General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Vicious Sal]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Even with a Meister Weapon, Gordin's Atk is not high enough to make effective use Counter-Vantage.

Even with an effective 13 Mt Weapon, Gordin (47=34+9+4) still has:
2 less Atk than WOT!Reinhardt (49=38+11)
4 less than UOT!Leif (51=42+9)
7 less than Keaton (54=45+9)

 

I man I didn;t even check his atk. Well, he's going to stay bottom of the barrel forever then.

[Kaden]

2 hours ago, Zeo said:

Subaki's is interesting but not quite enough to set him apart and make him worth using over other options. Merely an adequate and somewhat fun option if you like him.

The fun part is kind of why I like his and Gordin's unique refinements and F!Kana's Sun Dragonstone, but find Athena's Concealed Blade with its unique refinement disappointing even though it's practical. So, good and practical effects are what they are, but unique effects that are hopefully not too convoluted or better, practical would be nice.

With Virion's Dignified Bow's effects and the Spectrum Boost effect, it made me wonder about more HP-based effects in the future and surprisingly enough, Subaki was given one for his new Golden Naginata's unique refinement allowing him to deal 7 damage if his HP >= 70%. My thoughts were on Marisa since her HP is pretty good. Something like where the effect uses her max HP, but instead of Spectrum Boost or a two stat Boost, they could do something else.

As a whole, Golden Naginata might not be that great to some where at worst, it's a glorified Killer Lance with the low attack check, but it's still interesting. That said, though, because Subaki's attack is the same as Selena's, but he's a flier who has easy access to Goad Fliers, Subaki would be able to get a ton of attack and speed or a bit extra with some into his defense and resistance as well. Three Goad Fliers and passing the attack check which he should be able to do easily with +Atk means Atk/Spd+15 and Def/Res+3. So, a +Atk Subaki would have 40 HP, 60 Atk, 50 Spd, 38 Def, and 25 Res; take 4 points from his HP or 3 from his Spd, Def, or Res depending on his flaw. It's only 3 more attack and speed than what he'd usually get, but it still helps and he's rocking a personal Killer Lance now, so he can activate specials faster and as noted, his unique refinement allows him to deal 7 damage when his HP is >= 70%. Like Selena, Fortress Def/Res 3 would work fine on him. He'd have 50 HP, 58 Atk, 50 Spd, 44 Def, and 31 Res instead with three Goad Fliers, passing the low attack check, and Fortress Def/Res 3. That would make it easier to keep the unique refinement up against physical damage units and also magical, but his resistance isn't as great. Alternatively, Ward Fliers stacking could work since he will deal 7 damage when his HP is >= 70%, so he could chip away at people and focus on his defenses instead so he can do that or to allow him to explode people with Ignis.

2 hours ago, Zeo said:

F!Kana's is actually pretty good if a bit situational, but she's *5 locked and easily accessible green dragons will outperform her, as will other *5 dragons such as M!Grima or Nagi.

I don't follow with how it's a bit situational. The Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 during combat requires F!Kana to be attacked or for her foes to not have any field buffs on them. So, it's essentially Spectrum Stance, but it can work on player phase if you meet its requirements. It's similar to how Lethe and Panne's stat boosts during combat effects can be considered as primarily Solo skills, but can work as Bonds with beast and dragon allies. It's also better than Rowdy Sword's unique refinement since Luke has no other way to activate it other than hope his opponent has no field buffs and also for Scythe of Sariel, but the Death Knight also covers extra movement buffs and prevents follow-ups. Moving on, the unique refinement being Lull Atk/Spd makes it easier for F!Kana to have the effect work on player phase and in general makes her bulkier and lets her double more people. On enemy phase or if her foe doesn't have Def or Res field buffs, then she effectively has Atk+4 and Spd/Def/Res+7 during combat. Note: Lull X/Y 3 inflicts X/Y-3. Lull Def/Res doesn't exist yet, but it would allow her to cover all field buffs and ensure she'd have Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 at all times which effectively becomes Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7.

F!Kana could probably be a good speed tank. As you noted, though, she's 5* locked, there are more accessible or alternative options. Two green tanks with personal weapons that come to mind are Hawkeye and CYL Ike where Hawkeye is a 3* to 4* summonable unit and while CYL Ike is 5* locked, he is a free unit through Heroes' Paths. Hawkeye has a Lull effect on his axe as well, but trades the Spectrum Stance effect for a Killer effect and CYL Ike doesn't have a Lull effect, but extreme, percentage-based damage reduction. Otherwise for 3* to 4* melee greens, there's Fae, Libra, and summer Ylgr among others. Another thing is that as a dragon, F!Kana can't benefit from CYL Lucina's unique refined Geirskogul's effects. If F!Kana wants to run both Distant Counter or have a Breath effect, then she needs to have the Breath effect or someone with Infantry Breath which only works if on infantry allies adjacent to the unit with Infantry Breath unlike with Geirskogul's unique refinement working if the ally is within 2 spaces of CYL Lucina. Though, given her speed or the speed she can reach, Infantry Flash which only Hero-King Marth has could work and maybe with a lot of attack buffs, Infantry Rush which Brady has and he's in the 4* summoning pool.

2 hours ago, Zeo said:

Gordin's is just a worse Argent with more limited utility. Klein is 100% a better option if you're going for a Brave Bow refine.

Gordin was never going to double anything without a -breaker really and especially with a Brave Bow. The unique refinement is interesting as an Atk/Def version of Tharja's Hex's effect. Brave weapons are what they are and for the most part, a personal Brave weapon is enough that the unique refinement unless it's really amazing, can work fine. Still, considering Klein has a personal Brave Bow that traded 1 Mt for 3 Spd and they both have the same base neutral Atk of 31, but Klein has 33 base neutral Spd to Gordin's 25 base, it's kind of hard for Gordin to stand out.

Gordin can work as a slow, Brave unit and the unique refinement ensures he effectively has Atk+4 along with Def/Res+4 which isn't that important for a Brave unit. Offensively, this means Gordin has 44/20 to Klein's 39/31. If Chill Def is affected his target, though, Klein would have 46/31 effective offenses. Defensively, Gordin would have 36/21 effective defenses with 43 HP and 20 Spd while Klein would have 20/24 defenses with 40 HP and 31 Spd. Gordin's raw defenses are better, but he gets doubled to death by everyone. Because everyone wants Lulls these days, Gordin with Lull Atk/Def would have 47/20 effective offenses at all times and 39/24 effective defenses. Klein with Lull Spd/Def would have 42/34 effective offenses or 49/34 if Chill Def is affected his target, but his defenses would be unchanged. Lull Atk/Def or Lull Atk/Spd would give him 23/27 effective defenses at the cost of either Atk or Spd.

I guess the takeaway is that Gordin's consistent in his damage output and he has defenses, mainly physical, for what that's worth. At the cost of consistency since Chill Def might not always hit who you want him to target, Klein can double given enough speed buffs or against slower foes. Klein also has another edge in that he doesn't need much, it's cheaper for him, to do well and either as a slow or fast Brave. By default, Klein comes with Death Blow 3 which you could upgrade to Death Blow 4 or swap out with Fury, L&D, Mirror/Sturdy Impact, Swift Sparrow or whatever. For his B passive, Desperation is cheap or if you want to ensure a double, then a -breaker. For Gordin, giving him Death Blow 3 and probably from Klein no less is fine, but he's not going to double without a -breaker, so Fury, L&D, Swift Sparrow, and Desperation are not going to be as useful as they would be on Klein. Gordin can run Desperation as his B passive and Brash Assault as his seal, but he needs to be at <= 50% HP to Desperation, Brash Assault someone who can counter while Klein probably could have doubled naturally or would only need to be at <= 75% for Desperation. Double Brazen Atk/Spd 3 Klein would have high attack and speed, 53/45 or 59/45 if Chill Def affected his target, while double Brazen Atk/Def 3 Gordin would only have attack, 58 Atk, which if he somehow misses a kill on someone who can counter, he could potentially die even against physical damage units with 14 more defense, 50 Def, from double Brazen Atk/Def and the unique refinement. Double Brazen Atk/Spd 3 Gordin would have 58/34 offenses which isn't that great because of the Spd-5 penalty unlike with double Brazen Atk/Spd 3, Brazen Atk/Def 3 Alfonse who has the same base speed of 25 and gets Atk+21 from running three Brazen skills, one from his refined weapon and the other from his A passive and seal. This is also with Renowned Bow's unique refinement which is probably still better than getting Spd+2 from the unique refinement at the cost of Atk/Def/Res+4 from the Atk/Def-4 on foes within 2 spaces effect.

I guess I could see Mirror/Sturdy Impact being a weird thing Gordin can do where he'd have 36/31 effective defenses with Mirror or 46/21 with Sturdy Impact and either would prevent follow-ups, but if you're a slow Brave unit who fails to kill, then there's something wrong.

2 hours ago, Zeo said:

Athena's is the most disappointing. She in a nutshell becomes better Lyn.

It works and she has Desperation, but it's not like as Ice Dragon suggested, if she had a Wo Dao version of Mareeta's Shadow Sword where the Desperation effect comes from having >= 50% HP. Or even the Golden Dagger idea I had where Athena would have Desperation and Atk/Spd+6 or whatever other effect if her special is charged. So, Athena can run Desperation and Null Follow-Up, Special Spiral, Vantage or whatever, but it's just expected, I guess? It's not extraordinary and she could easily end up being a worse version of someone again or have the effect be not as good as future ones like fallen Delthea's Death's "Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 during combat. After combat, if unit attacked, deals 4 damage to unit" is so much better than witch Celica's Beloved Zofia's "At start of combat, if unit's HP = 100%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4, but after combat, if unit attacked, deals 4 damage to unit" because there is no HP check. They're different units, but what I guess I'm trying to say is that they could easily throw in Mia for a future weapon update and she ends up with the reverse Desperation effect.

For Lyn, Desperation 3 and Brash Assault 4 on unique refined Sol Katti means she doesn't always have to pass a speed check for Desperation as long as her foe can counter. Athena always has to pass the speed check for Desperation in return for dealing 10 damage if she activates a special. Which is better is up to you considering that the speed wars are on as both are in a competitive field as speedy or once were speedy sword infantry. Lyn getting to ignore speed at times might be useful in certain situations, but she gets countered by Null Follow-Up while Athena has to deal with speed and can ignore Null Follow-Up if she's not using a -breaker or running Brash Assault herself. Both get countered by someone running Hardy Bearing and CYL Ike probably laughs at them because he already forces Desperation on them, so essentially, Lyn has a glorified Silver Sword and Athena has a personal Wo Dao against him.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Kaden

[Fabulously Olivier]

I'd consider building Subaki. Not any of the others though. 

[Jingle Jangle]

I'll make Athena's refine work. Freeing up the B slot is pretty useful. Wrath feel such an obvious choice now.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Zeo i disagree with your notes on Brave refine. Personally i think Gordin is now one of the top Brave Bow initiator in the game and Klein is basically pointless at least when both are built into their peak performance which means premium SI, Dragonflowers, and a lot of killed Dimitris. Every last one of them.

Its not exactly the best role but lets break it down

 

Gordin have 31 atk

Klein have 31 atk

Leif have 38 atk

 

Gordin atk boon prf db4 lull:

34 + 9 + 4 + 9 + 4 = 60 ATK

Leif atk superboon prf db4 lull

42 + 9 + 9 + 4 = 64 ATK

Klein Atk boon prf db4 lull

34 + 8 + 9 + 4= 55 ATK with 31 speed

Alm ATK boon Bravebow db4 Lull

40 + 7 + 9 + 4 = 60 ATK with 32 speed

 

Chill def is now a seal so you can just slap it on anyones seal slot and call it a day. 

 

When it comes to seal slot everyone on the list can use the Sturdy Blow seal for 4/4 but Gordin have an alternative option - his effective atk number is 60 since his Prf also reduces atk which means he can proc Moonbow when initiating against 59 atk and lower. Thanks to Lull this Heavy Blade marker cant be lowered by blue buffs. 

 

Klein is like really left off now. 31 speed isnt too hot and even if you give him Chill and not everyone else hes only 2 atk above Gordin whereas Gordins initiation is probably pretty lethal now, reaching up to 71 ATK before buff post Chill and can use Moonbow spam instead if you want to. 

 

@Kaden Sturdy Impact and stuff can be interesting on them yeah. I find it funny how Leif is so far ahead that he even basically have Sturdy Impact built in to his weapon lol

 

 

Im happy with the Bow refine so far. Klein was phenomenal for his time. Gordin got a refine that respects his fe3 self, arguably the best archer in the entire series and Virion is basically back to his day 1 position where he was the second best Archer after the TKJ. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Vicious Sal]

51 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@Zeo i disagree with your notes on Brave refine. Personally i think Gordin is now one of the top Brave Bow initiator in the game and Klein is basically pointless at least when both are built into their peak performance which means premium SI, Dragonflowers, and a lot of killed Dimitris. Every last one of them.

Its not exactly the best role but lets break it down

 

Gordin have 31 atk

Klein have 31 atk

Leif have 38 atk

 

Gordin atk boon prf db4 lull:

34 + 9 + 4 + 9 + 4 = 60 ATK

Leif atk superboon prf db4 lull

42 + 9 + 9 + 4 = 64 ATK

Klein Atk boon prf db4 lull

34 + 8 + 9 + 4= 55 ATK with 31 speed

Alm ATK boon Bravebow db4 Lull

40 + 7 + 9 + 4 = 60 ATK with 32 speed

 

Chill def is now a seal so you can just slap it on anyones seal slot and call it a day. 

 

When it comes to seal slot everyone on the list can use the Sturdy Blow seal for 4/4 but Gordin have an alternative option - his effective atk number is 60 since his Prf also reduces atk which means he can proc Moonbow when initiating against 59 atk and lower. Thanks to Lull this Heavy Blade marker cant be lowered by blue buffs. 

 

Klein is like really left off now. 31 speed isnt too hot and even if you give him Chill and not everyone else hes only 2 atk above Gordin whereas Gordins initiation is probably pretty lethal now, reaching up to 71 ATK before buff post Chill and can use Moonbow spam instead if you want to. 

 

@Kaden Sturdy Impact and stuff can be interesting on them yeah. I find it funny how Leif is so far ahead that he even basically have Sturdy Impact built in to his weapon lol

 

 

Im happy with the Bow refine so far. Klein was phenomenal for his time. Gordin got a refine that respects his fe3 self, arguably the best archer in the entire series and Virion is basically back to his day 1 position where he was the second best Archer after the TKJ. 

Ok I did some calcs, and since both are PP archers the best place I can see them on is an infantry pulse defense team. They aren't suited to CC vantage, so let's make them as annoying to deal with as possible on defense:

 

these are with 1 Thrasir buffing them. Gordin has +2 attack to simulate his PRF wpn.

Gordon reaches 70 Atk when danced by Legendary Azura with a Dance seal. 

Klein reaches 65 with the same buffs from Azura. He goes up to 72 effective attack if the target is chilled.

Gordin will hit like a truck, with a 1 charge Ignis he'll hit twice for 70 ATK + a massive 48 dmg added on top. Assuming a regular tank has 50 defence, he's hitting for 98 damage. That's huge. 

Klein, assuming Chill def is in effect, will be hitting for 72 atk, assuming 50 defense, that's 22 x2 damage with an added 39 damage from Ignis. That's a total of 83 damage. Quite a bit lower than Gordin. 

However, Klein is running Lull Spd/Def, which means his 36 spd, which goes up to 41 with Azura's buff, will end up at a 44 spd with the enemy unable to use their visible buffs. That's a likely chance to double, since a lot of tanks still use QR because all their stats are dumped into defense and res. With this, Klein adds an additional 44 damage, for a total of 127 damage. 

Gordin will not be quadding anything. Gordin also is easier to snipe, and Klein has the added benefit of being able to replicate these damage numbers in Dark season as well, with Sothis buffing up his Res stat. 

 

For a big one shot nuke, Gordin works, but I think Klein has the edge because of speed, versatility and mixed bulk. 83 damage is still more than enough to KO the enemy tank, gordin overkills, which comes at the cost of his other stats. i think Klein is still the better option.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Vicious Sal

[Diovani Bressan]

I liked Gordin's, but not enough to build him. The others are also skipable by me...

Kana is pretty good, but to bad it's only for the female one... Male Kana would enjoy it so much!

[Ice Dragon]

Athena

I got close, and Desperation is almost as good as Holsety. The biggest drawback of Null Follow-Up on most units is the fact that it prevents you from running Desperation for sustain, so getting Desperation on her weapon is extremely valuable. Same argument for Wrath, too.

You can now run builds like

Athena [+Spd] (Concealed Blade [unique], Moonbow, Swift Sparrow 3, Null Follow-Up 3, Flashing Blade 3)
Athena [+Spd] (Concealed Blade [unique], Luna, Swift Sparrow 3, Wrath 3, Flashing Blade 3)

without having to worry about sustain.

It's a toss-up between this and Kana's weapon for the best of the bunch. I might build her if I can find some Dew lying around.

Kana

+4 to all stats on enemy phase or if the opponent has no buffs. Lull Atk/Spd as the refine. That's really good. Now we just have to wait for Lull Def/Res to be released.

With just her weapon with the effects active, Kana has an effective stat spread of 43/50/41/40/33, which is incredibly solid. Lull Def/Res on top of that would make it 40/53/41/40/33, which is only an effective +3 Atk, but it guarantees her the +4 to all stats on both phases. You can run a player-phase build like

Kana (F) [+Spd] (Sun Dragonstone [unique], Moonbow, Swift Sparrow 3 / Atk/Spd Solo 3, Lull Def/Res 3, Sturdy Blow 2 / Darting Blow 3)

or an enemy- or dual-phase build like

Kana (F) [+Spd / +Atk]
Sun Dragonstone [unique]
Reposition
Moonbow / Ignis (with Infantry Breath support)
Distant Counter
Lull Def/Res 3 / Quick Riposte 3 / Guard 3
Ward Dragons
Darting Stance 3 / Quick Riposte 3 / Atk/Spd Bond 3 / Distant Def 3 / [whatever]

Absolutely solid. Now I really have to think about whether I want her to be +Atk or +Spd (I have one of each). Decisions.

Subaki

The stat comparison takes place at the start of combat, meaning his combat buffs won't hurt his chances of activating the effect. Nice.

I'm expecting builds something along the lines of

Subaki [+Atk] (Golden Naginata [unique], Bonfire, Fierce Stance 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fierce Stance 3)
Subaki [+Atk / +Spd] (Golden Naginata [unique], Bonfire, Atk/Spd Bond 4, Quick Riposte 3, Atk/Spd Bond 3)

or other skills that give him combat boosts to Atk.

The first build gives him an effective 43/67/38/38/25 on enemy phase, and the second gives 43/67/50/38/25 (with +Atk) on both phases when adjacent to an ally. That's pretty respectable until you realize his Atk drops to 60 if he takes more than 30% damage. That's fine for enemy phase, at least, since it's the same threshold for Quick Riposte, but the dual-phase build suffers for it.

It's a good weapon, but it doesn't really set him too far apart from his competition unless you need a lance flier that's tankier than Tana (39/54/40/32/32 neutral with just her weapon equipped). He's at least viable now, but he won't be replacing any of the existing lance fliers unless you really like him as a character.

Gordin

Hits harder. Is tankier.

Effective +6 Atk over a Brave Bow+ pretty much just means he's an infantry bow with 37 base Atk. Which is good, making him the third-hardest-hitting Brave Bow in the game (after Leaf and Alm). His Spd is still awful at 20, but Brave weapons have trouble getting follow-ups with all of the Spd creep anyways, so it probably isn't too big of a deal... if the target dies.

His effective defenses are 43/36/21, which is still going to melt to magic unless he's running Mirror Impact, which loses 2×2 Atk to Death Blow 4, but gains him 10 Res, bumping his bulk to 43/36/31 and blocking follow-ups... except that he's godawful slow and is actually vulnerable to losing the Spd check against Quick Riposte and Vengeful Fighter. For perspective on just how godawful slow Gordin is, he gets doubled back by Valbar (25 with something other than Brave Lance), Idunn (26), Winter Fae (26), and Brave Ike (28).

Or you can double down on his Def and run Sturdy Impact for 43/46/21 defenses and probably still get Bonfired to death by Valbar.

He's probably your best option for a Brave Bow if you don't have Leaf, Alm, Brave Lyn, or Halloween Jakob, but all that means is he unseats Jamke for hardest-hitting F2P Brave Bow.

Overall thoughts

I like overalls, but they're not as comfy as shorts.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Diovani Bressan]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Kana (F) [+Spd / +Atk]
Sun Dragonstone [unique]
Reposition
Moonbow / Bonfire (with Geirskogul support)
Distant Counter
Lull Def/Res 3 / Quick Riposte 3 / Guard 3
Ward Dragons
Darting Stance 3 / Quick Riposte 3 / Atk/Spd Bond 3 / Distant Def 3 / [whatever]

Geirskögul doesn't work for dragon allies. Only with sword, lance, axe, bow, dagger and beast allies.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Geirskögul doesn't work for dragon allies. Only with sword, lance, axe, bow, dagger and beast allies.

Right. Replace that with Infantry Breath, then. I keep forgetting that it's physical and not melee.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Diovani Bressan]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Right. Replace that with Infantry Breath, then. I keep forgetting that it's physical and not melee.

Yeah. It's pretty easy to forget.

Infantry Breath will do the job... especially if it's on Marth or Male Corrin.

[Humanoid]

I'd been wanting to merge up Klein for a while but never got enough copies where I'd be comfortable with the amount of DB3 fodder I have. Gordin would save me about 9 Klein manuals which is a huge deal. Buuuuuut, in the meantime, IS saw it fit to release Legendary Alm and even at just +1 (with +Atk) the idea of merging up a common infantry archer suddenly became somewhat less appealing. If I do so, it's probably behind a queue of at least three other +10 projects so I have plenty of time to think about it.

Subaki is the opposite of Gordin where he's far too valuable as fodder for me to ever merge up, despite a lance flier probably being one of my most desired merge projects. He's been oddly rare for a long while now. Still waiting patiently on Cordelia vs Shigure with Clair as a possible dark horse.

As for the others, sword infantry is just whatever and Kana... well, no matter how good the refine is, I can't justify spending the dew on a unit I have unmerged and never intend to merge on the off-chance I ever get another off-focus copy before FEH shuts down for good. I'll probably have a +10 Fae as either my next project (as in, I'm sitting on 170k feathers right now and trying to decide who to use them on) or the one after that.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Humanoid

[Stroud]

At first I was a bit unhappy about Athena,s refine. But again its just better to look at it calmly and see what opportunities it gives.
The good thing is that I have just the right skill with Wrath on her. The game punished me on the late Nullify Follow Up though.. 360 orbs spend on that banner and only 1 Hilda as a consolation..so that is not a chance now for me.

While Luna and Moonbow look like the obvious choice I try to play around with a blazing skill and wrath. +20 attack is nice to have on this, it makes her more likely to get through blue units. As long as she does at least 1 damage after the blazing skill though. And I just want to see how far she can go on the next Abyssal map.
The lacking cooldown hurts for this, but I will see what I can do with it. That my Athena is atk+ might even come in handy for Wrath setup. 

[Xenomata]

For what it's worth, they're certainly all better than before, but nothing exactly makes me wanna go for any of their refines/+10 any of them.

Subaki and Gordin have no reason to use anything but their special refine lol.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Xenomata

[Hilda]

10 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

I man I didn;t even check his atk. Well, he's going to stay bottom of the barrel forever then.

not necessarly. Gordin can use a Lull Atk/Def combo with his refined weapon that gives -7Atk and -7Def in combat debuff total. now add on top of that smoke or chill skills and buffs on Gordin and it starts too look excellent for him, especially on the physical side.

But yeah in general i dont know if its worth to invest anymore into Gen 1/2 ranged unitt. unless they got an awesome refine the BST gap between Gen 4 and Gen 1 has become huge and there is just no way a range Gen 1 148-150 BST can compete with a Gen 4 162 to 166 BST, if their stat spread isnt min maxed. Thats a stat difference of 3 in every slot.

[Vicious Sal]

15 minutes ago, Hilda said:

not necessarly. Gordin can use a Lull Atk/Def combo with his refined weapon that gives -7Atk and -7Def in combat debuff total. now add on top of that smoke or chill skills and buffs on Gordin and it starts too look excellent for him, especially on the physical side.

But yeah in general i dont know if its worth to invest anymore into Gen 1/2 ranged unitt. unless they got an awesome refine the BST gap between Gen 4 and Gen 1 has become huge and there is just no way a range Gen 1 148-150 BST can compete with a Gen 4 162 to 166 BST, if their stat spread isnt min maxed. Thats a stat difference of 3 in every slot.

I think you missed my follow up post 😉

[X-Naut]

(Glances at predictions) Hm, off by quite a bit. Oh well.

Athena: Wo Dao+Desperation is rather white bread for a unit whose key trait is being foreign, but it works for her and it frees up the highly contested B slot.

Subaki: Huh, really good. Slaying is already a great start, and a watered down Sagittae suits his poor Atk perfectly. The refine effect is a nice nod to his personal skill in Fates.

Gordin: Looks the worst on paper but with the numbers are deceptively higher than they look and unlike the others' effects it can support his team. It can also contend with non-Prf bows for defensive builds.

F!Kana: The five-star Fates daughter gets a loaded refine, go figure. Anyway for a generalist like F!Kana loads of extra numbers are fairly solid, and the Lull refine makes her activation requirement even more lenient.

[XRay]

Battle Flag: Dagger, 12 Mt
Grants Atk×8.
Inspired by the new comic. Technically, the Weapon can have 0 Mt and still be overpowered; Felicia at 1* with Fortress Def/Res will still have 120 Atk (120=8*(17-2)). Felicia at 5* with +Atk will have 208 Atk (208=8*26).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Battle Flag: Dagger, 12 Mt
Grants Atk×8.
Inspired by the new comic. Technically, the Weapon can have 0 Mt and still be overpowered; Felicia at 1* with Fortress Def/Res will still have 120 Atk (120=8*(17-2)). Felicia at 5* with +Atk will have 208 Atk (208=8*26).

But every time a unit with this weapon goes into battle the stamina cost is increased to 99.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Zeo]

17 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

But every time a unit with this weapon goes into battle the stamina cost is increased to 99.

But Grand, Legendary and Mythic Hero battles don't cost stamina! Neither does Arena/AA/AB or AR!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, Zeo said:

But Grand, Legendary and Mythic Hero battles don't cost stamina! Neither does Arena/AA/AB or AR!

Even those battles will suddenly cost 99 stamina. Or 800 flags if a Voting Gauntlet is going on

[Zeo]

10 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Even those battles will suddenly cost 99 stamina. Or 800 flags if a Voting Gauntlet is going on

Touché.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Touché.

It's the price you pay for 8x damage. But when you really think about it...can that really compete with Duo skills? Probably not.

[XRay]

15 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

It's the price you pay for 8x damage. But when you really think about it...can that really compete with Duo skills? Probably not.

Desert Mercenaries Ephraim's Duo Skill is not that overpowered. A Monstrous Harvest Hector's Duo Skill is busted if the defense team is not prepared for it, but it is easily countered with a decent Healing Tower or healers.

[Humanoid]

So, uh, I didn't realise until reading the post above that Duo heroes have different activated abilities. Guess I glossed over the announcement trailer with that assumption in mind.