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Carreau Diamond

Is Micaiah and Sothe’s relationship romantic?

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Micaiah and Sothe’s relationship throughout the game is told to be a very strong, protective, and close one, though it’s never actually seemed very romantic to me. Not at all flirty or conventionally intimate by romantic standards. Until Micaiah and Sothe end up married in the A support ending, I never really felt THAT sort of connection from them and even then it seemed to come along so suddenly.

Also: Micaiah is stated to become Queen in the ending, though Sothe is only ever mentioned as her “husband” and “pillar of strength”, and never really King of Daein even with being married to her. Might it be fair to guess that maybe Sothe is NOT king and perhaps only Prince, leaving Miccy with all the concrete power? Might it be possible that they are only married for political reasons?

 

 

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Well Micaiah's conversation with Naesala in chapter 4-3 basically implies she has romantic feelings for Sothe. The two of them were probably too modest to engage in flirtatious behavior which is why their relationship comes off as platonic and they seemed to be hiding their feelings until part 4. 

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2 hours ago, Carreau Diamond said:

Also: Micaiah is stated to become Queen in the ending, though Sothe is only ever mentioned as her “husband” and “pillar of strength”, and never really King of Daein even with being married to her. Might it be fair to guess that maybe Sothe is NOT king and perhaps only Prince, leaving Miccy with all the concrete power? Might it be possible that they are only married for political reasons?

 

Regarding this, In the Netherlands we have a symbolic monarch without power, which is still absolutely dumb of course. The point is, I'm not sure how this works in other countries, but when the son of our previous monarch becomes king, his wife is called a queen, but when the daughter of our previous monarch becomes queen, her husband is NOT called king. I think this is because historically kings>queens but the heir to the throne should be the most important one. So perhaps that's what they went for.

I'm pretty sure their relationship is actually romantic, but Sothe wasn't named king because he shouldn't be more powerful than Micaiah, who was chosen to be their leader.

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8 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Regarding this, In the Netherlands we have a symbolic monarch without power, which is still absolutely dumb of course. The point is, I'm not sure how this works in other countries, but when the son of our previous monarch becomes king, his wife is called a queen, but when the daughter of our previous monarch becomes queen, her husband is NOT called king. I think this is because historically kings>queens but the heir to the throne should be the most important one. So perhaps that's what they went for.

I'm pretty sure their relationship is actually romantic, but Sothe wasn't named king because he shouldn't be more powerful than Micaiah, who was chosen to be their leader.

I'm pretty sure that in most countries having royal blood supersedes titles, a commoner king who married the queen would have less power than the queen of course birthrights are always a thing that needs to be taken into account so this situation implies that the previous monarch had no sons, micaiah's exploits gave her the political leverage necessary to take the throne easily especially after pellias was outed as a false king or died and daein was without a ruler, micaiah would have been the start of the royal bloodline.

of course fire emblem has little to do with real life so there is only speculation in that regard.

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I always thought Sothe became the king consort on their A Pairing ending. It's been ages since I have played FE10, though.

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Royal titles are a bit tricky, but I believe that this is how it works:

Male title: Female title: Meaning

King: Queen regnant: Monarch

Prince consort: Queen consort: Spouse of the monarch

Prince dowager: Queen dowager: Widowed spouse of a former monarch

If Micaiah becomes queen regnant, assuming that she keeps her A support with Sothe, Sothe becomes her prince consort.

I don't think there's such a thing as a "king consort," but if there is, it's most likely synonymous with "prince consort."

Edited by Paper Jam

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Honestly, I never saw them as a romantic couple, not even with the forced "hints" the game throws at you during parts 3 and 4.
For one, Micaiah is much older than he is and from what I remember of their backstory, she was basically his mother for quite some time, so him becoming her husband has always been an incredibly weird thought to me. Not to mention that they refer to each other as siblings in part 1.
Also, most of Sothe's dialogue in FE10 basically boils down to "I wanna protect Micaiah", further bringing home the notion that they aren't necessarily on equal grounds, which, to me, is a necessity for a romantic relationship to work.
It's basically the writers trying to force people into pseudo-romantic relationships where they don't belong and / or aren't needed, same with Astrid and Makalov as well as, to an extent, Geoffrey and Elincia. But it's not like this is the first time Fire Emblem has thrown something like this at us and it certainly isn't the last, either (see Corrin / Azura in Fates).

Needless to say, I never let them keep their A-support for long, since Sothe doesn't see much combat for me period and Micaiah really doesn't need it either.

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Yes, because

Spoiler

They get married at the end of 10 if they have an A rank in their pairing.

Although I will say that their "romance" is very subtle, and can be interpreted as platonic. I think this is for the better, that way the player doesn't feel bad about not supporting them and the writing won't suffer from trying to shoehorn in a dramatic romance.

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I mean.. with an A support they end up married.

At the same time they refer to each other as siblings through a large part of the game and even in Heroes Micaiah refers to Sothe as being like her brother multiple times. So I guess it's more of an interpretation thing which is honestly not that uncommon in Tellius.

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I'm not sure if it's because i already knew those two get married if they had an A support together in the end game, but because i knew that little part about their ending, i always thought of their relationship as romantic and cute.

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I think in the context of their broader characters, the way they express their feelings for each other throughout the game makes sense for what ultimately ends up being a romantic pairing.

Micaiah is shy, reserved, accustomed to emotionally disentangling herself from people and running away from deepening relationships to conceal her true heritage, and generally not very good at expressing herself romantically.

But she has these flashes throughout the story where she expresses how absolutely irreplaceable Sothe is to her and how devastated she would be if anything ever happened to him--in ways that we never really see her express for any other character. 

...Sothe for his part isn't going to say or do anything that makes Micaiah uncomfortable or lead with feelings that Micaiah herself isn't ready to express. But you see that same sentiment reciprocated from him; that Micaiah is absolutely irreplaceable to him, and that he would give up everything else + let the whole Daein war effort fall apart just to run away with her and give her a better life.

The whole age-difference thing really starts to fly out the window when you start messing with abhuman boodlines and lifespans.

Micaiah was all grown up when Sothe was a little kid and is old enough to be his mother...okay...

FLIP-SIDE: Micaiah is still going to look like a teenager when Sothe is 50.  

_______

A well written romantic pairing doesn't always have to be in-your-face, head-over-heels infatuation and sexual tension. If the characters are more reserved or more conservative, that kind of writing wouldn't even make sense.

I like the pairing and I appreciate what the writers did with it.

They could have pulled an Alm/Celica and written it as in-your-face, head-over-heels infatuation and sexual tension. It would have completely changed the characters.

They didn't. And I'm kinda glad they didn't. Its one of the things that makes the writing of the Tellius games feel more mature. 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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I read their relationship as romantic. Shoblongoo already covered most of my thoughts on the subject.

The age gap feels relatively overstated to me. Assuming Micaiah is 22-24 and Sothe is 16-17, then I've known multiple relationships involving two people at those respective ages (one in each direction gender-wise). And it's not even the largest age gap romance pushed by Radiant Dawn alone.

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On 3/3/2018 at 2:51 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Assuming Micaiah is 22-24.

Sanaki is 13 in RD. She's younger than Micaiah and has the same mother as Micaiah--the daughter(?) of the previous apostle. Unless I'm forgetting something that's all we know for sure about Micaiah's age. 

(a little bit of guesswork and head-canon in the middle--the fact that we never see Sanaki's mother, and the mother obviously wasn't assassinated with the previous apostle because she was still alive to give birth to Sanaki 10 years later, raises the very real possibility that Sanaki's mother died in childbirth. Which would be common enough for a peasant, but for a woman of such wealth and means, that would seem to indicate an incurable complication. Possibly related to getting pregnant and giving birth at a high-risk, older age) 

Assuming their mother became pregnant with Micaiah at a very young age--like as a teenager--then became pregnant with Sanaki towards the end of her fertile years.

...Micaiah could potentially be in her late 30s or even early 40s.  (We know that she's much older then she looks and aging slowly, because of her heron blood)

Based on her conversations with Sothe and Muarim in Part 1, I never imagined Micaiah as anything less than 30 years old.   

Edited by Shoblongoo

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On 3/5/2018 at 10:33 AM, Shoblongoo said:

...Micaiah could potentially be in her late 30s or even early 40s.  (We know that she's much older then she looks and aging slowly, because of her heron blood)

My speculation:

"Lekain says in the desert chapter Sanaki's older sister was assassinated at the same time as Misaha by the "Herons" aka Senate and he is barely hiding it. We don't know how old Micaiah was at the time, but since she doesn't remember the event, she must have been a baby. 0 years to 4 tops I guess. Given Sanaki was born in ~636 if we turn back the clock on her age, and then look at the assassination as happening in 625, that means Micaiah would be ~11-15 years older than her.

So Micaiah is probably somewhere between 24 and 28. This would make her the oldest lord in FE coincidentally."

 

On 3/5/2018 at 10:33 AM, Shoblongoo said:

Assuming the apostle became pregnant with Micaiah at a very young age--like as a teenager--then became pregnant with Sanaki towards the end of her fertile years.

Sanaki's mother wasn't an Apostle, either Misaha had a boy or her daughter couldn't hear the Goddess's voice. We don't know. The game does make it clear Sanaki was the next Apostle after Misaha. Sanaki couldn't hear the Goddess's voice either, but Begnion was desperate for an Apostle at that point, and it would take more time to figure out if she could hear the Goddess or not. And if she didn't, well monarchs who come to power in their infancy have the issue of escaping noble manipulation through their lives sometimes.

 

As for Micaiah and Sothe, I'm be eh on it, but after reviewing the evidence, I see the groundwork the game lays for it. So it isn't bad, nor great.

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14 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

My speculation:

"Lekain says in the desert chapter Sanaki's older sister was assassinated at the same time as Misaha by the "Herons" aka Senate and he is barely hiding it. We don't know how old Micaiah was at the time, but since she doesn't remember the event, she must have been a baby. 0 years to 4 tops I guess. Given Sanaki was born in ~636 if we turn back the clock on her age, and then look at the assassination as happening in 625, that means Micaiah would be ~11-15 years older than her.

So Micaiah is probably somewhere between 24 and 28. This would make her the oldest lord in FE coincidentally."

 

 

...if Lekain is telling the truth that something happened to Micaiah around the same time as the Serenes Massacre, and Micaiah is too young to remember it, that would indeed support her being in her mid 20s.

Lekain at this point is still spinning out enough lies that the only hard kernel of truth to be gleaned from that conversation, imo, is the fact that Sanaki had an older sister. What happened to her and when and who did it--that's all up in the air.

Lekain specifically says she was "assassinated." Micaiah is still alive. So beyond even just lying about who did--even basic information on what what happened, he's either lying or getting wrong.

If hes lying about the "who" and hes lying about the "what," I'd say he's probably also lying about the "when." 

 

14 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Sanaki's mother wasn't an Apostle, either Misaha had a boy or her daughter couldn't hear the Goddess's voice. We don't know. The game does make it clear Sanaki was the next Apostle after Misaha. Sanaki couldn't hear the Goddess's voice either, but Begnion was desperate for an Apostle at that point, and it would take more time to figure out if she could hear the Goddess or not. And if she didn't, well monarchs who come to power in their infancy have the issue of escaping noble manipulation through their lives sometimes.


...I do remember the game saying the grandmother was the last apostle before Sanaki...

I loosely use the word "apostle"  to describe Sanaki's mother, because if Sanaki is 10 years old in PoR and her grandmother was assassinated 20 years prior, then there's a 10 year gap in between where--if not a true apostle proper--someone still had to be sitting the Begnion Throne. 

...reading between the lines--the actions taken in that interim period--maybe that was the precedent for Lekain bringing a charge of "false apostle" and the charge carrying so much weight??? 

That's my own speculation though. You are correct that based on what the game explicitly tells us; is is inaccurate to call Sanaki's mother an apostle. I will edit my previous post accordingly. 

 

14 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for Micaiah and Sothe, I'm be eh on it, but after reviewing the evidence, I see the groundwork the game lays for it. 

By the Goddess; we'll make a believer out of you yet. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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From my understanding, their relationship is supposed to be like a mother-son thing. Micaiah basically raised Sothe from off the streets and as such, Sothe grew a protective attachment towards her. Them having feelings for one another comes off as incest, at least to me. 

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I got a platonic vibe from throughout and I don't think their marriage completely overrides that perspective. They're clearly the most important person in the world to each other, it's probably more "who else can I marry that my relationship with Sothe/Micaiah won't interfere with?" + "Expectations of new royalty." At any rate I don't think how they treat or feel for one another would change much after marriage or sex.

Edited by Jotari

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Edit: This got posted in the wrong thread cause my phone is retarded lol. It doesnt like this site for some reason.

Edited by Elincia

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What happened to her and when and who did it--that's all up in the air.

We know that whatever happened to Micaiah following Misaha's murder, she ended up spending her whole life (or so she thought) in Daein. And the most reasonable explanation for why she would believe that she had spent all her life in Daein was infantile amnesia prior to the move; in short, she was only a baby when she was moved from Begnion to Daein.

Yes, Sephiran can brainwash people to forget past events (as he had done to Ike), but given that Sephiran didn't even know that Micaiah was alive until much later, and certainly didn't know that she was or would be in Daein, he couldn't have done that to her.

Edited by Paper Jam

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