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How do I get my friend to stop playing FE:H

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In our hypothetical (but entirely possible) world, it will be implemented. So all you've done is avoid the question.

 

I hate suggesting videos, but I highly suggest these two recent (from last month) videos from Extra Credits:

Yes, I made an edit to my post before you replied. I guess you didn't catch it.

I'm also aware of these specific videos - at least the first one. The like:dislike ratio is quite impressive. This video explains my own opinion on the matter.

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22 minutes ago, Raven said:

The like:dislike ratio is quite impressive.

Reading comments is far more useful than looking at a binary rating system, especially when covering controversial topics.

You can at least filter out the garbage votes for both sides and hope to find some actual rebuttals or counter-rebuttals.

 

26 minutes ago, Raven said:

This video explains my own opinion on the matter.

And is also longer than both of Extra Credits's videos combined. Give me a good reason to spend nearly half an hour watching it (this is why I don't like recommending videos). The first 2 minutes contained zero content, which is a sign to me that the author could have condensed his point to a fraction of the length or gotten his point across better in writing where the reader can pace himself as slowly or quickly as he has time for.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Reading comments is far more useful than looking at a binary rating system, especially when covering controversial topics.

You can at least filter out the garbage votes for both sides and hope to find some actual rebuttals or counter-rebuttals.

 

And is also longer than both of Extra Credits's videos combined. Give me a good reason to spend nearly half an hour watching it (this is why I don't like recommending videos). The first 2 minutes contained zero content, which is a sign to me that the author could have condensed his point to a fraction of the length or gotten his point across better in writing where the reader can pace himself as slowly or quickly as he has time for.

*shug* you don't have to watch the last ~7 minutes of it, because it's to do with a competition he was hosting.

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

So on what basis should gacha games be legislated against that should allow collectable card games to go scot-free?

I'm not so familiar with TCGs and either way that's not so relevant to me. It resembles the "why do we allow the selling of alcohol if we don't allow that of hard drugs". 

Not that the TCG model is perhaps also not very ethical but despite my unfamiliarity with it, I could still note differences:

1) If I need a specific card to complete my deck/collection, I've got tools not offered by gacha games to buy that specific card. I can buy directly or trade for it.
2) I don't think cards include mechanics such as IVs, merges & skill inheritance, forcing some power players with little restraint but not necessarily the wallet to back it up, depending on the modes they play, to roll many times to get the same cards. They must go through the process of buying orbs and rely on chance. 
3) Every single new character is locked behind very small odds, which is quite unlike TCGs releasing new booster packs entirely made of new cards, only including a few that are rarer. 

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43 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

1) If I need a specific card to complete my deck/collection, I've got tools not offered by gacha games to buy that specific card. I can buy directly or trade for it.

Plenty of games that include a loot box mechanic (because that's what the gacha mechanic is) also allow for the trading of items obtained from the loot box.

Most people, in an attempt to be cynical or salty, cite revenue as the reason for many games not allowing trading. The problem with saying that is that that's not the whole picture. Trading loot box items generally only works when the items are exclusively obtainable by paying or are all sufficiently easily obtainable without paying. If players can obtain the items for free, such as in Heroes with free orbs, you run into the issue of players attempting to game the system by creating multiple accounts to obtain more free items, then trading them to their main account.

Designing a trading system for such a game is difficult to do without simultaneously making legitimate transactions difficult or restricting to the point of no longer being useful. Alternatively, they can heavily police new account creations, but that requires personnel.

For examples on every end:

  • Fire Emblem: Heroes does not have a trading system because rare drops can be obtained by rerolling new accounts, which is free.
  • Magic: The Gathering does have a trading system and would make sense to have one if identically implemented digitally because booster packs require purchase.
  • Warframe does have a trading system both because all of the loot box items are obtainable by farming in-game and because the premium currency is fully tradable in-game.

 

45 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

2) I don't think cards include mechanics such as IVs, merges & skill inheritance, forcing some power players with little restraint but not necessarily the wallet to back it up, depending on the modes they play, to roll many times to get the same cards. They must go through the process of buying orbs and rely on chance. 

Natures on characters in Heroes are pretty much separate characters that have the same appearance. If I turned Laslow into 21 different "cards" each with a different fixed nature but the same name and art, it would be indistinguishable from Laslow being able to have 21 different natures.

This is not terribly different from the Pokémon TCG which restricts decks to have a maximum of 4 cards sharing the same name regardless of its stats or effects, but can release multiple variants of characters that have different stats and attacks.

 

47 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

3) Every single new character is locked behind very small odds, which is quite unlike TCGs releasing new booster packs entirely made of new cards, only including a few that are rarer. 

Whether or not the new expansion consists entirely of new cards, once you've bought enough packs, you're bound to get dozens of copies of common cards that are worth nothing to you from a practical standpoint.

And I would argue that your 20th copy of Pikachu is worth far less from a practical standpoint than your 50th Hinata.

Furthermore, due to many collectable card games not allowing the use of cards from more than x expansions ago in official tournament play, they do re-release old cards in new expansions to prevent them from being unavailable in tournament play.

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On 3/7/2018 at 8:09 PM, lampsarecooliguess said:

Hey, so I have a friend who plays this game non stop, all the time, always on it, and he's spent at least 200 dollars on orbs at this point. He's even said he wants to stop but he just can't. Any ideas?

Fe Heroes is not crack - maybe the game is helping him somehow to stay balanced and quitting might make matters worse - probably not the answer you were looking for.

Maybe you should get him to try a different gacha game - chances are he might like it and consider fe heroes less appealing. 

Like I said before if the game makes him happy why bother. 200 bucks since the start of the game? Thats nothing as some whales might agree.

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I rarely ever comment on actual discussions but the thought that trading card games and FE Heroes are the same concept of gambling isn't really...accurate. As mentioned before, one is a physical good that can be resold while one is a digital good that cannot. Yes, if you ONLY buy booster packs you run the risk of NEVER getting a specific card just like in Heroes where you run the risk of NEVER pulling a specific character. BUT unlike Heroes there is the option to buy a specific card for a specific amount of money. Again as mentioned before, what if Heroes allowed trading? Would that then make it the same? Simply put, yes...it would then become equivalent to a trading card game because you could then get a specific unit for a specific amount (not necessarily money but it's a finite resource unlike just gambling with orbs). Yet again; however, that won't happen with the issue of people simply abusing the system and creating new accounts and rerolling for a specific unit only to trade to their main account. Here is an example since I play both Heroes AND collect Fire Emblem Cipher cards:

In Cipher, I collect all the cards in each set and all their variations (or + cards). Some + cards are INCREDIBLY expensive compared to others. I've spent around $60 for a single card (I try to have limits). While that might be "omg so expensive" to some people, I at least was able to directly obtain the card I wanted for a set price without any "gambling" involved. I paid a "premium” to ensure I got the specific item I wanted. The other argument "well when you keep buying booster packs you then get a bunch of extras"? Well I personally buy a bunch of booster boxes since I want full collections, so yes, I have a bunch of extras that aren't worth much but guess what happens to those extras? I've been able to sell them. In fact, my collection for Cipher cards is self-sustaining. For the past year, I haven't had to spend any "extra" money to purchase cards. All my purchases for specific singles AND booster boxes have come out of the money I've made on selling my extra cards. Who buys my cards? The people who only want specific cards without "gambling" on booster boxes. All of these points...are unavailable in Heroes. There are no chances for guarantees in Heroes. There are no chances to sell your extras in Heroes.

On the flip side, I really wanted Summer Leo in Heroes. I saved up around 120 orbs and didn’t pull him (wasn’t surprised that’s not too many orbs). Well, I had recently sold a bunch of Cipher cards AND had some gift cards so figured “I have the funds” and ended up buying some orbs. Well spent around $80 initially and still…no Leo. Again wasn’t too surprised but a little bummed. Ended up talking to an online friend and jokingly said I was taking donations for Leo. She ended up sending me some money, which actually triggered me to buy some additional orbs on my own. In total with the $80 I spent previously and all the money she gave to me as well, we spent over $300…did I get Summer Leo? No…I pulled: 2 Vanguard Ikes, 4 Mia, 1 Gunnthra, and 1 Summer Corrin. Now out of all those extras what can I do with them? Can I sell them like my spare Cipher cards? Nope like I said, I can’t. I can’t do anything with them other than using them for skill inheritance which doesn’t help increase my chances of getting the unit I wanted, completely unlike Cipher.

So comparing the two, I was able to spend at most $60 to get a specific card I wanted in Cipher while spending over $300 and NOT getting the ONE unit I wanted in Heroes. Which one is more gambling? Heroes hands down. If this doesn’t explain why trading card games are NOT the same type of gambling Heroes is…then I don’t know what would explain it better.

*I apologize for the wall of text but really wanted to include the examples. Also, sorry if this isn’t necessarily wanted nor cared for but it just bothers me that people are trying to compare the two as if they are the same since they really aren't.

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This will sound judgmental and perhaps it is (I'm so sorry):

What sort of puppy eyes can you make so that friends give you money (and not make you feel guilty about accepting it) so you can buy virtual currency for a predatory video game. :o

 

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4 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

I rarely ever comment on actual discussions but the thought that trading card games and FE Heroes are the same concept of gambling isn't really...accurate. As mentioned before, one is a physical good that can be resold while one is a digital good that cannot. Yes, if you ONLY buy booster packs you run the risk of NEVER getting a specific card just like in Heroes where you run the risk of NEVER pulling a specific character. BUT unlike Heroes there is the option to buy a specific card for a specific amount of money. Again as mentioned before, what if Heroes allowed trading? Would that then make it the same? Simply put, yes...it would then become equivalent to a trading card game because you could then get a specific unit for a specific amount (not necessarily money but it's a finite resource unlike just gambling with orbs). Yet again; however, that won't happen with the issue of people simply abusing the system and creating new accounts and rerolling for a specific unit only to trade to their main account. Here is an example since I play both Heroes AND collect Fire Emblem Cipher cards:

In Cipher, I collect all the cards in each set and all their variations (or + cards). Some + cards are INCREDIBLY expensive compared to others. I've spent around $60 for a single card (I try to have limits). While that might be "omg so expensive" to some people, I at least was able to directly obtain the card I wanted for a set price without any "gambling" involved. I paid a "premium” to ensure I got the specific item I wanted. The other argument "well when you keep buying booster packs you then get a bunch of extras"? Well I personally buy a bunch of booster boxes since I want full collections, so yes, I have a bunch of extras that aren't worth much but guess what happens to those extras? I've been able to sell them. In fact, my collection for Cipher cards is self-sustaining. For the past year, I haven't had to spend any "extra" money to purchase cards. All my purchases for specific singles AND booster boxes have come out of the money I've made on selling my extra cards. Who buys my cards? The people who only want specific cards without "gambling" on booster boxes. All of these points...are unavailable in Heroes. There are no chances for guarantees in Heroes. There are no chances to sell your extras in Heroes.

On the flip side, I really wanted Summer Leo in Heroes. I saved up around 120 orbs and didn’t pull him (wasn’t surprised that’s not too many orbs). Well, I had recently sold a bunch of Cipher cards AND had some gift cards so figured “I have the funds” and ended up buying some orbs. Well spent around $80 initially and still…no Leo. Again wasn’t too surprised but a little bummed. Ended up talking to an online friend and jokingly said I was taking donations for Leo. She ended up sending me some money, which actually triggered me to buy some additional orbs on my own. In total with the $80 I spent previously and all the money she gave to me as well, we spent over $300…did I get Summer Leo? No…I pulled: 2 Vanguard Ikes, 4 Mia, 1 Gunnthra, and 1 Summer Corrin. Now out of all those extras what can I do with them? Can I sell them like my spare Cipher cards? Nope like I said, I can’t. I can’t do anything with them other than using them for skill inheritance which doesn’t help increase my chances of getting the unit I wanted, completely unlike Cipher.

So comparing the two, I was able to spend at most $60 to get a specific card I wanted in Cipher while spending over $300 and NOT getting the ONE unit I wanted in Heroes. Which one is more gambling? Heroes hands down. If this doesn’t explain why trading card games are NOT the same type of gambling Heroes is…then I don’t know what would explain it better.

*I apologize for the wall of text but really wanted to include the examples. Also, sorry if this isn’t necessarily wanted nor cared for but it just bothers me that people are trying to compare the two as if they are the same since they really aren't.

Digital gatcha and cards are not the same. Your point makes it perfectly clear. However, I wonder if anyone is gonna buy those low tier card duplicates that arr common and everyone possesses. So either way you pay cash for mostly worthless items.

But why do people complain?

The game makes it clear, you have a high chance of 97% of not getting what you want. Orbs prices might be ridiculously high for some people. After a couple of weeks with this game everyone should be aware of what it is.

Most of the time you get 3* lauch units - ever wondered why the 3* pool has remained the same since launch? Or 4* launch units as this pool gets updated very, very rarely. It is designed to throw mostly unwanted stuff at you so that your satisfaction of finally getting what you want might be greater. Imagine getting that leo after a 7% pity rate and having wasted lots of cash on it - well maybe not that satisfying. But still better than getting pity broken by lets say Jacob.

We are adults, we have to make decisions and if spending money on this game was a mistake then stop it. 

Gacha games are designed to get people into spending. Thats not a new thing. If it makes people happy then why not?

 

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1 minute ago, Vince777 said:

This will sound judgmental and perhaps it is (I'm so sorry):

What sort of puppy eyes can you make so that friends give you money (and not make you feel guilty about accepting it) so you can buy virtual currency for a predatory video game. :o

 

Oh trust me I didn't really want to but she knows my PayPal since she buys Cipher cards from me (sort of ironic?) and she kept sending money as I pulled (and kept failing). It became one of those sunken costs things where we kept going...I wish we didn't go so far (essentially we would split the costs for the $40 orb pack, every time I bought one). But it is what it is. I apologized to her but she said to not worry because she just wanted to help me since we both really like Leo as a character. I actually plan on giving her some Cipher cards as compensation so I don't feel as bad. Also, she spends faaaaaaar more than $300 on getting units. She borderline whales but she just wants a full catalog in Heroes with the occasional unit that she will pull additional for +10.

Also don't know how to double quote? Because I never really interact in the forums. But @Baruch:

Ironically, most of my sales ARE lower tier cards since I sell them for so cheap and give discounts when people buy a bunch of cards. Also, if I HAD pulled Summer Leo it wouldn't have been THAT happy of a moment...would have been more like "ugh finally...." I personally get more of a rush NOT spending any money and getting a unit I wanted early on (pulled Micaiah with only 4 orbs and was flipping out while I've spent around $100 trying for normal Takumi and when he finally came home, with free orbs, I was more like "finally..." instead of the excitement I had with Micaiah).

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22 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

I rarely ever comment on actual discussions but the thought that trading card games and FE Heroes are the same concept of gambling isn't really...accurate.

TCGs and gacha games absolutely use the same concept for gambling.  The distribution model for cards/characters is identical, and the presence of a secondary market doesn't change that they are conceptually the same type of gambling, particularly from the house's point of view (in this case, IS).

The existence of a secondary market influences the frequency you need to gamble to play, not the type of gambling.  You may gamble less with a TCG than a gacha, but someone had to gamble for in order to get the card you're paying for on the secondary market.  Paying someone for their casino chips doesn't mean you're beating the house.

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8 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

TCGs and gacha games absolutely use the same concept for gambling.  The distribution model for cards/characters is identical, and the presence of a secondary market doesn't change that they are conceptually the same type of gambling, particularly from the house's point of view (in this case, IS).

The existence of a secondary market influences the frequency you need to gamble to play, not the type of gambling.  You may gamble less with a TCG than a gacha, but someone had to gamble for in order to get the card you're paying for on the secondary market.  Paying someone for their casino chips doesn't mean you're beating the house.

Technically they are the same. But a major difference is that you can sell that rare card. You cannot sell that rare perfect IV alphonse. Looking at it from a different perspective you can buy the cards you need whereas you cannot buy the unit you want.

Not that it matters to me.

On the bright side: in a trading card game you dont get cards for free (correct me if Im wrong) or free currency to buy card packs. :)

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21 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

Oh trust me I didn't really want to but she knows my PayPal since she buys Cipher cards from me (sort of ironic?) and she kept sending money as I pulled (and kept failing). It became one of those sunken costs things where we kept going...I wish we didn't go so far (essentially we would split the costs for the $40 orb pack, every time I bought one). But it is what it is. I apologized to her but she said to not worry because she just wanted to help me since we both really like Leo as a character. I actually plan on giving her some Cipher cards as compensation so I don't feel as bad. Also, she spends faaaaaaar more than $300 on getting units. She borderline whales but she just wants a full catalog in Heroes with the occasional unit that she will pull additional for +10.

Also don't know how to double quote? Because I never really interact in the forums. But @Baruch:

Ironically, most of my sales ARE lower tier cards since I sell them for so cheap and give discounts when people buy a bunch of cards. Also, if I HAD pulled Summer Leo it wouldn't have been THAT happy of a moment...would have been more like "ugh finally...." I personally get more of a rush NOT spending any money and getting a unit I wanted early on (pulled Micaiah with only 4 orbs and was flipping out while I've spent around $100 trying for normal Takumi and when he finally came home, with free orbs, I was more like "finally..." instead of the excitement I had with Micaiah).

Yeah, getting a unit after spending money is not the same. Used to spend money on this game but started over - just because f2p is more rewarding to me. When I spent money on it it felt as if I just paid for feathers.

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46 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

TCGs and gacha games absolutely use the same concept for gambling.  The distribution model for cards/characters is identical, and the presence of a secondary market doesn't change that they are conceptually the same type of gambling, particularly from the house's point of view (in this case, IS).

The existence of a secondary market influences the frequency you need to gamble to play, not the type of gambling.  You may gamble less with a TCG than a gacha, but someone had to gamble for in order to get the card you're paying for on the secondary market.  Paying someone for their casino chips doesn't mean you're beating the house.

So with trading cards you can completely avoid the "gambling" aspect but with a gacha model you cannot. THAT was what I was getting at...but again, if you cannot understand that logic I can't say much of anything else to convince or change your mind.

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7 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

So with trading cards you can completely avoid the "gambling" aspect but with a gacha model you cannot. THAT was what I was getting at...but again, if you cannot understand that logic I can't say much of anything else to convince or change your mind.

The lack of a secondary market is not universal for a gacha model. In particular, collectable card games are a gacha model that necessarily has a secondary market. There is literally no fundamental difference between an analogue collectable card game and a digital gacha game that has a secondary market implemented.

Heroes in particular lacks a secondary market. That's different than saying "gacha games lack a secondary market". We understand your logic, but you're trying to generalize from a single example.

 

In the particular case of Heroes (and many other gacha games), the trade-off is that you get free currency to buy loot boxes in exchange for not having a secondary market (or primary market) to directly buy specific items.

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22 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

So with trading cards you can completely avoid the "gambling" aspect but with a gacha model you cannot. THAT was what I was getting at...but again, if you cannot understand that logic I can't say much of anything else to convince or change your mind.

In addition to what IceDragon said above, the primary distribution method for a TCG is the same as the primary distribution method of a gacha.  Just because the secondary market allows you to bypass the gambling does not mean the gambling didn't occur.  It just means that someone else gambled, and you paid them for their risk.

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12 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The lack of a secondary market is not universal for a gacha model. In particular, collectable card games are a gacha model that necessarily has a secondary market. There is literally no fundamental difference between an analogue collectable card game and a digital gacha game that has a secondary market implemented.

Heroes in particular lacks a secondary market. That's different than saying "gacha games lack a secondary market". We understand your logic, but you're trying to generalize from a single example.

 

In the particular case of Heroes (and many other gacha games), the trade-off is that you get free currency to buy loot boxes in exchange for not having a secondary market (or primary market) to directly buy specific items.

This shall be my last response and sorry for it being so late but apologies that I'm simplifying all gacha models under Heroes but from all gacha games I've played so far and have seen...none have a secondary model (so it wasn't just a single example being generalized it was multiple but I will admit that probably didn't come across). Should also note, I don't consider loot boxes in video games the same as gacha app games...I view those as loot box models not gacha models. Because I know based on friends' experiences (that they have told me about) loot box goodies in video games can be resold back in some cases which then can be used to purchase other goodies available in those loot boxes (primarily looking at Overwatch). But to me, that business model is completely different from a gacha model since most (notice here I'm not saying all since apparently THAT was the issue) don't have that option or secondary market. (Apologies but when I first started playing gacha and experienced gacha, I literally thought that meant "no secondary market" was a part of that definition and to be honest that's still how I view it but people will have their own interpretation which will trigger conflicts in opinions.)

Also the secondary market that TCGs have IS part of the business model. You can't just ignore it and say it isn't part of the model. Hopefully we can agree that both TCGs and gacha games' primary goal is to make money? Well in TCG companies have to plan around the secondary market in their business model. The secondary market even existing will cause some potential buyers to wait and NOT buy the gambling aspect of the model which will lower direct profits for the TCG companies. For most gacha games, do companies need to do this? From what I've seen, no they don't. Now most gacha games have free currency which TCGs obviously (hopefully this is obvious) do not have. Trying to say that this counts as a trade-off for not having a secondary market...isn't a true comparison because even with the free currency you are not guaranteed to get the item you want...whereas the secondary market there is that guarantee.

You are right both have gambling at its core but that doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing about them. I love how this argument has sorta gone all over the place because it seemed to start with "why should gacha games be legislated and not trading cards?" well...I tried to explain why because the gambling aspect isn't the ONLY thing within each model. But now the argument became "both TCG and gacha apps are gambling at their core" If we really wanted to, we could start simplifying almost everything. I like to ski. While skiing I could have a terrible accident and potentially die. Well crap I guess that's gambling at its core since I'm taking a risk with my life so let's outlaw skiing! When we start to just make something simplified instead of looking at all its working parts...yeah it starts to look similar to something else...but you can't just tear away what makes it different and say "look they are similar! So if you outlaw one, you HAVE to outlaw the other!" 

Again this will be my last response and I'm expecting some comeback which I'll read but just step away since it won't get any of us anywhere. Clearly we have different view points on the matter and all of us will defend out view till the end of time (thus going nowhere). I used my logic to explain how TCGs were different from SOME gacha games (I specifically mentioned Heroes in my original post and didn't even mention "gacha" once but then someone else brought it up and I went off of their post.) This is my view and I'm sure others have similar views to it. That is all. I hope everyone has a good day and try not to let any gambling addiction drag you down (whatever it may be). 

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35 minutes ago, LunartailSteffi said:

This shall be my last response and sorry for it being so late but apologies that I'm simplifying all gacha models under Heroes but from all gacha games I've played so far and have seen...none have a secondary model (so it wasn't just a single example being generalized it was multiple but I will admit that probably didn't come across). Should also note, I don't consider loot boxes in video games the same as gacha app games...I view those as loot box models not gacha models. Because I know based on friends' experiences (that they have told me about) loot box goodies in video games can be resold back in some cases which then can be used to purchase other goodies available in those loot boxes (primarily looking at Overwatch). But to me, that business model is completely different from a gacha model since most (notice here I'm not saying all since apparently THAT was the issue) don't have that option or secondary market. (Apologies but when I first started playing gacha and experienced gacha, I literally thought that meant "no secondary market" was a part of that definition and to be honest that's still how I view it but people will have their own interpretation which will trigger conflicts in opinions.)

Also the secondary market that TCGs have IS part of the business model. You can't just ignore it and say it isn't part of the model. Hopefully we can agree that both TCGs and gacha games' primary goal is to make money? Well in TCG companies have to plan around the secondary market in their business model. The secondary market even existing will cause some potential buyers to wait and NOT buy the gambling aspect of the model which will lower direct profits for the TCG companies. For most gacha games, do companies need to do this? From what I've seen, no they don't. Now most gacha games have free currency which TCGs obviously (hopefully this is obvious) do not have. Trying to say that this counts as a trade-off for not having a secondary market...isn't a true comparison because even with the free currency you are not guaranteed to get the item you want...whereas the secondary market there is that guarantee.

You are right both have gambling at its core but that doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing about them. I love how this argument has sorta gone all over the place because it seemed to start with "why should gacha games be legislated and not trading cards?" well...I tried to explain why because the gambling aspect isn't the ONLY thing within each model. But now the argument became "both TCG and gacha apps are gambling at their core" If we really wanted to, we could start simplifying almost everything. I like to ski. While skiing I could have a terrible accident and potentially die. Well crap I guess that's gambling at its core since I'm taking a risk with my life so let's outlaw skiing! When we start to just make something simplified instead of looking at all its working parts...yeah it starts to look similar to something else...but you can't just tear away what makes it different and say "look they are similar! So if you outlaw one, you HAVE to outlaw the other!" 

Again this will be my last response and I'm expecting some comeback which I'll read but just step away since it won't get any of us anywhere. Clearly we have different view points on the matter and all of us will defend out view till the end of time (thus going nowhere). I used my logic to explain how TCGs were different from SOME gacha games (I specifically mentioned Heroes in my original post and didn't even mention "gacha" once but then someone else brought it up and I went off of their post.) This is my view and I'm sure others have similar views to it. That is all. I hope everyone has a good day and try not to let any gambling addiction drag you down (whatever it may be). 

But you have to take into account that there is always a secondary market for physical products. Digital products are somewhat different - to be honest I am not a huge fan of digital products and whenever possible buy physical video games, so I cant really say whats possible nowadays and what not - but I dont think I could sell my mp3's.

As far as legislation goes its a tough decision what aspect should or should not be legislated. Japan has taken steps in the past and banned the complete gacha model, - I also think companies are required to share pull rates and stuff but thats pretty much it. Everything else is up to the good will of a company. I never bought TGC packs but that model doesnt give you any guerantee when obtaining a pack neither will the chance rise with any consecutive pack that you open - so if it werent for the secondary market there is a chance you might never get a good card at all. 

In regard to the good will of a company I think Nintendo should tweak the pull system a little bit - horror stories like spending 200 orbs and getting 'nothing' shouldnt happen imo. There should be a guaranteed focus unit after every 100 orbs you spend and get no 5*. Another thing is totally annoying is when you pull a 3* you are bound to get a launch unit - that pool shouldnt have been neglected. Whenever they release three new units, one of them should remain 5*, one should enter the 4*-5* pool and the third should become available at 3*-4*. That way things would stay fresh - again wishful thinking. 

 

 

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@LunartailSteffi your friend sounds a lot like me, tbh. And I've been there. Last legendary banner, all I wanted was Ephraim and S!Gaius. I got Ephraim in, about, 20 orbs. Gaius? I pulled 12 copies of Fanlivia and 4 Jaffar before he came home. So now I'm trying to keep myself from dropping $100 per new banner and keep it to $100/month. Taking baby steps since I realize that I do have a compulsion problem. Heroes has been getting the brunt of it since I switched to f2p in Record Keeper now that I can, pretty much, solve all content.

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Ehh, if he has a job, friends, and is in a decent career or working at school to get a degree, who cares what he does in his spare time.  You can only be so productive.  Sure, spending on this game has a very low RoE.  I'd recommend he just stick to spending small amounts when a must-have character comes out.

That, or uninstall the game and be forced to talk about Netflix and drinking while on lunch break.

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Hey guys just an update, I talked a lot to him about it and his friends talked to him about it and he's doing a lot better. He stopped spending so much time on it, got a job, and has a girlfriend now and he's really happy, thanks for the advice / concern I really appreciate it.

 

*ps* I forgot I made this thread and I just remembered about this situation but we're all good now don't worry

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