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omegaxis1

What happened in the Original Awakening?

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Time travel. It's seriously confusing as f*ck!

Awakening did not explain to us exactly what happened in the original timeline. Only gives us the bare minimum.

However, here, I will discuss with you what I think happened in the original timeline based on the information that has been given to us by the game and other sources that I could remember from. And you guys can chime in and give me your thoughts on what might have happened.

So similar to Awakening being separated into three arcs, I'll do the same thing.

  • Plegia Arc

The biggest thing that we can draw from this is that in the original timeline, Emmeryn died at Validar's hands and the Fire Emblem was stolen. Along with that, Chrom sustained a critical injury that apparently scarred him for life.

Now due to this, it's obvious that the Plegian War lasted longer, as it was Emmeryn's sacrifice that made her a martyr and the majority of Plegians to desert en masse. But she died here and thus was no martyr.

However, I do not think that Lucina's birth was ever delayed. Rather, even with the war lasting longer, I think the birth of everyone does still happen in the proper course. So Lucina would be born around the same time as the infant Lucina in Awakening was born in.

However, with Validar possessing the Fire Emblem, he also held Argent and Sable, two of the five gemstones. He only required the remaining three, two of which were located in Valm.

  • Valm Arc

Now here's where I am making several theories that I think actually has support behind it.

See, Valm invades Ylisse after they had successfully united the continent. However, if the war with Plegia lasted longer for Ylisse, then 2 years is much too quick for Ylisse to even try to put up a response and handle it.

However, note this: Say'ri cannot support with ANYONE but Robin and Tiki in Awakening. Why is that?

Simple: Say'ri died in the original timeline.

The Yen'fey that we recruit in the final paralogues, he explains that he never joined Walhart, and this led to Say'ri's death.

However, note that Yen'fey's involvement actually plays a MAJOR role in the story. Yen'fey shows in Awakening that he was someone to be feared. In fact, many dynasts were too terrified to take on Walhart and Yen'fey when the two were working together, but the moment that Yen'fey died, all the dynasts went under Ylisse's banner.

So if Yen'fey never joined Walhart, this would obviously mean that Walhart would have to deal with a lot more resistance, which would very well slow his entire campaign down. So if Walhart eventually won and united Valm, it would have taken quite some time. And he would have ultimately claimed Vert. Yen'fey, having failed to save Say'ri, abandoned the resistance against Walhart, which led to Walhart's victory, and Yen'fey eventually ended up in the past.

To anyone that might ask why Yen'fey resisted Walhart in the first timeline, but surrendered in the Awakening timeline, I can only believe that it has to do with Emmeryn. If he got word that Emmeryn's sacrifice led to a mass desertion of the Plegian army, he intended to do something similar. Where by joining Walhart and holding as much fear and power as Walhart did, Yen'fey's death would crush much of Walhart's grip on the continent, and this would lead to the Ylissian army becoming victorious.

Anyways, original timeline had Valm have a harder time, and thus did not have as much resources as before. Ylisse likely was able to match the power enough to break in and fight back, but Basilio is ultimately killed by Walhart. Walhart ultimately claims Gules by this, thus holding two of the gemstones, and Tiki ended up also giving the Azure Gemstone to Chrom. Of course, it's debatable on whether Tiki joined in the original timeline. After all, Lucina in the chapter we see Tiki the first time implies that Lucina and Tiki never met in the original timeline, so don't think of the Future Past in here for their meeting.

Ultimately, Chrom defeats Walhart and claims the two Gemstones from him. Or what could have happened is that Validar had Excellus steal those two Gemstones for him.

  • Grimleal Arc

Given the amount of time, there likely has been a number of years that passed, either through those two wars, or other ways. Overall, the kids are all born and they have trained a bit as kids.

However, likely Validar lured Chrom and the others and ultimately attained the final Gemstone. This led for him performing an Awakening ritual to release Grima. Chrom and the others intersected him and tried to stop him. But even though they had won, it is revealed that it was too late, and Grima was unsealed, possessing Robin and striking Chrom at the spot he had been scarred, ultimately killing him.

And thus Grima was released, and the remaining parents and children ended up taking the fight, though the parents all fell one by one.

  • Robin

Biggest factor in some of these things is Robin himself. We have no idea who he was originally. His personality might in fact have been a mystery.

Robin's personality in the games is due to him lacking his memories. Without memories, he's more interactive and wanting to learn about as much he can. It's mostly a way so he can have new memories to have a sense of identity back.

However, would Robin be the same if he was with his memories intact? Maybe not. If his memories were intact, whatever happened to his past, or maybe him even being aware of his Grimleal connection, and this could make him a bit more distant with others.

Without the bonds that tied him to his friends, he would actually be more susceptible to Grima's influence, eventually making it hard for him to even try to resist Grima and thus succumbed to his influence. This one is though a lot more speculative, since we have no understanding of Robin's backstory.

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I'm wondering when everyone has time to conceive their kids in the middle of all this war and fighting though. I mean, if I was in the middle of a dangerous war and enemies could attack at any minute, the last thing I'd be worried about would be making a move on the handsome guy next to me, or taking him to bed for a romantic romp. More likely I'd be like, let's get through this war first, make sure it's safe, and then romance is fair game. I guess it could still work if there were some good sized periods of peace.

Also I thought Chrom's wound prevented him from doing any more combat after that? Like, at all?

Robin would definitely be a different person if he/she knew of his/her past with the Grimleal though.

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22 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I'm wondering when everyone has time to conceive their kids in the middle of all this war and fighting though. I mean, if I was in the middle of a dangerous war and enemies could attack at any minute, the last thing I'd be worried about would be making a move on the handsome guy next to me, or taking him to bed for a romantic romp. More likely I'd be like, let's get through this war first, make sure it's safe, and then romance is fair game. I guess it could still work if there were some good sized periods of peace.

There are possible periods of times when there wasn't war. It isn't a guarantee that they didn't have moments of respite. What we got in Awakening was the speedrun version where things happened faster via butterfly effect. 

24 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Also I thought Chrom's wound prevented him from doing any more combat after that? Like, at all?

Of course not. We clearly saw Chrom fight with Robin against Validar in the very beginning against Validar. That was the memory Robin attained from when Grima tried to invade his mind so they could merge. 

25 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Robin would definitely be a different person if he/she knew of his/her past with the Grimleal though.

Yeah, but it's questionable on whether Robin's mother would ever tell him that to begin with. After all, she stole Robin away with the sole purpose of preventing him from becoming Grima. Would be likely that she wants him to stay as far away from them as possible. 

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24 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Of course not. We clearly saw Chrom fight with Robin against Validar in the very beginning against Validar. That was the memory Robin attained from when Grima tried to invade his mind so they could merge. 

Yeah true...I never actually beat Awakening and I'm a bit rusty on the story anyway.

Quote

Yeah, but it's questionable on whether Robin's mother would ever tell him that to begin with. After all, she stole Robin away with the sole purpose of preventing him from becoming Grima. Would be likely that she wants him to stay as far away from them as possible. 

Also true. Maybe he'd (is Robin canonically male or something?) be more aggressive toward Plegia as well as being more distant toward Chrom and company, not wanting them to find out his past, and just working on what his mom told him? "That country is full of evil people who want you to be a vessel for an evil dragon god". 

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12 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Yeah true...I never actually beat Awakening and I'm a bit rusty on the story anyway.

You oughta finish it.

13 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Also true. Maybe he'd (is Robin canonically male or something?) be more aggressive toward Plegia as well as being more distant toward Chrom and company, not wanting them to find out his past, and just working on what his mom told him? "That country is full of evil people who want you to be a vessel for an evil dragon god". 

Eh, Robin is more well regarded as male than female. Just like how Corrin is now more regarded as female over male. 

And its likely that Robin knows nothing of the Grimleal. However, depending on how Robin's life went, he ended up being more distant with other people, but still had a good heart. But a heart that was not tied to other people made his heart weak. Plus, I have this headcanon that whenever Robin's emotional turmoil is at its peak, Robin draw's power from Grima himself, allowing him to use Grima's power for a moment. 

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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

And its likely that Robin knows nothing of the Grimleal. However, depending on how Robin's life went, he ended up being more distant with other people, but still had a good heart. But a heart that was not tied to other people made his heart weak. Plus, I have this headcanon that whenever Robin's emotional turmoil is at its peak, Robin draw's power from Grima himself, allowing him to use Grima's power for a moment. 

He might've asked his mom about his father or where he came from, and she'd tell him age appropriate things, but eventually when he gets old enough, probably tell him the whole story. At least I hope she would. Any decent parent would know their child deserves to know things like that if he/she wants to.

Yay for headcanons! That could not end well though. He gets too much emotional turmoil, and Grima just might take him over completely.

How do you think Morgan factors into this?

I do plan on finishing Awakening someday. But I sold Fates for cash on Ebay. Awakening is better imo.

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12 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

He might've asked his mom about his father or where he came from, and she'd tell him age appropriate things, but eventually when he gets old enough, probably tell him the whole story. At least I hope she would. Any decent parent would know their child deserves to know things like that if he/she wants to.

Yay for headcanons! That could not end well though. He gets too much emotional turmoil, and Grima just might take him over completely.

How do you think Morgan factors into this?

I do plan on finishing Awakening someday. But I sold Fates for cash on Ebay. Awakening is better imo.

We have absolutely zero information about Robin's mother, so literally anything is possible with her. She could lie to him his whole life, or she told him. 

That's the point of the original Awakening. He relied so much on Grima's power that it was slowly corrupting him without him realizing it. 

Morgan is from the Future Past DLC, another alternate timeline that either makes a 3rd or 4th timeline in Awakening. Time travel brings about confusion. However, I genuinely don't think that Morgan was ever born in the original timeline. 

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Yeah, makes sense that Morgan wouldn't exist in the original timeline, at least not as early as the other kids, because if Robin was so distant, naturally he wouldn't be too keen on romance, or if he was, not forward enough to really pursue anybody, and he wouldn't be a random hookup/one night stand guy either. Lucina would be the oldest/the one who's born first, that's pretty obvious.

Maybe if his mom lied to him his whole life he'd suspect something and try to figure it out himself? That'd be interesting...

Edited by Dragoncat

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2 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Also I thought Chrom's wound prevented him from doing any more combat after that? Like, at all?

In the original timeline, he was injured in the cutscene where Lucina stops the assassins and reveals her gender. Considering that Chrom was talking with Robin alone at the time, it could have seemed as if Robin helped in the attack somehow, building distrust with the rest of the army (but not with Chrom, who knew the truth, but he probably had a harder time trying to convince others of Robins innocence).

Anyway, interesting observation on the timeline of Awakening. I always found the game to be one of the simpler examples of time travel in fiction. Honestly the only thing that truly bothers me about the time travel is Laurent, because he arrived three years before the start of the game.

Even though I know the true reason is because all the children characters are optional and the player may not pair up Miriel, it still bothers me because I know that he's the most logical and intelligent of the child characters, and thus would probably attempt to meet up with the Shepherds as soon as he could. Sure, the many of the child characters arrived at the same time or later than Lucina did, but Laurent had 3-5 years to cock up some plan. He could also pass up the facade that he's just another scholar who want's to test out his magic, or something to that effect (speaking of which, how did Miriel join the Shepards? She's the only character I could never find a solid reason for why she joined). Instead, he's holed up in a desert, for some reason. (That being said, if he's going off on unintended misadventures that end up eating all of his time, I wouldn't be surprised. Heck, that sound's like a good idea for a small comic series that we'll never get.)

I also question why the Risen haven't appeared earlier if he arrived years earlier, though that could be solved with the simple explanation that he didn't drag any risen with him when he time traveled, unlike Lucina. It does raise questions about how the Risen spel/curse works, though as they start randomly appearing throughout the land as soon as the kids arrive back in time.

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As minor of a thing as it may seem, I have issue with the children being born supposedly being biologically identical to their future counterparts. If their conception was even slightly altered, then they would almost certainly be different biologically. Of course, it would cause problems if little Lucina didn't have the brand in her left eye, but it still shouldn't work.

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On 2/24/2018 at 9:57 PM, Hawkwing said:

Anyway, interesting observation on the timeline of Awakening. I always found the game to be one of the simpler examples of time travel in fiction. Honestly the only thing that truly bothers me about the time travel is Laurent, because he arrived three years before the start of the game.

Even though I know the true reason is because all the children characters are optional and the player may not pair up Miriel, it still bothers me because I know that he's the most logical and intelligent of the child characters, and thus would probably attempt to meet up with the Shepherds as soon as he could. Sure, the many of the child characters arrived at the same time or later than Lucina did, but Laurent had 3-5 years to cock up some plan. He could also pass up the facade that he's just another scholar who want's to test out his magic, or something to that effect (speaking of which, how did Miriel join the Shepards? She's the only character I could never find a solid reason for why she joined). Instead, he's holed up in a desert, for some reason. (That being said, if he's going off on unintended misadventures that end up eating all of his time, I wouldn't be surprised. Heck, that sound's like a good idea for a small comic series that we'll never get.)

I'll be honest, that has always bugged me for a long time. All the Awakening children apart from Lucina ever played any kind of part, which I feel is what made Awakening's story worse off. Laurent's case being that he traveled even three years earlier than Lucina, and then becoming 5 years with the 2 year timeskip we had, it makes even less sense. 

Wish they explained how they were searching for the gemstones or something, since that is the key to defeating Grima after all. 

On 2/24/2018 at 9:57 PM, Hawkwing said:

I also question why the Risen haven't appeared earlier if he arrived years earlier, though that could be solved with the simple explanation that he didn't drag any risen with him when he time traveled, unlike Lucina. It does raise questions about how the Risen spel/curse works, though as they start randomly appearing throughout the land as soon as the kids arrive back in time.

Risen actually appeared only when Grima himself arrived, shortly before Robin lost his memories. After all, Grima is the one that creates the Risen, not the Grimleal. It's likely that when the Risen entered the Outrealm gate, they ended up coming to the point when Lucina also entered. So they arrived the same time. But after they were taken out, Grima began to create new ones to come out. 

50 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

As minor of a thing as it may seem, I have issue with the children being born supposedly being biologically identical to their future counterparts. If their conception was even slightly altered, then they would almost certainly be different biologically. Of course, it would cause problems if little Lucina didn't have the brand in her left eye, but it still shouldn't work.

You mean having the same parents? Not entirely sure what you mean by that. I mean, Lucina was the only child born, but the others weren't born yet.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

You mean having the same parents? Not entirely sure what you mean by that. I mean, Lucina was the only child born, but the others weren't born yet.

If the time of conception was just a little off, then the child's genetic makeup would almost certainly be different enough that Lucina and little Lucina would be visually different. Kind of like how siblings look different despite having the same parents (identical twins still have differences like fingerprints).

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1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

If the time of conception was just a little off, then the child's genetic makeup would almost certainly be different enough that Lucina and little Lucina would be visually different. Kind of like how siblings look different despite having the same parents (identical twins still have differences like fingerprints).

Except this isn't a case of having siblings. Lucina and little Lucina are the same person. There's truly no visual different here because they are one and the same. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except this isn't a case of having siblings. Lucina and little Lucina are the same person. There's truly no visual different here because they are one and the same. 

Except, they aren't. The Plegian war changed meaning the odds that Lucina was conceived at the exact same time is entirely improbable. Just because both are a Chrom's firstborn doesn't mean they would automatically be the same. Think of it this way, if you're parents got together let's say a year earlier, odds are, they would have children that weren't you.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Except, they aren't. The Plegian war changed meaning the odds that Lucina was conceived at the exact same time is entirely improbable. Just because both are a Chrom's firstborn doesn't mean they would automatically be the same. Think of it this way, if you're parents got together let's say a year earlier, odds are, they would have children that weren't you.

Yeah, that's very questionable. Because the only way I can imagine there to be any kind of difference is if the parents changed. But Awakening treats all the children to have the same parents as the original timeline's parents. 

I honestly, feel like the first child that they got is always the same. Morgan is the only wild card because Morgan can be the second child. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, that's very questionable. Because the only way I can imagine there to be any kind of difference is if the parents changed. But Awakening treats all the children to have the same parents as the original timeline's parents. 

I honestly, feel like the first child that they got is always the same. Morgan is the only wild card because Morgan can be the second child. 

That's...not how kids work. They aren't waiting on an assembly line for their turn. 

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1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

That's...not how kids work. They aren't waiting on an assembly line for their turn. 

Well, that depends though. We're talking about how according to Lucina, time tries to restore itself after it has been disturbed. Just as Lucina avoided Emmeryn's assassination, it led to Gangrel making a personal assault, then attacking the capitol, and capturing Emmeryn. So even though time has been altered, it tries to still go by many things to correct it back to the original timeline, so it's likely that even the births of the Awakening kids are intended to be returned to how they should be. If the Awakening children were born in the original timeline as they should, then the Awakening kids will be born the same way. 

Of course, the ONLY one we have to go for here is just Lucina, the only one that was born. The others aren't born yet, so maybe those will be different.

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Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Well, that depends though. We're talking about how according to Lucina, time tries to restore itself after it has been disturbed. Just as Lucina avoided Emmeryn's assassination, it led to Gangrel making a personal assault, then attacking the capitol, and capturing Emmeryn. So even though time has been altered, it tries to still go by many things to correct it back to the original timeline, so it's likely that even the births of the Awakening kids are intended to be returned to how they should be. If the Awakening children were born in the original timeline as they should, then the Awakening kids will be born the same way. 

Of course, the ONLY one we have to go for here is just Lucina, the only one that was born. The others aren't born yet, so maybe those will be different.

Actually, Grima did work to undo what she did. The changes alone are still changes and they don't even really fit into the original Plegian war since the second one almost certainly ended much sooner. With all those changes, Chrom and [insert wife's name here] probably didn't "get it on" at the same time as they originally did. That would almost certainly change things.

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11 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Actually, Grima did work to undo what she did. The changes alone are still changes and they don't even really fit into the original Plegian war since the second one almost certainly ended much sooner. With all those changes, Chrom and [insert wife's name here] probably didn't "get it on" at the same time as they originally did. That would almost certainly change things.

The only time Grima intervened was in fact twice at best. Once with reviving Validar, and the other with bringing in the Risen for Aversa to use. But Gangrel himself launched the offensive that led to Emmeryn's capture. 

Also, it's possibly not the case. If the Plegian War did last longer, than Chrom actually would be suggested to take a wife in and the leadership role much sooner with Emmeryn gone. If anything, this could bring about him getting it on the same time as he did in the peacetime he had. Also, the Plegian war lasted longer, but never said how long it really lasted. Could have only been a year longer for all we know. 

Lucina never makes any implication that her counterpart was born in any different times. Hell, her birthday is even listed, so that's to say that Lucina in original timeline was born the same day as young Lucina.

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

The only time Grima intervened was in fact twice at best. Once with reviving Validar, and the other with bringing in the Risen for Aversa to use. But Gangrel himself launched the offensive that led to Emmeryn's capture. 

Also, it's possibly not the case. If the Plegian War did last longer, than Chrom actually would be suggested to take a wife in and the leadership role much sooner with Emmeryn gone. If anything, this could bring about him getting it on the same time as he did in the peacetime he had. Also, the Plegian war lasted longer, but never said how long it really lasted. Could have only been a year longer for all we know. 

Lucina never makes any implication that her counterpart was born in any different times. Hell, her birthday is even listed, so that's to say that Lucina in original timeline was born the same day as young Lucina.

That alone is highly unbelievable. If you were following actual logic, they would be different because the odds of conception happening exactly the same with the exact same sperm and the exact same egg are ludicrous. It's a plot hole in the game itself that they are apparently the same. They shouldn't be. Odds and genetics are against it.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

That alone is highly unbelievable. If you were following actual logic, they would be different because the odds of conception happening exactly the same with the exact same sperm and the exact same egg are ludicrous. It's a plot hole in the game itself that they are apparently the same. They shouldn't be. Odds and genetics are against it.

Wow, you really take this way too seriously. 

But honestly, I feel this is just part of the case of time travel to ensure events of the past happened. So even if you argue that genetic should be altered, the case of time trying to correct itself, thus cosmic forces that goes beyond physics, would have caused events to unfold where the exact predicaments you just said did in fact happen. 

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Wow, you really take this way too seriously. 

But honestly, I feel this is just part of the case of time travel to ensure events of the past happened. So even if you argue that genetic should be altered, the case of time trying to correct itself, thus cosmic forces that goes beyond physics, would have caused events to unfold where the exact predicaments you just said did in fact happen. 

Except, there isn't much of a case for time being some sentient entity. It kept getting changed. Emmeryn "dying" at a different time was in such radically different circumstances that it's hard to use that as justification and had Grima not stepped in with Validar, the apocalypse probably would have been stopped right then and there.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Except, there isn't much of a case for time being some sentient entity. It kept getting changed. Emmeryn "dying" at a different time was in such radically different circumstances that it's hard to use that as justification and had Grima not stepped in with Validar, the apocalypse probably would have been stopped right then and there.

As I said, Grima only intervened twice in Awakening in regards to Emmeryn. Risen, and reviving Validar. Meaning that the butterfly effect took effect, and altering the first method of Emmeryn's death only caused a new form to create Emmeryn's death, even if she didn't actually die, she was removed from the picture and believed dead as far as everyone else knew. 

And we aren't actually sure when the deed was done, for that matter. Meaning that for all we know, the influences of time occurred precisely when the original time where it happened. So Lucina was conceived the moment the original Lucina was.

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

As I said, Grima only intervened twice in Awakening in regards to Emmeryn. Risen, and reviving Validar. Meaning that the butterfly effect took effect, and altering the first method of Emmeryn's death only caused a new form to create Emmeryn's death, even if she didn't actually die, she was removed from the picture and believed dead as far as everyone else knew. 

And we aren't actually sure when the deed was done, for that matter. Meaning that for all we know, the influences of time occurred precisely when the original time where it happened. So Lucina was conceived the moment the original Lucina was.

That's a rather vague thing. She died, but not at the same time or place and it certainly did not have the same effect. It was far too different and that in turn made even more differences. For time to supposedly favor it's original course, it made very few, if any, course corrections.

Also, do you realize just how improbable that second point is?

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12 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

That's a rather vague thing. She died, but not at the same time or place and it certainly did not have the same effect. It was far too different and that in turn made even more differences. For time to supposedly favor it's original course, it made very few, if any, course corrections.

Also, do you realize just how improbable that second point is?

It was an attempt to correct the major event that shaped the future. Emmeryn's death was supposed to happen to create a causality. Even if the method was changed, the event still transpires. Basically just added new events before it. 

Improbable? You mean how it's also improbable for magical entities to suddenly open a portal through space-time and allowing time travel? Cosmic forces do not have to abide by the laws of physics that humans are bound by. If Lucina and the other children were to be birthed in the original timeline in a specific time because of how much of an effect they have, especially Lucina, then time would influence events to happen so that the birth happens precisely as such.

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