General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[DLNarshen]

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Wing Sword and Rhomphaia have Flashing Blade as their refine effect, which is otherwise restricted to infantry and armor.

Well, that's embarrassing.  I use Caeda almost every day, I should probably know that. 

[Xenomata]

Cain's Bull Blade: During Combat, boosts unit's Atk/Def by number of allies within 2 spaces x2 (Max bonus of +6 to each stat)

Refine: If Cavalry allies within 2 spaces use sword, lance, or axe and unit initiates combat, unit attacks twice.

Abel's Panther Lance: Same as Bull Blade.

Refine: Same as Bull Blade

Hana's Katana: Effective against Armored foes.

Refine: Swift Sparrow 2 (Atk/Spd +4 on player phase)

Peri's Lance: Accelerates Special Trigger (CD Count -1).

Refine: At start of combat, if units HP <100%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +4 during combat.

 

Peri's skill icon is similar to her personal skill from Fire Emblem Fates, which is called Bloodthirst.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Xenomata

[Jingle Jangle]

Peri is a slaying edge with brazen all, I'm going to make good use out of this. The Christmas Cavs has owl weapon ehh, Hana got a super armor buster with swift sparrow.  For me, Peri and Hana won this round.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jingle Jangle

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Hana's Katana: Effective against Armored allies

Allies, eh?

[Xenomata]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Allies, eh?

Er... yep! Armored units are so powerful, Hana decided the only way to eliminate the problem was to "eliminate the problem"!

...directly from the source.

...I'm editing it out.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Allies, eh?

Quick! Stab that Nohrian scum Effie in the back.

[Xenomata]

I don't know how to feel about Bull Blade and Panther Lance. On the one hand, they appear to have a much more forgiving conditional Brave effect on weapons that are not only considered normal Personal weapons, but also provide more Atk just being near someone (which also so happens to be the trigger for the Brave effect). I'm not saying that's bad, because it's not. It's great in fact! We all know how deadly Alm is with his Double Lion Falchion, and he needs to stay healthy to get that to work. I find more concerning the Defense boost on the weapons, cause at base Abel has 25 Def and Cain has 27, which is pretty bad. Having a potential +6 just doesn't feel like it fixes any bulk problems any, and it certainly doesn't make me want to give either of them Bonfire instead of Luna. Maybe Speed would have been overkill? Honstly though, I doubt it.

Hana got exactly what I thought she'd get. Swift Sparrow 2 Armor killing weapon... it's more Atk and Spd than normal refines of Armorsmasher+, on top of the extra Might it has as a personal weapon, so I consider this a direct upgrade. I guess it doesn't mean anything for anyone who gave her a different weapon from her base, but my Hana is an armor killer anyway.

Peri is interesting. She essentially has a (slightly weaker now that I look again) Sealed Falchion that packs a slaying effect instead of a dragon slaying effect, and she might just have the statspread to make it work...

Edited April 9, 2019 by Xenomata

[Ice Dragon]

So Cain and Abel both get the same effect as Nifl Frostflowers and Muspell Fireposy, but with Atk and Def instead of Atk and Spd as their base effect. The refine is Triangle Attack with no stat boost, but only requires 1 ally in range and they must be sword, lance, or axe cavalry.

Hana just kills armors.

Peri gets Slaying Lance as its base effect and a weaker version of Sealed Falchion (4 points instead of 5 points to each stat) as the refine. Looks like you're just supposed to throw Fury 4 and Desperation on her and go to town.

[Anacybele]

Cain and Abel's new weapons are garbage, I don't recommend using them. It requires them to have allies within two spaces of them, particularly cavalry allies with the refines added. That doesn't work well with their movement range at all since cavalry units are often going far from one another. Why couldn't they just get stronger Brave weapons like Cherche and Klein?

[Diovani Bressan]

Oh, I liked Cain's and Abel's refinements. They will work very well on a Goad/Ward Cavalry Team, or with units like Kaden. I only have Cain, so maybe I can give him the refinement. 

I need a + Spd Cain now...

Edited April 9, 2019 by Diovani Bressan

[bottlegnomes]

Well, Peri's is pretty impressive. Maybe someday I'll actually build her.

Cain's and Abel's seem fine, but not enough to really make me care about them anymore than I would've before.

Hana I'm honestly a little disappointed that it's not L&D but that's mostly because I thought it would be funny to see just how low her defense got. In general, it's fairly solid even.

I do appreciate that they're getting a little more familiar with weapon effects and how to make them good but not game-breaking, and maybe it's all the crazy weapons we've been getting elsewhere recently, but it seems like the refinement effects have been getting a little blazé on the whole. Maybe that's just my general apathy toward the game though.

[Humanoid]

Sadly none of these weapons are worth learning without refining them, which I can't justify on these units at the moment. Giving generic refines to Prfs instead of the special one really ought to be cheaper, or cost refining stones instead of dew.

[redlight]

Cain and Abel's are a bit awkward with how cavalry are alone on player phase bcs of their movement range

Edited April 9, 2019 by redlight

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, redlight said:

Cain and Abel's are a bit awkward with how cavalry are alone on player phase bcs of their movement range

I am not a huge fan of it either, but at least it is not as restricting as Owl tomes.

[mcsilas]

So would the Christmas Cavaliers prefer +Atk or +Spd?

also feels nice to use them without the Brave Speed drop

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

So would the Christmas Cavaliers prefer +Atk or +Spd?

also feels nice to use them without the Brave Speed drop

I haven't run numbers yet, but I'd lean towards Atk if you're intending to be making use of the Triangle Attack Lite often and Spd if not.

[XRay]

38 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

So would the Christmas Cavaliers prefer +Atk or +Spd?

also feels nice to use them without the Brave Speed drop

If you plan to have them quad foes, Abel wants +Atk while Cain seems to wants +Spd. Generally, Brave units want +Atk, but they can sometimes want +Spd. I have not looked too deeply into it, but I assume it has to do with some kind ratio between damage output, bulk, and Spd. It is a little more complicated than the usual advice of "+Atk is better if foes are slow, +Spd is better if foes are fast" rule.

For comparison, Klein generally wants +Atk, but if you can afford to pimp him out with Brazen Atk/Spd, then +Spd becomes better. I remember first encountering this effect with Setsuna when I first tested her back in early 2017 against the Full List.

Against the Full List [+10, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury 4, 6/6/6/6], Cain wants +Atk like most Brave units, even Klein and Setsuna want +Atk too. However, against the Full List [+10, +Def, Moonbow, Fury 4, 6/6/6/6], all three exhibit the "Quadsuna effect" where +Spd is better than +Atk. Abel on the other hand always want +Atk if he has Brazen Atk/Spd, but he does display a very slight Quadsuna effect where he slightly prefers +Spd if he is running other A skills against the +Spd Full List.

Challenger List: Against Hard List, Full List [+Spd, Moonbow, Fury], and Full List [+Def, Moonbow, Fury]. Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 bonus buffs. Abel and Cain have 10/5/2/0 combat buffs to reflect their new Weapons.

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Abel (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Abel (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Abel (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Abel (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Abel (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Abel (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Cain (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Threaten Atk 3  
S: Brazen Atk Def 3  
  
Klein (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Klein (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Klein (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Klein (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Klein (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Klein (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Argent Bow  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Res 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  

 

[Diovani Bressan]

Oh, I found a +Spd Cain on my Barracks. I thought that I didn't have one. Too bad I don't have a Abel.

[GreatKnightEcho]

Refines all look pretty good. Christmas Cavs have my favorites. 

Also Abel's weapon looks like a shovel, which reminds me of Shovel Knight, so that means I'm basically obliged to use him.

[colossus86]

Not sure about there other applications but you can probably do some really nasty stuff with Cain and Abel on AR defense now. And considering that they were both pretty much worthless previously, I'd say this refine was a win for them. Even more so than Hanna and Perri imo since they just do the exact same things they did before just slightly better.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If I wanted to make the most out of Hana's new weapon as an anti armor, would +Atk or +Spd be better?

[Silverly]

32 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

If I wanted to make the most out of Hana's new weapon as an anti armor, would +Atk or +Spd be better?

Definitely +Atk. Speed is more situational since fast armors are rare if you’re using her for an armor check, and you can never go wrong with more attack. However, if you’re going for generalist setups, +Spd is fine.

[bottlegnomes]

59 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

If I wanted to make the most out of Hana's new weapon as an anti armor, would +Atk or +Spd be better?

25 minutes ago, Silverly said:

Definitely +Atk. Speed is more situational since fast armors are rare if you’re using her for an armor check, and you can never go wrong with more attack. However, if you’re going for generalist setups, +Spd is fine.

Echoing this. Even fast armors she should have enough speed to double meaning she's more concerned with doing enough damage to 2HKO them. Heck, even for generalist, I think she might prefer attack. I'd need to run numbers to back that up, but she'll essentially have 40 speed plus whatever boosts from A skills, seals, and ally supports. I almost feel like she'd want to take the Darting Blow seal and Sturdy Impact or something to keep from getting OHKOed on the counter since she's pretty frail.

[Kaden]

Pavise, L&D3 (default), Shield Pulse, and Heavy Blade Hana with her unique refined katana could work. Still a bit sketchy as she doesn't have a 2 cooldown Pavise like Karla, Linus, Lon'qu, and Raven because of their weapon's Killer effect. Escutcheon works, but she won't be able to reduce as much damage as she could have with Pavise.

So, now we wait for Shield Pulse 4. :p

[Jotari]

On 4/6/2019 at 9:05 PM, Jotari said:

 

I'm procrastinating, so I've decided to make up a refine affect for every weapon with Distant Counter because why not.

Alondite: Guard 3 (based on it's ability to negate critical hits in Path of Radiance)

Divine Mist: DEF/RES Bond 2 (based on this Tiki's With Everyone theme)

Dragonbind: Renewal 3 (because it's the only part of the Binding Blade that hasn't been referenced yet)

Expiration: If special triggers before combat (like Blazing Thunder, Rising Flame etc), deals+10 damage when special triggers (based on the prebattle attack Grima uses in Awakening. Neither Grima comes with the aoe attacks for some reason, but I don't think it's too weird to give a bonus effect you need something other than the default kit to make use of. In any case it achieves my goal of buffing Female Grima slightly more than Male Grima since he's more of an enemy phase unit than she is).

Gradivus: Renewal 3 (because it can restore health in game).

Leiptr: Special Spiral 3 (making Fjorm a more complete anti range unit, although if you want you could take Ice Mirror off her and double down on Special Spiral with something like Galeforce or Aether. That could be cool).

Ragnell: Dull Close (Comes from the fact that it Ignore's the Black Knight and Ashnard's blessed armour).

Raijinto: Death Blow 3 (because it has an atk+4 affect in game and a plain stat increase is already an option for other refines).

Siegfried: Armoured Blow 3 (because of it's def+4 affect and to mirror Raijinto).

Stout Tomahawk: Armoured Stance 3 (because it's what comes to mind when I think Stout and would pair well with his default Fierce Stance).

 

Thinking on this. An ability that would really add to Expiration without making it too crazy would be Null C Disrupt.