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Which Lord has the most interesting concept?

Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?  

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  1. 1. Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?



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My bias aside...

For the time, Marth had a very interesting concept. A young prince who had his world thrown upside down in the span of a few hours, exiled from his own country and forced into hiding. Kinda vaguely reminds me of King Charles II, and isn't that an image? Hahah.

Lucina, as others have stated, is very interesting.

Eliwood too, actually. He sets out looking for his father. That's it. He doesn't want glory, he wants his dad.

Robin, too, if he counts. Amnesia is great in fiction, and the fact that he is actually Grima's vessel? Oh dearie me.

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Bringing the Herons is going on a tangent. The Herons are creatures of order. They simply overpower the chaotic energies on the medallion, they're not in balance. So Mist, and Elena, being in balance has little to no relation to the Herons, because they have different situations.

And where is this said?

Besides, why do you people keep ignoring the fact that this is irrelevant to Ike since he did not inherit this power?

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9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

Well they don't quite forget it since it is brought up again when HEL has to seek help from Fergus (typo intentional).

True. Elibe was pretty hit and miss in the story department.  

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Mist could've just as easily gotten the right characteristics from her mother too.

Hmm, from her mother you say? As in inheritance? Sounds like genetics to me.

Why Elena out all of those lovely, pure, virgin nuns?

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Also, since the herons can touch the medallion as well, and they're not related to Elena or Mist, that proves that it may not in fact be genetics.

Wow. The ability that's explicitly stated to be native to the heron clan is not genetic. It also explains how a hot-head like Reyson is immune to chaos. What kind of logic is this? 

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

At least learning swordsmanship from someone makes sense and is reasonable like I said. Ike wasn't born knowing how to wield a sword as well as he does, he had to learn it.

You also seem to have missed the part where I said I agree with you on this. The fact remains that Ike has special blood, and is nobility.

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And where is this said?

Besides, why do you people keep ignoring the fact that this is irrelevant to Ike since he did not inherit this power?

I'm going to look it up, but there's no need. It was repeated stated that Herons are attuned to Order. When chaos got too strong by the end of Part 3, they fainted (same for Micaiah, who is related to herons). In Part 4 they comment how they had never felt better/stronger in the Order-filled enviroment that was Tellius post-judgement, and Reyson stated to be strong enough to cure Renning from his feral state. And he did. So it's confirm Herons don't have a balance of Order and Chaos within them. So that makes them different from Elena and Mist, who are said to be in balance.

It's not really a power, it's a state of being. And then... so what? For all we know, it could be like Lissa's situation. She didn't inherit the Mark of Naga, but her son did. Until we have some confirmation that Ike's offspring, if any, could've or not done the same,  then it's still up in the air.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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5 minutes ago, Køkø said:

You also seem to have missed the part where I said I agree with you on this. The fact remains that Ike has special blood, and is nobility.

Except he does not have special blood and is not nobility. How could he have been nobility if he had to be granted a noble title in order to be called a noble in the first place?

Look, it's obvious we're just getting nowhere here. Why not just agree to disagree?

Edited by Anacybele

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52 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Where did I say he did? It is most certainly not irrelevant, Ike has genes that are capable of staving off the will of a goddess. Pretty damn special if you ask me or anyone else without bias. 

By the greatest swordsman on the continent. Who also happens to be his father. Seems you didn't read or understand the first part.

But at the time of Ike's training, Greil had already sliced the tendons in his sword hand. Was Greil truly the greatest swordsman on the continent or the most capable sword instructor at this point? It seems to me that one would have to be able to wield a sword in order to fully teach it.

Edited by Etheus

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To anwser the question, Alm and Ike were pretty interesting in that they lived as commoners at first.

To throw in my 2 cents on this Ike debate, i'm gonna say that he wasn't born nobility but he's still got some special blood in him.

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To me Corrin's concept and origins are the most interesting and it's such a shame they executed it so poorly. Has family in 2 countries even if they aren't related, has to choose which family to fight for, child of the big bad, and their dragon heritage. Had a lot going for them yet it turned out to be one huge mess.

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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Except he does not have special blood and is not nobility. How could he have been nobility if he had to be granted a noble title in order to be called a noble in the first place? 

Is Marth not entitled to the Altean throne because his country was conquered before he could ascend? Is Seliph not entitled to the Grandbell throne because Julius ascended first? It's in his blood, he is Daein nobility by blood. His blood is special, and anyone with sense can see this.  

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Look, it's obvious we're just getting nowhere here. Why not just agree to disagree?

Sure, we can stop. You have no cogent arguments after all. 

I can agree that you're wrong, and that most people can see it. 

7 minutes ago, Etheus said:

But at the time of Ike's training, Griel had already sliced the tendons in his sword hand. Was Greil truly the greatest swordsman on the continent or the most capable sword instructor at this point? It seems to me that one would have to be able to wield a sword in order to fully teach it.

Either way, Ike and his daddy ain't toilet scrubbers. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

She didn't inherit the Mark of Naga, but her son did.

I never recruited Owain, but I thought I distinctly remember overhearing once that that was a tattoo. I could very easily be wrong though.

 

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

But at the time of Ike's training, Griel had already sliced the tendons in his sword hand. Was Greil truly the greatest swordsman on the continent or the most capable sword instructor at this point? It seems to me that one would have to be able to wield a sword in order to fully teach it.

Greil was still extremely powerful, maybe not absolutely so, but within the highest echleons:

Volke
Greil had lost his wife, and his grief was overpowering. To keep anything like that from happening again, he crippled himself. He slashed the tendons in his sword hand so that he could not wield a sword again. I took the job only because he had become someone my skill could handle. And even then, he was still far stronger than most men...
 

And if you look at his real hidden ingame stats, they're really high. If gameplay = lore sometimes, I think it is the case with Greil that he was still top of the world in power. The BK killed him, but the BK is also in the handful of elite, about Tibarn's power level, which should be a bit higher than Naesala's and comparable to Caineghis. Only Dheg should be stronger than this. End of RD Ike being stronger than at least the BK, maybe Dheg, but maybe not.

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3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never recruited Owain, but I thought I distinctly remember overhearing once that that was a tattoo. I could very easily be wrong though.

Yeah... it's not. If you want to bring Fates into this, there's the fact his daughter also got the mark.

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Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never recruited Owain, but I thought I distinctly remember overhearing once that that was a tattoo. I could very easily be wrong though.

 

Greil was still extremely powerful, maybe not absolutely so, but within the highest echleons:

Volke
Greil had lost his wife, and his grief was overpowering. To keep anything like that from happening again, he crippled himself. He slashed the tendons in his sword hand so that he could not wield a sword again. I took the job only because he had become someone my skill could handle. And even then, he was still far stronger than most men...
 

And if you look at his real hidden ingame stats, they're really high. If gameplay = lore sometimes, I think it is the case with Greil that he was still top of the world in power. The BK killed him, but the BK is also in the handful of elite, about Tibarn's power level, which should be a bit higher than Naesala's and comparable to Caineghis. Only Dheg should be stronger than this. End of RD Ike being stronger than at least the BK, maybe Dheg, but maybe not.

Deghinsea said that Ike is only a fraction of his level of power so I'm going to have to go with Deginsea being on a whole other level. Also it was said Yune is scared of Deginsea's power. Both hype and ingame stats favour Deghinsea by a large margin. Even still, Ike is extremely powerful as he's stronger than Tibarn due to Tibarn at most being able to hold of Zelgius.

Ike vs Dheginsea

Ike: Dheginsea, Dragon King. I can see you have no intention of letting us pass.
Dheginsea: I follow my goddess’ decrees. My will is unwavering.
Ike: I have no choice, then. Be on your guard.
Dheginsea: Very well, beorc general. Our blessings may be equal and opposite, but your strength is a mere fraction of mine. Show me your best!

  

Naesala vs Dheginsea

Dheginsea: Naesala, you dare challenge me?
Naesala: Heh. It’s funny you should ask that… I’m not deluded enough to think that I can beat you. The goddess herself would hesitate to fight you. But my people are frozen solid, and I have to delude myself enough to think that I can help save them.
Dheginsea: You are a true king, Naesala. I am ready when you are.
Naesala: I’ll be thrilled if I land even a single blow. I’m much better at fleeing than fighting.

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11 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Is Marth not entitled to the Altean throne because his country was conquered before he could ascend? Is Seliph not entitled to the Grandbell throne because Julius ascended first? It's in his blood, he is Daein nobility by blood. His blood is special, and anyone with sense can see this.  

Sure, we can stop. You have no cogent arguments after all. 

I can agree that you're wrong, and that most people can see it. 

Either way, Ike and his daddy ain't toilet scrubbers.

Firstly, can you not be rude? Second, I'm not necessarily wrong and my arguments have been perfectly valid. Third, Marth and Seliph were born princes. Ike was not born with any special blood.

Edited by Anacybele

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44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Why did IS choose her for a tutorial bot? Why not make it a big stupid Hector who has to educated in the very basics of FE gameplay? I'd like to know, but I don't think IS has ever explained why Lyn was created/chosen for this purpose.

I mean, say what you will about Hector, he's NOT an idiot when it comes to combat. He's just as good(In story) as the brainy Eliwood, and he managed to uncover more of Nergal's plot and backstory through combat than Eliwood does.

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15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Deghinsea said that Ike is only a fraction of his level of power so I'm going to have to go with Deginsea being on a whole other level. Also it was said Yune is scared of Deginsea's power. Both hype and ingame stats favour Deghinsea by a large margin. Even still, Ike is extremely powerful as he's stronger than Tibarn due to Tibarn at most being able to hold of Zelgius.

Ike vs Dheginsea

Ike: Dheginsea, Dragon King. I can see you have no intention of letting us pass.
Dheginsea: I follow my goddess’ decrees. My will is unwavering.
Ike: I have no choice, then. Be on your guard.
Dheginsea: Very well, beorc general. Our blessings may be equal and opposite, but your strength is a mere fraction of mine. Show me your best!

  

Naesala vs Dheginsea

Dheginsea: Naesala, you dare challenge me?
Naesala: Heh. It’s funny you should ask that… I’m not deluded enough to think that I can beat you. The goddess herself would hesitate to fight you. But my people are frozen solid, and I have to delude myself enough to think that I can help save them.
Dheginsea: You are a true king, Naesala. I am ready when you are.
Naesala: I’ll be thrilled if I land even a single blow. I’m much better at fleeing than fighting.

Even the mighty Black Dragon King of Goldoa isn't above a little trash talk. Ike is capable of beating Dheginsea 1v1, so while he's very powerful, it's well established that Ike is really high up there on the power scale.

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Firstly, can you not be rude?

Sorry if your feelings are hurt. Believe it or not, I'm actually trying to be as nice as I can to you because I'm familiar with your reputation here. 

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 Second, I'm not necessarily wrong and my arguments have been perfectly valid.

No. They haven't.

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 Third, Marth and Seliph were born princes. Ike was not born with any special blood.

Why? Because of who they're related to. It got passed down in their blood from their parents. Ike is nobility

I though you wanted to end the debate?

Edited by Køkø

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Just as a clarification, but Selph wasn't born a prince. Dierdre herself had yet to be officially declared princess since the Granvale court had yet to know who she was. At most, Seliph was simply the heir to the duchy of Chalphy. He only got declared prince once Julius was given the Loptyr Book and things went downhill for the Empire. Words spread out Seliph was also the son of Dierdre, and the firstborn to boot, and so declared prince and rightful heir. But still had to work for it.

Compared to Ike, it's the same case but in reverse.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Sorry if your feelings are hurt. Believe it or not, I'm actually trying to be as nice as I can to you because I'm familiar with your reputation here.

Could've fooled me.

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

No. They haven't.

Care to actually elaborate instead of just repeatedly just saying my arguments are basically stupid?

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Why? Because of who they're related to. It got passed down in their blood from their parents. Ike is nobility

I though you wanted to end the debate?

Their parents had noble titles. Ike's did not at the time of Ike's birth. Ike is not nobility.

Yes, I did. And I still want to. But you refused to drop it. If I just stop posting, I feel like you'll accuse me of just ignoring you, as people have done to me in the past when I just stopped responding.

Edited by Anacybele

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26 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Deghinsea said that Ike is only a fraction of his level of power so I'm going to have to go with Deginsea being on a whole other level. Also it was said Yune is scared of Deginsea's power. Both hype and ingame stats favour Deghinsea by a large margin. Even still, Ike is extremely powerful as he's stronger than Tibarn due to Tibarn at most being able to hold of Zelgius.

I'm mixed on those lines. On the one hand, Dheg might be blustering about his strength, and on the other Naesala might be complaining "Why have I been forced to fight this guy!?!" But regardless, Dheg is no joke, that is true.

As for Tibarn vs. Zelgius, the BK says in PoR he spared Ike after killing Greil because of Caineghis, and later delayed his capture of Leanne because Tibarn was around. Hence Tibarn > Zelgius after a Warp Powder use, and Caineghis ~>= Zelgius at full strength. Zelgius doesn't have to be weaker than Cain to flee from him, Cain needs to be only close enough to open the real possibility of Zelgius losing, no matter how small.

And we have no idea where Ashnard fits into this. I'd be inclined to say ~= handicapped Greil, but with little basis for it.

 

22 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I mean, say what you will about Hector, he's NOT an idiot when it comes to combat. He's just as good(In story) as the brainy Eliwood, and he managed to uncover more of Nergal's plot and backstory through combat than Eliwood does.

Actually, I'm a Hector fan, he's the only lord who I hold any particularly high regard for. I was just exploring an alternate possibility to making Lyn the teaching lord.

By the way, the only reason why the Hector Mode exclusive chapter Crazed Beast happens (the triple fort Farina), is because Hector was stupid. But the entirety of CB from a writing perspective is junk, so I ignore it. The chapter has cool gameplay though.

 

By the way, that reminds me:

Spoiler

Advance Wars Coverart.jpgBlazing Sword

Balanced red boy? Bulky blue boy? More lethe green girl (Sami has some green in her clothes)? Advisor/Tactician helping them? Both from IS?

I seriously wonder how much AW played into IS's decisions about FE7 now.

I saw the Advisor thing sooner, but did not compare the lords and Orange Star COs.

 

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Care to actually elaborate instead of just repeatedly just saying my arguments are basically stupid?

I did. Several times. They're not going through to you so I don't who's the bigger fool between the two of us.  

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Their parents had noble titles. Ike's did not at the time of Ike's birth. Ike is not nobility.

Gawain actually did not officially resign. He just disappeared one day. His title was never revoked, he was only replaced during Ashnard's reign well after Ike's birth. Even if he did resign prior, the blood is still within Ike. You have no argument.  

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Yes, I did. And I still want to. But you refused to drop it. If I just stop posting, I feel like you'll accuse me of just ignoring you, as people have done to me in the past when I just stopped responding.

So stop posting about it. I had my conclusion, you're the one who came back for more. I don't know who these "people" are, but I'm not them. If you want to stop, then stop. 

 It's just a video game, you're well within your rights to be wrong.

Edited by Køkø

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I know it's different enough for FE, but I don't find "raised as a commoner" all that interesting by itself.

So my answer is going to be Corrin, specifically from Conquest. She has a pretty secluded upbringing before eventually falling into the hands of her perceived enemy, who turn out to be her (supposedly) blood relatives. But she chooses to side with her adopted family despite the circumstances of how she got there and despite it being the more obvious 'bad' side. This could have resulted in an incredibly good, unique character. How many FE lords can you say knowingly sided with the villain?

It's just too bad it turned into such a narrative disaster.

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Despite how much he seems to be loathed around here, Sigurd has an interesting concept. Unlike the gaggle of adolescent would-be Caesars running around in the FE Lord universe, Sigurd actually demonstrates the capacity to govern. He rules *two* separate foreign countries... though one of his reigns ends disastrously. He's a hero-jock who does everything right, everything for the sake of the people he cares about, everything by the book, and he gets burned (ahem...) in the end because of it.

Seliph and Leif are also interesting concepts for the fact that they're both fugitives from birth... with Leif being a fugitive in the very country he's supposed to rule.

Lyn also has an interesting concept for reasons already mentioned. It's too bad her story development basically stops when her campaign does.

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23 minutes ago, Florete said:

I know it's different enough for FE, but I don't find "raised as a commoner" all that interesting by itself.

So my answer is going to be Corrin, specifically from Conquest. She has a pretty secluded upbringing before eventually falling into the hands of her perceived enemy, who turn out to be her (supposedly) blood relatives. But she chooses to side with her adopted family despite the circumstances of how she got there and despite it being the more obvious 'bad' side. This could have resulted in an incredibly good, unique character. How many FE lords can you say knowingly sided with the villain?

It's just too bad it turned into such a narrative disaster.

A noble being raised as a commoner is far from an interesting concept.

But Fire Emblem is so rooted in its conventions that a lord breaking norms becomes interesting. I this regard, Lyn, Alm and Ike are all more interesting on a base level than a lot of their peers, who are nobles or are obviously special from the get-go(IE Healing Hands Micaiah) all played straight who go on a hero's journey once something bad happens.

Of course, there are more straight-forward lords who are used to explore different concepts(Like the Jugdral lords), but on a very base level, yeah. Being a commoner bumps those three above the 20 other lords in the franchise.

EDIT: Now that I mention it, Micaiah can get a mention, too. She's basically Jesus. A miracle working savior who's a shining beacon of hope to her people, a threat that everyone's wary of to anybody looking from the outside.

Edited by Slumber

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Sigh. Deep down I knew this thread would be consumed by a discussion about Ike.

9 hours ago, Reality said:

Kris

He should have been written more overtly as a "secret history" type of charather, to go with the "Heroes of Light and Darkness" title. To that extent, there should have been a reason (preferrably motivational, for the sake of Marth's role) for his actions to be unrecognized despite what they would have contributed toward ending the war. In the most extreme cases, you could even imagine an underworld type of Kris being empployed or even the founding of the Assasin's group being a (narrowly avoided)stain on Arachnean History in a slightly revised version of the game.

Oh wow. You're right, Kris's concept is actually really interesting, but they blatantly ignored it throughout the entire game. Why was this seemingly important guy forgotten by history when Bord was remembered?

5 hours ago, eastcanman said:

Despite how much he seems to be loathed around here, Sigurd has an interesting concept. Unlike the gaggle of adolescent would-be Caesars running around in the FE Lord universe, Sigurd actually demonstrates the capacity to govern. He rules *two* separate foreign countries... though one of his reigns ends disastrously. He's a hero-jock who does everything right, everything for the sake of the people he cares about, everything by the book, and he gets burned (ahem...) in the end because of it.

Seliph and Leif are also interesting concepts for the fact that they're both fugitives from birth... with Leif being a fugitive in the very country he's supposed to rule.

Lyn also has an interesting concept for reasons already mentioned. It's too bad her story development basically stops when her campaign does.

Wait, wait, wait. Hold the phone. Sigird? Loathed? Who the hell hates Sigurd? I'm seriously out of touch with the fanbase if Sigurd is commonly disliked. I don't think I've ever seen someone say one bad word about him.

5 hours ago, Slumber said:

A noble being raised as a commoner is far from an interesting concept.

But Fire Emblem is so rooted in its conventions that a lord breaking norms becomes interesting. I this regard, Lyn, Alm and Ike are all more interesting on a base level than a lot of their peers, who are nobles or are obviously special from the get-go(IE Healing Hands Micaiah) all played straight who go on a hero's journey once something bad happens.

Of course, there are more straight-forward lords who are used to explore different concepts(Like the Jugdral lords), but on a very base level, yeah. Being a commoner bumps those three above the 20 other lords in the franchise.

EDIT: Now that I mention it, Micaiah can get a mention, too. She's basically Jesus. A miracle working savior who's a shining beacon of hope to her people, a threat that everyone's wary of to anybody looking from the outside.

It's kind of funny you compared Micaiah to Lyn, Alm and Ike. If you think about it, she's the most commonly raised even with her magic Jesus powers. She didn't have some like Mycen or Gwain, big respected general guys (and I'm not sure you can even call Lyn raised as a commoner, considering she was the daughter of her tribes chief, which is as noble as you'd get from Sacae). Micaiah was basically a homless street ruffian for most of her life. It doesn't get more common than that (Jesus powers aside).

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I think Corrin has the most interesting concept by far. Now we all know it turned out dreadfully but the concept of a young long having ties to both superpowers and having to make an emotional decision on who to join is still a great one. That's partly why people are so disgusted by Fates plot, its not just a bad story but the best example of wasted potential in the series. 

I hear a lot of people saying Ike but I don't think the his story is interesting per se. A boy from low birth needing to become a man as he's swept into events far bigger than himself is actually fairly standard. What sets Ike apart isn't the concept behind him but the competence in which its executed. 

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I have to agree with Corrin being the most interesting concept for a lord. His plight stood out a lot from previous characters and the excitement was plain to see during the pre-Fates hype. Course, the execution was completely bungled. Honorable mention to Micaiah, who's concept of being a protagonist from the previously antagonistic country is cool. However, I don't know how far you can go off analyzing concept alone, because it pales in comparison to execution. To steal from @Etrurian emperor, FE9 Ike's concept is pretty by-the-numbers. Hell, you can argue that his lineage has more importance than most lords plotwise (He's the son of the strongest Human in the world and the literal human embodiment of balance). But he's a good main character because he's one of the more relatable lords, expressing more personality and development than some of his predecessors. 

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