General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Nowi's Husband]

I'm very happy Soren is getting something, he's a pretty major character to get screwed over with a generic silver weapon.  I hope it's a green version of Dire Thunder to simulate his Adept skill.  As for Leo, I'm just hoping the refine effect brings him to the standard of Gravity+ with AOE debuff.  I don't have Eirika so I don't care what hers does.

[Punished Dayni]

48 minutes ago, Nowi's Husband said:

I'm very happy Soren is getting something, he's a pretty major character to get screwed over with a generic silver weapon.  I hope it's a green version of Dire Thunder to simulate his Adept skill.  As for Leo, I'm just hoping the refine effect brings him to the standard of Gravity+ with AOE debuff.  I don't have Eirika so I don't care what hers does.

Hers was the same as Ephraim's pre-refine: +3 Atk Hone. Great for Rally builds, but I wonder what they'll do with a refined Seiglinde.

Probably not the same as Ephraim's, but we'll see.

[pumpkinspice48]

10 hours ago, Dayni said:

Hers was the same as Ephraim's pre-refine: +3 Atk Hone. Great for Rally builds, but I wonder what they'll do with a refined Seiglinde.

Probably not the same as Ephraim's, but we'll see.

Hopefully it's something different.  Ephraim's refine wouldn't be as useful on her since she's already relatively fast.  And with her low def it'll be harder for her to stay above 90% hp.

[bottlegnomes]

Eirika's biggest problem is damage output IIRC, so a lazy fix would be built-in DB3.

[Yexin]

i don't want to read the whole topic, but still

 

i think these characters would definitely benefit an upgrade, or even a personal weapon

 

MCorrin, i imagine something like darting blow 3 and death blow 1 after upgrading

Roy, i don't know why, but i think he could probably get a "felicia's plate" treatment, so he could get dc and the "damage calculated with foe's lower defense" effect

Azura, i think she should get her Blessed Lance, with something like renewal 3 and atk smoke

Camilla, she has a "personal" weapon in fates, and she should have it in heroes as well, with something like res+3 and fury

Laslow, he has a personal weapon too, and i imagine it similar to raven's basilikos, a sort of lad 3 but with def/res -3 instead of -5

Lilina, she could get Forblaze with effectiveness against dragons and something like special cooldown count -1

Lloyd, they could improve his Regal Blade's effect, something like "if foe has 50% hp or more, unit gets atk/spd +3 during combat"

Lyon: his Naglfar is just underwhelming in heroes, they should give the tome something like distant def 3

Odin, they should give him his grimoire, with a "wo dao + killing edge" effect, just like hauteclere

Oliver: HIS MAIN TOME IS NOSFERATU, WHY DOESN'T HE HAVE IT IN HEROES?!? it could be something like "recovers a number of hp equal to half damage dealt to the enemy" and, i don't know, res+3, or res ploy

Rebecca: Rienfleche anyone? swift sparrow 2 and wo dao effect

Seth: i mean come on, ruby sword? seriously? give him at least a "Seth's Sword" with atk/def bond if an infantry unit is within 2 spaces, and atk+3

Sophia: one word: Apocalypse, "atk/res stance 2" and effectiveness against dragons

Tailtiu: Ayra has no major Odo blood, yet she has a personal weapon, then why is that Tailtiu doesn't? "Tailtiu's tome", legendary blade tome without special cooldown count +1

Ursula with Bolting, a "firesweep" effect, and res+3

 

i think that's pretty much it, for me

Edited February 26, 2018 by Yexin

[bottlegnomes]

This reminded me that Basilikos is an even bigger slap in the face to Linus since L&D would've been a great skill for his personality.

It'd be funny if they gave Lyon a built-in Bow Breaker 3 on top of the Raven effect. If they really wanted to get silly, colorless breaker 3.

[redlight]

10 hours ago, Yexin said:

Sophia: one word: Apocalypse, "atk/res stance 2" and effectiveness against dragons

Tailtiu: Ayra has no major Odo blood, yet she has a personal weapon, then why is that Tailtiu doesn't? "Tailtiu's tome", legendary blade tome without special cooldown count +1

Sophia doesn't need Apocalypse. She functions really well as raventome mage. She's better than Lyon because she can easily be merged (Lyon refinement when?). If someone's gonna get Apocalypse, it's Raigh. He doesn't have a niche like Sophia does. And even if she does get Apocalypse with the effect you described, people are still gonna prefer using a raventome instead.
Tailtiu doesn't really need a new prf since she's got a good stat spread as well as being the best blue mage that doesn't have a prf. Even better is that she's a 4*unit, meaning better access to merges (I've gotten 6 so far, but I've foddered 3). And that argument with Ayra is quite meh. IS just gave her that weapon to make her even bigger whale bait. Minor and Major Holy blood didn't have anything to do with it.

[Vaximillian]

10 hours ago, Yexin said:

Tailtiu: Ayra has no major Odo blood, yet she has a personal weapon, then why is that Tailtiu doesn't?

Friegian Thoron; 14 Mt, 2 Rng, Wrath 2.

[Yexin]

6 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Sophia doesn't need Apocalypse. She functions really well as raventome mage. She's better than Lyon because she can easily be merged (Lyon refinement when?). If someone's gonna get Apocalypse, it's Raigh. He doesn't have a niche like Sophia does. And even if she does get Apocalypse with the effect you described, people are still gonna prefer using a raventome instead.
Tailtiu doesn't really need a new prf since she's got a good stat spread as well as being the best blue mage that doesn't have a prf. Even better is that she's a 4*unit, meaning better access to merges (I've gotten 6 so far, but I've foddered 3). And that argument with Ayra is quite meh. IS just gave her that weapon to make her even bigger whale bait. Minor and Major Holy blood didn't have anything to do with it.

well, sophia can become viable, but she needs A LOT of investment and, unless you're really fond of her to the point that you masturbate on her, she's not a character that deserves the use of so many resources: giving her a personal tome would be a quicker way to make her viable with no need to merge he up to 5* 40+10; still, raigh is a good candidate for apocalypse as well

 

tailtiu's personal tome is mostly something i'd personally like to see happen, yet i do think it's unfair to make ayra with a higher bst and a personal weapon, while tailtiu gets basically nothing but a nice 4* drive spd 2 and a blade tome

also, soren and tailtiu are quite similar (soren's offensive spread is 33/33, tailtiu's one is 32/35), so why is soren getting a personal tome, while tailtiu isn't?

 

but after all that's my list of characters i think would need a personal weapon/a refinement, we don't have to agree

Edited February 26, 2018 by Yexin

[redlight]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

well, sophia can become viable, but she needs A LOT of investment and, unless you're really fond of her to the point that you masturbate on her, she's not a character that deserves the use of so many resources: giving her a personal tome would be a quicker way to make her viable with no need to merge he up to 5* 40+10; still, raigh is a good candidate for apocalypse as well

 

tailtiu's personal tome is mostly something i'd personally like to see happen, yet i do think it's unfair to make ayra with a higher bst and a personal weapon, while tailtiu gets basically nothing but a nice 4* drive spd 2 and a blade tome

also, soren and tailtiu are quite similar (soren's offensive spread is 33/33, tailtiu's one is 32/35), so why is soren getting a personal tome, while tailtiu isn't?

 

but after all that's my list of characters i think would need a personal weapon/a refinement, we don't have to agree

Lot of investment for Sophia is Divine Dew. 4*+10 is very easy compared to that, but you'd need that 20000 feathers for that raudraven+. Feathers come more easily than Divine Dew so it's not that big of a minus. Besides, we already have Falchions among reds, like 5. I don't even think Apocalypse is even going to be a dragon slaying weapon. If it's introduced then it will fix a unit's weakness. I have feeling that it'll be like Great Flame or the Trick Room equivalent of Heroes, though you disregard this sentence

Soren fails to find a niche among green mages with his middling speed, lack of a prf and the rest of his stats are pretty meh. Tailtiu has a better stat spread comparable to Nino's with 1 less attack, speed and res; 2 less def; 6 more HP. If she's similar to Nino, does that also mean Nino should get a prf? Tailtiu is already good enough as she is.

Edited February 26, 2018 by silveraura25

[The Lord Of Gems]

Navarre: Navarre's Blades (Yes, He Dual Wields Them)
Base Stats: Might 16. Accelerates Special Trigger -1 And Deals +10 Damage When Special Triggers.
Refinery: Grants Unit +4 Atk During Combat When Fighting A Male Unit, But -4 Atk When Fighting A Female Unit.

Saizo: Flame Shuriken
Base Stats: Might 14. Speed + 3. Unit Targets The Lower Of Foe's Def/Res When Attacking. Target And Units Within Two Spaces Suffer Def/Res -5 After Combat.
Refinery: Grants Allies Within Two Spaces Atk +4 After Any Combat This Unit Initiates.

Jakob: Jakob's Tray
Base Stats: Might 14. When Attacked, Grants +8 Defense. Target And Units Within Two Spaces Suffer Atk/Spd/Def/Res -5 After Combat.
Refinery: Grants Unit Atk +4 During Combat When Opponent Has 70% HP Or Higher.

Oboro: Oboro's Spear
Base Stats: Might 16. Unit Gains +6 Atk/Def When Initiating Combat. Unit Deals +10 Damage When Special Triggers.
Refinery: Accelerates Special Trigger -1.

[Ildanach]

10 hours ago, The Lord Of Gems said:

Navarre: Navarre's Blades (Yes, He Dual Wields Them)
Base Stats: Might 16. Accelerates Special Trigger -1 And Deals +10 Damage When Special Triggers.
Refinery: Grants Unit +4 Atk During Combat When Fighting A Male Unit, But -4 Atk When Fighting A Female Unit.

Saizo: Flame Shuriken
Base Stats: Might 14. Speed + 3. Unit Targets The Lower Of Foe's Def/Res When Attacking. Target And Units Within Two Spaces Suffer Def/Res -5 After Combat.
Refinery: Grants Allies Within Two Spaces Atk +4 After Any Combat This Unit Initiates.

Jakob: Jakob's Tray
Base Stats: Might 14. When Attacked, Grants +8 Defense. Target And Units Within Two Spaces Suffer Atk/Spd/Def/Res -5 After Combat.
Refinery: Grants Unit Atk +4 During Combat When Opponent Has 70% HP Or Higher.

Oboro: Oboro's Spear
Base Stats: Might 16. Unit Gains +6 Atk/Def When Initiating Combat. Unit Deals +10 Damage When Special Triggers.
Refinery: Accelerates Special Trigger -1.

Navarre's Blades is essentially a refined Hauteclere at base. So not only should that not be given a refinery effect, you're basing it on something the game most likely doesn't track. Definitely too much.

Flame Shuriken is essentially Felicia's Plate but with the smoke effect 1 tier lower and an added spd +3. Refinery effect is a mix of refined and unrefined Cymbeline. Questionable, but I'll avoid saying definitively one way or another.

Jakob's Tray is just short of a 14 mt refined Smoke Dagger+ but with an added Steady Stance 4, so it doesn't need a refinement. Opponent HP threshold effects typically target 100%.  Too much again.

16 Mt and +6 Atk/Def when initiating already makes Oboro's Spear similar to Siegbert's Dark Greatsword (16 mt +4 Atk/Def) in form, but superior.  Adding the Wo Dao effect is already absurd. Any refinery at this point is way unnecessary, but the killer effect is a really underwhelming at the same time. Waaaaaaaaaaay too much.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ildanach

[Marbels]

Not gonna bother covering unit who have a prf that need a refine, i think its obvious who needs it.

 

as for who should get a new weapon:

Shanna (and Gwendolyn) with Maltet. Maltet wouldn't be anything too crazy, just a  killer effect + dragon effectiveness. possibly a refine including another effective against(maybe fliers, would be cool)

Azama with Divine Retribution.reduce atk -40, res+3 def+3 spd+3 hp+10 , reflect's 50% of damage dealt to him back to foe after combat(minimum 10), also deals 10 damage to foes within 3 spaces

Fae with Divinestone. literally just Expriation but spd +3

Mae with Seraphim. Effective against Dragons + Fury 3

Marisa (and for no real reason also Saber)with Sashmir. its just Wo Dao, can be refined for Killer effect.

Hawkeye should also get Basillikos

Ursula with Bolting. 3 range weapon with built in death blow, cannot counterattack

Narcian with Rune Axe. atk+3 heals 50% of damage dealt on each attack in combat.

 

[SSbardock84]

Obviously the Askr trio. Tbh I think they'll be getting one, otherwise I think they would've given the characters the stat boost weapon upgrades. I hope that they're big upgrades too, because these characters have just been left in the dust. Well, they kind of were near the beginning of the game. Sharena stood with it for a while though. On this note they need to do something though to make them stronger. Maybe upgrade them to Legendary Heroes at some point or something.

[Ice Dragon]

16 hours ago, Yexin said:

well, sophia can become viable, but she needs A LOT of investment and, unless you're really fond of her to the point that you masturbate on her, she's not a character that deserves the use of so many resources: giving her a personal tome would be a quicker way to make her viable with no need to merge he up to 5* 40+10; still, raigh is a good candidate for apocalypse as well

"A lot of investment" seems to only be 20,000 feathers for Raudhrraven+, which is a paltry sum compared to some other characters. Everything else in her standard build is available at 4-star rarity.

Sophia is still the best user of Raudhrraven+ in the game.

 

16 hours ago, Yexin said:

also, soren and tailtiu are quite similar (soren's offensive spread is 33/33, tailtiu's one is 32/35), so why is soren getting a personal tome, while tailtiu isn't?

Those 2 points of Spd do matter when you're in that range. The high Spd tiers are very crowded.

There's also the fact that green tomes need a lot of help right now. Berkut's Lance is wrecking their ability to actually deal with the units they're supposed to be dealing with.

 

1 hour ago, Marbels said:

Marisa (and for no real reason also Saber)with Sashmir. its just Wo Dao, can be refined for Killer effect.

"Shamshir".

 

1 hour ago, Marbels said:

Hawkeye should also get Basillikos

What would Hawkeye do with Basilikos? Hawkeye's niche is being a slow infantry axe user with good mixed bulk. Basilikos actively hinders him.

[thecrimsonflash]

I think because it is PoR mist, they should give her a rune sword as a weapon, it would have 12 might, be able to counter regardless of distance, have the absorb effect and deal damage based on the weaker of the foe's defense and resistance, and can be refined to have the absorb+ effect or the usual wrathful/dazzling staff effect, even amongst healers mist is regarded as one of if not the worst, so I see no reason why not give her something extra, might even make her relevant for once and could open the door for more prf staff weapons.

[TheWill]

Right now, the 5* bases that are outdated need it the most. For a quick glance, I'd like:

• The Askr Trio
• Roy (maybe after release of inevitable Legendary Hero Roy)
• Male Corrin
• Odin: Some unique tome with an extravagant to match his personality. He needs it more than anyone considering Tailtiu outclasses him at almost everything. 
• Karel: Since their adamant in not demoting him, a PRF weapon (acceptable for Fir & Karla to also get it) is necessary. 
• Mist: An update for her is inevitable if she's taking a slot next Legendary Hero banner.
• Young Tiki: Despite being the most elusive dragon, her fantastic mixed bulk is ultimately underwhelming now. 
• Ninian: I would like a Prf weapon for her since she's 5* base and whilst dancers are amazing, some assistance offensively would be desirable. Something to at least to close the gap offensively in comparison to Olivia or something to help add onto her bulk.
• Merric: Expand on his flier-slaying niche, since he's still inferior to Sonya in every way. 

Some of these are hit and miss (eg. I'd like YTiki and Ninian to get prfs, however LB+ might ultimately end up better regardless). But can't hurt to try.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

What would Hawkeye do with Basilikos? Hawkeye's niche is being a slow infantry axe user with good mixed bulk. Basilikos actively hinders him.

Probably just fits him the most (lore-wise). Not much competition, though since it's only between him or Y!Bartre. I guess Hawkeye did get a unique animation though. There's also potentially Linus to match his brother, if we ever get him (since they'll never add his father). 

[bottlegnomes]

7 hours ago, Marbels said:

Ursula with Bolting. 3 range weapon with built in death blow, cannot counterattack

That would both be broken as hell. Firesweep weapons, which this would effectively be since no one has 3 range, are already bordering on OP and they don't have +6 attack. Assuming it's 14 might since that's the general prf tome might, that gives her 54/37 offensive stats with L&D and literally unmatched range. With spd+3 and horse buffs, that'd be absolutely awful to deal with, 60/46, and would require a tanky green to eat a hit to bait and then kill on the next turn since she wouldn't be killable on counter.

Rune Axe seems a little OP too, but Narcien is pretty mediocre so maybe it wouldn't be broken on him.

[Vaximillian]

7 hours ago, Marbels said:

Ursula with Bolting. 3 range weapon with built in death blow, cannot counterattack

3 range? Built-in Death Blow? Just no. 2 range firesweep is already enough to represent siege tomes.

[Vince777]

5 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

 

Probably just fits him the most (lore-wise). Not much competition, though since it's only between him or Y!Bartre. 

What about Dart (or Geitz..)?

[Marbels]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

What would Hawkeye do with Basilikos? Hawkeye's niche is being a slow infantry axe user with good mixed bulk. Basilikos actively hinders him.

lore. also you dont -have- to use the LaD effect, you can pick +res or +def

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Marbels said:

lore. also you dont -have- to use the LaD effect, you can pick +res or +def

Exactly. Then what's the point of giving him Basilikos when by all means he should get a brand new weapon with a refine effect tailored for his stats instead? The developers have shown many times that they have no problems materializing new weapons out of thin air. It would be a disservice to Hawkeye to give him Basilikos.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

10 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

That would both be broken as hell.

 

10 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

3 range? Built-in Death Blow? Just no. 2 range firesweep is already enough to represent siege tomes.

That is what Distant Counter and Close Counter is for, those skills allow a unit to counter at any range.

[Marbels]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Exactly. Then what's the point of giving him Basilikos when by all means he should get a brand new weapon with a refine effect tailored for his stats instead? The developers have shown many times that they have no problems materializing new weapons out of thin air. It would be a disservice to Hawkeye to give him Basilikos.

the point is lore.

they can change the refine if they really want to. besides going from 25 to 35 spd and 49 to 59 atk with double LaD sounds like a clean deal. which again makes sense because he's a Beserker class anyway.

[bottlegnomes]

5 hours ago, XRay said:

That is what Distant Counter and Close Counter is for, those skills allow a unit to counter at any range.

Actually, that's an interesting point. Do those programmatically give actually all-range countering or do they give the user 1 or 2 range on EP? Based on that they're different skills, and I believe, restricted to certain weapon types, my guess would be the latter.

Still, a weapon that only a unit with a DC weapon or that runs DC, both of which are more common but still fairly rare, could counter it seems rather broken, especially with built-in DB3 and on a horse unit meaning effective 6 range and, barring terrain, a grand total of 12 safe tiles.

Edited February 28, 2018 by bottlegnomes