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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Leila's Keepsake: 14 MT - After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Def-6 on foe and units within 2 spaces through their next actions. Grants unit and allies with in 2 spaces Atk/Def+6 for 1 turn.
  • Refinement: If unit's HP > 25% Foe's damage is calculated using the higher of unit's Def or Res.

Affecting Atk and Def rather than the conventional stats for daggers is a bit weird, though it makes sense with the refinement effect. As for the refinement effect, I think 25% as the threshold is a bit too low.

Honestly, when I think of Matthew, the first thing I think of is how stupidly hard he cap rams Spd in FE7. I'd personally pick an effect that references that in the form of evasion, for example a 30% reduction in damage from the first hit from an opponent with a melee-range weapon or the effect of Sacae's Blessing against opponents with 100% HP at the start of combat.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Odin's Grimoire: 14 MT - During combat, if unit attacked, unit is granted +6 ATK.
  • Refinement: If unit initiates attack, unit attacks consecutively.

Too weak. Also, the wording is off. "If unit attacked" is wording used for after-combat effects. I'm not sure if you mean if Odin or the opponent initiates the attack, but either way, it's too weak.

The thing is that Odin's base Atk is 7 points lower than the next lowest blue infantry tome user (Caeda, Lucina, Robin), meaning his competition has both 6 points of Atk (accounting for the +1 Mt on a unique weapon) and Blarblade+ on top of whatever Odin has if Odin's weapon does not have Blarblade's effect.

With a 20-Mt weapon (I don't know when you want the +6 Atk to be active), he'd only pull slightly ahead of Olwen, having the same Atk and 1 less Spd than a buffed Olwen if both are +Atk.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Blinding Blade: 16 MT - Grants +6 Def/Res when this unit is attacked.
  • Refinement: +3 HP, Unit can counterattack regardless of distance to attacker.

I'm personally against giving weapons Distant Counter after they have already been released because it shits on players that previously gave up a Hector to pass over Distant Counter.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Fir's Katana: MT - 16 Grants Res+3, Accelerates Special Trigger -1
  • Refinement: If unit's HP > 50% and foe uses staff, magic or dragonstone, unit makes followup attack and foe cannot.

You've literally given this weapon ten third-tier skills: Resistance +3, Killer weapon, R Tomebreaker 3, B Tomebreaker 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Staffbreaker 3, R Breathbreaker 3, B Breathbreaker 3, G Breathbreaker 3, and C Breathbreaker 3, two of which are illegal for her unit type. Even if you collapse colors (in a similar way as Urvan and Urdhr), that's still five skills.

I'm also personally of the opinion that no skill in the game should ever give a Weaponbreaker effect against a color a unit is naturally weak against and that no skill should give a Weaponbreaker effect against multiple colors at the same time without more severe limitations.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Reinfleche: MT - 14 - If foe's Def > unit's Def +3, unit is granted +10 ATK during combat.
  • Refinement: Unit can counterattack regardless of distance to attacker.

Reinfleche's refinement is weird and probably too strong. I also am not a fan of skills that encourage a unit to dump a stat. Personally, I'd pick something that builds off of her Spd stat, such as, "Grants +10 damage when performing a follow-up attack," or lowering the Spd threshold to perform a follow-up attack (or both).

Same argument on the refinement as with Binding Blade. Save that for the Double Bow.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Slim Lance: MT - 16 - Grants +3 Res, if unit's Res > foe's Res +1, grants special cooldown charge +1.
  • Refinement: Prevents follow-up attacks in combat from unit and foes if unit's HP ≥ 50%.

I'd still prefer to use Berkut's Lance+.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Forblaze: MT - 14 - Effective damage vs Infantry and Fliers.
  • Refinement: If unit has AoE Special equipped, Accelerates Special Trigger -1 and +30% to damage upon activation.

The base effect is far too powerful. Poison Dagger's effect alone was considered too powerful to give a weapon with 5 Mt a refinement, and now you're giving it to a unit with 37 base Atk and a weapon with 14 Mt.

The refinement effect is too weak. While there is no weapon or skill Lilina has access to with the effect, +30% damage on activation of a before-combat Special skill requires you to be dealing 34 damage before the boost to match Wo Dao's damage boost.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Devil Axe: MT - 16 - Accelerates special trigger -1, if unit initiates combat, grants ATK +4 and special cooldown +1. unit loses 5 health after combat.
  • Refinement: For every 5 HP lost, unit is granted an additional +3 to ATK during combat. Unit loses an additional 5 HP after combat.

Bartre does not want to be initiating combat with his 25 Spd without a means to guarantee a follow-up attack, and the recoil means he is effectively forced to run Brash Assault + Desperation. This also means he has pretty terrible first-round performance because he cannot run a Weaponbreaker or Quick Riposte.

I'd personally make Devil Axe have Fury 3 as its base effect and Fury 3 as its refinement effect.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Ronin's Blade: MT - 16 - If attacked, unit is granted +4 ATK/SPD during combat.
  • Refinement: During combat, if unit attacked first, followup occurs immediately after unit's attack. (Vantage included)

This effect is far too punishing when you fail to kill him in a single round of combat and is the sort of thing that reinforces and perpetuates the current one-round-kill meta.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Justice Axe: MT - 16 Gives Atk+20% if weapon-triangle advantage, Atk-20% if disadvantage.
  • Refinement: If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by unit's weapon is negated.

The refinement is too weak. Pretty much every red unit will demolish him anyways, making it completely pointless. I'd rather go for one of the standard refinements that would boost his effectiveness against blue and green units.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, Zeo said:
  • Regal Blade: MT - 16 - If foe's HP is 100% when combat starts, unit receives Atk/Spd+2 during combat.
  • Refinement: If foe's HP is 100% when combat starts, unit receives Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 during combat. If foe uses sword, unit makes a guaranteed followup attack and foe cannot.

The upgrade to the base effect is too strong. Blessed Zofia gets this stat boost because it's only active for the first round of combat and requires either the B slot or a teammate to extend its effect. Sealed Falchion gets this stat boost because it's not active for the first round of combat. The proposed effect is active for all of your opponents' first rounds of combat, which is too often (effectively "all the time" in the current meta) to warrant such a powerful boost. At best, I'd give it +3 Atk and +3 Spd to match Gleipnir and Ivaldi because +4 to both stats is effectively the same as having both Swift Sparrow 2 and Sturdy Stance 2.

I'm not sure what to make of the refinement. On the one hand, Swordbreaker EX is a very good skill. On the other hand, I feel it's too specific of a skill to be generally practical, and that one of the standard refinements would end up being better.

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52 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Even Res tanks will get messed up from the "Blazing" versions of the AoE skills. Trust me, I used AoE skills on all of my units before I had the resources to start giving Aether and Galeforce. The AoE hit ignores all skills and the WTA, so with 0 merges, +Atk Lilina has 54 Atk against +Res Clair with Res refinement on a weapon has 40 Res. 1.5 x 54 = 81 Atk - 40 Res = 41 damage from the AoE hit, then the next hit will be enough to finish Clair's 1 remaining HP unless she is running Berkut's Lance.

edit - oops I forgot about the effective against Dragons and Flyers. With that, I am not sure there is a single unit who could survive a "Blazing ______"  AoE special. Only blue, Infantry, Armors, or Horses with high Res and TA3 could survive her normal follow up hit. In which case she could run Cancel Afinity 3, lol.

Double post because the forum won't let me edit.

Blazing Special skills apply the 1.5× multiplier after subtracting the opponent's Def or Res, not before. In your example, Lilina would only hit Clair for 21 damage before the additional 30% damage.

To the best of my knowledge, effective damage is also not applied. I haven't personally tested it, but I'd assume that's the case based on the fact that weapon triangle modifiers are also not applied.

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9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Double post because the forum won't let me edit.

Blazing Special skills apply the 1.5× multiplier after subtracting the opponent's Def or Res, not before. In your example, Lilina would only hit Clair for 21 damage before the additional 30% damage.

To the best of my knowledge, effective damage is also not applied. I haven't personally tested it, but I'd assume that's the case based on the fact that weapon triangle modifiers are also not applied.

Ah right, I thought it seemed too strong while I was typing that. But yeah AoE skills are just stat - stat. Nothing else is factored in.

@Zeo - still it takes among the highest Res possible just to lower the damage to 21. With Atk Tactics buffs she can still do 30 damage to a 40 Res unit with the AoE hit. Throw on Atk +3 skill and Seal and she can do 39 damage to a 40 Res unit.

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@Ice Dragon I don't mean to annoy you, but could you also give me feedback please? I could use constructive criticism.

Clarisse

  • Vritra (14 Mt)- Effective against flying units. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1).
  • RefinementUnit and enemies cannot use counterattacks.

Hawkeye

  • Runeaxe (16 Mt): If in combat against foe using magic, unit receives 50% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-5 on foe using bow, dagger, magic, or staff within 2 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn.

Robin (M)

  • Robin's Primer (14 Mt): If in combat against colorless foe, unit receives 30% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement: If in combat against colorless foe, unit deals 30% more damage on the first attack.

Robin (F)

  • Robin's Codex (14 Mt): Effective against cavalry units.
  • Refinement: At start of turn, bonuses become penalties on all cavalry foes whose lower value of Def or Res < unit's Def through foe's next action.
Edited by silveraura25

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Merric needs a boost to his Excalibur. It's not cool forcing him to have to switch over to the Dark Side. Same with Linde's Aura.

I think these effects will help them:

Excalibur - Mt: 14 Eff: Effective against Flying Foes. 
Refinement: If unit initiates the attack, unit gains Special cooldown charge+1(if using similar skill, only highest value applied). Effective against Flying foes.
Effect Refinement: None that I can think of that's needed.

Aura - Mt: 14 Eff: Restores 5 HP to adjacent allies after any combat this unit initiates.
Refinement: After combat restores 7 HP to both unit and allies within 2 spaces. 
Effect Refinement: If unit initiates attack, foes within 2 spaces of target take 7 damage after combat. After combat restores 7 HP to both unit and adjacent allies.

Edited by Ae†her

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Askr Trio

Roy - Binding Blade needs to upgrade to a distant counter weapon.

Male Corrin - Yato to Omega Yato

Jacob - if Felicia can get a prf weapon, so can he. Give him  Jacob's tray.

Hawkeye - Give him Tomahawk just like Dorcas

Titania - Give her Urvan. It would be very fitting to her character and the importance Greil had in her life.

Nephenee - Give her Wishblade

Saizo - Give him Flame Shuriken or Saizo's Star

 

 

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8 hours ago, silveraura25 said:
  • Vritra (14 Mt)- Effective against flying units. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1).
  • RefinementUnit and enemies cannot use counterattacks.

Firesweep is a very touchy skill, and the combination of Firesweep and the Killer weapon effect means you can fire off nearly guaranteed Moonbow or Glimmer every round of combat without giving the opponent a chance to retaliate.

Personally, I think Firesweep is too powerful to give out in combination with a second skill without some kind of drawback.

 

8 hours ago, silveraura25 said:
  • Runeaxe (16 Mt): If in combat against foe using magic, unit receives 50% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-5 on foe using bow, dagger, magic, or staff within 2 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn.

I think 50% damage reduction is too much. Divine Tyrfing was the only weapon with that high of a damage reduction from the first hit, and every weapon after it with the same effect has had its damage reduction lowered to 30%.

The refinement is rather lackluster in comparison. It's only useful when Hawkeye is unable to counterattack and needs to perform the kill on the following player phase, but Hawkeye's Spd is beyond godawful, which limits his ability to actually take the kill.

 

8 hours ago, silveraura25 said:
  • Robin's Primer (14 Mt): If in combat against colorless foe, unit receives 30% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement: If in combat against colorless foe, unit deals 30% more damage on the first attack.

This is a significant downgrade from Blarraven+, assuming it doesn't give weapon triangle advantage against colorless.

With the base effect, an opponent needs to have more than 87 Atk for 30% damage reduction to be more effective than simple weapon triangle advantage, assuming no buffs or merge on Robin. Adding buffs or merges makes the comparison even worse. The fact that it only applies to the first attack makes it even more worse because of how slow Robin is.

 

8 hours ago, silveraura25 said:
  • Robin's Codex (14 Mt): Effective against cavalry units.
  • Refinement: At start of turn, bonuses become penalties on all cavalry foes whose lower value of Def or Res < unit's Def through foe's next action.

The refinement effect looks overly oppressive. All other infinite-range effects target only one opponent unless there is a tie. This forces the unit's owner to eliminate the affected unit if they want to move the effect elsewhere and gives an opponent a fair chance at counter play. With the proposed effect, you'd be hitting a fixed set of targets every turn, which is uninteresting for the unit's owner because the list of targets is always the same (the comparison is made after your previous turn's buffs expire and before your current turn's buffs activate) and gives the opponent no chance at counter play (unless Fortify Cavalry is enough to push a unit out of the targeted stat range because it will still be active and no longer Panicked when the effect activates for the next turn).

I'd have the effect target the cavalry opponent with the lowest Def or the cavalry opponent with the lowest Res.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

snip

Thanks for the feedback☺

I'll balance the weapons once I have some free time between classes today.

Would a 100% HP threshold requirement for a firesweep effect work or do I need to add something like fury on top of the threshold requirement? Though she can only use that effect once then. Perhaps a debuff on the unit or allies after combat, kinda like Fates weapons?

Edited by silveraura25

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48 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Would a 100% HP threshold requirement for a firesweep effect work or do I need to add something like fury? Though she can only use that effect once then. Perhaps a debuff on the unit or allies after combat, kinda like Fates weapons?

Because Firesweep prevents the unit from taking damage at all, a 100%-HP threshold must be accompanied by recoil damage to be at all effective as a penalty.

This would be somewhat interesting due to the fact that if the recoil damage is high enough, you can use Desperation to continue attacking without counterattack afterwards so long as the opponent dies. That said, being able to attack 4 times before the opponent has their first chance at counterattacking is probably still too strong.

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6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because Firesweep prevents the unit from taking damage at all, a 100%-HP threshold must be accompanied by recoil damage to be at all effective as a penalty.

This would be somewhat interesting due to the fact that if the recoil damage is high enough, you can use Desperation to continue attacking without counterattack afterwards so long as the opponent dies. That said, being able to attack 4 times before the opponent has their first chance at counterattacking is probably still too strong.

Thanks for the feedback ?

Edited by silveraura25

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@Ice Dragon I typed a colossal post in great detail in response to your feedback and near the very end of it I lost everything I wrote. Unfortunately for the sake of my sanity I can't retype it so I'll get to the gist of my responses. I apologize and hope I can get my point across as well without walls of text. @Hawk King I replied to you as well but I can't re-type that stuff. Just know your responses were read and your feedback was taken into account. Apologies.

Matthew: I love the idea of Sacae's Blessing, but I don't think the HP threshold for his effect is too low. With a higher threshold there are plenty of units that could simply counter him (at his 30-33 DEF even if he's using it against mages) and knock him out of the effect before he even has access to his buffs (since he has to initiate in order to trigger buffs/debuffs), he's then promptly killed on the following enemy phase and units don't necessarily have to be hard counters to him to achieve this. 

Odin: You're the first one to tell me this tome is underpowered rather than overpowered. I'm thinking but it's hard to find a middleground. Yes I meant the +6 was a Death Blow effect essentially. As he is he's essentially an infantry Olwen to some degree with easier access to merges and being infantry he can receive Infantry Pulse and things like that. I"m not really sure where to go with him I'm so open to suggestions.

Roy: Had a really nice response to this but I can't bring myself to type it again. He (and Zephiel) are just about the only characters deserving of a DC refinement. EP Performance is implied just from their weapons and base kit (and of course they naturally had DC in their native games). It would step on some toes but it's in a similar vein to releasing a new prf for a unit after some people inherited Limited Seasonal weapons on them. Somewhat unavoidable but going to be Devil's Advocate and say it's worth it to step on a few toes. If anything anyone running DC on Roy was probably using Wo Dao+ or Slaying Edge+ and likely he'll still be superior as a unit.

Fir: I'd read earlier feed back that let me know I was basically breaking the games rules beforehand. I've since been thinking about a Warding Blow|Breath effect (for both phases) that gives +4 RES and +1 cooldown when facing Staff/Magic/Dragons. It would give her the ability to proc Iceberg or Glacies in a single round of combat against these foes as well as +7 RES to be something of a "Berkut's Sword+". I thought about the effect being DC against these foes but considering it would only really apply to tomes, it didn't really seem worth it.

Rebecca: It's in a weird spot. I think the idea of having to think and balance having enough DEF to make use of CC but keeping it low enough to proc the ATK. It just seemed like it suited her to some due to her occupation as a hunter and that she may have had to get up close with her prey on one occasion or another. I agree on Double Bow having CC as well though when Shinon whenever he comes along (or Rolf, but why?) Still I agree with you that it may not be the best thing for her so I'll probably revisit this at some point.

Lillina: Agreed. Its better and more authentic to change the effective damage to only effect Dragons and Fliers. Most of these units have sky high RES so it balances itself out somewhat and she can keep her weapon's MT. As for the AoE effect Hilda suggested it targeting the weaker stat of every foe's DEF/RES but I think that's a bit overkill so the +10 to damage on activation is probably the best and simplest option. That and changing the killer effect to a simple +1 to cooldown in combat if she's running an AoE skill. That means either needs to double, attack an opponent that can counter or bait an enemy she can counter (without dying) in order to proc the skill on turn 2. Otherwise she has to see 2 turns of combat in order to proc on turn 3 vs the killer effect where she has to see a minimum of 2-3 rounds of combat and by that point most of the enemy team is probably already did if this is arena.

Florina: Berkut's Lance+ doesn't have Spirit Blade 3 built into it however. At +RES Florina is hitting 40 RES with the weapon and with dual QR's the opponent can't double but she can and if her RES is higher she's guaranteed to proc Iceberg on her 2nd hit. I'll admit Berkut's Lance+ is better for general magic tanking though. 

Bartre: I thought of Fury 6, it just seemed like an unbelievably lazy idea so I was against it from the start. Plus it would take originality away from Eldigan's refine and I don't like that. The weapon does need a revamp though. I was thinking the base effect could take advantage of Bartre's high HP pool be something like a 30% increase for fall HP related specials (So 2 turn Reprisal for 60% or 3 turn Vengance for 80%). This would still reward chopping away at his HP and have an extra recoil, just in a more reasonable way. For the refinement I already have an idea, I just wonder if it's a bit too good. It would give him Ayra level player phase potential. You'll see what I mean soon enough.

Lon'Qu: I agree, so I had two ideas for a solution.

  1. Get rid of the Desperation effect and make it only activate with Vantage (Vantage Desperation, essentially). This way he can't run the combo unless a Desperation Seal is released and he's stuck plugging up his A, B and Seal slots in order to get the effect which forces him to rely on his base stats when initiating, only having any sort of increase to his middling ATK during enemy phase when the +4 ATK/SPD from his weapon kicks in. In the mean time he has to run a different B-Skill and only gets Super Vantage. It would give him a unique feature however. As the only unit with backwards Desperation.
  2. Replace his +4/4 boost when attacked with Vantage on his weapon's base skill. Now he can still run the combo with Desperation in his B slot but he's not getting the boost to his stats if he runs DC and the most he's getting is 35 ATK unbuffed (+ATK/+3 Seal) and if he doesn't run DC, he can simply be dispatched with 2 range.

Arthur: The initial Idea was CA3 on his weapon against reds, but a whopping 40% over greens and a flat 0% over reds just seemed ridiculous even with his stats. I'm open to suggestions here as well.

Lloyd: See, I figured someone would say this and it's actually not too strong if you take into account the actual unit the weapon is on. Celica and Chrom both have access to their weapon's boosts in a bit more limited of a fashion, but the difference is that these units can be tailored in such a way to take better advantage of their weapons due to natures. A +SPD F!Celica or +ATK E!Chrom. With his stats locked in, Lloyd has a ceiling on his stats and can't take full advantage of the weapon. That and lack of access to merges hurts him further (I think you can have +4-+5 at this point?). Sure this can be patched with say, Fury or Life and Death, but it's also to be taken into account his RES and popular option to counter mages which is what he's mostly known for. So he wants DC which means he's not getting any bonuses. The most I'd say the stats could be reduced is a +3 to all stats but then he becomes even worse and he's not particularly amazing with the boost to begin with. Merely on par with the current standard of newly released swords.

As for Swordbreaker EX, I considered putting an HP requirement on it actually. I think it suits him. I've always seen Lloyd as something of a duelist. He will never have the SPD to deal with other sword units so I think it's a perfect compliment or cherry on top to whatever you choose to run in his B-Slot. As for practicality, swords are literally everywhere in this game. I wouldn't take an extra 2-3 SPD instead as that probably still wouldn't be enough to double half the sword units that he either can't double or double him instead.

 

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Double Post and tagging @eclipse for help. My previous post glitched and uploaded a picture of my screen and added to the post and it won't let me edit and remove it. If you could help I'd appreciate it.

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@Ice Dragon What about instead of a HP threshold + post battle damage effect alongside the killer firesweep effect, I'd give the killer firesweep bow a post battle panic status on unit and allies within 2 spaces? Or should I make the panic effect at the start of the player's turn?

Edited by silveraura25

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8 hours ago, Zeo said:

Lillina: Agreed. Its better and more authentic to change the effective damage to only effect Dragons and Fliers

One thing I noticed, actually, after looking Forblaze up: it deals effective damage to dragons and Wyvern-riding units (as opposed to Fliers as a whole). This is the same as Awakening’s Falchion, and that only got breath effectiveness in Heroes.

Not that I necessarily think it’s a bad idea to give it Flier effectiveness, but if the time were to be implemented with effective damage, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was breath only.

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All Binding Blades legendary weapons deal effective damage against wyverns and dragons though.

We already know the effect was dropped for both Durandal & Armads so I personally don't expect it on Forblaze either (or any of the other legendary weapons).  

 

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1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

All Binding Blades legendary weapons deal effective damage against wyverns and dragons though.

We already know the effect was dropped for both Durandal & Armads so I personally don't expect it on Forblaze either (or any of the other legendary weapons).  

 

Unless they give Eliwood the Hector, Ephraim and Chrom treatment.

@Ice Dragon I've reworked the weapon effects, but I'm unsure of male Robin's weapon since I want to retain his raventome build, but Lyon's Naglfar proves that colorless advantage is considered too good of a skill in IS's opinion though I'm uncertain of this opinion.

Clarisse

  • Vritra (14 Mt)- Effective against flying units. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1).
  • RefinementUnit and enemies cannot use counterattacks. At start of turn, bonuses become penalties on unit and allies within 2 spaces through their next action.

Hawkeye

  • Runeaxe (16 Mt): If in combat against foe using magic, unit receives 30% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement:  If foe's Def + Res < unit's Def + Res, foe cannot perform follow-up attack.

Robin (M)

  • Robin's Primer (14 Mt): If foe initiates combat, grants weapon-triangle advantage against colorless foes.
  • Refinement: Unit can perform counterattacks regardless of foe's skills. If unit's HP ≥ 80% in combat against a staff user, unit makes a follow-up attack and foe cannot.

Robin (F)

  • Robin's Codex (14 Mt): Effective against cavalry units.
  • Refinement: At start of turn, if unit's HP ≥ 50%, bonuses become penalties on foe on the enemy team with the lowest Def through its next action

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Reworking Some Old Ideas And A Couple Of New Ones.

Navarre

  • Navarre's Blades (16 Mt): Accelerates special trigger -1. Unit deals +10 damage when special triggers.
  • Refinement: Unit gets +2 Atk/Spd when in combat if enemy has 100% HP.

Oboro

  • Oboro's Spear (16 Mt): Grants +3 Atk. Enemies within two spaces of unit suffer Atk -5 at the start of turn.
  • Refinement: Unit gets +4 Def/Res when attacked.

Jakob

  • Jakob's Tray (14 Mt): Unit gets +6 Def when attacked. Target and enemies within two spaces of target suffer Def/Res -7 after combat.
  • Refinement: If in combat against foe using bow/dagger, unit receives 30% less damage from the first attack.

Saizo

  • Flame Shuriken (14 Mt): Targets the lower of the target's Def/Res. Target and enemies within two spaces of target suffer Def/Res -7 after combat.
  • Refinement: After combat, allies within two spaces gain Atk +4 for one turn.

Olwen

  • Dire Thunder (9 Mt.): Grants Atk +2, Inflicts Spd -2. Unit automatically makes a follow-up attack when initiating combat. 
  • Refinement: After combat, allies within two spaces gain Spd +4 for one turn.

Clive

  • Clive's Lance (16 Mt): Grants Atk/Def +2. When in combat with an enemy with 100% HP, unit deals +5 damage and takes -5 damage.
  • Refinement: Grants effectiveness against armored units.

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Big update to my post. First off, the groups will be separated into Generations. With my first 12 (one newly added) characters as "Gen 1"

  1. Roy: Slight nerf to weapon's base skill.
  2. Fir: Overhaul on refinement.
  3. Rebecca: Overhaul on refinement.
  4. Florina: Buff on refinement.
  5. Lillina: nerf to base effect. Buff to refinement.
  6. Bartre: Complete overhaul
  7. Lon'Qu: Nerf to refinement.
  8. Arthur: Colossal buff to refinement.
  9. Lloyd: Slight nerf to base effect after refinement.
  10. Added Ursula.

Next, added Gen 2 with these units: Icon Portrait Barst.pngIcon Portrait Selena.pngIcon Portrait Hinata.pngIcon Portrait Oboro.pngIcon Portrait Hector.pngIcon Portrait Serra.pngIcon Portrait Laslow.pngIcon Portrait Beruka.pngIcon Portrait Camilla.pngIcon Portrait Raigh.pngIcon Portrait Tailtiu.pngIcon Portrait Draug.png

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to edit my post for some reason. I don't know, I think this is a glitch with the forum or something but I haven't been able to edit even moderately sized posts recently for one reason or another. So I'm going to post again in spoilers.

Well. Guess I'll do this too.

Gen 1Icon Portrait Matthew.pngIcon Portrait Odin.pngIcon Portrait Roy.pngIcon Portrait Fir.png Icon Portrait Rebecca.png Icon Portrait Florina.pngIcon Portrait Lilina.pngIcon Portrait Bartre.pngIcon Portrait Lon'qu.pngIcon Portrait Arthur.pngIcon Portrait Lloyd.pngIcon Portrait Ursula.png

Spoiler

 

MatthewIcon Portrait Matthew.png

  • Leila's Keepsake: MT - 14 - After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Def-6 on foe and units within 2 spaces through their next actions. Grants unit and allies with in 2 spaces Atk/Def+6 for 1 turn.
  • Refinement: If unit's HP > 25% Foe's damage is calculated using the higher of unit's Def or Res.

OdinIcon Portrait Odin.png

  • Odin's Grimoire: MT - 14 - During combat, if unit attacked, unit is granted +6 ATK.
  • Refinement: If unit initiates attack, unit attacks consecutively. (Brave Weapon effect)

Roy Icon Portrait Roy.png

  • Blinding Blade: MT - 16 - Grants +4 Def/Res when this unit is attacked.
  • Refinement: +3 HP, Unit can counterattack regardless of distance to attacker.

FirIcon Portrait Fir.png

  • Fir's Katana: MT - 16 Grants Res+3, Accelerates Special Trigger -1
  • Refinement: If foe uses staff, magic or dragonstone , unit is granted +4 RES during combat. Also grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack.

Rebecca Icon Portrait Rebecca.png

  • Reinfleche: MT - 14 - If foe's Def > unit's Def +3, unit is granted +7 ATK during combat.
  • Refinement: If foe's Def > unit's Def +3, unit is granted an additional attack during combat. (MAX of 3 attacks per combat).

Florina Icon Portrait Florina.png

  • Slim Lance: MT - 16 - Grants +3 Res, if unit's Res > foe's Res +1, grants special cooldown charge +1.
  • Refinement: Prevents follow-up attacks in combat from foes if unit's HP ≥ 50%.

Lillina Icon Portrait Lilina.png

  • Forblaze: MT - 14 - Effective damage vs Dragons and Fliers.
  • Refinement: If unit has AoE Special equipped, Grants +10 damage when special triggers. Unit is also granted +1 cooldown per attack.

Bartre Icon Portrait Bartre.png

  • Devil Axe: MT - 16 - If unit has HP based special equipped, damage is calculated using an additional 30% of damage suffered. Unit loses 6 HP after combat.
  • Refinement: If unit's HP ≥ 50% and unit initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. Grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack. (Does not stack.)

Lon'QuIcon Portrait Lon'qu.png

  • Ronin's Blade: MT - 16 - If attacked, unit is granted +4 ATK/SPD during combat.
  • Refinement: During combat, if unit attacked first using Vantage, followup occurs immediately after unit's attack. 

Arthur Icon Portrait Arthur.png

  • Justice Axe: MT - 16 Gives Atk+20% if weapon-triangle advantage, Atk-20% if disadvantage.
  • Refinement: If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by unit's weapon is reversed.

Lloyd Icon Portrait Lloyd.png

  • Regal Blade: MT - 16 - If foe's HP is 100% when combat starts, unit receives Atk/Spd+2 during combat.
  • Refinement: If foe's HP is 100% when combat starts, unit receives Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 during combat. If foe uses sword, unit makes a guaranteed followup attack and foe cannot.

Ursula Icon Portrait Ursula.png

  • Bolting: MT - 16 - ATK +3, SPD -3
  • Refinement: Unit and foes cannot counterattack.

Gen 2 *NEW*Icon Portrait Barst.pngIcon Portrait Selena.pngIcon Portrait Hinata.pngIcon Portrait Oboro.pngIcon Portrait Hector.pngIcon Portrait Serra.pngIcon Portrait Laslow.pngIcon Portrait Beruka.pngIcon Portrait Camilla.pngIcon Portrait Raigh.pngIcon Portrait Tailtiu.pngIcon Portrait Draug.png

Spoiler

Barst Icon Portrait Barst.png

  • Hero's Axe: MT - 11 - SPD -3, Attack twice when initiating combat.
  • Refinement: HP +3, If unit's HP > 90% at start of turn, unit can move 1 extra space.

Selena Icon Portrait Selena.png

  • Loyalist Blade: MT - 16 - Spd+3, During combat, If foe's ATK > unit's ATK +5, unit is granted +5 ATK and foe suffers -5 ATK.
  • Refinement: During combat, for every ally within 2 spaces, unit is granted +3 Def/Res.

Hinata Icon Portrait Hinata.png

  • Vengeful Blade: MT - 16 - HP + 5, if, Unit automatically makes a follow-up attack if attacked at HP > 80%.
  • RefinementUnit automatically makes a follow-up attack if attacked at HP ≥ 70%. If unit's special triggers based on a Def/Res percentage reduction, an additional 20% reduction is added to the value.

Oboro Icon Portrait Oboro.png 

  • Oboro's Spear: MT -16 - Def+3, If foe uses sword, lance, axe, or dragonstone, neutralizes foe's bonuses (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) during combat.
  • Refinement: If unit's HP is ≥ 50% at start of combat, enemy is inflicted with Special cooldown charge -1. (If using other similar skill, only highest value applied.)

Hector Icon Portrait Hector.png

  • Armads: MT - 16 - Unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack when attacked at HP ≥ 80%.
  • Refinement: HP +3, If unit's HP ≥ 70% and foe initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.
    Grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack. (Does not stack.)

Serra Icon Portrait Serra.png

  • Hammerine: MT - 14 - At start of each turn, Grants ATK/SPD +4 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn. Grants Allies within 2 spaces ATK+3 During combat. 
  • Refinement: Wrathful/Dazzling

LaslowIcon Portrait Laslow.png

  • Dancing Blade: MT - 16 - If foe uses sword, lance or axe, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
  • Refinement: If unit kills an enemy, the nearest ally will be refreshed. (once per turn.)

Camilla Icon Portrait Camilla.png

  • Camilla's Axe: MT - 16 - If unit's HP > 50%, enables all allies to warp adjacent to unit. Every turn, foe with the highest HP suffers 7 damage.
  • Refinement: If unit initiates combat, foe cannot make a followup attack.

BerukaIcon Portrait Beruka.png 

  • Golem Axe: MT - 16 - Def +3Grants +6 Def if this unit is attacked.
  • Refinement: HP +3, Grants this unit protection from arrows.

RaighIcon Portrait Raigh.png 

  • Apocalypse: MT - 14 - Res +3If unit's special triggers based on unit's attack, special cooldown -2 at start of turn 1.
  • Refinement: At start of turn 3, if Unit's HP = 100%, all enemy units with 3 or lower Res than unit suffer -20 damage and -5 to all stats. 

TailtiuIcon Portrait Tailtiu.png

  • Mjolnir: MT - 14 - Atk +3Accelerates Special Trigger -1
  • Refinement: Grants +10 damage when special triggers.

DraugIcon Portrait Draug.png

  • Titan Blade: MT - 16 - During combat, if foe initiates, unit receives 50% less damage from the first attack.
  • Refinement: If unit's Special triggers based on a foe's attack, Special cooldown count-2 at start of turn 1.
    Unit takes 10 less damage when Special triggers.

Gen 3 (Coming Soon) - Icon Portrait Henry.pngIcon Portrait Jagen.pngIcon Portrait Seth.pngIcon Portrait Stahl.pngIcon Portrait Sully.pngIcon Portrait Gaius.pngIcon Portrait Ogma.pngIcon Portrait Saizo.png ? ? ? ?

 @Ice Dragon @XRay @Astellius @LordFrigid @Hawk King @mcsilas @Poimagic @Rafiel's Aria @mampfoid @Johann @eclipse @Fei Mao

@silveraura25

Check em out again.

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1 hour ago, The Lord Of Gems said:

Olwen

  • Dire Thunder (9 Mt.): Grants Atk +2, Inflicts Spd -2. Unit automatically makes a follow-up attack when initiating combat. 
  • Refinement: After combat, allies within two spaces gain Spd +4 for one turn.

Not that I actively think Olwen doesn't need a refinement, but I'd like to mention that as far as I'm aware, Reinhardt's and Olwen's Dire Thunders are the same thing, like Chrom and Lucina's Falchions, so he'd get the same boost. Maybe give her something alluding to the Holy Sword as a new weapon so he doesn't get a buff he doesn't need?

@Zeo Ursula seems broken. That's a 19 might, 2 range firesweep weapon. With L&D, the speed seal, and a hone, she's looking at 59 attack and 43 speed. That's +SPD firesweep Soleil offense with +2 effective range and hitting the generally lower defensive stat. Yeah, she needs a buff to hit it, but we've all seen how easy those buffs are to come by. Unless she's panicked or something, she'd tear up a team in an instant with no fear of repercussion. If you're going to do bolting, I'd say drop the might to 11 and possibly give -5 speed or disable follow-ups altogether. Need to read Gen 2 yet, but that jumped out at me from gen 1. It also breaks the convention of 14 mgt ranged personal weapons.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Not that I actively think Olwen doesn't need a refinement, but I'd like to mention that as far as I'm aware, Reinhardt's and Olwen's Dire Thunders are the same thing, like Chrom and Lucina's Falchions, so he'd get the same boost. Maybe give her something alluding to the Holy Sword as a new weapon so he doesn't get a buff he doesn't need?

@Zeo Ursula seems broken. That's a 19 might, 2 range firesweep weapon. With L&D, the speed seal, and a hone, she's looking at 59 attack and 43 speed. That's +SPD firesweep Soleil offense with +2 effective range and hitting the generally lower defensive stat. Yeah, she needs a buff to hit it, but we've all seen how easy those buffs are to come by. Unless she's panicked or something, she'd tear up a team in an instant with no fear of repercussion. If you're going to do bolting, I'd say drop the might to 11 and possibly give -5 speed or disable follow-ups altogether. Need to read Gen 2 yet, but that jumped out at me from gen 1. It also breaks the convention of 14 mit ranged personal weapons.

The 16 MT was a typo that I noticed too late and can't edit. Was meant to be 12 :/

also @Hilda I forgot to tag you so check it out.

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44 minutes ago, Zeo said:

The 16 MT was a typo that I noticed too late and can't edit. Was meant to be 12 :/

also @Hilda I forgot to tag you so check it out.

Ah, makes sense. Still that seems a bit high. That's +SPD Cordy offense with the hone. I'm sort of in agreement with Ice Dragon on firesweeps. The benefits drastically outweigh the drawbacks, and they need to be a balanced carefully. True, they're sitting ducks on PP, but the issue is approaching them, especially when they have massive range like Lyn or hypothetical Ursula since only you get hurt by baiting them. I feel like IS overestimated how much of a drawback no EP would be when they designed them, and would probably make them more like other sweep skills if they were to redo them.

As for gen 2, I've read some, but not all so here are my thoughts if you're interested.

Barst: Minor but Huntsman's or Woods man's Axe might be more appropriate to him and the effect.

Selena: Seems excessive. It's essentially 4 effects in one weapon. I'd say split the base secondary effect into the base and refinement and maybe drop the threshold. Also, her bulk was never the issue so the def/res boost seems superfluous if you're trying to fix her weak point. If you're trying to boost her strengths, then just use that and get rid of the initial effect.

Hinata: I like it and it actually seems quite tame. Maybe you could give it a killer effect to play into the damage reduction specials? Not sure that's necessary though.

Oboro: I like it.

Hector: Not sure he needs the VF effect, or even really a buff at all. With that, he could effectively run VF/Vantage or VF/WF, just with a higher HP threshold.

Serra: Seems fine enough. Maybe a bit too many buffs (+4 vs double drivers +3), but I dont have a super strong opinion.

Laslow: The refinery effect seems outright broken. True his speed isn't stellar, but between buffs, breakers, and the initial effect, it wouldn't be hard for him to guarantee the effect activates. If you really want the effect, maybe make it one adjacent ally.

I'll try to do the rest in a bit of you'd like.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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@Zeo

I can't do a full review right now (your list is huge, I have lots of gripes, and I'm at work), so I'll just start with the nitpicks for Gen 1:

  • Odin's skill description is still wrong. It should be "if unit initiates combat" instead of "if unit attacked". It's also still too weak.
  • Roy's Binding Blade is still spelled wrong.
  • Why does Roy get +3 HP on his refine and not anyone else? Is that in addition to the standard +3 HP for unique refines?
  • Slim Lance is still worse than Berkut's Lance+ [Res] for Florina.
  • Lilina's name is spelled wrong.
  • I didn't mention it before, but I'm opposed to giving Elibe's legendary weapons effective damage due to the fact that none of the existing ones have it.
  • Bold Fighter 2 is too strong of a skill to include on a weapon. It also actively conflicts with Devil Axe's base skill.
  • I'm not fond of the fact that Ronin Blade's effect specifically requires another skill to work at all. That's like the opposite of encouraging creative builds.
  • Same argument as before for Regal Blade's base effect. It's literally exactly equivalent to Fury 3 without the recoil.
  • Bolting's base effect should be Firesweep and a -5 Spd penalty. I don't think it should be allowed to be refined.

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@Zeo I'll write a proper review after I get home from a relatives birthday dinner. Though all I can say now is that some effects are too strong/weak, improper effect explanation (not that that matters) or don't fit because of lore. +3 HP effect is odd...

Edited by silveraura25

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7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

@Zeo

I can't do a full review right now (your list is huge, I have lots of gripes, and I'm at work), so I'll just start with the nitpicks for Gen 1:

  • Odin's skill description is still wrong. It should be "if unit initiates combat" instead of "if unit attacked". It's also still too weak.
  • Roy's Binding Blade is still spelled wrong.
  • Why does Roy get +3 HP on his refine and not anyone else? Is that in addition to the standard +3 HP for unique refines?
  • Slim Lance is still worse than Berkut's Lance+ [Res] for Florina.
  • Lilina's name is spelled wrong.
  • I didn't mention it before, but I'm opposed to giving Elibe's legendary weapons effective damage due to the fact that none of the existing ones have it.
  • Bold Fighter 2 is too strong of a skill to include on a weapon. It also actively conflicts with Devil Axe's base skill.
  • I'm not fond of the fact that Ronin Blade's effect specifically requires another skill to work at all. That's like the opposite of encouraging creative builds.
  • Same argument as before for Regal Blade's base effect. It's literally exactly equivalent to Fury 3 without the recoil.
  • Bolting's base effect should be Firesweep and a -5 Spd penalty. I don't think it should be allowed to be refined.

This is yet another instance where I noticed after the fact. I fixed the Odin description that but I guess I undid it somehow before posting and can't edit my post. Is that a glitch on the forum right now or something? Because I can rarely edit any of my posts if they're longer than a paragraph for... no real explained reason. This is really annoying because I can't fix anything and especially after getting some sleep. My head is on a bit more straight and there are a couple of things I'd like to change and nerf  (and typos to fix) and I can't change anything. Everyone is about to criticize these effects raw and there's nothing I can do to edit the posts. Might post this in the help section.

For the HP effect, it seemed like there were some refinements that didn't give the HP +3 effect, so I was just specifying that the effect was being given on certain weapons. If I'm wrong and that's actually the general standard for Dew refinements, this is yet another error I'm unable to fix. I'll respond to the relevant things however.

  • I would really love a suggestion on a weapon to give Odin that's effectively superior to a 20 MT Brave tome with no drawbacks that doesn't break him.
  • I don't think because no Elibe weapons are authentic to their base games means that no weapons should be. Lilina's weapon having effective damage in this case isn't particularly gamebreaking (anymore) so I wouldn't change the effect based on that alone. It's clearly been proved that patterns don't mean all that much in this game in the scheme of things.
  • I'd love a comparison of Berkut's Lance+ to Slim Lance. After the update, Florina only needs one QR to double which is pretty massive. I'd love to know how Berkut's Lance+ is still superior (offensively at least.)
  • Bold Fighter 2 is effectively only going to activate once against an enemy that can counter, after that it's done. However, I wouldn't be against an 80-90% or higher condition for it. All he needs is to be knocked into a low enough HP range to activate a deadly Vengance/Reprisal proc. The idea behind the weapon is to get a guaranteed double for the first or second round of combat, trigger the recoil and blow up the next enemy with an enhanced HP based special on the following turn.
  • The other option for Ronin's Blade would be to merely include Vantage in it's base effect and remove the boost to stats. But the entire design of the weapon is for him to take advantage of Vantage, his base skill. It's not as if the player doesn't have the option to pursue other (albeit inferior) builds if they choose.
  • Same counter for Regal Blade's effect. It's limited to depending on the opponent and it's on a unit with a strict ceiling to his stats.
  • I wouldn't be against removing the refinement and just making Bolting the standard weapon. The -5 Spd penalty is fine, but I would keep the +3 to Atk and 11 MT.
8 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Ah, makes sense. Still that seems a bit high. That's +SPD Cordy offense with the hone. I'm sort of in agreement with Ice Dragon on firesweeps. The benefits drastically outweigh the drawbacks, and they need to be a balanced carefully. True, they're sitting ducks on PP, but the issue is approaching them, especially when they have massive range like Lyn or hypothetical Ursula since only you get hurt by baiting them. I feel like IS overestimated how much of a drawback no EP would be when they designed them, and would probably make them more like other sweep skills if they were to redo them.

As for gen 2, I've read some, but not all so here are my thoughts if you're interested.

  • Barst: Minor but Huntsman's or Woods man's Axe might be more appropriate to him and the effect.
  • Selena: Seems excessive. It's essentially 4 effects in one weapon. I'd say split the base secondary effect into the base and refinement and maybe drop the threshold. Also, her bulk was never the issue so the def/res boost seems superfluous if you're trying to fix her weak point. If you're trying to boost her strengths, then just use that and get rid of the initial effect.
  • Hinata: I like it and it actually seems quite tame. Maybe you could give it a killer effect to play into the damage reduction specials? Not sure that's necessary though.
  • Oboro: I like it.
  • Hector: Not sure he needs the VF effect, or even really a buff at all. With that, he could effectively run VF/Vantage or VF/WF, just with a higher HP threshold.
  • Serra: Seems fine enough. Maybe a bit too many buffs (+4 vs double drivers +3), but I dont have a super strong opinion.
  • Laslow: The refinery effect seems outright broken. True his speed isn't stellar, but between buffs, breakers, and the initial effect, it wouldn't be hard for him to guarantee the effect activates. If you really want the effect, maybe make it one adjacent ally.

I'll try to do the rest in a bit of you'd like.

  • Barst: Agreeable enough, wish I could edit..
  • Selena: The Spd +3 is superflous, I would have no qualms about removing that. However I think the other effects are perfect for her. The first half of the base effect gives her a slight boost to her weakest area: offense while propping up her already top notch mixed bulk. Enhanced further if she's against a stronger foe with 3 allies that's effectively +14 DEF/RES. This weapon is less about making her a standard offensive nuke, more about enhancing an area she already excels in to great heights.
  • Hector: Berserk Armads could simply be a 150 Dew refine, but such an esteemed weapon only comes from a seasonal unit and I doubt they would be so generous as to give it to normal Hector. A slightly nerfed Vengeful Fighter with a higher HP requirement seems tame, while also bumping Hector up a bit (not that he needs it necessarily, I admit.)
  • Serra: It's a legendary staff so 2 effects is par for the course, but also the Hone ATK/SPD is a visible buff and you have to keep in mind that this staff does literally nothing to the enemy when she attacks. She merely exchanges her offensive powers (debuffing/etc) for a full support set that would be exclusive to her.
  • Laslow: I would disagree, as you said his Spd is horrendus and the ability is unreliable unless you're personally using Laslow. But I would agree maybe it's too easy to manipulate it into refereshing dancers and completely wiping out teams. So perhaps a random ally should be targeted instead for the dance per my original idea.

Not going to list a bunch, but these are key things I would change if I could edit my post.

Ursula Icon Portrait Ursula.png

  • Bolting: MT - 11 - ATK +3, SPD -5, Unit and foes cannot counterattack.
  • Change: Fixed MT to originally desired value. Raised SPD nerf by 2, removed refinement.

RaighIcon Portrait Raigh.png 

  • Apocalypse: MT - 14 - Res +3If unit's special triggers based on unit's attack, special cooldown -2 at start of turn 1.
  • Refinement: At start of turn 3, if Unit's HP = 100%, all enemy units with 3 or lower Res than unit suffer -10 damage and -6 to all stats. 
  • Change: 10 Point reduction to damage. 1 point increase to debuff.

Selena Icon Portrait Selena.png

  • Loyalist Blade: MT - 16 - Spd+3, During combat, If foe's ATK > unit's ATK +5, unit is granted +5 ATK and foe suffers -5 ATK.
  • Refinement: During combat, for every ally within 2 spaces, unit is granted +3 Def/Res.
  • Change: Spd +3 removed.

Camilla Icon Portrait Camilla.png

  • Camilla's Axe: MT - 16 - If unit's HP < 50%, enables all allies to warp adjacent to unit. 
  • Refinement: If unit initiates combat, foe cannot make a followup attack.
  • Change: Corrected an error. Reverse WoM3 effect applies to Camilla under 50%, not over 50% where essentially her entire team can teleport at will. Removed -7 HP recoil effect on enemies.

Bartre Icon Portrait Bartre.png

  • Devil Axe: MT - 16 - If unit has HP based special equipped, damage is calculated using an additional 30% of damage suffered. Unit loses 15 HP after combat.
  • Refinement: If unit's HP ≥ 80% and unit initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. Grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack. (Does not stack.)
  • Change: Decreased HP threshold for Bold Fighter effect, increased post-combat recoil.

LaslowIcon Portrait Laslow.png

  • Dancing Blade: MT - 16 - If foe uses sword, lance or axe, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
  • Refinement: If unit kills an enemy, a random ally will be refreshed. (once per turn.)
  • Change: Nearest Ally dance effect replaced with Dancer's Veil effect.

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@Zeo After getting all the way down to Arthur, I decided that I don't have the energy to tackle both set 1 and set 2 in one sitting. Here's set 1, I'll try to get to set 2 tomorrow.

Odin
Just to be 100% clear, this tome's base effect grants him Atk +6 during battles where he either initiates or can counterattack (effectively making it a 20 Mt tome), right? Is there a point in the "if unit attacks" portion? I think it would be a lot clearer if the base effect was just changed to "Grants Atk+6 during combat." ... unless there's some serious drawback associated with having +6 Atk on combats where he does not counterattack that I'm unaware of.

I still dislike the concept of just making him Reinhardt (esp. when you give reasoning like "I didn't do [x] because it's too lazy" for other things), but that really comes down to personal opinion. I also think the refined effect text should be changed to the standard Brave weapon text of "Attack twice when initiating combat."

On the subject of whether or not it's strong enough:

Spoiler

i8zmceD.png

Footnotes:
+6 Atk buff is Atk Tactic. +11 Atk bonus is the difference between the Mt values of hypothetical Odin's Grimoire and Dire Thunder. +5 Spd bonus is to remove the Dire Thunder Spd penalty.
I gave enemies Fury and Distant Def to make them a little harder to KO.
Removing Inheritance Restrictions allowed me to give him Dire Thunder in the first place. As a side effect, it also let the healers take the Fury override...not that it did them much good.
I removed Greens from the enemy pool.

That's not the end-all, be-all of matchup analysis, obviously, but it looks strong enough to me.

tl;dr I think the wording should be altered/clarified, but it's otherwise workable. While I don't really like the idea of a Reinhardt carbon copy, I will concede that that's just personal bias talking.

Roy
I honestly don't see a problem with giving him an A-Passive-type refinement and letting the player put DC on him. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Fir
It doesn't violate the -breaker rules anymore, which is good. I think the refined effect is nice, as well, though I still think you might as well bump the base effect's Res bonus to +5.

Rebecca
It still looks like way too high of a return for dumping Def. In fact, it's even worse than the original +10 Atk bonus for having 4+ less Def than the enemy. Compare:

Before: +10 Atk across up to 2 hits. Total of up to 2 hits worth of Atk, +20.
After: +7 Atk across up to 3 hits. Total of up to 3 hits worth of Atk, +21.

Also, is it not supposed to be effective against fliers?

Florina
I like that building her is now more flexible. Double QR for a reliable defensive ORKO set was too restrictive, imo. It seems fine to me.

Lilina
I'm still of the opinion that if you're dead-set on effective damage, that it should be restricted to Breath weapons. No need to cause undue harm to innocent Pegasus Knights. I still like the promotion of AoE specials, and definitely think it's an improvement over the original iteration.

Bartre
Maybe change the damage bonus for HP-based specials to a flat increase. I don't like Bold Fighter in general, but it's especially true in this case, since it promotes healing him or otherwise keeping him above 80% HP, and just not giving him an HP-based special.

Lon'qu
After a little more thought, maybe remove the Vantage condition and change it to simply "Follow-up attacks occur immediately after unit's attack when this unit is attacked". Vantage just strikes me as a weird condition.

Arthur
I was reading the refinement wrong at first, I thought it was reversing enemy weapon affinity bonuses. Tbh...the only reason I see to use it over an Emerald Axe+ is the higher Mt. Idk if I'd feel comfortable sending him into a neutral matchup against a red unless they couldn't attack him back. Plenty of swords will make short work of him in a neutral matchup.

Lloyd
Just to clarify, is the base effect of Atk/Spd+2 overwritten by the refined effect of Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3? I'm not sure what I think about this weapon, overall.

Ursula
After your most recent edit, it seems fine to me.

Edited by LordFrigid

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