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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's not that they don't understand their players; that's largely irrelevant to making weapons for characters. They don't understand their characters, how to build them, and how to make them relevant, specifically the ones that aren't big in the meta.

 

Weaker characters deserve to have stronger weapons to compensate for their weaker stat spreads. (Note that that doesn't mean strong units should or shouldn't have strong weapons, just that weaker units are absolutely deserving of having above-par weapons.)

Nephenee was fast, but weak, and was effectively a weaker version of Brave Lucina.

Apologies. What I meant to say was that they don't understand players' choices when it comes to SI for the most part. Should've specified so that's on me

What I meant by her unrefined weapon being a tad too powerful is if you compare it to other modern slaying/effective weapons like Axe of Virility, the unrefined weapon simply does more than another unrefined weapon. I can understand her being weak in terms of attack, but so are other units that lack speed or something like

Edited by silveraura25

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5 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

What I meant by her unrefined weapon being a tad too powerful is if you compare it to other modern slaying/effective weapons like Axe of Virility, the unrefined weapon simply does more than another unrefined weapon. I can understand her being weak in terms of attack, but so are other units that lack speed or something like

Again, I don't think it matters how it compares to other weapons that Nephenee cannot equip. What matters is how Nephenee compares with her competition that competes for a team slot, not how Dauntless Lance compares to weapons that never compete for the same skill slot.

You fight opponents with units that have stats, weapons, and skills, not with disembodied weapons. It doesn't matter how strong or weak a weapon is in a vacuum.

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25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Again, I don't think it matters how it compares to other weapons that Nephenee cannot equip. What matters is how Nephenee compares with her competition that competes for a team slot, not how Dauntless Lance compares to weapons that never compete for the same skill slot.

You fight opponents with units that have stats, weapons, and skills, not with disembodied weapons. It doesn't matter how strong or weak a weapon is in a vacuum.

I really am bad at communicating and getting my points across. Apologies. What I mean is that Nephenee, a unit that is significantly stronger than Bartre, gets a weapon that is more powerful than that weaker unit's weapon

EDIT: different colors yes, but fulfill a similar role in killing armors

Edited by silveraura25

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28 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

I really am bad at communicating and getting my points across. Apologies. What I mean is that Nephenee, a unit that is significantly stronger than Bartre, gets a weapon that is more powerful than that weaker unit's weapon

EDIT: different colors yes, but fulfill a similar role in killing armors

I'd personally put Bartre at better at killing armors than Nephenee now. He has higher Atk, giving him more firepower at neutral weapon triangle, and his color allows him to cover blue and green armors, which are more common and more threatening than the combination of red and blue armors.

I think you're also selling Bartre short. His stat spread is very similar to that of Brave Ike's, which lets him do pretty much everything Brave Ike does other than tank Brave weapons. He never has been a weak character and was largely comparable to Nephenee.

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13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'd personally put Bartre at better at killing armors than Nephenee now. He has higher Atk, giving him more firepower at neutral weapon triangle, and his color allows him to cover blue and green armors, which are more common and more threatening than the combination of red and blue armors.

I think you're also selling Bartre short. His stat spread is very similar to that of Brave Ike's, which lets him do pretty much everything Brave Ike does other than tank Brave weapons. He never has been a weak character and was largely comparable to Nephenee.

But Nephenee also has CD-1. Not immediate damage, but it can help out with something like instant Glimmer.

I didn't mention Bartre being weak, just being weaker than Neph

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14 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

But Nephenee also has CD-1. Not immediate damage, but it can help out with something like instant Glimmer.

I didn't mention Bartre being weak, just being weaker than Neph

I personally don't think Bartre was ever weaker than Nephenee. He's always had a solid stat line as a physical enemy-phase unit and didn't have the problems Nephenee has with low HP and Atk.

The only reasons I feel he's not thought of as highly as I think he should are his meme infamy and the fact that green is bloated with some of the most overwhelmingly powerful units in the entire game at the top.

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Back from the dead, but it's not like anybody noticed I was gone.

NEW WEAPON: Clive's Lance

Base Effect: Mt 16. If unit initiates combat, unit deals 10 more damage, but takes 5 damage after combat.

Refine Effect: Effective against armored units.

Based on Clive's Lance from SOV, specifically its Tempest Lance and Armorcrush combat arts.

UPGRADED WEAPON: Durandal

Base Effect: Mt 16. If unit initiates combat, unit deals +6 damage (upgraded from Durandal's Death Blow 2 effect).

Refine Effect: Effective against dragons. Damage from Dragons is cut by 15%.

Durandal already had Death Blow 2, but that's a bit outdated, so it's now Death Blow 3. Dragon effectiveness is one of Durandal's canon attributes, so it fits. Damage reduction from Dragons is mostly there because Eliwood needs to be thrown a bone.

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Update_Weapon_Refinery_3.1.0.jpg?version

The following Heroes can learn these new character-specific weapon skills at 5★:

Icon Class Blue Tome.pngTome of Thoron
Hero who can learn this skill: Tailtiu: Thunder Noble

・ Tome of Thoron can be upgraded in the Weapon Refinery after it has been obtained.
・ To learn weapon skills, tap Allies, then Ally Growth, and then Learn Skills.

The following weapons can be upgraded or can gain additional special effects by using Arena Medals and Divine Dew:

Icon Class Red Sword.pngTyrfing
Hero who can learn this skill: Seliph: Heir of Light

Icon Class Green Tome.pngNaga
Hero who can learn this skill: Julia: Naga's Blood

Icon Class Green Tome.pngDivine Naga
Hero who can learn this skill: Deirdre: Lady of the Forest

 

Edited by Diovani Bressan

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There were datamine tags from the last update that are still unused. From their descriptions it sounds fitting for those of the Naga bloodline

Spoiler

Negate follow-up attack+stats, CC+negate adaptive damage, null+negate adaptive damage

As for Tailtiu, I dunno. Wrath tome would be fitting

I hope Seliph gets joint hone def/res as brazens aren't really all that great on weapons

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I am curious about Tailtiu's Tome. She has a Blade Tome, so... can it be another Legendary Blade Tome?

Here's another question: Will Julia have access to both Naga's and Divine Naga's refinement?

Also, Sigurd's Divine Tyrfing should be th the refines too, since we have both Naga tomes.

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1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am curious about Tailtiu's Tome. She has a Blade Tome, so... can it be another Legendary Blade Tome?

Here's another question: Will Julia have access to both Naga's and Divine Naga's refinement?

Also, Sigurd's Divine Tyrfing should be th the refines too, since we have both Naga tomes.

Sigurd's weapon is decent... In a defense team : -)

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9 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am curious about Tailtiu's Tome. She has a Blade Tome, so... can it be another Legendary Blade Tome?

Here's another question: Will Julia have access to both Naga's and Divine Naga's refinement?

Also, Sigurd's Divine Tyrfing should be th the refines too, since we have both Naga tomes.

I’d bet on either Slaying + Wrath (like Berserk Armads on a tome) or Slaying + Wo Dao (we don’t have a Nameless Blade-alike for tomes yet, and +10 damage on Special activations would probably still be good on Tailtiu if IntSys thinks Wrath might make her too good) for Tailtiu’s refine. Hoping for something with optional Wrath (because I can’t see them giving her Wrath as the base weapon), and I don’t think they would give that on a Bladetome (though I would love to be wrong).

I expect Julia to be able to get both Naga and Divine Naga’s refinements, but I wouldn’t complain if Divine Naga’s refinement was locked to Deirdre, if only so Sonya and Delthea could get their own personal weapon refines without having to share with Merric and Linde.

Sigurd’s Divine Tyrfing is a pretty alright weapon if you want Sigurd to tank stuff (possibly Seliph too, though unlike Sigurd he’s slow to the point where most foes will double him and doesn’t have Crusader’s Ward to neuter the follow-up attack), so I’m not sure it really needs a refinement. Seliph’s Tyrfing needs a pretty good one though, as Defiant DEF 2 As A Combat Buff Rather Than A Field Buff wasn’t that good when he debuted in 2017 and it hasn’t aged well since then.

I’d like Seliph to get a Tyrfing with Bracing Stance 3 and an optional Follow-Up Ring (since he could theoretically get it in FE4 I think, and it would be a good way to buff Seliph and reference the SPD buff that FE4!Tyrfing gave without having to give him +20 SPD on initiation or something), but I know that’s a pipe dream.

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3 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I expect Julia to be able to get both Naga and Divine Naga’s refinements, but I wouldn’t complain if Divine Naga’s refinement was locked to Deirdre, if only so Sonya and Delthea could get their own personal weapon refines without having to share with Merric and Linde.

There is also the possibility of Naga and Divine Naga having the same refinement, which maybe Naga base effect being Bracing Stance 2 instead of Bracing Stance 1 after the refinement.

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11 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

There is also the possibility of Naga and Divine Naga having the same refinement, which maybe Naga base effect being Bracing Stance 2 instead of Bracing Stance 1 after the refinement.

I hadn’t considered that. Although...

Spoiler

I saw a datamined skill on Reddit that was Close Counter & Null Adaptive Damage, and another that was Dull Ranged+Close & Null Adaptive Damage, so I’m thinking those could be for Naga and Divine Naga, respectively. Bracing Stance 2 for Julia could be neat too though, and was what I would’ve guessed before seeing the datamine stuff.

 

Edited by ILikeKirbys

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I want Seliph to get... Brazen Speed/Defense? Brazen Attack/Defense? Brazen Defense/Resistance?

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2 hours ago, Corrobin said:

I want Seliph to get... Brazen Speed/Defense? Brazen Attack/Defense? Brazen Defense/Resistance?

Brazens on weapons are pretty terrible if you ask me if his weapon's special refine really is one of the unused datamined skill tags from the last update that's pretty likely his (hint: Great Flame and Thunder Armads) and not what Seliph would want as he'd be pretty fucked at the point when his weapon activates. Joint def/res wouldn't be so bad, but I doubt it as Tyrfing has a in-combat buff so it'll be something along those lines. Maybe something similar to Cecilia's dagger. That'd be cool

Edited by silveraura25

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So

 

I noticed this is the very first time a refine evo weapon got a refinement, that being Divine Naga being originally a side weapon to Naga 

 

Im somewhat surprised Divine Naga is technically still a Tier 1 Legendary though, with Dragonslayer and buff cleanse with no stats in sight

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4 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

So

 

I noticed this is the very first time a refine evo weapon got a refinement, that being Divine Naga being originally a side weapon to Naga 

 

Im somewhat surprised Divine Naga is technically still a Tier 1 Legendary though, with Dragonslayer and buff cleanse with no stats in sight

I am dreaming of a "Instantly kill all Dragons on the field" refine, but as said its a dream.

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11 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am dreaming of a "Instantly kill all Dragons on the field" refine, but as said its a dream.

something like 2 Panel 20 damage Savage Blow that also makes them unable to attack, locked to 1 mov, also as we all know Reinhardt is a metaphor for Dragon so hes included

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23 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

something like 2 Panel 20 damage Savage Blow that also makes them unable to attack, locked to 1 mov, also as we all know Reinhardt is a metaphor for Dragon so hes included

Nah, not Sadistic enough and to easy. One needs to give the illusion of control and hope, just to utterly destroy it!

Thinking more of: "At start of Turn foes with Dragonstone inflict 20 damage within 2 spaces to other foes."

Basicly a ticking time bomb. You have to seperate the Dragon from the flock. And god forbid you are using an Armor Emblem with a Dragon on it... bye bye Armor March. But there is still hope!!! you can avoid it by being 2 spaces away from your dragon. If you use multiple dragons? good luck on not destroying yourself! But wait there is hope! Smart players can make use of this and put Teams/Units together that can actually take advantage of this to bring them into Desperation/Vantage range!!!

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Nah, Deirdre just needs a way to nullify adaptive damage on Divine Naga and then to keep Dull Everything because honestly that’s not a bad effect to have, especially now that Hone ATK 4 is a thing and opens up the possibility of other +7 stat buffs showing up in the future and Legendary Azura being able to give +6 and +7 to all stats on buffed allies.

Seriously, Deirdre and Julia would be so much better at Dragon-slaying if they could force Dragons to target their much higher RES. It’s why I was seriously considering giving my Deirdre Mystic Boost before I found out she was getting a refinement.

Edited by ILikeKirbys

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15 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Nah, Deirdre just needs a way to nullify adaptive damage on Divine Naga and then to keep Dull Everything because honestly that’s not a bad effect to have, especially now that Hone ATK 4 is a thing and opens up the possibility of other +7 stat buffs showing up in the future and Legendary Azura being able to give +6 and +7 to all stats on buffed allies.

Seriously, Deirdre and Julia would be so much better at Dragon-slaying if they could force Dragons to target their much higher RES. It’s why I was seriously considering giving my Deirdre Mystic Boost before I found out she was getting a refinement.

Spoiler

Datamine from the previous update shows these skill tags: CC+negate adaptive damage, null+negate adaptive damage. There's also negate follow-up attack+stats, but that seems to be Seliph's refine without a doupt as it's tailored towards his stats

 

Edited by silveraura25

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A refine I was thinking about for Mae is Seraphim: Grants Atk/Res+5 during combat. After combat, if unit attacked, deals 5 damage to unit, and the refine is Atk/Res Solo 3. With she has a high attack, her other stats are lacking. This way can the be a bruiser while referencing her style of play in Echoes.

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@silveraura25

Spoiler

So Julia's (assuming that first one's for her 'cause Divine Naga already has Dull Everything by default so it sounds like the second effect would go to Divine Naga and thus Deirdre) gonna get Close Counter? Were there any requirements to get CC to activate like how Saber's Golden Dagger requires his Special to be ready before he can sword people from a distance?

That weapon you said was for Seliph makes sense for him, since getting doubled is a big problem for him.

@Jingle Jangle That seems pretty good, like Ragnarok but more tailored toward Mae's statline. Although, why ATK/RES Solo instead of Brazen ATK/RES? Still, I want this to be a thing now.

So, just thought of some refinements:

Gwendolyn - Adorable Knight
Gwendolyn's Lance | MT 16 | Grants Special Cooldown -1.
Skill-Refine: If the number of Armored allies within 2 spaces > 2, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat, and if unit initiates combat, unit attacks twice.

Oscar - Agile Horseman
Oscar's Spear | MT 16 | If unit has WTA, boosts ATK by 20%. If unit has WTD, reduces ATK by 20%.
Skill-Refine: When at least 1 Infantry Axe and Infantry Bow ally are within 2 spaces, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat, and if unit initiates combat, unit attacks twice.

These two's effects represent their games' additional Triangle Attacks, with Gwendolyn getting the Armor Triangle Attack she could do with Bors and Barth and Oscar getting the Brothers Triangle Attack he could do with Boyd and Rolf. They both keep their default weapons with this, Gwendolyn because I like Slaying effect and Oscar to complete the Prf-Gem-weapon set with Titania and Palla.

Nino - Pious Mage
Wordless Tome | MT 14 | Grants ATK/SPD +5 during combat when adjacent to at least one ally.
Skill-Refine: Grants ATK/SPD +4 during combat when an Infantry Sword or Infantry Axe ally is within 2 spaces.

Nino puts down her Bladetome and picks up a new book that maximizes her offenses with ATK/SPD Bond 3 and a conditional ATK/SPD Bond 2 that works when an Infantry Sword or Infantry Axe ally (for examples, Lloyd and Linus) are within 2 spaces. Her defenses remain weak, but Desperation can patch over that flaw of hers, and the extra power and speed Nino can get from stacking ATK/SPD Bonds (especially now that it's available as a Sacred Seal as well as an A Slot skill) could be good for her.

Tharja - Dark Shadow
Waste | MT 9 | Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Skill-Refine: When unit initiates combat, grants SPD +6 during combat.

Tharja gets a Brave tome, which actually existed in Awakening so it's not just because I wanna see another Brave tome and think Tharja could be pretty alright with one. The Skill-Refine is just to help Tharja quad more, since she has the SPD to do so.

Would any of these be too good? Not good enough?

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3 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

@Jingle Jangle That seems pretty good, like Ragnarok but more tailored toward Mae's statline. Although, why ATK/RES Solo instead of Brazen ATK/RES? Still, I want this to be a thing now.

Tharja - Dark Shadow
Waste | MT 9 | Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Skill-Refine: When unit initiates combat, grants SPD +6 during combat.

Tharja gets a Brave tome, which actually existed in Awakening so it's not just because I wanna see another Brave tome and think Tharja could be pretty alright with one. The Skill-Refine is just to help Tharja quad more, since she has the SPD to do so.

Would any of these be too good? Not good enough?

The reason I chose of Atk/Res Solo instead of Brazen Atk/Res is because I don't want it to be too similar to Celica's Ragnarok tome.

As for Tharja's refine I can see it working.

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