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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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Ye. I'm going to build Eliwood with Blazing Durandal refine. That's so good to pass up on a low rarity unit.

I only wish IS would go out of their way with the refines of low rarity heroes the same way. I understand that these are CYL units, but most low rarity or free heroes have fallen off since launch or are still performing as badly as they did when they got released.

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I refined all four of the brave heroes now. Lyn feels a bit underwhelming compared to the others, just getting a small stat boost. Roy feels like he has become a better Tibarn. Lucina went from utterly useless to the best support unit ever. And Ike feels like he has the most game changing refine thus far, especially if paired up with Lucina!

I always thought Brave Ike would be something else entirely he had a way to not counter until the enemy is done attacking, and now he has a refine that not only does that but reduces damage from the first attack in the process! I had not given him distant counter thus far despite having gotten him to +10 since it felt somewhat detrimental. But the second I refined his weapon I immediately went and sacrificed my last Nailah manual to give him DC and NCD. I had long had a hypothetical build in mind for giving him shield pulse and pairing him with saber and giving them both infantry pulse to make them a distant tanking team, but now that's not necessary at all. I just paired him with Lucina with her new refine and went to test him in the many crazy Aether Raid maps in my friend list which included the many annoying infantry pulse teams, and he tanked everything that came his way like a champ!

The only thing he needs to watch out for are Hardy Bearing users fast enough to double him (particularly if their second attack will trigger a special). Since that seal is almost always on an infantry unit, I just gave the +Atk Eir I had a poison dagger (with Death Blow 4 and the sturdy blow 4 seal to make up for the lack of attack) and now just use her to one-shot any Hardy Bearing user, then reposition her with Ike, then reposition her with Lucina (good thing she doesn't need to be adjacent like infantry pulse users do lol), leaving Ike on the front lines to take out anything that attacks him. Looks like light season of Aether Raids will now be a cinch!

And to think Brave Ike is now a free unit for everybody... Good thing 99% of his use is enemy phase, or he'd be the most annoying thing of all to encounter in arena and such. I've already seen a few of him in Aether Raids, but that feels like a free win since the AI is going to attack with him regardless. If it was smart enough to make him not attack at all, then he'd be a problem. lol

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45 minutes ago, Namero said:

I always thought Brave Ike would be something else entirely he had a way to not counter until the enemy is done attacking, and now he has a refine that not only does that but reduces damage from the first attack in the process! I had not given him distant counter thus far despite having gotten him to +10 since it felt somewhat detrimental. But the second I refined his weapon I immediately went and sacrificed my last Nailah manual to give him DC and NCD. I had long had a hypothetical build in mind for giving him shield pulse and pairing him with saber and giving them both infantry pulse to make them a distant tanking team, but now that's not necessary at all. I just paired him with Lucina with her new refine and went to test him in the many crazy Aether Raid maps in my friend list which included the many annoying infantry pulse teams, and he tanked everything that came his way like a champ!

You might also want to consider giving Lull Atk/Def if you ever get the chance. BH!Ike loses out on killing Firesweep nukes, but he gains a huge amount of bulk and defensive power against everyone else. And if you turn him into a super tank, he does not need to counter kill Firesweep nukes anyways since they have low damage output and he can just wall them off.

Edited by XRay

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1 hour ago, Namero said:

The only thing he needs to watch out for are Hardy Bearing users fast enough to double him (particularly if their second attack will trigger a special). Since that seal is almost always on an infantry unit, I just gave the +Atk Eir I had a poison dagger (with Death Blow 4 and the sturdy blow 4 seal to make up for the lack of attack) and now just use her to one-shot any Hardy Bearing user, then reposition her with Ike, then reposition her with Lucina (good thing she doesn't need to be adjacent like infantry pulse users do lol), leaving Ike on the front lines to take out anything that attacks him. Looks like light season of Aether Raids will now be a cinch!

 

Good luck one shotting Alm with that. Brave Ike is awesome but a Hardy Bearing Legendary Alm will Tear through him like nothing, as i witnessed while testing him out on Friend Maps. Although he wasnt running any Blessing Buffs.

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Ophelia.

Not even the mighty BH!Ike can stand in Ophelia's way. He can tank Ophelia if you run him as a super tank though.

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32 minutes ago, XRay said:

He can tank Ophelia if you run him as a super tank though.

Ophelia literally depletes all of his HP with her Special alone.

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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Ophelia literally depletes all of his HP with her Special alone.

He barely survives, but I think it is an achievement worth mentioning, since not a lot of super tanks can tank Ophelia either. I tested him with Light Blessing with 2 Eirs and Summmoner Support. Should be able to handle Ophelia up to +10+10.

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51 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Every competent AR Defense Team has Hardy Bearing on their Barracks in some form.

Yeah, Hardy Bearing is what I just have to watch out for with my Kronya. There are also other way to block her a bit but Hardy Bearing is one of them. 

Edited by Stroud

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Hardy Bearing was the first Seal that I fully maxed after they were introduced into FEH. It was one of the main reasons I'd almost gotten to the highest tiers in Arena, because everyone at the time was using Desperation and Vantage like no one's business. Oh sure, people laughed that I chose such a "weak" Seal to upgrade first...well who's laughing now, Kronya and Brave!Ike users??

Also...being the one on gamepress that introduced the idea of using Hardy Bearing with Blazing Wind back when we could still comment on the Special skills pages, I was understandably very much of a heavy user of said Seal. Though the combo isn't used nearly as much as it could be (especially with Enemy Phase kits being so prevalent), the combo itself is strong and deserves some recognition.

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On 9/7/2019 at 4:26 AM, MilodicMellodi said:

Hardy Bearing was the first Seal that I fully maxed after they were introduced into FEH. It was one of the main reasons I'd almost gotten to the highest tiers in Arena, because everyone at the time was using Desperation and Vantage like no one's business. Oh sure, people laughed that I chose such a "weak" Seal to upgrade first...well who's laughing now, Kronya and Brave!Ike users??

Also...being the one on gamepress that introduced the idea of using Hardy Bearing with Blazing Wind back when we could still comment on the Special skills pages, I was understandably very much of a heavy user of said Seal. Though the combo isn't used nearly as much as it could be (especially with Enemy Phase kits being so prevalent), the combo itself is strong and deserves some recognition.

The main problem with Hardy Bearing back when upgrading Sacred Seals was first implemented was the fact that it wasn't useful at all in the high Arena where virtually no one ran Desperation or Vantage.

Furthermore, with the sole exception of challenge map solo runs, AoE Specials were competitively unviable from a functional perspective until Ophelia was released. Prior to Ophelia's release, their use in was almost exclusively as SP point sticks in the Arena when Aether or Galeforce wasn't available and for solo runs.

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On 1/8/2019 at 9:43 PM, Mercakete said:

Custom red tome for Tormod: Ally beast units within 2 spaces gain def/res+3. This unit counts as a beast unit for the purpose of allowing allied transformation.

I'm not so great at this, but building a custom tome for him sounded fun. Someone word this better/make it more realistic wrt stats.

I still want this to be a thing. Though, maybe instead of def/res he'd boost res/spd. Seeing as Begnion is mostly Pegasus knights and mages (as I recall) and Tormod's goals, it seems more like the stats he'd boost.

Tormod: Laguz Liberator, Red Tome Infantry

Prf weapon: Burning Pseudobeast (I'm unsure of how much Mt his weapons would reasonably get. I don't recall how good his MAG was in his home games.) Ally beast units within 2 spaces gain res/spd+3. This unit counts as a beast unit for the purpose of allowing allied transformation.

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I do have...a question about Brave!Ike.

If a skill was made that reduced damage by a flat amount for allies (either Spur or Drive range), and Brave!Ike inherited Pavise/Aegis, DC (for the Aegis build) and Shield Pulse, would that be enough to make the Barrier Specials competitively viable?

Yeah, it's true that they don't offer anything except protection. And I'm fairly certain that the combined damage reduction really is multiplicative and not additive (though in that case, would it be 60% (40+[40x0.5], or 40+20) or 70% (50+[50x0.4], or 50+20))? But, if we had the ability to stack up enough fixed damage reduction in addition to Shield Pulse's own AND Urvan's and Pavise's/Aegis' percentage-based damage reductions, wouldn't he just kinda...take close to no damage in general? Wouldn't that, then, make Pavise/Aegis a competitively-viable skill for Brave!Ike to consider?

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8 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Yeah, it's true that they don't offer anything except protection. And I'm fairly certain that the combined damage reduction really is multiplicative and not additive (though in that case, would it be 60% (40+[40x0.5], or 40+20) or 70% (50+[50x0.4], or 50+20))? But, if we had the ability to stack up enough fixed damage reduction in addition to Shield Pulse's own AND Urvan's and Pavise's/Aegis' percentage-based damage reductions, wouldn't he just kinda...take close to no damage in general? Wouldn't that, then, make Pavise/Aegis a competitively-viable skill for Brave!Ike to consider?

Pavise and Aegis is competitive for annoying offensive players in Aether Raids. I think Seliph is still better since Miracle literally means he has infinite bulk and cannot die, whereas Deflects and damage reduction just means BH!Ike has insanely high but still limited bulk, so BH!Ike can still die.

On 9/13/2019 at 12:52 PM, XRay said:

Stupid good, especially if it is an all range Ice Mirror.

@Anacybele, this BH!Ike might not get you consistent Aether Raids defense wins, but it sure as hell would annoy any player on offense who forgot to bring a Firesweep nuke or Ophelia.

Behold the glory of the nigh unkillable mighty BH!Ike. Yes, he is [+Res, -HP]! Yes, he is merge+0! Yes, he has no Flowers! And yes, he has no buffs! He can survive against the most fiery of monsters!

  Reveal hidden contents

CHALLENGER LIST  
Ike (Brave) (5* +res -hp)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Pavise  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Shield Pulse 3  
S: Deflect Melee 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  

Against one of the best little sisters in all of Fire Emblem history, the super cute imouto and spicy hot Carolina Reaper: Laevatein! She got 14 damageDF+102 Duma cheerleaders, 7/7/7/7 bonus buffs, and fully charged Moonbow.

  Reveal hidden contents

ENEMIES - CUSTOM LIST  
Laevatein (5*+10 +atk -hp)  
Weapon: Laevatein  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vantage 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  

(I know BH!Ike is using Pavise instead of Escutcheon to simulate Ice Mirror, and charged Glimmer from Laevatein will kill BH!Ike, but we are trying to make BH!Ike look good here.)

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Haven't done these in a while.

Tobin
IlwoonAccelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1). Effective against armored units.
Refinement: If unit's HP >= 50% and foe initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Leon
Mila's Bow: At the start of turn 1, grants special cooldown count-2 to unit and unit's support partner (if any).
Refinement: Bonus stats granted to and from support partner are increased by 2.

Cecilia
Cecilia's Gale
Effective against flying units. Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt.
Refinement: At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to an infantry ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit for 1 turn.

Corrin (F)
Dragonic Tide: If attacked, unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range. If foe's Range = 2, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Refinement: If foe initiates combat, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-4 on foe during combat.

Edited by redlight

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10 hours ago, redlight said:

Haven't done these in a while.

Tobin
IlwoonAccelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1). Effective against armored units.
Refinement: If unit's HP >= 50% and foe initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Leon
Mila's Bow: At the start of turn 1, grants special cooldown count-2 to unit and unit's support partner (if any).
Refinement: Bonus stats granted to and from support partner are increased by 2.

Cecilia
Cecilia's Gale
Effective against flying units. Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt.
Refinement: At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to an infantry ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit for 1 turn.

Corrin (F)
Dragonic Tide: If attacked, unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range. If foe's Range = 2, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Refinement: If foe initiates combat, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-4 on foe during combat.

What we need first and foremost is some Healer refines!!!!

Azama
Wrys
Clarine
etc. are long overdue. Seriously IS give us finally some Healer refined exclusiv weapons!!!!

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

What we need first and foremost is some Healer refines!!!!

Azama
Wrys
Clarine
etc. are long overdue. Seriously IS give us finally some Healer refined exclusiv weapons!!!!

I am hoping old staff users get both Dazzling Staff and Wrathful Staff built into their Weapons. Nagi got like 3 effects on her Weapon, so I think giving old healers 4 effects (Dazzling, Wrathful, base effect, Refine effect) to offset their lower BST is pretty reasonable.

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On 9/15/2019 at 1:42 AM, MilodicMellodi said:

I do have...a question about Brave!Ike.

If a skill was made that reduced damage by a flat amount for allies (either Spur or Drive range), and Brave!Ike inherited Pavise/Aegis, DC (for the Aegis build) and Shield Pulse, would that be enough to make the Barrier Specials competitively viable?

Aegis and Pavise are not competitively viable on Ike unless you're aiming to stall the opponent out on Aether Raids defense. Without Aether or Sol, he's unable to heal between rounds of combat, making it harder for him to tank the multiple rounds of combat needed for Aether Raids, and the extra bulk is completely unnecessary in other game modes.

If you want to do things like tank Alm, you can do it better by running Deflect Missile with Aether and Breath support (Geirskogul or Infantry Breath) for self-sustain or Bonfire and no Breath support if self-sustain is unnecessary.

 

12 hours ago, redlight said:

Cecilia
Cecilia's Gale
Effective against flying units. Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt.
Refinement: At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to an infantry ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit for 1 turn.

I'd rather they just give her her signature Aircalibur instead of making a new weapon that's basically just Aircalibur.

I also doubt they'll give her a Litrblade weapon. They've so far only given those to units that had one as their base weapon, and I don't really think they want to make more of them.

 

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

What we need first and foremost is some Healer refines!!!!

Azama
Wrys
Clarine
etc. are long overdue. Seriously IS give us finally some Healer refined exclusiv weapons!!!!

59 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am hoping old staff users get both Dazzling Staff and Wrathful Staff built into their Weapons. Nagi got like 3 effects on her Weapon, so I think giving old healers 4 effects (Dazzling, Wrathful, base effect, Refine effect) to offset their lower BST is pretty reasonable.

I don't see the point of making new uninheritable staves for existing units. Refined Gravity+, Pain+, and Panic+ already do their jobs perfectly.

If you want a combat staffie, use a combat staffie. But we don't need every staffie and their mom to be a combat staffie.

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42 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see the point of making new uninheritable staves for existing units. Refined Gravity+, Pain+, and Panic+ already do their jobs perfectly.

If you want a combat staffie, use a combat staffie. But we don't need every staffie and their mom to be a combat staffie.

We do not need every old staff unit to be a combat staff unit, but it would be nice to have it. For old combat staff units, it means their B slot is completely free to do other fancy stuff. For low Atk staves like Azama and Wrys, I guess it does not really benefit them much, but it sure makes grinding SP a hell of a lot easier.

Nagi does not need Slaying on her Weapon to be relevant to the meta, but she has it anyways.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Nagi does not need Slaying on her Weapon to be relevant to the meta, but she has it anyways.

The point of Slaying being on her weapon is not to be relevant to the meta, but to make her default skill set work. You could make the argument that they could give her Noontime instead of Sol, but then it'd just look half-baked.

Staffies do not need to have a unique weapon to be relevant to the meta or to make their default skill sets work. Staffies are already absurdly good at what they're intended to do and are relevant to the meta simply by having access to staves. The few staff units that have unique weapons have them in order to stand out, not to make them relevant to the meta or to make their default skill sets work.

Sure, there are better staff users and worse staff users, but they function very similarly to dancers. Simply having access to staves is as significant as simply having access to Dance because just that much is sufficient to perform the role the the unit was intended to perform.

Non-staff and non-dancer units need either a strong stat line or a strong unique weapon to perform their role because newer units are becoming more resistant to dying. However, newer units are not becoming more resistant to being debuffed, and the more resistant enemies are to dying, the more effective debuffing becomes.

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56 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The point of Slaying being on her weapon is not to be relevant to the meta, but to make her default skill set work. You could make the argument that they could give her Noontime instead of Sol, but then it'd just look half-baked.

Staffies do not need to have a unique weapon to be relevant to the meta or to make their default skill sets work. Staffies are already absurdly good at what they're intended to do and are relevant to the meta simply by having access to staves. The few staff units that have unique weapons have them in order to stand out, not to make them relevant to the meta or to make their default skill sets work.

Sure, there are better staff users and worse staff users, but they function very similarly to dancers. Simply having access to staves is as significant as simply having access to Dance because just that much is sufficient to perform the role the the unit was intended to perform.

Non-staff and non-dancer units need either a strong stat line or a strong unique weapon to perform their role because newer units are becoming more resistant to dying. However, newer units are not becoming more resistant to being debuffed, and the more resistant enemies are to dying, the more effective debuffing becomes.

Staves do not need the complete staff package, and neither does Nagi need sustainability, but having those things as a bonus certainly helps.

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see the point of making new uninheritable staves for existing units. Refined Gravity+, Pain+, and Panic+ already do their jobs perfectly.

If you want a combat staffie, use a combat staffie. But we don't need every staffie and their mom to be a combat staffie.

I very much disagree, and I am not talking about beefed up Gravity+ Pain+ and Panic+ Staves but unique ones.

Wrys could use a staff with Res+3, Sabotage Atk & Spd 2 and Dazzling for example.

I am not talking about beefed up regular staves like Brave Camilla got. But you have to throw a bone to older Healers, they are falling way behind.

Also setting up Dancers and Healers on the same pedestal is laughable, I use healers mostly, but every Vid you see its Dancers everywhere mostly, of course you can use both at the same time which is best i guess.

 

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2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Also setting up Dancers and Healers on the same pedestal is laughable, I use healers mostly, but every Vid you see its Dancers everywhere mostly, of course you can use both at the same time which is best i guess.

You must've misunderstood my point.

The similarity between staffies and dancers has nothing to do with comparing the two categories to each other. It has everything to do with comparing members within each category to other members of the same category. The similarity between staffies and dancers is the fact that the members are largely interchangeable for performing their primary role and that their primary roles cannot be performed my most units outside of their categories.

Azama using Gravity+ is largely the same as Lucius using Gravity+. Olivia using Dance is largely the same as Ninian using Dance. Unless you have a very specific need, like actually participating in combat for the purposes of dealing damage or needing a specific color or stat line to manipulate the AI or tank an attack, most staffies are interchangeable with other staffies of the same movement type and most dancers are interchangeable with other dancers of the same movement type.

In the same way that we don't have 50 unique versions of Dance, one for each dancer, we don't need to have 50 unique staff weapons, one for each staffie.

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