General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Diovani Bressan]

I was expecting Bramimond instead of Naga, but oh well.

One thing that bothers me is Byleth taking two slots in the New Power Banners which means we have one less refinement than normal this month (2 Legendaries, 1 grail, 1 Seasonal and 2 normal heroes, instead of 2/1/1/3)

For next month, I expect Edelgard, Bantu, Silque and NY Alfonse, with Conrad as the grail unit.

[GuiltyLove]

Astram...... why...........

 

[Othin]

Looks like Mila gets base stat boosts, that's useful.

[Diovani Bressan]

Mila's big drive going from +2 to +4 is very welcomed, and the extra visible Def+4 will help with Mila's Turnwheel. The Dull Atk effect is nice, I guess.

Byleth got what I expect: stats+8, some Damage Reduction, and Null damage reduction when special triggers.

I didnt expect them to increase Forsyth's healing. The Deep Wounds reduction was expected though.

Astram is just a ball of stats. At least he grants bonuses to all allies now.

Selkie is a ball stats, but with Null Follow-up.

Celica's Refinement is alright, but combined with her remix it is actually quite good.

Decent batch overall. But I think I will only refine Mila, since she is the only one I use with more frequency.

[Xenomata]

@GuiltyLove If it might make it easier on you, if you check the FEH subreddit you can usually find a post from PhoenixMaster1 that has clear images of all the refines in one image (as well as keeping the text boxes whole instead of chopped off.) I only bring this up because the smaller images I assume you took yourself are a bit hard to read in my opinion. Anyway...

• Celica's refine by itself seems kind of plain overall, but does improve when her Prf is also taken into consideration. Overall good, could become deadly if given Time's Pulse 3 to charge a 4-charge special like Astra.
• Oh would you look at that, when you give a supportive unit supportive effects in their refine, it starts to look like a pretty good refine! Who would have thought!
  Mila has the potential to be a pretty big stat ball if allowed. It'd require max merges and dragonflowers, but it's doable. Make it hard for the enemy to bypass her Def check.
• Astram's all stats. That's it. He can grant bonuses to all allies now. Compared to the easier to get Fae, he grants a whole one extra point to each stat, but only if he's above 25% HP. He can get +14 all stat total if none of his bonuses are nullified.
  ...boring. I'll keep using Fae if no one's keeping track.
• Byleths got an... okay refine. Nothing amazing, but it does the job.
• Forsyth just became a lot harder to kill. Without the ability to ignore damage reduction effects, he's more or less guaranteed to heal 28/14 HP if he has a follow-up attack.
• Selkie has a little less statballing potential than her regular form, but I think she still manages to have more bulk and power thanks to the Res-comparing effects on her base weapon. All she loses from her original form is a Guard effect, which... big whoop.

Well... that was overall not that exciting. Astram is a big letdown, Mila's support game is better, and Celica I guess is able to charge Miracle in one round of combat, if you actually cared about keeping Miracle.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Xenomata

[GuiltyLove]

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

@GuiltyLove If it might make it easier on you, if you check the FEH subreddit you can usually find a post from PhoenixMaster1 that has clear images of all the refines in one image (as well as keeping the text boxes whole instead of chopped off.) I only bring this up because the smaller images I assume you took yourself are a bit hard to read in my opinion. Anyway...

i got it off gfaqs so you can blame them

 

also, i dont play in english

I'll do that next time. I didn't see the post on the subreddit. I'm still so disappointed in Astram's refine! You're right about just using Fae instead.

[Ice Dragon]

Male Byleth: Creator Sword
Female Byleth: Creator Sword

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• Null Follow-Up 3
• Tempo
• With a Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack
  • Nullifies non-Special percentage damage reduction when Special activates

And +8 to all stats it indeed is. And they indeed just stole some effects from the other Byleths, with percentage damage reduction coming from Brave Byleth and Desert Byleth and percentage damage reduction nullification on Special activation coming from Legendary Male Byleth.

The weapon was already pretty good and really only missed out on some stats, so this result is quite nice. Not much else to really say.

Astram: Mercurius

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• At start of turn, if HP is 25% or higher (previously 50%):
  • Grants +6 to all stats as a Bonus to self and allies within 2 spaces (previously +4 and only allied physical units)
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)

Refine effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Additional boost to all stats in combat equal to the highest Bonus on that stat on an ally within 3 spaces

Mercurius now grants +8 to all stats minimum with an additional potential +6 to all stats based on allies' stat Bonuses (Sieglinde's refine effect with more range). The effect of granting +4 to all stats in Bonuses to himself and nearby allied physical units has been improved to +6 to all stats and now affects all nearby allies regardless of weapon type.

And that's it.

No additional combat skill effects is kind of a bummer, but the stats bring Astram up to the same level as modern sword infantry with pretty gigantic physical bulk that isn't dependent on stat comparisons.

Astram ends up with 51/72/57/54/39 with an additional +6 to all stats as Bonuses with the maximum effect from his weapon. His weapon granting full Bonuses means that he can run Time's Pulse or Smoke skills and still get the best of both worlds.

His competition in the Grail pool is Lumera, who has 44/65/56/39/31, Guard, Dodge 3, and additional damage equal to 15% of her Spd stat, which comes out to about 10-12 additional damage. Honestly, Astram's only real disadvantage in this comparison is his lack of Guard and his worse magic bulk. I'd still stick to using Lumera for these reasons (and because she scores a bit higher in the Arena if you need the extra points), but Astram is quite usable.

Forsyth: Sol Lance

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Res
• Recovers 14 HP on each of unit's own attacks in combat (previously 10 HP)
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • -5 Atk/Def to opponent in combat (new)
  • Nullifies 50% of Deep Wounds (new)

Refine effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • -5 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
  • Follow-up prevention
  • If HP is 50% or higher at start of combat:
    • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack

As expected, he got Brave Claude's partial nullification of Deep Wounds, though only 50% instead of 60%.

The HP recovery has been boosted from 10 HP to 14 HP, which is double the amount that this effect typically grants (7 HP). Forsyth also gets an effective +10 Atk/Def/Res, follow-up prevention, and 30% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack.

Again, not much to say. It's a pretty solid weapon.

Legendary Celica: Saintly Seraphim

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• With a Blow-or-Unity condition (previously only a Blow condition):
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat (new)
  • Deals additional damage equal to 25% of opponent's Res, including on AoE Specials

Refine effect is:

• At start of turn, if there is an ally within 2 spaces:
  • Grants self +1 Special charge rate as a status effect
  • Time's Pulse 3
• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat

For reference, Soul of Zofia II grants an additional +5 Spd, partial percentage damage reduction nullification, and improves its Desperation effect to have no HP condition. Celica's new skill is Atk/Spd Menace, replacing Atk/Spd Oath 3.

A full list of Legendary Alm's skill effects from his weapon, Special, default B skill, and default C skill is as follows:

• +10 Atk, +13 Spd
• Additional damage equal to 25% of opponent's Def
• The offensive half of Tempo
• Windsweep 1 without drawback
• Nullifies non-Special percentage damage reduction on Special activation
• Null Follow-Up 3 (from default B skill)
• Time's Pulse 3 (from default C skill)

For comparison, a full list of Legendary Celica's skill effects from the same skill slots, put in the corresponding order, is as follows:

• +10 Atk, +18 Spd
• Additional damage equal to 25% of opponent's Res
• +1 Special charge rate
• The Desperation effect without an HP condition
• Nullifies 50% of non-Special percentage damage reduction on all attacks
• Null Follow-Up 3
• Time's Pulse 3
• Atk/Spd Menace (from default C skill)

So yeah, they did, in fact, make Celica a carbon copy of Alm, but with an open C slot.

Against opponents without Guard or Tempo, Celica is capable of activating a 3-cooldown Special on her follow-up attack, allowing her to run Luna for damage output. If you keep her default Miracle for whatever reason, she will have it fully charged at the end of a single round of combat, which is presumably why her Special charging effect was implemented in this way instead of being identical to Alm's.

Alternatively, she can give up her new Atk/Spd Menace to run a second stack of Time's Pulse, which allows her to activate Astra on her follow-up attack, which is not something you see every day and sounds absolutely terrifying.

Unfortunately, she can't activate Aether in a single round of combat, and she'll overcharge Ruptured Sky, though by extension, it means she'll still activate Ruptured Sky even if the opponent has one of Guard or Tempo (but not both).

Very good. Definitely worth using.

Mila: Nurturing Breath

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Def
• Dragonstone common effect
• +2 to all stats in combat for each ally within a 7×7 square centered on unit, maximum +6 (new)
• Grants the following to allies within a 7×7 square centered on unit:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (previously +2)

Refine effect is:

• Permanent +4 to all stats
• If there is an ally within a 7×7 square centered on unit:
  • Nullifies opponent's Atk Bonuses in combat
• Grants the following to allies within a 7×7 square centered on unit:
  • Nullifies opponent's Atk Bonuses in combat

For reference, Mila's Turnwheel II also inflicts Guard at the same time as Isolation with the same range and condition and now grants Mila follow-up prevention as a status effect. Mila's new skill is Dragon Wall, replacing Sabotage Atk.

I'm surprised they decided to go with more support effects instead of combat effects on the weapon refine, as Dragon Wall would suggest being more combat-oriented. Sure, she has some effects that benefit herself, but they're all stat-related effects. On the other hand, you can definitely use her as a stall unit now for tanking a random ranged dancer after killing all of its friends to give you time to go around destroying buildings.

In total, Mila gets a maximum +10 to all stats on top of the +3 Def she already had and nullifies the opponent's Atk Bonuses, with +4 of those stats being permanent stats that help her activate Mila's Turnwheel's Isolation/Guard effects. Her support effects are boosted from the original +2 to all stats to +4 to all stats and nullifies the opponent's Atk Bonuses, which is pretty nice.

In the end, I do like the fact that they kept Mila more support-oriented with the combat effects largely focused on boosting her bulk since that's already how I use her.

New Year Selkie: New Foxkit Fang

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• If unit's Res is higher than opponent's Res:
  • Deals additional damage equal to 70% of the difference, maximum +7
  • Reduces damage taken in combat an from AoE Specials by the difference × 4%, maximum 40%, excluding Rokkr Specials
• With a Stance condition or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)
• Standard beast transformation condition with standard beast cavalry transformation effect

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Null Follow-Up 3
  • If unit is transformed:
    • -4 to all stats on opponent in combat

So... she gets +12 to all stats and Null Follow-Up and that's it. My apprehension opening up her refine menu was already thick enough to cut with a knife, and this isn't making it any better. But let's see where her stats end up.

With max Dragonflowers and a Spd Asset, this gives her 42/63/58/32/56 plus up to +7 additional damage and 40% damage reduction, the Slaying effect, and Null Follow-Up. When initiating combat, she gets +4/0/4/4 and follow-up prevention, but with the stats not contributing to her Res comparison.

58 Spd is quite good, but not good enough to pass up on a Spd-boosting A skill. For comparison, Alear has 56 Spd with max Dragonflowers, a Spd Asset, and only her weapon equipped, though she also lowers the opponent's Spd by 4 points for every ally from a distinct source title within 3 spaces. New Year Lethe has 62 Spd under the same conditions.

56 Res (52 points counting towards Iceberg) is really good and should be enough to get her full additional damage and damage reduction against everything except for a few of the dragons, mages, and pegasus knights that have extremely high Res without the need for additional investment from passive skills. Even if she can't get the full damage reduction, it still does its job taking hits from Res-targeting opponents.

70 Atk with the full additional damage is decent. If you're using her on player phase, it goes up to a more respectable 74 Atk.

42/32 physical bulk, boosted to 42/36 on player phase, is passable for a player-phase unit and can probably work for a dual-phase unit with a player-phase lean, but is definitely not going to cut it for a dedicated enemy-phase unit. The current premier Spd tank, Flame Lyn, has 40/40 physical bulk, but has an A skill that grants a maximum +12 Def just for having 2 allies within 4 spaces of her.

Selkie is actually quite solid when built as a standard player-phase unit, and having access to the Slaying effect, unlike the faster New Year Lethe, means she can viably run a pretty devastating Iceberg offensively. I'd definitely recommend discarding her original build in its entirety and just build her like a normal player-phase melee cavalry unit. She might even be able to give up running an Atk-boosting A skill to run Spd/Res instead if you really, really want to contest Res with the units with really high Res, but I don't think I'd recommend doing so.

Null Follow-Up is a really good effect to get on her weapon because she can't run Flow skills due to her weapon type, and this opens up her B slot to run S/D Near Trace instead of being stuck needing the harder-to-get Beast Agility.

 

Overall thoughts

Honestly, they're all pretty good this time around, even Astram's and Selkie's. Everyone else's is pretty par for the course with no shenaniganry this time around.

Astram isn't going to compete with modern premium units, but if you're using him, it's going to be for his availability and his access to merges. He can certainly hold his own against other Grail and 4-star options.

Selkie's originally designed role was not worth building towards and is still not worth building towards, but she looks like she'll be pretty solid as a more typical player-phase unit. New Year Lethe is probably still the better option due to having 4 more Spd and otherwise similar effects, but Selkie has the advantage of being colorless and having a really powerful Iceberg that she can actually reliably activate.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ice Dragon
I can't punctuation this late at night.

[Humanoid]

50 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In the end, I do like the fact that they kept Mila more support-oriented with the combat effects largely focused on boosting her bulk since that's already how I use her.

Hmm, my Mila has been left as +Res for years, partly because of the lack of combat and because of her Sabotage skills. Now that she's more competent in combat and has Dragon Wall instead, should I merge her into this +Atk copy I've had for almost as long?

[Ice Dragon]

55 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Hmm, my Mila has been left as +Res for years, partly because of the lack of combat and because of her Sabotage skills. Now that she's more competent in combat and has Dragon Wall instead, should I merge her into this +Atk copy I've had for almost as long?

Personally, I'd probably still lean towards a Res Asset over an Atk Asset. A Def Asset is still ideal to land the Isolation/Guard debuffs, but if you don't have one, you don't have one.

Her remix gives her follow-up prevention without giving her a guaranteed follow-up of her own, which makes her more geared towards tanking rather than dealing damage. It's also cheaper to go this route since all she really needs for this build is the relatively easy to get Fortress Def/Res, and she can call it a day.

However, she did get a pretty substantial +10 Atk from her refine, so it's still viable to run a more offensive set with an Atk Asset if you prefer to use her that way. You'll probably want to swap out her skills, though, since Dragon Wall doesn't help her offensively at all, but all of the optimal options are pretty hard to get. Dragon's Wrath is ideal for a hybrid build since she still gets both additional damage and damage reduction, whereas Dragon's Ire 4 is ideal for a more offensive build, as the tier-4 version grants a guaranteed follow-up on both phases. For an A skill, you'll probably want to run either Solid Ground or Fury.

[Humanoid]

@Ice DragonThanks, will just stick with what I have now then since the last thing I want to do is spend additional resources for what's ultimately a niche unit for me.

[FlyingKitsune]

Astram absolutely isn't going to age well, but the opportunity to stack him with Kaden and L!M!Robin to get essentially +43 to Attack and Speed and +41 to Def and Res (in practice) with nothing but their weapons and Bonus Doubler is faaaaarrr too tempting.

[Ice Dragon]

So when I did my analysis this morning and said that Astram now has gigantic physical bulk, I didn't realize just how gigantic that bulk actually was.

For reference (so I don't have to keep scrolling up), Astram's stat spread at +0 merge with maximum Dragonflowers and a Spd Asset (and no Flaw) is 51/72/57/54/39 with just his weapon equipped and with its maximum effect.

For comparison, a +0 merge Fallen Edelgard with maximum Dragonflowers has 48/53 physical bulk with 40% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack with just her weapon equipped.

Also for comparison, the shiny new Harmonized Karla at +0 merge with maximum Dragonflowers and a Spd Asset has 58 Spd with just her weapon equipped.

 

Astram has Harmonized Karla's Spd with Fallen Edelgard's physical bulk.

I think something like this would be pretty fun and scarily viable as a melee tank:

Astram [+Spd]
Mercurius [unique]
[Assist]
Vital Astra
Atk/Spd Finish 4
Special Spiral 4
Spd Smoke 4
[Some Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd]

You get both the advantages of a Spd tank and a Def tank in the same unit, which is pretty silly.

 

Funny thing is I picked up an Astram with the first Otherworld Bond that already has Vital Astra and max Dragonflowers (and yet somehow they didn't bother to use Trait Fruits on him to give him an Asset and gave him an Ascended Asset instead, which doesn't carry over to the Forma).

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[Ice Dragon]

Next refines are announced:

• Banutu gets Wizened Breath
• Conrad gets Masked Lance
• Silque gets Staff of Lilies
• Duo Alfonse
• Edelgard

 

And the usual translation notes:

 

Wizened Breath is "老巧のブレス" (rōkō no buresu), "Veteran's Breath".

Masked Lance is "仮面の騎士の槍" (kamen no kishi no yari), "Lance of the Masked Knight". "仮面の騎士" (kamen no kishi), "Masked Knight", is Conrad's epithet.

Staff of Lilies is "白百合の杖" (shirayuri no tsue), "White Lily Staff".

[Xenomata]

Ugh, not looking forward to Edelgard getting something that puts her on equal grounds with her armored alts...
I'm most interested in seeing Duo Alfonse, mainly in if they give him effects that clash with Special Spiral 4's ignorance of non-special damage reduction.

Just as reminders:

• Bantu had Dark Breath, nflicting Atk/Spd -5 on foes within 2 spaces of target after combat, with the refine upgrading this to Atk/Spd -7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target after combat.
• Conrad had the Barrier Lance (Res +7 if foe initiates combat)
• Duo Alfonse's Imbued Koma granted All Stat +5 and denied enemy follow-ups if his special was ready when combat began, along with the Slaying effect.
• Edelgard's Victorious Axe guaranteed a follow-up attack if the number of foes within 2 spaces was higher than the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding Edelgard and her target), along with the Slaying effect
• Silque had the Melancholy staff, resetting the special charge of her target and foes within 2 spaces of target as well as inflicting [Guard] on said enemies. The only thing we can confirm for sure about her refine is that it will most definitely have the Wrathful Staff effect built in, since she comes with Dazzling Staff by default.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Xenomata

[Ice Dragon]

And my usual hopes and analysis:

 

Banutu: Wizened Breath

Currently has Dark Breath, which has a player-phase-only -5 Atk/Spd Smoke effect and can be refined to have a -7 Atk/Spd Seal/Smoke effect that activates as long as the unit attacks in combat.

Banutu is a 4-star unit, so I'm not expecting anything particularly amazing. As a unit, Banutu is basically just a red Nowi with a bit more Def and a bit less Res. His base kit makes little sense, having the enemy-phase Fierce Breath, but the player-phase Savage Blow, so I think the refine will probably ignore his default skills.

His Res is not high enough to reliably use Dragon Wall, so he lacks the ability to run damage reduction outside of tier-4 skills or Dragon's Wrath. If they want to make him a bulkier unit, he'll want to have damage reduction on his weapon and probably also follow-up prevention. While he also wants a guaranteed follow-up for damage output, his inability to reliably use Dragon Wall leaves his B slot open for Quick Riposte or Dragon's Ire, so I don't think it's too important for him to have a guaranteed follow-up on his weapon.

Since his base weapon is Dark Breath, I wouldn't be surprised if his weapon is focused on applying debuffs, possibly with Menace targeting or something similar.

Conrad: Masked Lance

Currently has Barrier Lance, which grants a +7 version of Warding Stance.

Conrad is essentially a bulkier version of Berkut, being a slow lance cavalry with middling Atk and high defenses. He is actually tied with Jeigan for the highest base Res of all lance cavalry after Dragonflowers. His default skills are Bracing Stance and Chill Atk, which don't say much other than he's bulky and was originally intended to be used on enemy phase.

Unlike Banutu, Conrad has options in the B slot that he would rather run over Quick Riposte, so he'll definitely want a guaranteed follow-up on his weapon, especially since this weapon would need to compete against Arcane Qiang. As a bulky unit, he would also appreciate any kind of damage reduction he can get as well as follow-up prevention, the latter of which Arcane Qiang also has.

While bulky lance cavalry isn't a particularly crowded class, it would be nice to get some kind of gimmick to set him apart from Duessel and Zeke as well as set the weapon apart from Arcane Qiang, which has pretty much everything that a slow lance cavalry would want.

Silque: Staff of Lilies

Currently has Melancholy, which inflicts Guard and resets the Special cooldown on the target and all enemies within 2 spaces of the target after combat.

Silque is slow and physically bulky with the highest base Def stat of all staff units, tied with Spring Bruno and Valentine Lissa with maximum Dragonflowers. In fact, her stat spread is identical to Lissa's other than the fact that Lissa has 1 more HP and 7 more Res from her extra stats for being an armor.

Silque default skills are Dazzling Staff and Staff Experience, which doesn't really say anything other than the fact that her new weapon will have Wrathful Staff on it.

I'm expecting the weapon to double down on Special denial, perhaps inflicting Guard at the start of the turn and having a Tie-like effect with more lenient targeting. It would be really cool to have her grant Brave Tiki's pre-combat anti-battery effect either as a status effect or as a Drive-like effect.

I'm hoping they don't tie any of her effects to her stats. Despite having the highest Def stat in her class, it isn't actually that high compared to units in other classes.

Duo Alfonse: Imbued Koma

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• If unit's Special is fully charged at start of combat:
  • +5 to all stats in combat
  • Follow-up prevention

Alfonse's Duo skill charges the Special of himself and infantry allies within a 3-space-wide cross by 2 points.

Alfonse's entire kit revolves around landing a single hit with an Open the Future activation, which is pretty outdated given the number of units that have damage reduction on the opponent's first attack. It would be a waste to give him percentage damage reduction nullification to fix this because it's an effect on Special Spiral 4, which is the logical progression of his default Special Spiral 3, but forcing him to need Special Spiral 4 to overcome this is also not a great situation for his usability.

Additionally, Alfonse needs to use his Duo skill before his first round of combat in order to actually function. He definitely wants to get 2 stacks of Quickened Pulse on his weapon so that he can save his Duo skill for later.

Since he is intended to have his Special fully charged at the start of combat, Alfonse would really want to be able to run Finish somewhere on his kit. He currently has Close Counter in his A slot, so giving him Finish on his weapon would be nice. However allowing him to give up Close Counter to run 2 stacks of Finish seems somewhat ridiculous. They could move Close Counter to his weapon, but then he'd be required to get yet another premium skill that he doesn't already have, which makes him hard for average players to use.

Some kind of Vantage effect would also be nice since his defenses aren't super amazing (alternatively, make his defenses more amazing like Duo Askr). He doesn't have any stand-out stats that he could run a Preempt-like condition with, so it'd probably be best to also tie it to his Special being charged at the start of combat.

Edelgard: Victorious Axe

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• If the number of enemies within 2 spaces (excluding target) is greater than or equal to the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding self):
  • Guaranteed follow-up

The base effect condition is almost certainly being replaced with a Blow-or-Solo condition like most of the others with the same condition.

I'm expecting Edelgard to borrow effects from the other Edelgards, just like the Byleths, Dimitri, and Claude did. Galeforce, damage reduction, and passive healing are the most likely candidates. A mobility effect like +1 movement or Charge is also probable.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

Oooh! Edelgard! I hope she gets Galeforce on her Weapon so she can double Galeforce like most others. The offensive half Null Follow-Up and Tempo would be great, along with Special charge +1. If she gets more mobility, that would be even more amazing.

[Diovani Bressan]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:56 AM, Diovani Bressan said:

For next month, I expect Edelgard, Bantu, Silque and NY Alfonse, with Conrad as the grail unit.

Yep, got it right this time.

I am actually not that interested in these refinements.

Also, I don't know... I don't expect Raging Storm on Edelgard... I can see her getting special charge per hit and better way to get the guaranteed follow-up (blow-or-solo, like how Ice Dragon said), but free galeforce? I don't think so.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Oooh! Edelgard! I hope she gets Galeforce on her Weapon so she can double Galeforce like most others. The offensive half Null Follow-Up and Tempo would be great, along with Special charge +1. If she gets more mobility, that would be even more amazing.

Her weapon already has a guaranteed follow-up, so I wouldn't expect her to also get Null Follow-Up. Fast units rarely have follow-up prevention, and slow units rarely have both follow-up prevention and Null Follow-Up. If you actually end up in the niche case where you do need both effects, Edelgard is an infantry unit and can forgo some stats to run the Null Follow-Up Sacred Seal.

Also because she's an infantry unit, she can already run Tempo in the B slot, so there's little reason for them to put it on her weapon. She isn't fast enough to reliably run Dodge skills, so the only real competition for her B slot is with Bulwark and some tier-4 skills.

 

27 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Also, I don't know... I don't expect Raging Storm on Edelgard... I can see her getting special charge per hit and better way to get the guaranteed follow-up (blow-or-solo, like how Ice Dragon said), but free galeforce? I don't think so.

Something I would actually like to see is Edelgard get Galeforce like her other non-Brave versions, but with an "on kill" condition. This makes it harder for her to break walls by just bashing her head against them a few more times, but still lets her take out fragile units just as easily.

[Tybrosion]

Edelgard being the last initial TH unit (RIP Mercedes and every other 3*-4* staff) to get a refine better have been worth the wait.

Note: I am literally only saying this because I inexplicably have a +4 academy Edelgard.

[Xenomata]

10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Something I would actually like to see is Edelgard get Galeforce like her other non-Brave versions, but with an "on kill" condition

That is just... how Galeforce is supposed to work in the main games.

[Diovani Bressan]

New refinements are here:

[Ice Dragon]

Banutu: Wizened Breath

Base effect is:

• Dragonstone common effect
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • For each of the opponent's stats, if the opponent does not nullify penalties to that stat:
    • Reduces that stat in combat by 6 minus the penalty on that stat, minimum 0 (i.e. Seal 4 with a maximum penalty of 6 instead of 7)
  • Inflicts -6 to all stats as a status effect to opponent after combat (i.e. Seal 4 with a maximum penalty of 6 instead of 7)

Refine effect is:

• If opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat or with Stance condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Follow-up prevention

Wizened Breath essentially gets a weaker version of Seal 4 for all stats, inflicting a maximum penalty of 6 instead of 7 in combat and after combat, without the Guard effect and fixed in-combat stat penalty. Additionally, it grants +8 to all stats and follow-up prevention.

It's not bad for a 4-star unit. Banutu would've liked to have damage reduction on top due to his low Res making it difficult to reliably run Dragon Wall, but an effective +14 to all stats as long as the opponent doesn't nullify their penalties is still pretty decent and might actually make Dragon Wall viable if you focus his build around it.

Conrad: Masked Lance

Base effect is:

• With a Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Reduces opponent's Atk/Def/Res in combat by 20% of unit's visible Res
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Dragon Wall 3

No guaranteed follow-up is a bummer since he doesn't have access to a guaranteed follow-up on player phase, and despite the condition on his base effect, this essentially locks him to enemy phase with Quick Riposte.

On the other hand, he gets about +16/8/16/16 in combat, which is pretty sizable, on top of getting Dragon Wall. The entire effective +16 Res counts towards Dragon Wall, and he has the highest base Res among lance cavalry, so this alone is probably enough to at least make him worth considering, even if his player-phase presence is nearly non-existent. At least this means he can run Distant Stance without needing to worry about the fact that it doesn't work on player phase.

Silque: Staff of Lilies

Base effect is:

• Wrathful Staff 3
• Melancholy+
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat

Refine effect is:

• With Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Inflicts -6 Atk/Spd as a status effect to opponent and enemies within 2 spaces of opponent after combat
• Grants the following to allies within 2 spaces:
  • +6 Def/Res in combat
  • 7 HP recovery after combat

Basically Melancholy + Fear + Slow + Staff of Tribute. And +8 to all stats. Good stuff.

Duo Alfonse: Imbued Koma

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• If unit's Special is fully charged at start of combat:
  • +5 to all stats in combat
  • Follow-up prevention
  • Reduces damage taken by 20% of Def, excluding from AoE Specials (new)

Refine effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guard effect
  • Nullifies 50% of Deep Wounds' effect
  • Deals additional damage equal to 15% of Def when Special activates

No Quickened Pulse effect is pretty disappointing because it means he needs to rely on his Duo skill, other skills slots, or teammates to charge his Special the first time.

Otherwise, Alfonse is literally just a blue Duo Askr (they have identical Def/Res stats with maximum Dragonflowers and only their weapons equipped), but with healing and more damage when he activates his Special in exchange for not getting a guaranteed follow-up or damage reduction against AoE Specials.

Since Open the Future has healing on it, Alfonse can at least afford to pass up a Finish skill in the A slot to run a Close Counter skill at the cost of some defensive stats. Combined with Duo Askr having the extremely strong Opened Domain skill, this makes Alfonse slightly less bulky than Askr, but hits harder.

He does still need to run Special Spiral due to his lack of a guaranteed follow-up and his reliance on having his Special fully charged at the start of combat, and ideally, he upgrades that to Special Spiral 4 to get around opponents with percentage damage reduction.

Edelgard: Victorious Axe

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• If HP is 25% or higher or the number of enemies within 2 spaces (excluding target) is greater than or equal to the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding self) (HP condition is new):
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Refine effect is:

• With a Blow-or-Solo condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Additional damage equal to 10% of Atk (including AoE Specials)
• With a Blow condition:
  • If there are no adjacent allies after combat (after post-combat movement effects), activates Galeforce effect

I laughed when I saw what the update to the base effect's condition was. That option is indeed an option.

This refine is extremely tame to balance out the fact that it gets Raging Storm. It's just +8 to all stats and an additional 8-9 damage with lenient conditions. I think they might have actually overcompensated by a bit, but Raging Storm is still a really good skill effect to have when it doesn't even take up a skill slot this time, so even without any new skill effects, I think Edelgard will still work out just fine. Infantry have really good passive skill options, after all.

 

EDIT:

Overall thoughts:

Silque looks fun. It's a damned shame she can't equip Def/Res Smoke. She looks like she'll be a god-tier support in Rokkr Sieges.

Alfonse is a very needy version of Duo Askr that does a bit more damage and is a bit less bulky. His refine is really good, but he needs a lot of premium skills he doesn't already have in order to make the most of his weapon, which is kind of a shame.

Edelgard looks good, even if she's not broken like her Brave and Harmonized versions.

Conrad is pretty good despite being a Grail unit, even if he's still stuck running Quick Riposte (now if only Ganglot weren't the only source of Quick RIposte 4). Banutu is fine for a 4-star unit, and he might actually be viable as one of those annoying unkillable units you occasionally see in PvP modes since he's a giant pile of stats and has access to dragon-exclusive skills.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[Diovani Bressan]

I wished Bantu had Smoke effect insted of Seal effect. Only debuffing the target and not also foes within 2 spaces of target is very lame.

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I wished Bantu had Smoke effect insted of Seal effect. Only debuffing the target and not also foes within 2 spaces of target is very lame.

I would have given him some kind of dragon boosting passive. Feel like for his character he should be a unit you're encouraged to deploy with Tiki.

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I wished Bantu had Smoke effect insted of Seal effect. Only debuffing the target and not also foes within 2 spaces of target is very lame.

Since he has the Seal 4 effect, if you're using him as a tank, he doesn't really need to debuff anything else since he gets the same stat penalties on them regardless of their debuffs. You just can't use him as a debuffer on player phase since his debuffs don't splash, and he can't take advantage of Dominance or Foe Penalty Doubler.