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How important is abstinence?

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4 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Honestly I don't get why teens are so into sex. Hormones, lol?  I guess its pretty common in America, but not where I live, so maybe that's why I find it odd. Sorry if I sound somewhat offensive.

 

Either way, as the previous posters mentioned, teaching safe sex is absolutely a must, otherwise the consequences likely make a teen's life extremely difficult and hard to deal with it.

Interested to know in which country you live.

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5 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

Interested to know in which country you live.

Pakistan. Teen sex (or just between an unamarried couple) is shamed and disliked. Then again, I haven't checked the amount of teen pregnancy there is in Pakistan.

 

EDIT: Okay, Googled immediately after posting. it is indeed a problem in Pakistan as well. Guess it wasn't as uncommon as I thought it was. Although most of the cases of teen pregnancy seem to happen intentionally (that is, the teens or young people are married), so its not like, accidental teen pregnancy.

Edited by Flee Fleet!

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30 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Pakistan. Teen sex (or just between an unamarried couple) is shamed and disliked. Then again, I haven't checked the amount of teen pregnancy there is in Pakistan.

 

EDIT: Okay, Googled immediately after posting. it is indeed a problem in Pakistan as well. Guess it wasn't as uncommon as I thought it was. Although most of the cases of teen pregnancy seem to happen intentionally (that is, the teens or young people are married), so its not like, accidental teen pregnancy.

Or, it's pushing marriage after accidental teen pregnancy.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Or, it's pushing marriage after accidental teen pregnancy.

Um, sorry? I didn't understand what you meant, forgive me.

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Not "teens want to marry, so they had unprotected sex and she got pregnant", but "teens had unprotected sex and she got pregnant, so they're being pressured into marriage".

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20 minutes ago, ping said:

Not "teens want to marry, so they had unprotected sex and she got pregnant", but "teens had unprotected sex and she got pregnant, so they're being pressured into marriage".

Oh, I see. Sorry I didn't understand before @Jotari.

 

I don't think that's a thing in Pakistan, because like I said before, sex between an unmarried couple is highly disliked and considered an embarrassment (to the family's name/honour) by most people, especially in most rural areas where "Western traditions" are highly discouraged. Its more like, early marriages are encouraged, specifically in rural areas.  

Then again, I'll check this whole thing to make sure that I'm not wrong.

Edited by Flee Fleet!

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1 hour ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Oh, I see. Sorry I didn't understand before @Jotari.

 

I don't think that's a thing in Pakistan, because like I said before, sex between an unmarried couple is highly disliked and considered an embarrassment (to the family's name/honour) by most people, especially in most rural areas where "Western traditions" are highly discouraged. Its more like, early marriages are encouraged, specifically in rural areas.  

Then again, I'll check this whole thing to make sure that I'm not wrong.

That just provides more reason why teenagers would get married after sex. My country used to be like that fifty years ago and it happened all the time.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That just provides more reason why teenagers would get married after sex. My country used to be like that fifty years ago and it happened all the time.

Ah, I see then. If you say so, although its mostly arranged marriages, and rural people only accept arranged marriages most of the time.

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7 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Ah, I see then. If you say so, although its mostly arranged marriages, and rural people only accept arranged marriages most of the time.

Of course, bear in mind, I know next to nothing about Packistan, just that it's pretty religious. So it's fully possible I'm being presumptuous.

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1 hour ago, Flee Fleet! said:

I don't think that's a thing in Pakistan, because like I said before, sex between an unmarried couple is highly disliked and considered an embarrassment (to the family's name/honour) by most people, especially in most rural areas where "Western traditions" are highly discouraged. Its more like, early marriages are encouraged, specifically in rural areas. 

This is also true in Kentucky. In the US.

You can legally marry in Kentucky when you're 13.

About 80% of all marriages in Kentucky involving a minor are girls who have to marry the grown-ass adult man they had sex with (or who raped them), prior to marriage and engagement.

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51 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Ah, I see then. If you say so, although its mostly arranged marriages, and rural people only accept arranged marriages most of the time.

How far ahead of time are the marriages arranged?  Like, if it's a month before, then it could very well be "girl got knocked up and is forced to marry".

12 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

This is also true in Kentucky. In the US.

You can legally marry in Kentucky when you're 13.

About 80% of all marriages in Kentucky involving a minor are girls who have to marry the grown-ass adult man they had sex with (or who raped them), prior to marriage and engagement.

This depresses me.  Marriage is a lot more than just bedroom stuffs.  But the stats from Kentucky seems to say otherwise.

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11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Of course, bear in mind, I know next to nothing about Packistan, just that it's pretty religious. So it's fully possible I'm being presumptuous.

Well, I guess religion plays a big part in why people here prefer arranged marriages. Adultery is forbidden, after all, and is considered to bring shame to a family.

 

11 hours ago, eclipse said:

How far ahead of time are the marriages arranged?  Like, if it's a month before, then it could very well be "girl got knocked up and is forced to marry".

I'm not really sure, it kind of depends. Marriages are arranged once the parents find a suitable spouse for their daughter or son and could take two or more months at least to get the marriage prepared (in the case of two of my cousins at least). Most urban arranged marriages seem to be thoroughly planned, so it usually does take some months.

As for rural....well, I'm not really sure about them, honestly, but iirc a lot of the rural people have their marriages arranged when they're still quite young, meaning that they're marriage is already planned once they mature. I'll need to check this though, I've only heard about such cases a few times/

 

15 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

You can legally marry in Kentucky when you're 13.

Its the same case in Japan. You're legal once you're 13 or above.

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On 3/11/2018 at 8:32 AM, Flee Fleet! said:

Pakistan. Teen sex (or just between an unamarried couple) is shamed and disliked.

So is there any mainstream liberal faction in Pakistan that's pissed off about that and pushing: "you know maybe we shouldn't be shaming people for premarital sex. Maybe there need to be some reforms in the way we approach this issue."

Like especially outside the more rural areas;, in the urban population center. (admittedly unfamiliar with Pakistani politics specifically; but IIRC its pretty much a universal rule of political science that in any given society urban populations tend to be more liberalized, and rural populations tend to be more conservative)
 
...Or would that be considered a radical position in your country? 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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44 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

I alo 

So is there any mainstream liberal faction in Pakistan that's pissed off about that and pushing: "you know maybe we shouldn't be shaming people for premarital sex. Maybe there need to be some reforms in the way we approach this issue."

Like especially outside the more rural areas;, in the urban population center. (admittedly unfamiliar with Pakistani politics specifically; but IIRC its pretty much a universal rule of political science that in any given society urban populations tend to be more liberalized, and rural populations tend to be more conservative)
 
...Or would that be considered a radical position in your country? 

It's very radical. A law against killing your family for "honor" was only recently passed. This is a country that beats rape victims. Anything resembling human decency would be considered radically progressive. Also, Pakistan harbored an international fugitive terrorist.

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32 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

It's very radical. A law against killing your family for "honor" was only recently passed. This is a country that beats rape victims. Anything resembling human decency would be considered radically progressive. Also, Pakistan harbored an international fugitive terrorist.

...I'd prefer not to impugn the entire country by the beliefs and practices of its most conservative elements. Pakistan produced The Kominas and The Dead Bhuttos:

Image result for kominas

...punk rock bands that use their music to shit on theocracy, authoritarianism, and conservative Pakistani stereotypes. 

No nation is completely monolithic. Even in a country as conservative as Pakistan there's a liberal youth scene.  

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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34 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

...I'd prefer not to impugn the entire country by the beliefs and practices of its most conservative elements. Pakistan produced The Kominas and The Dead Bhuttos:

Image result for kominas

...punk rock bands that use their music to shit on theocracy, authoritarianism, and conservative Pakistani stereotypes. 

No nation is completely monolithic. Even in a country as conservative as Pakistan there's a liberal youth scene.  

 

I reckon the Vatican is pretty monolithic...I mean I could be wrong, but I can't imagine a massive difference in party factions when there's only half a thousand people there and they're all bishops or guards. Failing that, there's the Sovergin Order of the Knights of Malta, which only has two official citizens. Be almost impressive if they weren't monolithic.

Edited by Jotari

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Just now, Jotari said:

I reckon the Vatican is pretty monolithic...I mean I could be wrong, but I can't imagine a massive difference in party factions when there's only half a thousand people there and they're all bishops or guards.

okay fine: "No country is completely monolithic"**

**the Vatican is technically a country. (you got me on a technicality)  

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It's pretty important to be honest, as it is by far the easiest way to not have a child too early or out of wedlock. Sex also saves a lot of grief for not getting nasty diseases and the like. I wish it was practiced a bit more.

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Abstinence seems to be more of a moral teaching, yet it's somehow considered as an alternative to safe-sex education by the more religious types when it doesn't even tackle the problem or address the same thing.

If they wanted to reduce the number of teen pregnancies truly, they would be singing the praises of safe-sex education and free contraceptives.

Edited by Tryhard

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6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

So is there any mainstream liberal faction in Pakistan that's pissed off about that and pushing: "you know maybe we shouldn't be shaming people for premarital sex. Maybe there need to be some reforms in the way we approach this issue."

There is the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a secular political party, and the Pakistan People's Party, a left wing socialist-progressive party, but iirc neither have really spoken about this issue. Then again, I don't really follow any news regarding both parties, so I'll check sometime later.

Also, regarding shaming people of premarital sex:  Its pretty much the public opinion that adultery is considered a sin and that people who perform it have no shame, so what kind of reforms would be needed to stop this issue?

 

6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:


Like especially outside the more rural areas;, in the urban population center. (admittedly unfamiliar with Pakistani politics specifically; but IIRC its pretty much a universal rule of political science that in any given society urban populations tend to be more liberalized, and rural populations tend to be more conservative)

Pretty much. While premarital sex is also disliked in the urban areas, its not as extreme as in rural areas, nor do people deal with it in an extreme way.

At the very least, "love marriages", while not as preferred as arranged marriages, are not extremely hated nor forbidden in urban areas compared to how they're viewed in most rural areas.

 

6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Or would that be considered a radical position in your country? 

In the rural areas? Yeah, I guess. Urban areas? Not so much, but I suspect that majority would still not approve of premarital sex, hence expecting people who were caught performing premarital sex to be accepted by the majority of society is uh...well, not really that high...

 

 

Also, I'll just say this again: Even though I'm from Pakistan, I'm not exactly too knowledgeable of the recent political events or anything, nor any statistics. I guess this is a good time than any other to check it....so most of my views are dependent on what I have observed from my surroundings.

 

6 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

It's very radical. A law against killing your family for "honor" was only recently passed. This is a country that beats rape victims. Anything resembling human decency would be considered radically progressive. Also, Pakistan harbored an international fugitive terrorist.

The military is mostly in power in Pakistan, iirc, and the government's already a mess considering the recent problems going on. And I'll admit that rural people are quite conservative and well, often extremist.

 

...But please, don't paint the majority of the population as people without humanity. Its really just a matter of people being aware of what they're doing is correct or not, and that mostly depends on education and upbringing, imo.

The government and military are shit for the most part, for not being able to do much positive improvements in the country.

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On 3/11/2018 at 5:47 PM, Excellen Browning said:

What percentage is teens getting married for having the sex (and getting preggers), and how much is teen girls getting married to their rapists. 

I just noticed this message now, sorry.

I couldn't find an exact statistic through Google, sorry. At best I got results about Rape or Child Marriage. I guess I could give statistics for the latter, since we're talking about premarital sex?

Edited by Flee Fleet!

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On 3/12/2018 at 3:09 PM, Tryhard said:

Abstinence seems to be more of a moral teaching, yet it's somehow considered as an alternative to safe-sex education by the more religious types when it doesn't even tackle the problem or address the same thing.

If they wanted to reduce the number of teen pregnancies truly, they would be singing the praises of safe-sex education and free contraceptives.

I don't actually consider it an alternative. Nor do I believe that most people do, bu rather, it removes the 99.99% condom statistic. Teaching people how to have safe sex is important, but simply avoiding sex in the first place is without a doubt, the best way to avoid having a child. Because let's be honest, putting a condom on isn't exactly hard.  And even when being taught about sex education, I thought the whole "how to put a condom on" part was absurd. It's akin teaching someone how to eat with their hands. 

Well to be honest, it's just a terrible idea to go around having sex so much anyways. You have to assume your partner is honest with you, and being sexually active requires more frequent trips to the doctor to ensure you didn't catch anything from potentially lying partners. If you're too active, it can also add a social stigma too.

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9 minutes ago, Augestein said:

I don't actually consider it an alternative. Nor do I believe that most people do, bu rather, it removes the 99.99% condom statistic. Teaching people how to have safe sex is important, but simply avoiding sex in the first place is without a doubt, the best way to avoid having a child. Because let's be honest, putting a condom on isn't exactly hard.  And even when being taught about sex education, I thought the whole "how to put a condom on" part was absurd. It's akin teaching someone how to eat with their hands. 

Well to be honest, it's just a terrible idea to go around having sex so much anyways. You have to assume your partner is honest with you, and being sexually active requires more frequent trips to the doctor to ensure you didn't catch anything from potentially lying partners. If you're too active, it can also add a social stigma too.

Or you can just put on the damn condom and keep your sex life mostly private, and not have to deal with the std's, pregnancies and the stigma.

Or hang out with people who are cool with you sleeping around if you have to get that out there, or it gets out there, and avoid the stigma.

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