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PB&J

Alms personality compared to gaiden.

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Ive seen a lot of people say how alm is more bloodthirsty in gaiden. Meaning how he gives zero crap on his opponents and ig WANTS to kill them. However in Sov i dont think he actually changed that much. In gaiden it only really showed him in he was battling or what not. In sov alm sees like he would stop at nothing and literally would charge forth head on towards his opponents to save his country. He also seemed very aggressive. What im trying to say that i realy dont think alm changed from gaiden or he wanted to kill them at all but compared to other lords he shows less mercy. Idk just my thoughts and just pointing it out since its a little more unique among the FE lords.

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6 minutes ago, PB&J said:

Ive seen a lot of people say how alm is more bloodthirsty in gaiden. Meaning how he gives zero crap on his opponents and ig WANTS to kill them. However in Sov i dont think he actually changed that much. In gaiden it only really showed him in he was battling or what not. In sov alm sees like he would stop at nothing and literally would charge forth head on towards his opponents to save his country. He also seemed very aggressive. What im trying to say that i realy dont think alm changed from gaiden or he wanted to kill them at all but compared to other lords he shows less mercy. Idk just my thoughts and just pointing it out since its a little more unique among the FE lords.

I think the best way to understand Alm's personality in Gaiden is to take a look at the DLC with Alm in Awakening:

Quote

Alm: ...What's that? My attire? This is dread-fighter garb. A dread fighter battles to win, to better himself, and to protect those he loves. They are my world's most fearsome fighters. Of course, Celica thinks I should take a more compassionate approach to enemies... But really, it's a battlefield! How do you compassionately stab someone? It may sound barbaric, but that's just how I feel. If you hurt me, I hurt you back...tenfold. What about you? Do you have compassion for your foes?

Textbox: Can you show compassion to foes?

Alm: [if 'Yes' is chosen] Really? Impressive. Strong and tender, all at once. Is that a balancing act that comes with experience, or is it confidence? Well, you've given me something to mull over, at least. Maybe one day, I'll find it in my heart to be like you.

Alm: [if 'No' is chosen] See? It's not easy. ...Though for a moment there, I thought you were going to say "yes." No man is a saint. When an enemy wrongs us, it's natural to try and wrong them back. Celica has her own opinion. "Two wrongs don't make a right," she says. "Two rights don't prevent the next wrong," I usually answer. But maybe I'll change one day...

Alm did still go into war with Regelia in SoV, but by all means, he wanted to avoid fighting, and showed a lot more compassion to enemies and more than anything wanted to prevent the people from suffering any longer, much like Celica did. His methods actually tied closer to Mila's teachings, though he used more of Duma's methods. So he's like a mix. Which is not supposed to be the point. Alm was supposed to be like Duma, and Celica like Mila. The point was that they actually managed to find a middle ground in the end, which Duma and Mila couldn't.

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To be honest, it's likely that a majority of any flavour Alm had in Gaiden was more due to how the translation patch portrayed his dialogue.

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There is very little dialogue in Gaiden, but from what we do have, we have these lines:

Alm:
That’s no good. You can’t just tell the people of Sofia to go live under the barbarous rule of Rigel.
Seeing as how Rigel aided Dozer in ravaging the lands of Sofia, we’ve got no choice but to fight.

Alm:
What! That’s mean, Cellica. I don’t have those kinds of ambitions.
I just want to protect the people of Sofia, that’s all.
Besides, it seems that the royal family of Sofia’s only remaining princess is still alive, so I’m planning to search for her.
As soon as I find that princess, I’m returning to the village.

Alm:
Ah, Gramps — what in the world is going on!?
How could such a despicable man as Emperor Rudolf be my father!!!
That’s awful. Did you know nothing of this, Gramps!?

Mycen:
Alm. Your shock is understandable…
It’s true that you are Emperor Rudolf’s only son.
And now you have also become the only remaining heir of the royal family of Rigel.

Alm:
But why did something like this…
Why could I not avoid fighting against my own father?

Mycen:
Don’t cry, Alm…

Rudolf:
I see, so you’ve come at last…
Whatever happens now is inevitable. Shall I not witness this final battle as one of the glorious knights of Rigel?
Brave soldiers of Rigel! How admirably you have fought for me until now!
However… The time has already grown late. The fate of the Rigelian Empire has drawn to an end.
Hear me, all of you!!! This is my final request.
If I should fall, you must not interfere.
Those of you who remain should surrender like the courageous men you are.
I hear that Sofia’s young general is a man of compassion.

 

Alm:
Ah, it’ll be okay now. I’ll crush these bastards for you.

 

So to use these, only the bastard line is at all really aggressive. The rest makes Alm out to be no different from Marth, and the future Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Chrom, and Corrin. A kind young man wanting to save the world.

BORING! I say. The Awakening Einherjar had a nice idea behind it, but is unfortunately not the true original Alm.

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44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is very little dialogue in Gaiden, but from what we do have, we have these lines:

Alm:
That’s no good. You can’t just tell the people of Sofia to go live under the barbarous rule of Rigel.
Seeing as how Rigel aided Dozer in ravaging the lands of Sofia, we’ve got no choice but to fight.

Alm:
What! That’s mean, Cellica. I don’t have those kinds of ambitions.
I just want to protect the people of Sofia, that’s all.
Besides, it seems that the royal family of Sofia’s only remaining princess is still alive, so I’m planning to search for her.
As soon as I find that princess, I’m returning to the village.

Alm:
Ah, Gramps — what in the world is going on!?
How could such a despicable man as Emperor Rudolf be my father!!!
That’s awful. Did you know nothing of this, Gramps!?

Mycen:
Alm. Your shock is understandable…
It’s true that you are Emperor Rudolf’s only son.
And now you have also become the only remaining heir of the royal family of Rigel.

Alm:
But why did something like this…
Why could I not avoid fighting against my own father?

Mycen:
Don’t cry, Alm…

Rudolf:
I see, so you’ve come at last…
Whatever happens now is inevitable. Shall I not witness this final battle as one of the glorious knights of Rigel?
Brave soldiers of Rigel! How admirably you have fought for me until now!
However… The time has already grown late. The fate of the Rigelian Empire has drawn to an end.
Hear me, all of you!!! This is my final request.
If I should fall, you must not interfere.
Those of you who remain should surrender like the courageous men you are.
I hear that Sofia’s young general is a man of compassion.

 

Alm:
Ah, it’ll be okay now. I’ll crush these bastards for you.

 

So to use these, only the bastard line is at all really aggressive. The rest makes Alm out to be no different from Marth, and the future Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Chrom, and Corrin. A kind young man wanting to save the world.

BORING! I say. The Awakening Einherjar had a nice idea behind it, but is unfortunately not the true original Alm.

That pretty much sums everything up. He didnt change that much from gaiden. Awakening did it wrong but eh. He seems in echoes/gaiden  he is a little more aggressive towards his enimies. At least compared to the other lords. I think he still has the no mercy taste like in awakening but not as much. He does wanna protect the ones he love and sofia even if he doesn't wanna go to war but he seems more like he wouldn't let his enimies get in his way at all. I just think its a little more unique since almost every lord has a similar personality. 

Edited by PB&J

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42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

BORING! I say. The Awakening Einherjar had a nice idea behind it, but is unfortunately not the true original Alm.

That's one of the few things Awakening did right. I wish they would have kept that for Echoes. It's a bit of a retcon, but compared to changing Valentia into a continent, making Doma/Mila dragons, making Celica "dependent", her "death", and Grima , it would have actually made Gaiden's story better. 

It's true that Alm really was no different from your average FE lord, but for some reason I always got more aggressive vibes from him. I'm not alone in this and I don't know why. 

I think even Kaga doesn't like Gaiden's plot. I mean, stuff like split paths, a navigable world map, and monster enemies came back for Tearring Saga. Other than that, he never really talks about it anywhere. 

 

Edited by Køkø

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I mean looking at the short movies he really seems like he was going to cut them down with no hold back. He would literally charge into battle seems like he would also go head on alone if he had to. Eh it just like more of my alm if he wasnt as compassionat.

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1 hour ago, Køkø said:

That's one of the few things Awakening did right. I wish they would have kept that for Echoes. It's a bit of a retcon, but compared to changing Valentia into a continent, making Doma/Mila dragons, making Celica "dependent", her "death", and Grima , it would have actually made Gaiden's story better. 

I am not bothered by Duma and Mila being Divine Dragons, not the case of Grima having a backstory to be bad at all. 

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1 hour ago, PB&J said:

I mean looking at the short movies he really seems like he was going to cut them down with no hold back. He would literally charge into battle seems like he would also go head on alone if he had to. Eh it just like more of my alm if he wasnt as compassionat.

Well he's the general of an army. He needs to be the figure that inspires his men to fight and since Alm is the type of leader to fight on the frontlines as he gives order of course he would charge head first into battle. It's not so much that he's eager to cut down some Rigelian scum as much as he does what he feels is expected of him as the leader of the Deliverance. I don't think they added anything to Alm's character in the remake that made him look bloodthirsty or even give him an actual reason to think fighting isn't the correct option.

The only thing Echoes does is send in Celica to call him a warmonger who's trying to take the Zofian throne for himself while he sits there dumbfounded at the ridiculous leap in logic she made. Overall they really did a poor job of establishing a dichotomy between Alm and Celica when it came to their methods of handling the war between Rigel and Zofia.

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1 hour ago, Køkø said:

I think even Kaga doesn't like Gaiden's plot. I mean, stuff like split paths, a navigable world map, and monster enemies came back for Tearring Saga. Other than that, he never really talks about it anywhere. 

I think that's because Gaiden came out more like an RPG than a strategy game to him, which was not what he was aiming for. That, and hardware limitations on the NES meant that the story came off as subdued and barebones. (I got this information from an interview in the NES thread. It didn't take that long to find).

As for Alm, I think people exaggerated his bloodthirstiness when his character came out in Awakening. He's a simple villager who's the grandson of a renowned hero with some training in swordplay, and comes off as an average joe honestly. Granted, him being given control of the rebel army and the twist came out nowhere in Gaiden, while you could argue that the former was a publicity stunt and a gamble on Alm's character in Echoes. If anything, the impression I got from the two people who played the game pre-Awakening was that he was an idiot hero, and that Celica was the more interesting character (it helped that Jedah talked to her AT Duma Tower, and he had a much more immediate ultimatum).

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7 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I think that's because Gaiden came out more like an RPG than a strategy game to him, which was not what he was aiming for. That, and hardware limitations on the NES meant that the story came off as subdued and barebones. (I got this information from an interview in the NES thread. It didn't take that long to find).

Its story is less developed than its predecessor, which was also on the NES. He doesn't go into detail about Valentia in game or out. If the lack of realization was the case, you'd think he'd be more eager to explain. 

13 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

 

As for Alm, I think people exaggerated his bloodthirstiness when his character came out in Awakening. He's a simple villager who's the grandson of a renowned hero with some training in swordplay, and comes off as an average joe honestly. Granted, him being given control of the rebel army and the twist came out nowhere in Gaiden, while you could argue that the former was a publicity stunt and a gamble on Alm's character in Echoes. If anything, the impression I got from the two people who played the game pre-Awakening was that he was an idiot hero, and that Celica was the more interesting character (it helped that Jedah talked to her AT Duma Tower, and he had a much more immediate ultimatum).

I played Gaiden before Awakening and I still felt that way. Celica was as interesting as your average early 90s video game protagonist. She just wasn't a damsel.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Its story is less developed than its predecessor, which was also on the NES. He doesn't go into detail about Valentia in game or out. If the lack of realization was the case, you'd think he'd be more eager to explain. 

From a certain point of view. FE1 had narration to explain it's story, while FE2 was more dialogue focused. Both methods work, but the former led to a more streamlined story overall, while the latter made worldbuilding and characterization easier. They're both also flawed, however, as you have to waste a turn visiting a house in FE1 for any chance at worldbuilding outside the narriation, and very few of your units had a peronality in that game, while In Gaiden, it can be very unclear at points why you're continuing for story reasons (such as when you transition from  fighting Zofian foes to the Rigelian army), and the game fell flat on its face whenever it tried to be complex.

It's worth noting, however, that both games where early attempts at video game storytelling, and thus were hampered by hardware limitations and beginner missteps.

40 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I played Gaiden before Awakening and I still felt that way. Celica was as interesting as your average early 90s video game protagonist. She just wasn't a damsel.

Different interpretations I suppose. I personally never saw Alm as an idiot, and I got the impression that he was more pragmatic than ruthless, but was overall an average villager who answered the call to fight, although the decision to make him leader of the Deliverance never made sense to me in Gaiden. As for Celica, I think it was her unique class and less generic path that made people find her more interesting than Alm, although that doesn't automatically make her unique when compared to other video game protagonists at the time.

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1 hour ago, Modamy said:

Well he's the general of an army. He needs to be the figure that inspires his men to fight and since Alm is the type of leader to fight on the frontlines as he gives order of course he would charge head first into battle. It's not so much that he's eager to cut down some Rigelian scum as much as he does what he feels is expected of him as the leader of the Deliverance. I don't think they added anything to Alm's character in the remake that made him look bloodthirsty or even give him an actual reason to think fighting isn't the correct option.

The only thing Echoes does is send in Celica to call him a warmonger who's trying to take the Zofian throne for himself while he sits there dumbfounded at the ridiculous leap in logic she made. Overall they really did a poor job of establishing a dichotomy between Alm and Celica when it came to their methods of handling the war between Rigel and Zofia.

I didn't exactly mean it by that as in bloodthirsty and wanting to kill haha! i mean i dont think he was even like that all. Even the awakening dlc. What i mean is him being less compassionate type of character. that in the dlc is cus they just focused on that side of him. In sov i believe he is still like that but they added more character to him. He was also a kind guy even in gaiden too if you read what someone already said up there. Because sofia had the war and all that he felt like he needed to do it and the only way to stop it is fight back. Like in the dlc he isnt bloodthirsty agian he is more like if you hit me then ill hit you back. Towards his opponents i feel like he will do anything to protect the ones he loves and wont show any compassion like he said in the dlc and what seperates him from the other lords and celica. In SoV he is mostly kind to his friends, celica, etc. But i mostly see him going all in when he needs to be done and have no regrets of killing them. Well except his father and cousin for obvious reasons but that makes sense. 

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15 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

From a certain point of view. FE1 had narration to explain it's story, while FE2 was more dialogue focused. Both methods work, but the former led to a more streamlined story overall, while the latter made worldbuilding and characterization easier. They're both also flawed, however, as you have to waste a turn visiting a house in FE1 for any chance at worldbuilding outside the narriation, and very few of your units had a peronality in that game, while In Gaiden, it can be very unclear at points why you're continuing for story reasons (such as when you transition from  fighting Zofian foes to the Rigelian army), and the game fell flat on its face whenever it tried to be complex.

I'm talking more about outside of the game. I know you can only do so much on an NES, but FE1 beats it there too. Kaga does not talk about Valentia for some reason. Archanea is very fleshed out (as are his other works), it's all the more impressive when you consider its time. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I'm talking more about outside of the game. I know you can only do so much on an NES, but FE1 beats it there too. Kaga does not talk about Valentia for some reason. Archanea is very fleshed out (as are his other works), it's all the more impressive when you consider its time. 

It was probably because it was nothing more than a side story (or Gaiden, if you will) to him, and he didn't see/feel the need to expand upon its open-and-shut story and setting, especially when compared to what Marths story and the Judgral games had the potential for.

That being said, I do find it a bit odd that it's not mentioned in the Fire Emblem: TCG, or that it's barely referenced anywhere else, even if the original game was a black sheep. 

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6 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

It was probably because it was nothing more than a side story (or Gaiden, if you will) to him, and he didn't see/feel the need to expand upon its open-and-shut story and setting, especially when compared to what Marths story and the Judgral games had the potential for.

That being said, I do find it a bit odd that it's not mentioned in the Fire Emblem: TCG, or that it's barely referenced anywhere else, even if the original game was a black sheep. 

Though Valentia is a part of the greater Archanean lore, it's its own thing. It was here that gods,monsters, and the undead were introduced. It deserves an explanation. It's not like him to ignore important details.

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Urgh.

Not this line of thinking again.

I'll just say this:

The Japanese Alm was interpreted by the patch as aggressive due to nuances of the languages and the limited consensus of the community with translation.

Aka all of this is all the idea of the English community only due to the fact that they can't play and read Gaiden themselves in Japanese and had to rely on the interpretation of the translation.

Edited by shadowofchaos

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42 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I'm talking more about outside of the game. I know you can only do so much on an NES, but FE1 beats it there too. Kaga does not talk about Valentia for some reason. Archanea is very fleshed out (as are his other works), it's all the more impressive when you consider its time. 

Given how Gaiden was the ONLY story that he has little to nothing tied it to anything else of his works, it says something. 

I mean, the only tie that Gaiden has to Archanea is Camus, and even Falchion there was something that wasn't even any connection to Archanea there. Jugdral though, that had the ties all the way to the Earth Dragon Loptyr, and Naga still being the main benefactor to the people of Jugdral.

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5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Given how Gaiden was the ONLY story that he has little to nothing tied it to anything else of his works, it says something. 

I mean, the only tie that Gaiden has to Archanea is Camus, and even Falchion there was something that wasn't even any connection to Archanea there. Jugdral though, that had the ties all the way to the Earth Dragon Loptyr, and Naga still being the main benefactor to the people of Jugdral.

And the Pegasus Sisters. 

I don't know, I'll add that to the list of things to ask him about.

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Just now, Køkø said:

And the Pegasus Sisters. 

I don't know, I'll add that to the list of things to ask him about.

Right, the Pegasus Trio as well. So these four characters only. 

To be honest, making Echoes and turning Duma and Mila into Divine Dragons that were exiled by Naga, and Fachion also being Naga's gives Valentia more connection than Gaiden did.

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Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Right, the Pegasus Trio as well. So these four characters only. 

To be honest, making Echoes and turning Duma and Mila into Divine Dragons that were exiled by Naga, and Fachion also being Naga's gives Valentia more connection than Gaiden did.

It did, but it contradicts Naga's actions in Jugdral.  

26 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Urgh.

Not this line of thinking again.

I'll just say this:

The Japanese Alm was interpreted by the patch as aggressive due to nuances of the languages and the limited consensus of the community with translation.

Aka all of this is all the idea of the English community only due to the fact that they can't play and read Gaiden themselves in Japanese and had to rely on the interpretation of the translation.

I get what you're saying but I have to ask this. Do you happen to have a Japanese script for Awakening? Is Alm's portrayal the same there? If it is, why would they go with that? It's one of many of the questionable decisions Awakening makes but I want to know if there's a basis for it.

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18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Wait, how does it contradict Naga's actions again? 

Why did Naga prevent Forseti from staying in Jugdral?

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2 hours ago, Køkø said:

Why did Naga prevent Forseti from staying in Jugdral?

It isn't like she told Forseti that he HAD to come back. But she said that it was silly to stay and he complied. 

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12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is very little dialogue in Gaiden, but from what we do have, we have these lines:

Spoiler

 

Alm:
That’s no good. You can’t just tell the people of Sofia to go live under the barbarous rule of Rigel.
Seeing as how Rigel aided Dozer in ravaging the lands of Sofia, we’ve got no choice but to fight.

Alm:
What! That’s mean, Cellica. I don’t have those kinds of ambitions.
I just want to protect the people of Sofia, that’s all.
Besides, it seems that the royal family of Sofia’s only remaining princess is still alive, so I’m planning to search for her.
As soon as I find that princess, I’m returning to the village.

Alm:
Ah, Gramps — what in the world is going on!?
How could such a despicable man as Emperor Rudolf be my father!!!
That’s awful. Did you know nothing of this, Gramps!?

Mycen:
Alm. Your shock is understandable…
It’s true that you are Emperor Rudolf’s only son.
And now you have also become the only remaining heir of the royal family of Rigel.

Alm:
But why did something like this…
Why could I not avoid fighting against my own father?

Mycen:
Don’t cry, Alm…

Rudolf:
I see, so you’ve come at last…
Whatever happens now is inevitable. Shall I not witness this final battle as one of the glorious knights of Rigel?
Brave soldiers of Rigel! How admirably you have fought for me until now!
However… The time has already grown late. The fate of the Rigelian Empire has drawn to an end.
Hear me, all of you!!! This is my final request.
If I should fall, you must not interfere.
Those of you who remain should surrender like the courageous men you are.
I hear that Sofia’s young general is a man of compassion.

 

Alm:
Ah, it’ll be okay now. I’ll crush these bastards for you.

 

So to use these, only the bastard line is at all really aggressive. The rest makes Alm out to be no different from Marth, and the future Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Chrom, and Corrin. A kind young man wanting to save the world.

BORING! I say. The Awakening Einherjar had a nice idea behind it, but is unfortunately not the true original Alm.

 

 

Its more compared to Marth, that Alm is an aggressive and hotblooded protagonist.

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

It isn't like she told Forseti that he HAD to come back. But she said that it was silly to stay and he complied. 

Naga specifically forbade dragons from staying on a human continent in FE4 lore.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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