• If unit is under player control and with a Blow condition:
  • Follow-up prevention

For reference, Leaf is getting Joint Drive Atk from his remix, and Noba's Zeal II adds only Quickened Pulse to its effect.

Joint Drive Atk is an extremely odd choice for a cavalry unit, and it's probably the developers trying to make us use him on enemy phase. Because of this, I'm expecting his refine to include a Vantage effect, probably with a condition of being within 2 spaces of an ally. If they want us to use him on enemy phase, it's also possible that they extend his follow-up prevention to both phases.

It's worth noting that Far Trace is pretty much useless on Leaf due to Noba's Zeal inflicting Gravity on him, so there's a chance his weapon will have Canto (1) like his Harmonized version. If they want to get fancy and really hammer in the "please use Joint Drive Atk", they could instead give him Canto (Ally 2).

Claude: Cunning Bow

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• Bow common effect
• If sum of unit's stat bonuses and opponent's stat penalties is 10 or higher:
  • -5 to all opponent's stats in combat

It doesn't look like Claude has much to draw references from, as his personal skill Leicester Lineage only grants an experience boost, though they could pull the effect of the upgraded version of it (even though this Claude wouldn't have that yet) and give him Pass. It would be pretty cool if they gave him Pass + Canto (Recall) for mobility shenanigans.

It would be a bit disappointing if this version of Claude ends up worse than Summer Claude, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just gave him a conditional Brave effect like Frozen Delight. This Claude also doesn't get Fallen Star, so he'd need some other form of defensive effect to make him actually worth using (unlike Python, who ended up as a glass cannon).

[Ice Dragon]

Refines are out:

Altina: Ragnell-Alondite
Harmonized Altina: Ragnell-Alondite

Base effect is unchanged:

• Meister effect, -5 Spd
• Distant Counter

Refine effect is:

• With Stance condition or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat:
  • +5 Atk/Res in combat
  • +1 Special charge rate
  • Nullifies opponent's bonuses to Atk/Def

For reference, Ashera's Chosen+ is:

• Iote's Shield
• If there is no non-dragon, non-beast unit within 1 space of unit (unchanged) or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat (new):
  • +9 Atk/Def/Res (previously +6 Atk/Def)
  • If Res is greater than opponent's Res (new):
    • Additional damage in combat equal to 70% of difference in Res, maximum 7 (new)
    • Dragon Wall 3 (new)

Rather tame, but this is a Distant Counter Meister weapon, after all.

The Special charge rate boost allows her to activate Twin Blades more consistently, though it can be countered by both Tempo and Guard, which is unfortunate. It would have been better to give her the Slaying effect and the offensive half of Tempo.

Most of what Altina got ended up being with her A skill, which is not surprising.

This leaves Duo Altina in a pretty underwhelming position since she was already a relatively weak unit, though at the very least she has access to infantry inheritable skills, which somewhat makes up for it. I honestly don't expect her to get a second refine, given that refined Ragnell-Alondite is already on par with both Distant Counter weapons and Meister weapons without taking penalties for being both at the same time. She's also capable of using the newly released Time's Pulse 4 to get around opponents running Tempo or Guard, unlike regular Altina.

Sirius: Sable Lance

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• With a Blow-or-Solo condition (previously only Solo condition):
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Null Follow-Up 3 (new)

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • +2 to all stats in combat for each space the attacking unit moved, maximum +6
  • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack

Gets both halves of Null Follow-Up, damage reduction on the opponent's first attack, and Cynthia's variant of Clash for all stats, though only to a maximum of 6 instead of 8.

Sirius is basically just a giant pile of stats, getting +8 to all stats with trivial conditions and a maximum of +14 to all stats, though his Res is still underwhelming even with the boost. Both halves of Null Follow-Up and damage reduction on the opponent's first attack allows him to be run on both phases, and opens up his B slot to run something other than Flow without the opportunity cost.

Good, but nothing groundbreaking.

Death Knight: Scythe of Sariel

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• If the opponent has a Bonus (previously only stat bonuses or +1 Movement) or opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat (new):
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Follow-up prevention

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Slaying effect, Omnibreaker, and +8 to all stats. The guaranteed follow-up was all he really needed, and he got it.

Winter Sothis: Snow's Grace

Base effect is updated:

• Nullifies effective damage against dragons
• Permanent +3 Spd
• Dragonstone common effect
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat (previously 50%):
  • +5 to all stats in combat
  • Nullifies penalties to all stats (new)

Refine effect is:

• With a Stance condition or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher:
  • +4 to all stats
  • The defensive half of Null Follow-Up
  • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack

I'm not sure how I feel about this refine. I'll add my response to it in a separate post.

Legendary Leaf: Meisterbogen

Base effect is unchanged:

• Bow common effect
• Meister effect, -5 Spd
• If unit is under player control and with a Blow condition:
  • Follow-up prevention

Refine effect is:

• With a Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats
  • Additional damage equal to 10% of opponent's Atk (includes AoE Specials)
  • The offensive half of Tempo

For reference, Noba's Zeal II is:

• 3 cooldown
• Quickened Pulse (new)
• Galeforce
• After activation:
  • Inflicts Gravity on unit and Pair Up partner

Leaf indeed gets a Unity condition on his refine effect to pair with getting Joint Drive Atk from his remix. It looks like they really want him to be a dual-phase unit, especially since adding Quickened Pulse to Noba's Zeal frees up his B skill for Vantage.

Tempo guarantees that he'll activate Noba's Zeal as long as the opponent doesn't die in one hit.

The extra damage is pretty nice, as it comes out to around 7-8 damage against most opponents.

Claude: Cunning Bow

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• Bow common effect
• If unit has a Bonus or opponent has a Penalty (previously required sum of unit's bonuses and opponent's penalties to be 10 or higher):
  • -5 to all opponent's stats in combat
• With a Blow condition (new):
  • Reduces damage of opponent's first attack by [sum of unit's bonuses and opponent's penalties] × 3%, maximum 60% (new)
  • If sum of unit's bonuses and opponent's penalties is 10 or higher:
    • The offensive half of Null Follow-Up (new)

Refine effect is:

• If there is at least 1 enemy within 3 rows or 3 columns centered on unit at start of turn:
  • -7 Def to all enemies within 3 rows or 3 columns centered on unit as a Penalty
  • +6 Atk to self as a Bonus
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat
  • Bonus Doubler on Atk
  • Penalty Doubler on opponent's Def

Claude finds himself with Fallen-Star-at-home.

As long as the opponent doesn't nullify his bonuses or their own penalties, he can fully activate all of his weapon's effects except for Fallen-Star-at-home, which requires an additional 7 points of bonuses or penalties to reach its maximum value.

More specifically, with just the effects from his weapon, he gets +36/13/5/5, the offensive half of Null Follow-Up, and 39% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack. Due to his combination of stat bonuses and penalties, if he runs a Menace skill, the one he wants ends up being Arthur's Spd/Res Menace to maximize the number of stats he gets as bonuses and inflicts as penalties.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[Xenomata]

Claude gets a huge weapon textbox, everyone else gets... average boxes.

Oh yeah, definitely no 3H bias here. Just look at Death Knight, he gets the smallest box! Thoughts in the spoiler:

Spoiler

Leif should enjoy having access to the Tempo effect. Means he can't be walled simply with Guard anymore. A little extra damage, and when taking his remix into account he should be pretty alright all things considered.
His having Joint Drive Atk, on the other hand... doesn't make much sense still.

Altina's remix didn't touch Twin Blades, but then I guess it didn't need to. A bit of a shame that Ragnell-Alondite has to share between two units, meaning it'll just be an overall good refine instead of broken as past remix refines have been (not naming any Yunes), though what it did give the Twin Altinas is still appreciated.

Sothis probably could have received a little better, but it still works for her. Still better than that disappointing refine her regular form got...

Sirius gets anywhere from +8 to +14 all stat depending on how far the combat initiator moves. Paired with a proper Clash skill, this can get annoying real fast. He also gets full NFU and damage reduction. Simple, not all that broken, but if you like Camus then I guess it's a pretty good refine.

Seriously screw 3H, I'm starting to get sick of the huge bias it seems to get even the month of Engage's release. All these other refines range from good to alright, but this is... seriously stupid.
Anyway Claude just kills you if you dare to have a penalty or let him have a bonus, both of which are always true. If Claude combat only with the base +6 Atk on himself and the base -7 on the enemy, he gets 39% damage reduction.

Death Knight gets an extra +4 all stat, a guaranteed follow-up, and slightly less strict conditions on his base effect. That is it.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Xenomata

[Diovani Bressan]

If you run Winter Sothis with Hardy Fighter, then the green text of the refinement is kinda worst than Mythic Sothis, since Null Guaranteed Follow-up effects is present on Hardy, and Winter Sothis gets 30% damage reduction compared to Mythic 's 40%. But the Null Penalties is quite nice, tbh. Different from Mythic that has DC, Winter has +5 to all stats, which becomes +9 with refinement.

In my opinion, Winter Sothis's refinement is better than Mythic Sothis's, but the Mythic one has the Tempo effect on Sirius+, which I honestly appreciate.

I wonder how this Sothis deals with Legendary Shez...

[Humanoid]

Hmm, I didn't really think about Leif's refine (and remix) when I thought I'd be grabbing Scion Leif from AHR. Come to think about it, Scion Leif may be redundant for my own use now: if I compare a neutral, unmerged Scion Leif against my refined +4 +Atk Legendary Leif, I feel I would probably just default to the Legendary every time. Especially if I put Far Trace to replace S Drink now that he has QP built in. If I do skip Scion Leif, I'll have to decide between Roy and Corrin.

Besides, I now have another viable horse archer in the form of Claude, who I recently pulled a +Atk copy of and whose refine people seem to be going ga-ga for. I'm also still interesting in getting Ascended Laegjarn.

I'll probably hold on Altina (both versions) as I find enemy phase units too hard to use now (in that I can't even guess how well an engagement will go given skill bloat).

Don't have Sothis, Sirius, and think DK is pants-on-head stupid.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Humanoid

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Humanoid said:

Especially if I put Far Trace to replace S Drink now that he has QP built in.

I don't recommend Far Trace on Legendary Leaf.

Galeforce activating will prevent Canto from activating at the same time, meaning Canto will end up activating on the second round of combat. However, the self-inflicted Gravity will cause Canto (Rem.) to be mostly worthless because it will count his movement range as 1 instead of the usual 3.

[Humanoid]

27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't recommend Far Trace on Legendary Leaf.

Galeforce activating will prevent Canto from activating at the same time, meaning Canto will end up activating on the second round of combat. However, the self-inflicted Gravity will cause Canto (Rem.) to be mostly worthless because it will count his movement range as 1 instead of the usual 3.

Ah, okay, didn't really think about the interaction between Canto and Gravity. What would he like instead then? Just Lull Atk/Def comboed with either DB4 or Atk/Def Catch perhaps (depending if I can get either a spare OG Dimitri or Zeke first)?

EDIT: Oh wait, Zeke has a Menace skill that's more valuable. I just checked for Dimitri though and probably wouldn't miss him if I sacked my only copy who's +HP -Spd anyway. And would you agree that grabbing Scion Leif would be largely redundant?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Humanoid

[Othin]

24 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Ah, okay, didn't really think about the interaction between Canto and Gravity. What would he like instead then? Just Lull Atk/Def comboed with either DB4 or Atk/Def Catch perhaps (depending if I can get either a spare OG Dimitri or Zeke first)?

EDIT: Oh wait, Zeke has a Menace skill that's more valuable. I just checked for Dimitri though and probably wouldn't miss him if I sacked my only copy who's +HP -Spd anyway. And would you agree that grabbing Scion Leif would be largely redundant?

I like Escape Route, so he can use his Galeforce action to teleport to another unit. Seal Def 4 adds a lot of damage, but it's rare.

[Humanoid]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

I like Escape Route, so he can use his Galeforce action to teleport to another unit. Seal Def 4 adds a lot of damage, but it's rare.

Definitely valid and effectively free, so it'll be in his kit. Most commonly I use him as the lone unit in Mjolnir's Strike though where it isn't applicable, sadly.

[Ice Dragon]

As a Near Save tank, Winter Sothis is very solid.

Valentine Lucina has 43/62/56/44/38 with a Spd Asset, max Dragonflowers, and only her weapon equipped. Additionally, she gets 40% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack and bonus nullification.

Winter Sothis has 51/64/60/43/46 with a Spd Asset, max Dragonflowers, and only her weapon equipped. Additionally, she gets 30% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack, penalty nullification, and the defensive half of Null Follow-Up.

Sothis can run the exact same build as Lucina and probably do slightly better with it. Sothis has slightly less damage reduction, but higher overall stats. However, Sothis has fewer alternative options for A skills, as she's unable to use Unity's additional effect.

However, they're clearly trying to get players to keep Special Fighter on her by not giving her a different means of activating Sirius on her first counterattack as well as giving her the defensive half of Null Follow-Up, which overlaps with part of Savvy Fighter's effect. Unless you're up against an opponent that can inflict Deep Wounds, though, I think Savvy Fighter is probably still the better option.

 

As a Far Save tank, I'm not entirely convinced of her performance on paper.

On the one hand, she nullifies Legendary Shez's gimmick and also has weapon triangle advantage against her. On the other hand, she's countered by Duo Chrom and ends up needing to give up her A skill to run Svalinn Shield against him, which leaves her vulnerable to Legendary Veronica. It also doesn't help that ranged units have an easier time using Triangle Attack and Dual Strike, which renders damage reduction on the opponent's first attack less valuable, and Sothis isn't able to run Deflect skills at the same time as Distant Counter (D).

For comparison, Valentine Female Robin has 44/62/18/46/52 with a Res Asset, max Dragonflowers, and only her weapon equipped. Additionally, she gets 30% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack and 5 HP regeneration per attack.

Sothis's stats are actually not significantly worse than Robin's defensively. It's just that Sothis is forced to give up more stat-boosting skills than Robin does, while at the same time, Sothis can't really afford to pass up on Spd to run other skills.

For a more analogous comparison, Ascended Idunn has 47/66/33/53/49 with Def and Res Assets, max Dragonflowers, and only her weapon equipped. Additionally, she gets nullifies her penalties and has follow-up prevention. Idunn shuts down Duo Chrom entirely and also doesn't need to run Svalinn Shield at all, which opens up her A slot for better skills, like Distant Def 4. She can also run Distant Stance or Distant Reversal with a Deflect skill if necessary.

I'll have to actually see how Sothis performs in practice (or in simulations) before making any judgments. If she can reliably survive until her counterattack and land a Special Fighter-boosted Sirius to heal back most of her HP, then I think she can manage, but I'm not convinced she can actually do that.

 

3 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Ah, okay, didn't really think about the interaction between Canto and Gravity. What would he like instead then? Just Lull Atk/Def comboed with either DB4 or Atk/Def Catch perhaps (depending if I can get either a spare OG Dimitri or Zeke first)?

The refine is clearly trying to get players to run Vantage, though I think Lull */Def is probably fine. Personally, I'd go with Lull Spd/Def instead of Lull Atk/Def due to the fact that his weapon's additional damage is based on the opponent's Atk, but the difference is pretty negligible. At most, Lull Atk/Def will cost you 1 point of additional damage (unless the opponent has Bonus Doubler or something similar).

That said, as long as the opponent can't nullify their penalties, the best B skill is Seal Def 4. (If the opponent can nullify their penalties, then it's still Lull.)

In the A slot, he can run anything that boosts Atk. Any Atk Catch is probably going to be the optimal option (outside of Vantage builds), though Death Blow 4 is fine if that's what you have available.

If you're running Vantage in the B slot, he probably wants to run a Push skill instead so that he can safely rack up damage, though unless they release Vantage 4 with a more lenient HP threshold, he needs 3 rounds of combat to take enough damage if he is +1 merge or higher.