Which Continent/World is the Strongest?

[Interdimensional Observer]

I get the sense some people want to discuss this, so I'll make a topic for it. It interests me as well.

So, assuming each continent/world (as in Ylisse and Valm- every other game focuses on one continent) is at full power, totally unified and ready to fight for years on end against all the other continents. Which world would emerge supreme? 

Villains- let us just imagine they somehow agreed to fight for their continent with the heroes, makes no sense Loptyr would join Seliph, but let us just assume he did. If he betrayed, well what would stop Nergal from then joining Jugdral and betraying Elibe? It'd all even out. Then again, maybe don't count the villains, because they can be ridiculous in terms of the tools they bring to the table and it might overwhelm everything else. 

Assume any great persons not of yore are all still alive. So Greil, Eldigan, Reinhardt, Sumeragi, and Sigurd are alive, as is Byron and Cornelius- but they don't add much though since we know so little of them. Athos and Dheginsea are, but no Anri, Heim, Harmut, or Altina.

Geography, I'm not going too make much of it since one continent conquering all the others is impossible, it'd all come down to dealing decisive blows. But geography does matter in war. Russia didn't go the way of France in WWII partly because Germany's blitzkrieg was exhausted by the sheer distance it had to cover.

 

My predictions:

Spoiler

• Archanea:
  • A second rate power in the grand scheme of things. The countries don't appear to be very big, nor is their power hyped up at all in the games. Grust and its Sable Order leads the charge under Camus's command, accompanied by (Hardin's?) Archanea and Marth's Altea. With Aurelis and the Wolfguard in recon and mobile operations accompanied by the Macedon of Michalis and Minerva with Dragoons and Whitewings, which also provides the air coverage. Gotoh's Khadein can provide magic support I guess, and Gra, Talys and Pyrathi are relative nothings here whose few soldiers don't mean much.
  • Medeus helping would mean lots of strong feral dragons at Archanea's disposal. Gharnef would require all the other continents to dedicate an R&D department to anti-Imhullu measures. With the villains, Archanea gets a big boost.
  • On geography, just for Archanea, the bad thing is that Archanea is island-heavy, which means one by one enemies could pick off all but Khadein, Aurelis and Archanea. But by the same token, amphibious landings are hell and if Archanea learned to make a strong navy that would do them very well.

 

• Valentia:
  • Rigel is supposed to be strong, and Zofia can keep the Rigelians fed and aren't too shabby overall. But overall, I think Valentia would be one of the weaker powers. What to do about Zeke by the way if he is leading Grust?
  • Adding villains doesn't add that much to them. Monsters could be very useful cannon fodder and some like Mogalls are strong, but I still don't think it'd be as much as some other villains could add. Duma is Falchion only- but other villains have similar immunities and Duma is degenerate- unlike Medeus or Gharnef.
  • Geography, well there is some easy desert to ignore, and Zofia looks very easy to conquer, but the terrain of Rigel appears to be a significant challenge.

 

• Jugdral:
  • This is the land where power levels became a thing in FE. Agustria has its Cross Knights, Kingdom of Thracia's Dragon Knights, Leonster its Lance Ritter, every Dukedom in Grannvale has Color-Ritter elite forces. Heck where it not for Issach being smashed in the offscreen Issach Campaign, there might have been an Issachan elite force, also Silesse, Verdane, and Miletos lack them that we know of, none of these being military powers. But Grannvale is defined by being a continental superpower. We also need to add in the lore of crusader descendants being demigods, since they'll be leading some of the armies I think. Overall, Jugdral stands a fair chance of being the strongest continent.
  • Villains don't add much to Jugdral though. Manfroy can manipulate in his 4 PM sleep on the oxygen tank, and the Deadlords (there would be plenty of people to turn into them) and Loptyr tome exist, but this is relatively little, and Raydrik and Veld give even less. The Loptyr Cult relies mostly on using Grannvale to rule the world- and Grannvale is already using all its forces in its regular armies.
  • Geography, you kinda need to take Grannvale, since its at the heart of the continent, but it is the strongest of countries and approaching it from the north and east barring an amphibious operation means Yied Desert, which is almost as bad. I get the sense that the border with Agustria is mountainous too. Verdane means traversing thick forests as well and SIlesse can be snowy.

 

• Elibe:
  • Well we have six-seven named elite Generals between two superpowers of Bern and Etruria. Lycia is no slouch either and has the very tactical Roy and brawling Young Hector (assume timespace distortion brought them together- just as in Jugdral). Sacae should make for amazing mobile forces, and Ilia should with its Pegasus Knights back up Bern with more air coverage. Each country is fairly large and well endowed with resources of some form. Overall, I'd expect Elibe to be in the middle of the pack.
  • Villains, Idunn can churn out War Dragons. Maybe not as strong as some other dragons, but they're a potent weapon. And Nergal can spam Morphs, which use Quintessence, which wars generate a lot of, which therefore means he could make a lot of Morphs. Maybe he could open the Dragon's Gate and control some real puppies that put Idunn's crude puppets to shame. A lot of villain power here.
  • Geography, Lycia and Etruria don't seem very defensible with easy terrain. But Bern, the Western Isles, and Ilia are all different. Sacae might be too big and too open for conquest as well.

 

• Magvel:
  • Lack of world building is painful here. Magvel has Grado with its six Gemstone Generals, and Frelia seems strong, but otherwise the continent doesn't seem very powerful. It'd probably be the first to get utterly destroyed and finish dead last.
  • This might depend on how fast Formortiis can make monsters though, since Formortiis seems powerful- a better Duma in all but weapon weakness.
  • Geography, Renais should be easy pickings, Jehanna hard, but honestly we don't know about the rest.

 

• Tellius:
  • Woo go Tellius! Note my bias here.
  • More seriously, Tellius is likely in contention for the strongest continent of all. The Laguz are described as being very strong, and Tellius alone has them (The extinct Taguels and Fates's underdeveloped Wolfskin and Kitsune just aren't the same). However, the Laguz seem to be relatively few in number, balancing their strength, for the most part. This is excluding a Goldoa that will move- Nasir says the Dragon could raze Tellius to the ground if ticked off, and they're all sane and sanity makes them stronger I'd say. Begnion is a continental superpower par excellence, Daein is militaristic, and Crimea isn't total chum. Overall, I think Tellius could turn out on top or at least die later.
  • Villains. Well Ashnard is beastly and him plus Micaiah would make Daein very powerful, and we need include the BK. But more importantly Ashera (and Yune) are crazy strong, she can petrify an entire continent. Yune flooded the world, and fighting makes Chaos and she is Chaos so she'd only grow stronger with every passing day. Ashera can also reanimate the dead like Formortiis and Duma and Grima and Anankos.
  • Geography, Crimea is being conquered quickly. Daein would be a bit harder, Gallia would need the personal services of Arvis to burn into terrain not suited for guerrilla warfare. And Begnion is big.

 

• Ylisse and Valm:
  • Walhart has a million man army, the largest ever in FE that we know of. Walhart's forces are also supposed to be very strong. Sheer numbers alone irrespective of military might could give Ylisse and Valm a chance of crushing all the others.
  • Grima could time travel (albeit only a to a parallel world and never back to the original) and can spawn Risen. His self-resurrection powers aren't relevant if he can only return in a hundred years or more, by then the great war would be won or lost.
  • Geography, sheer size is the only thing we really know of here outside of Regna Ferox being a little snowy and Plegia desert. But size matters.

 

• Fateslandia:
  • We have Nohr and we have Hoshido, plus few Tribes that can't number that many. It's a similar picture to Valentia, except Fateslandia's leaders might be a bit more exceptional. We don't really know much here. I'd put Fateslandia in the middle of the pack.
  • Anankos is why adding villains might not be such a good idea. He has the endless soulless army that Ashera, Idunn, Grima, Formortiis, and Duma have, and then adds major dimension powers on top of this. He seems a little unbeatable save for Ashera or maybe Grima. His weakness is like Duma, he is degenerate and that hinders him from bringing his abilities to full use.
  • Geography, neither country looks particularly hard to conquer. The Bottomless Canyon between them looks to be the real issue to cross.

So in the end, I'd say things would end up like this without villains:

1. Jugdral
2. Tellius
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Fateslanda
6. Archanea
7. Valentia
8. Magvel

Add villains, and things change:

1. Tellius
2. Fateslandia
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Magvel
6. Valentia
7. Jugdral
8. Archanea

Edited March 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[JimmyBeans]

Fateslandia would win because of zola and his ability to freeze entire cities and defeat the enemy by frying their brains with bad level design. Something I think that would be nice to take into account is moral and willpower, which can be connected to terrain as well given that it would suck to walk over a snowy mountain or through some swamps of the sort. An example would be Valm, in which it's massive legions of soldiers would crumble if Walmart were to die, making any successful assassination an instant war winner, and would take half of the awakening world out of the picture. The way Walhart created his army depends on his survival to function.

[Shoblongoo]

I love that we have to call Hoshido/Nohr/Valla "Fateslandia," because the writing was so fucking atrocious and the worldbuilding was so non-existent that we don't even have a name for the world where these nations reside. 

39 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So in the end, I'd say things would end up like this without villains:

1. Jugdral
2. Tellius
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Fateslanda
6. Archanea
7. Valentia
8. Magvel

Add villains, and things change:

1. Tellius
2. Fateslandia
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Magvel
6. Valentia
7. Jugdral
8. Archanea

...the Demon King didn't do anything so impressive that including villains bumps Magvel up from dead last to #5, tbh. I don't see Falchion wielders or heirs to the Crusaders with their Legendary Weapons having any trouble putting down Fomortiis.

Tellius is probably still above Jugdral even without "villains." (I wouldn't count the Goldoans as villains-per-se, but w/e)

Elibe gets a bump if you consider the entirety of the lore and not just the modern setting for the events of FE6 & FE7; the power levels from The Scouring hinted at in the tale of  "The Ending Winter" are pretty wonky, and eight (8) Athos-level beings running around is certainly a gamechanger.

Ylisse and Valm on the list kinda makes Archanea and Valentia redundant, since Ylisse and Valm are basically just those two settings combined into one with more passage of time, worldbuilding, and modern power-creep. 

Individually Archanea and Valentia are nothing impressive, but they're each a piece of what is arguably the strongest world in the series after Tellius.

(Even with the inclusion of Anankos, I'd make the case for Ylisse/Valm being above Fateslandia in overall power-level. And I'd certainly put it above Jugdral on the first list)
 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Etrurian emperor]

I think Elibe may be one of the weaker continents because of how the countries are set up. Its worth noting that Elibe only has two unified kingdoms in Bern and Etruria. Lycia, Sacea and Illia are all made up of smaller factions working together and which have their own domestic rivalries going on if Laus and the Djute clan are anything to go by. This would make unity a very lacking factor in any Elibian army.

Tellius is the opposite of this and is likely to win out because of how strong their states seem to be. Daein, Crimea and Begnion all seem very centralized and stable states and they may be the most technologically advanced of the continents. Tellius has inventions like warp staves and feral drugs and their castles seems to be bigger then their GBA counterparts(though that may just be the better graphics). The Laguz are depicted as incredibly powerful which adds more strength to Tellius. Their dragons especially are likely to give them a lot of power. The youngest of the bunch can destroy a castle and the strongest is enough to intimidate a goddess. 

I'm going to assume Magvel is the weakest continent. It may be the lack of world building but none of the countries the twins go to ever feel very big or powerful. Grado, their strongest nation also fares particularly poorly compared to their peers. They fall relatively quickly and by the hand of a lord who barely has any resources to speak of. Ike topples Dain with Begnion and Galia, Roy has Etruria and Lycia but Ephraim topples Grado without even taking his own country back. Its just him, his team and presumably a limited supply of mooks from Frelia which is hardly depicted as a strong country. 

Jugdral has the advantage of having the most legendary weapons and those weapons being the most powerful ones. On the other hand they don't strike me as a particularly united bunch. The individual castles all look like they got a good deal of autonomy from their respective kings. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Shoblongoo]

Something to consider for the Ylissean/Valm setting is that Awakening gave us a hard number for the size of Walhart's army at the height of his conquest; he was said to command over one million men.

Which in a medieval warfare setting with pre-industrial city sizes and population levels is...an absolutely absurd number...

To put that number into perspective; at the height of the continent spanning war on Tellius, the Laguz Alliance was freaking out when the Begnion Central Army showed up with something like 50,000 soldiers. 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So in the end, I'd say things would end up like this without villains:

1. Jugdral
2. Tellius
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Fateslanda
6. Archanea
7. Valentia
8. Magvel

Add villains, and things change:

1. Tellius
2. Fateslandia
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Magvel
6. Valentia
7. Jugdral
8. Archanea

Funny thing here. You're actually underestimating Archanea a lot. Archanea is the only continent that went through wars that ended up with them fighting DRAGONS. The case of Tellius is that the entire population of Goldoa in Tellius is in fact not that high at all. They are powerful sure, but they are by no means that high in number, and by the end of it, the Tellius army ended up having a vast majority in advantage and plenty of power that had been boosted by Yune herself. Meanwhile, Archaneans fought degenerated dragons, dragons that succumbed to the madness of their own power that they grew even stronger as a result, and the Archaneans had no handicap for them. Hell, in New Mystery, the Dragon's tower was a place that was FULL of dragons in every chapter, and many more were coming, even stronger than the last. 

The dragons of Archanea have been well regarded for their incredible might and power. Hell, one single Earth Dragon managing to possess a human to Jugdral resulted in them conquering the entire continent. Medeus conquered the continent as well with his Manaketes. And he himself singlehandedly wiped out an entire army.

Camus is so strong that Medeus commended how strong he was given that Camus just ended up wiping out an entire battalion of Dolhr forces and a Fire Dragon Manakete. Medeus says that Camus' strength is similar to that of Anri, and Marth was able to fight and defeat him as well. 

To truly be able to understand how strong the villain dragons are, we have to really examine them, and the power ceiling of dragons is... Naga. 

Naga is heralded as the strongest dragon in Archanea, and she proves this incredible power time and time again. Forseti explains that even with the powers of the other Jugdral weapons that held the power of the dragons, they would still need Naga's power to defeat him, as Naga is the only being that can defeat Loptyr. Gotoh mentions twice how without Falchion, there is no hope of defeating Medeus. Hell, the Shield of Seals is vital here as well since without it, the Earth Dragons would wake and would destroy the entire continent.

Grima is so incredibly powerful that he was the only entity that could ever boast to have KILLED Naga. Though the death he gave Naga may have been only temporary, as I theorize that Naga's quintessence has merged with the land and thus so long as the world is alive, Naga can keep on creating new vessels to return after sufficient time has passed. Even Anankos, who has shown incredible feats of power, remarks that he is in awe that Naga could actually be so strong as to warp the fabric of space and time to send so many people, when Anankos can barely manage something like that himself. It may be possible that Naga could also heal the land, but she may have spent herself more on trying to return them back in time, and being only in astral form, it may limit to how much power she can give out as often. Anankos seemed to show that he was as big as Grima, but he really isn't. Anankos showed to only be about as large as a castle. Grima DWARFS the Ylisstol castle clearly. 

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Jugdral has the advantage of having the most legendary weapons and those weapons being the most powerful ones. On the other hand they don't strike me as a particularly united bunch. The individual castles all look like they got a good deal of autonomy from their respective kings. 

Interestingly enough, they may have the most weapons, but I actually think that Archanea can fight back still very well. Falchion and Aura are stated to be similar to the Jugdral weapons, made with dragonstones that give the wielder a boost in power. Not to mention, the three Regalia are implied to also be draconic in origins. Gradivus looks suspiciously close to appearance of both Gae Bolg and Gungnir.

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

Something to consider for the Ylissean/Valm setting is that Awakening gave us a hard number for the size of Walhart's army at the height of his conquest; he was said to command over one million men.

Which in a medieval warfare setting with pre-industrial city sizes and population levels is...an absolutely absurd number...

To put that number into perspective; at the height of the continent spanning war on Tellius, the Laguz Alliance was freaking out when the Begnion Central Army showed up with something like 50,000 soldiers. 

The only reason that Ylisse even won that war was because Yen'fey purposefully let himself be killed by Chrom and Say'ri, because Yen'fey holds half the fear that the Valm Empire gives, and him dying resulted in all the other dynasts rallying behind Chrom. 

[Shoblongoo]

24 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yen'fey purposefully let himself be killed by Chrom and Say'ri, because Yen'fey holds half the fear that the Valm Empire gives, and him dying resulted in all the other dynasts rallying behind Chrom. 

...beyond that...

The only reason Valm lost the war was because Walhardt had a skrimir-like mindset of strategy-be-damned; I will personally take to the field and meet all challengers. 

...never mind that the only thing keeping an army of that size and fragmentation together is Walhardt himself, and if Walhardt falls the whole thing breaks apart .
...never mind that he's putting himself at risk of falling by taking to the front.
...never mind that with the sheer size of his army he should be able to overrun any enemy position without exposing himself to any real harm.

If Walhardt hadn't behaved stupidly and decided that he absolutely needed to face Chrom head-on to determine who was more worthy of being the true conqueror, and had just tactically utilized the manpower and resources at his disposal...

...Chrom's entire army would be dead-and-buried at first landing in Valm Harbor.

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

...beyond that...

The only reason Valm lost the war was because Walhardt had a skrimir-like mindset of strategy-be-damned; I will personally take to the field and meet all challengers. 

...never mind that the only thing keeping an army of that size together is Walhardt himself, and if Walhardt falls the whole damn thing brings down.
...never mind that he's putting himself at risk of falling by taking to the front.
...never mind that with the sheer size of his army he should be able to overrun any enemy position without ever exposing himself to any real harm.

If Walhardt hadn't behaved stupidly and decided that he absolutely needed to face Chrom head-on to determine who was more worthy of being the true conqueror and had just tactically utilized the means at his disposal...

...Chrom's entire army would be dead-and-buried at first landing in Valm Harbor.
 

You're completely forgetting something here. How do you think Walhart commands such respect and loyalty that resulted in a million men? It was even stated by Pheros that Walhart imposes such a powerful force to others that one cannot help but admire it. It was that juggernaut mindset that truly is what made his forces so strong. Rather than looking at this from the surface, actually dig a bit deeper into why he was able to exercise such power in the first place. 

He was the one that led his small nation to unite the continent. He did succeed in the end. Plus, he was not the tactician, Excellus was, and he was a sadist more that grew overconfident that he was all that. 

[Shoblongoo]

12 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You're completely forgetting something here. How do you think Walhart commands such respect and loyalty that resulted in a million men? It was even stated by Pheros that Walhart imposes such a powerful force to others that one cannot help but admire it. It was that juggernaut mindset that truly is what made his forces so strong. Rather than looking at this from the surface, actually dig a bit deeper into why he was able to exercise such power in the first place. 

He was the one that led his small nation to unite the continent. He did succeed in the end. Plus, he was not the tactician, Excellus was, and he was a sadist more that grew overconfident that he was all that. 

There's a time-and-place to be a juggernaut, and a time-and-place to get tactical. 

Excellus was a glorified court jester. 
 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So in the end, I'd say things would end up like this without villains:

1. Jugdral
2. Tellius
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Fateslanda
6. Archanea
7. Valentia
8. Magvel

Add villains, and things change:

1. Tellius
2. Fateslandia
3. Ylisse and Valm
4. Elibe
5. Magvel
6. Valentia
7. Jugdral
8. Archanea

Not counting villains, i'd actually place Fateslandia at #1 The reason is that Fateslandia, like Jugdral, has superhumans on their sides thanks to Dragon Veins, something that's been shown to have some real crazy effects. Geography doesn't matter when you can terraform the land itself to your advantage and that's just one of the many things Dragon Veins can do. Against Jugdral's Holy Blood superhumans, Fateslandia Dragon Vein users can weaken their abilities. Add in villains and Fateslandia still wins but it'd be tied with Tellius in this case because Anankos and Ashera are essentially Gods. The only thing truly holding Anankos back is that he's not a full power.

45 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Funny thing here. You're actually underestimating Archanea a lot. Archanea is the only continent that went through wars that ended up with them fighting DRAGONS.

Yeah, let's just forget that Elibe exists. I'd mention Fateslandia too but there's barely any info on the First Dragons War.  

47 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

To truly be able to understand how strong the villain dragons are, we have to really examine them, and the power ceiling of dragons is... Naga. 

I know you're specifically talking about Archanea but the actual power ceiling of dragons is actually Anankos. Naga's very powerful, powerful enough to manipulate time and space. Anankos has been shown to that and much more.....and that's just when he split into two beings, the Heart and the Degenerated Dragon. 

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

There's a time-and-place to be a juggernaut, and a time-and-place to get tactical. 

Excellus was a glorified court jester. 

It was stated by Chrom that Walhart is someone that doesn't truly stop and worry about the consequences. He shows absolute power to best his opponents. Even as far as tactics goes, him and Yen'fey actually were strategically sound and could have annihilated the Ylissian army if they wanted to. But Robin's quick thinking to escape, send most forces to hold off Walhart's forces and then the remaining take on Yen'fey's forces is what helped them turn the tides.

Actually, Walhart wanting to crush the Ylissian army through a head-on strike may in fact have been his method of wanting to show that Yen'fey was not the one that should be feared by any means, but Walhart. Could have been Walhart's understanding that Yen'fey's death would result in the other dynasts likely ready to rally under Chrom.

[Shoblongoo]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It was stated by Chrom that Walhart is someone that doesn't truly stop and worry about the consequences. He shows absolute power to best his opponents. 

...and look at where that got him...

[omegaxis1]

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Not counting villains, i'd actually place Fateslandia at #1 The reason is that Fateslandia, like Jugdral, has superhumans on their sides thanks to Dragon Veins, something that's been shown to have some real crazy effects. Geography doesn't matter when you can terraform the land itself to your advantage and that's just one of the many things Dragon Veins can do. Against Jugdral's Holy Blood superhumans, Fateslandia Dragon Vein users can weaken their abilities. Add in villains and Fateslandia still wins but it'd be tied with Tellius in this case because Anankos and Ashera are essentially Gods. The only thing truly holding Anankos back is that he's not a full power.

To be honest, the use of Dragon Veins never made any sense most of the time. Plus, even if they use that, the Geosphere can actually terraform as well, so if Gotoh is on the Archanean's side, or any powerful magic user, they could easily create a magic tome to counteract the dragon vein. It's unsure how and if dragon veins could even work in here for them. Not to mention, if all it takes it blood of a First Dragon, this easily means blood from the royals would suffice as well, so they could actually reproduce the results there as well. 

Anankos is at full power in Valla. And even then, I have no doubt that Grima and Naga can easily defeat him. 

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, let's just forget that Elibe exists. I'd mention Fateslandia too but there's barely any info on the First Dragons War.  

First Dragons war only had 12 dragons in total. No other dragons exists. And only 4 dragons really mattered. 

Elibean dragons I actually feel may in fact be WEAKER than Archanean Dragons. The Scouring had stated that even before the Legendary Weapons were created, the humans were defeating the dragons because there were too many humans that they needed to produce War Dragons from a transformed Divine Dragon to win. Archanean humans were driven to near extinction when their dragons degenerated. So its actually questionable on whether the Elibe dragons were as powerful. 

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I know you're specifically talking about Archanea but the actual power ceiling of dragons is actually Anankos. Naga's very powerful, powerful enough to manipulate time and space. Anankos has been shown to that and much more.....and that's just when he split into two beings, the Heart and the Degenerated Dragon. 

Until Anankos mentioned that he is in absolute awe at how Naga can manipulate space-time, violating a taboo to such a great extent. And Anankos already has an understanding on how powerful he is because he retains all of his memories, so him saying that by all means indicates that Naga may in fact be more powerful. In fact, Naga is in astral form when we see her in Awakening. Meaning that she shouldn't be able to unleash her full power since, but Falchion when blessed by her power is said to rival her own, and that is only enough to seal Grima, not kill. 

So no, I don't think that Anankos is stronger. I feel he is the most overhyped villain to try and act like he's stronger, but he isn't. 

-

My personal belief is that Ashunera is the most powerful entity in the FE universe. However, I think Naga can actually rival Ashera and Yune individually, since they only at best hold half of Ashunera's power. 

10 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

...and look at where that got him...

Indeed. He did lose in the end. However, the fact remains is that Walhart doesn't want to just win in simple tactics. He wants to ensure that he rules the hearts of men as well. He wants to make sure that they all understand that his strength is unrivaled and he surpasses the gods.

If he had won using tactics, he would no doubt expect even more uprisings and rebellions. It would keep coming. But if he truly displayed his might, he would rule unchallenged, as everyone would view him as the strongest.

I believe Chrom even admits that Walhart is stronger than him, but it's because Chrom learned to rely on others that he could defeat Walhart. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by omegaxis1

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...the Demon King didn't do anything so impressive that including villains bumps Magvel up from dead last to #5, tbh. I don't see Falchion wielders or heirs to the Crusaders with their Legendary Weapons having any trouble putting down Fomortiis.

Well the ability to spawn endless demon legions is my logic for the boost. Jugdral doesn't get a source of endless fodder and numbers can matter. It is one of the issues of letting villains in.

3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Tellius is probably still above Jugdral even without "villains." (I wouldn't count the Goldoans as villains-per-se, but w/e)

I didn't count Goldoa as villains, but I'm probably underplaying them. I put Jugdral on top partly not wanting to be called a biased Tellius fan, but I guess it is only fair if it is the strongest. Which it sure seems to be.

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

To put that number into perspective; at the height of the continent spanning war on Tellius, the Laguz Alliance was freaking out when the Begnion Central Army showed up with something like 50,000 soldiers.

Ranulf says this in 3-13:

Ranulf:
“Ten thousand? They aren’t really going to try to fight us with only ten thousand men, are they?”

Skrimir:
“What are they thinking? It’d be suicide! Even if they matched our numbers, the difference in fighting ability is as clear as day. Laguz and Beorc fighting one on one… I don’t need to tell you who’s going to win.”

and Ike in the Japan only Extended Script says this in the same chapter:

Ike:
“Elincia… We’ve almost exhausted the 5000 soldiers we borrowed from Crimea… I’m sorry.”

Micaiah's Daein is restricted by the fact it really should still be in the recovery process from 3 years of occupied peace after bloody defeat in the Mad King's War, but after some clashing with the Laguz Alliance, is still able to muster 10000, a number Ranulf calls small. So Daein must be capable of drawing up much more than that.

Also, this happens after the Begnion forces of the Laguz Alliance and Elincia's loan had been wrecked by the oil ambush in 3-12, so the Laguz Alliance must have had a lot more. I think it is said that about half of the Begnion Central Army defects to Sanaki's side, which should be big, and which we don't actually get hard numbers on I think unless they're in the Japanese (we need all of the Extended Script translated). At the present moment of 3-13, the Laguz Alliance is more than 10000 Laguz strong.

For Elincia's army. This "borrowing" was obviously not all of Crimea's might, not a token force, but not a Crimean Grande Armée. Considering this and adding in Daein's potential output and Begnions, which given its superpower reputation should be able to at least equal Crimea's and Daein's combined outputs, maybe in an ideal year the Beorc of Tellius could muster 15000-200000 troops at maximum? We don't know enough to say. But that'd still be no more than a fifth of Valm's total, and that is excluding Ylisse support. 

 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Funny thing here. You're actually underestimating Archanea a lot. Archanea is the only continent that went through wars that ended up with them fighting DRAGONS. The case of Tellius is that the entire population of Goldoa in Tellius is in fact not that high at all. They are powerful sure, but they are by no means that high in number, and by the end of it, the Tellius army ended up having a vast majority in advantage and plenty of power that had been boosted by Yune herself. Meanwhile, Archaneans fought degenerated dragons, dragons that succumbed to the madness of their own power that they grew even stronger as a result, and the Archaneans had no handicap for them. Hell, in New Mystery, the Dragon's tower was a place that was FULL of dragons in every chapter, and many more were coming, even stronger than the last. 

I haven't played Mystery in any capacity yet, but looking at Archanea's fighting of dragons. We have 1 in Chapter 7 Mystery, hordes in Anri's Way- but those dragons weren't really being used for war then and there, nor was Marth's crew intentionally wanting to fight them. Chapter 20 has one Earth Dragon, the finale is cock full of dragons you have to foght, but that is the end of things in the War of the Heroes. The War of the Shadows features King Mannu, the boss of Linde's chapter, a couple defending Castle Altea, and then a bunch in the penultimate and ultimate battles. More than the Tellius battles against dragons excluding Anri's Way, but not that much more, and almost always at the end, when the heroes are at the top of their game. 

You also ignore degeneracy making dragons a little braindead and the fact that when Laguz get caught up in the heat of battle, they're really monstrous, Dragon Laguz included. Ranulf says he might not be able to reign in his men if they see Micaiah at one point. And Nasir says the Dragon Laguz in their entire can destroy Tellius, they'd be practically speaking, feral, and you can drug them too. The degenerating Archanean dragons on the other hand would have a harder time making rational decisions on the battlefield, Goldoans have the option of going mad- do the Archaneans?

You also ignored Dheginsea having very powerful Ashera blessings which likely applied to all of Goldoa's forces in 4-3 to a lesser extent, counterbalancing Yune's blessings on the heroes.

And lastly, one of the issues of Archanean dragon decline was a declining birthrate. I don't think there are that many sane Manaketes left by the time of Shadow Dragon. If Medeus had larger Manakete forces, why didn't he roll them out sooner? If the "humans" fought in a small handful of SD fights with the label Dolhr (I there is C12, 17, 24 and Final I think- the first two fights only happen because Grust failed to protect the castles on the outside) were Manaketes without stones, well why did the proud Medeus have them abandon them? The Dragon Laguz and Manaketes of other games seem to be just as powerful. They seem to lack the magical knowhow of Naga, but that is what Ashunera and the Herons are for.

 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

He was the one that led his small nation to unite the continent. He did succeed in the end. Plus, he was not the tactician, Excellus was, and he was a sadist more that grew overconfident that he was all that. 

Except these southern dynasts we never see did defect after Walhart's first battle defeat- no true loyalty there. And we're never told in the Character Endings what happened to Valm after the war, whether it remained united or not.

Walhart did bring everyone together via force, which sometimes pans out. Shi Huangdi's short-lived Qin Dynasty created a single China- but perhaps only because the more peaceful and less mercurial Han Dynasty ruled for 400 years afterwards. Nobunaga's effort to reunite Japan paid off, after Hideyoshi picked up the pieces and then Ieyasu stole it from his newborn son. And Japan had a long history of being one beforehand and still one in theory, which Valm sort of has with Alm and Celica's 1000 years dead One Kingdom.

Now Walhart's real ancestor Walexander the Great on the other hand had his empire fall apart after he died. The Roman Empire, which lasted far far longer than AtG's and the Qin, never truly existed again once it fell to pieces. Nor did the USSR hold together, nor the British Empire, nor the classical Mauryas and Guptas of India's history. 

Walhart's Valmese Empire has existed for how long? I wouldn't say more than 20 or 30 at most years. Did Walhart do enough to keep things together with his death? You'd need to do a whole lot for that to happen. And given the southern dynasts if Say'ri and Yen'fay are anything to go by seem Korean(?) to Walhart's and Virion's European, Valm's cultures must be very distinct, and I would hence find it difficult to integrate them as one nation.

 

58 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Excellus was a glorified court jester. 

Who loves inappropriate touching. (Seriously who thought to write that line and put it in the script without anyone objecting to it? Halfway into an FE game is not the ideal place to teach good touch bad touch.)

 

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

The only reason Valm lost the war was because Walhardt had a skrimir-like mindset of strategy-be-damned; I will personally take to the field and meet all challengers. 

Beautiful images I'm getting out of this. Including Cervantes biting Walhart's leg as Ranulf did after 3-2 to stop Skrimir.

 

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Chrom's entire army would be dead-and-buried at first landing in Valm Harbor.

In agreement here, he doesn't even really try to stop Chrom, the forces in the port just so happen to be there for Say'ri it seems. I mean I can understand the appeal of him wanting to rout every last Ylissean and Feroxi in open battle instead of chipping away at them on the coasts, and he almost succeeded after Fort Steiger, but the most logical choice is a coastal defense.

I believe the undoing of Jiang Wei and Shu in China's Three Kingdom period was his decision to abandon the border mountains because he wanted to fight Wei in an open space for a decisive win, because mountain battles keep your casualties to a minimum, but also minimize the damage you can dish out to your foes. Unfortunately for Jiang Wei, Wei hopped over the mountains before he could prep his forces for the fight in the open, which Wei with much greater resources therefore won.

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Elibe may be one of the weaker continents because of how the countries are set up. Its worth noting that Elibe only has two unified kingdoms in Bern and Etruria. Lycia, Sacea and Illia are all made up of smaller factions working together and which have their own domestic rivalries going on if Laus and the Djute clan are anything to go by. This would make unity a very lacking factor in any Elibian army.

I did forget political unity. And it isn't just political unity that is an issue. Organizational unity is another and related one. If Laus or Freege is bickering for more resources than Ostia or Chalphy and refuse to cooperate with them on battlefield objectives, that disunited military structure can undermine operations.

And for Etruria, we do have a whole section of the game dealing with corrupt nobles. Even it isn't fully united.

 

35 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Elibean dragons I actually feel may in fact be WEAKER than Archanean Dragons. The Scouring had stated that even before the Legendary Weapons were created, the humans were defeating the dragons because there were too many humans that they needed . Archanean humans were driven to near extinction when their dragons degenerated. So its actually questionable on whether these dragons were as powerful. 

This seems to be a problem with all dragons. Tiki is 1100+ in the time of Marth apparently and still a child. Kurthnaga would be dead by that point, for he is ~100 after a 20+ year gestation period, and yet looks older than Archanea Tiki. Another 2000 years later and she is still not even looking like she's 20.

Dragons are really really really powerful, but kill just one, and you've killed one of something that takes centuries to prepare for war. While humans need 20 years to make a soldier. If Archanean dragons fought Archanean humans, the result would likely be the same as with Elibe.

Naga, the most powerful dragon of all, needed about 1100 years to reincarnate on her own without help, and even then it was incomplete. Medeus came back faster and still needed 100 years to return. He needed Gharnef's help to return in the next year.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Arthur97]

51 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, let's just forget that Elibe exists. I'd mention Fateslandia too but there's barely any info on the First Dragons War. 

But does it count if it happened in lore and not in games?

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I haven't played Mystery in any capacity yet, but looking at Archanea's fighting of dragons. We have 1 in Chapter 7 Mystery, hordes in Anri's Way- but those dragons weren't really being used for war then and there, nor was Marth's crew intentionally wanting to fight them. Chapter 20 has one Earth Dragon, the finale is cock full of dragons you have to foght, but that is the end of things in the War of the Heroes. The War of the Shadows features King Mannu, the boss of Linde's chapter, a couple defending Castle Altea, and then a bunch in the penultimate and ultimate battles. More than the Tellius battles against dragons excluding Anri's Way, but not that much more, and almost always at the end, when the heroes are at the top of their game. 

You also ignore degeneracy making dragons a little braindead and the fact that when Laguz get caught up in the heat of battle, they're really monstrous, Dragon Laguz included. Ranulf says he might not be able to reign in his men if they see Micaiah at one point. And Nasir says the Dragon Laguz in their entire can destroy Tellius, they'd be practically speaking, feral, and you can drug them too. The degenerating Archanean dragons on the other hand would have a harder time making rational decisions on the battlefield, Goldoans have the option of going mad- do the Archaneans?

You also ignored Dheginsea having very powerful Ashera blessings which likely applied to all of Goldoa's forces in 4-3 to a lesser extent, counterbalancing Yune's blessings on the heroes.

And lastly, one of the issues of Archanean dragon decline was a declining birthrate. I don't think there are that many sane Manaketes left by the time of Shadow Dragon. If Medeus had larger Manakete forces, why didn't he roll them out sooner? If the "humans" fought in a small handful of SD fights with the label Dolhr (I there is C12, 17, 24 and Final I think- the first two fights only happen because Grust failed to protect the castles on the outside) were Manaketes without stones, well why did the proud Medeus have them abandon them? The Dragon Laguz and Manaketes of other games seem to be just as powerful. They seem to lack the magical knowhow of Naga, but that is what Ashunera and the Herons are for.

The dragons in Anri's way are degenerated dragons. They are vicious and feral and more powerful than Manakete dragons, as evidenced by how in New Mystery, they have higher stats. Marth's crew may not have wanted to fight them, but they had to fight them regardless in the end. Also, that one Earth Dragon is already shown to be incredibly powerful, more powerful than other dragons in fact. And though the heroes are at the top of their game, there are two things to note. 

1. Before facing the Dragon Laguz, Yune blessed everyone so they could fight them, mostly Dheginsea, but still, blessings empowers them.
2. Laguz are shown to have a general weakness in affinity. Dragon laguz are weak to lightning magic I believe. Archanean Dragons do not have that form of weakness. 

They may be savage feral beasts by then, but it was the degenerated dragons along with the degenerated Earth Dragons that caused the humans in Archanea to be near extinct until Naga intervened. Unlike the drugs and maddening effects of chaos, the degeneration is the result of what seems to be too much power of the dragons that overtakes them. But this still make them more powerful

I mentioned the blessing up there. The blessing was stated to only be for Dheginsea, not the other Goldoans. But even then, while they were both empowered to be on an even playing field, the Archaneans had no such blessings to help them. 

Remember that Manaketes sealed their powers to avoid degeneration. It is likely that the more they spend time using their powers as dragons, the more they risk degeneration. This fear is what makes them avoid using it too often so they don't stay transformed all the time. This is why New Mystery is what's most important is that they are fighting less Manaketes and more degenerated dragons that have all their powers and more and have a savage mindset to destroy.

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This seems to be a problem with all dragons. Tiki is 1100+ in the time of Marth apparently and still a child. Kurthnaga would be dead by that point, for he is ~100 after a 20+ year gestation period, and yet looks older than Archanea Tiki. Another 2000 years later and she is still not even looking like she's 20.

Dragons are really really really powerful, but kill just one, and you've killed one of something that takes centuries to prepare for war. While humans need 20 years to make a soldier. If Archanean dragons fought Archanean humans, the result would likely be the same as with Elibe.

Naga, the most powerful dragon of all, needed about 1100 years to reincarnate on her own without help, and even then it was incomplete. Medeus came back faster and still needed 100 years to return. He needed Gharnef's help to return in the next year.

Well for one thing, dragon laguz have a limited lifespan. Archanean dragons have virtually none. Bantu looks like an old man in the Archanea series, yet still is implied alive by Awakening. Tiki ages and matures very slowly, and Warriors had her mention that sleep also slows down their aging process more. 

And no, it isn't the same as Elibe. As I mentioned above, the Archanean dragons drove humans to extinction in their degeneration that Naga had to step in with the other Divine Dragons. Furthermore, Gotoh stated that the Earth Dragons sleeping under Dolhr numbered in the thousands I believe, and if they wake, they will ultimately wipe out mankind. This is why completing the Shield of Seals was imperative. Hell, even Tiki was said that if she degenerated, humanity will be wiped out, and this is Tiki on her own. 

Also, it took Falchion, Naga's weapon forged from her fang, to be even be able to take down Medeus. Yes, it took him a long time before he was revived, but even then, it shows that they are that much resilient. Even in the Dragon War, Naga and the Divine Dragons, despite hailed as the strongest dragon tribe, could not kill the Earth Dragons, merely seal them.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Laguz are shown to have a general weakness in affinity. Dragon laguz are weak to lightning magic I believe. Archanean Dragons do not have that form of weakness. 

WInd magic in the former of Shaver and Excalibur takes out the Wyverns, and the Wyrmslayer and Dragonpike also work. FE3 also gives Fire, Elfire, and Bolganone effectiveness on Ice Dragons and Blizza effectiveness on Fire Dragons. Don't know why they got rid of it in later games.

12 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well for one thing, dragon laguz have a limited lifespan. Archanean dragons have virtually none. Bantu looks like an old man in the Archanea series, yet still is implied alive by Awakening. Tiki ages and matures very slowly, and Warriors had her mention that sleep also slows down their aging process more. 

You're right about lifespans, though in the context of a war of the continents, I don't see this being relevant, a war would end long before the super lifespans came into play.

13 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

This is why New Mystery is what's most important is that they are fighting less Manaketes and more degenerated dragons that have all their powers and more and have a savage mindset to destroy.

But that also makes them stupid. And you can't hit anything with a rage-filled fist. Well you can, but if your foe is calm and wise, everything will miss. It is the flaw of degeneracy. A Dragon Laguz would know when to use its limited and valuable strength. You need someone to tame the dragons and tell them what to do for Archanea's degenerates, otherwise they could run headlong into a trap and easily die. Trick a Fire Dragon into plummeting into a canyon and if it smashes a leg or two from the fall and becomes immobilized, you can shoot it with arrows, javelins and spells in relative safety. A Dragon Laguz would be too smart for that. Brains vs. brawns here.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

WInd magic in the former of Shaver and Excalibur takes out the Wyverns, and the Wyrmslayer and Dragonpike also work. FE3 also gives Fire, Elfire, and Bolganone effectiveness on Ice Dragons and Blizza effectiveness on Fire Dragons. Don't know why they got rid of it in later games.

Those ones do make sense. There are weapons made to take out specific species and elemental weaknesses. However, what of the Mage Dragons, who are shown to be mostly immune to magic? Or Earth Dragons, who are even stronger? See, while the Goldoa Dragons only have Red, Black, and White Dragons to fight on, with the Black Dragons being the strongest, the Dragon Tribes of Archanea have just as much power, with more variety, with Divine and Earth being at the top. 

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You're right about lifespans, though in the context of a war of the continents, I don't see this being relevant, a war would end long before the super lifespans came into play.

True. But even then, the age is not the issue. It's how powerful they are. Gotoh and Xane may have lost the power to transform, but one can learn and utilize various magic and create incredible tomes like Starlight, and the other can mimic someone and transform into them perfectly. And as mentioned, Tiki is so strong that Naga feared that a degenerated Tiki would lay waste to the entire human race, which the only other danger that can do is the entirety of the Earth Dragons. 

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But that also makes them stupid. And you can't hit anything with a rage-filled fist. Well you can, but if your foe is calm and wise, everything will miss. It is the flaw of degeneracy. A Dragon Laguz would know when to use its limited and valuable strength. You need someone to tame the dragons and tell them what to do for Archanea's degenerates, otherwise they could run headlong into a trap and easily die. Trick a Fire Dragon into plummeting into a canyon and if it smashes a leg or two from the fall and becomes immobilized, you can shoot it with arrows, javelins and spells in relative safety. A Dragon Laguz would be too smart for that. Brains vs. brawns here.

You would think so. And for that matter, you can have a point. But recall this. The Divine Dragons, strongest of their race, faced the degenerated Earth Dragons. The result? Yeah, they put the Earth Dragons to sleep, but this war resulted in most of the Divine Dragons actually DYING from it to the point that in FE3, only 4 Divine Dragons remained, being Gotoh, Xane, Tiki, and Naga.

So even degenerated, the sheer power and might the dragons possesses can and will be able to deal a major hit on the enemy forces. And that's if they are out of control. So what happens if someone CAN control the degenerated dragons? Medeus seems perfectly capable of controlling the degenerated dragons as a Dark Dragon. 

So Brain could overcome the Brawn, but the Brawn will not go down that easily. So the fact that they fought and still bested the degenerated dragons, who still had a large number of them in the Dragon's tower, was able to be subdued in the end. So this still gives the Archaneans a major point compared to the other dragons. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

So Brain could overcome the Brawn, but the Brawn will not go down that easily. So the fact that they fought and still bested the degenerated dragons, who still had a large number of them in the Dragon's tower, was able to be subdued in the end. So this still gives the Archaneans a major point compared to the other dragons. 

Although thankfully somehow despite being so powerful, they don't seem to wander much from the "northern wastes" (everything north of Khadein and Aurelis). It isn't total wastes according to SoV, but you kinda wonder why human civilization generally doesn't go into those regions from what we normally see in Archanea.

 

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

hose ones do make sense. There are weapons made to take out specific species and elemental weaknesses. However, what of the Mage Dragons, who are shown to be mostly immune to magic? Or Earth Dragons, who are even stronger? See, while the Goldoa Dragons only have Red, Black, and White Dragons to fight on, with the Black Dragons being the strongest, the Dragon Tribes of Archanea have just as much power, with more variety, with Divine and Earth being at the top. 

White Dragons seem to be close-ish to Divines and Mage Dragons, being light-based and targeting Res, and have very high Res though not immunity to Magic as well. Reds don't breathe fire, but seem Fire Dragon-like. Blacks breathe something black, but it doesn't seem to be darkness. Some kind of pure energy is what Goldoans use, they don't say exactly what it is. Archanean Dragons do have more variety I admit though.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although thankfully somehow despite being so powerful, they don't seem to wander much from the "northern wastes" (everything north of Khadein and Aurelis). It isn't total wastes according to SoV, but you kinda wonder why human civilization generally doesn't go into those regions from what we normally see in Archanea.

I think since the dragons degenerated into beasts, they acted like beasts, forming a territory for themselves. Though it is implied that some humans learned to actually control the dragons. Though how those humans controlled dragons that were in volcanoes or snowy mountains is a mystery. Those environments are clearly not suited for human life. 

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

White Dragons seem to be close-ish to Divines and Mage Dragons, being light-based and targeting Res, and have very high Res though not immunity to Magic as well. Reds don't breathe fire, but seem Fire Dragon-like. Blacks breathe something black, but it doesn't seem to be darkness. Some kind of pure energy is what Goldoans use, they don't say exactly what it is. Archanean Dragons do have more variety I admit though.

Close, but not the same. Divine Dragons are said to release a mist breath that is imbued with a holy light that is effective against other dragons. That's why they are hailed as the strongest dragons, because they are able to defeat the other dragons.

Not to mention that dragons in Archanea have produced weapons that are incredibly powerful. After all, Jugdral Holy Weapons ARE made by the Archanean Dragons after all. Not even the Goldoans showed this kind of skill and magical talent that the Archanean dragons did. 

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

To be honest, the use of Dragon Veins never made any sense most of the time.

Oh, i agree with you there. But even if they make little sense, they still happen.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Anankos is at full power in Valla

He was most definitely not at full power. The guy's very being was split and the one that is fought is degenerated. 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

And even then, I have no doubt that Grima and Naga can easily defeat him.

Nah. Anankos has been shown to rival or be more powerful than Naga. Grima can't beat him either because Anankos can just chuck him into another dimension. Grima does have dimensional travel but nowhere near the extent of Anankos. He only traveled backwards in time and couldn't go anywhere else after that. Really, the only one who actually stands a chance against Anankos is Ashera.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Elibean dragons I actually feel may in fact be WEAKER than Archanean Dragons. The Scouring had stated that even before the Legendary Weapons were created, the humans were defeating the dragons because there were too many humans that they needed to produce War Dragons from a transformed Divine Dragon to win. Archanean humans were driven to near extinction when their dragons degenerated. So its actually questionable on whether the Elibe dragons were as powerful. 

Then it could be a case that Elibe humans were just more advanced than Archaneans. I mean, they created weapons that fucked with the universe itself.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Until Anankos mentioned that he is in absolute awe at how Naga can manipulate space-time, violating a taboo to such a great extent. And Anankos already has an understanding on how powerful he is because he retains all of his memories, so him saying that by all means indicates that Naga may in fact be more powerful. In fact, Naga is in astral form when we see her in Awakening. Meaning that she shouldn't be able to unleash her full power since, but Falchion when blessed by her power is said to rival her own, and that is only enough to seal Grima, not kill. 

I think he was in awe because there probably wasn't really anyone else that could manipulate space-time like he could. It's not uncommon for one powerful being to be in awe at an equally powerful being.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Oh, i agree with you there. But even if they make little sense, they still happen.

And again, there would be ways of countering them. If they understand that the royals can change the terrain, they would already be prepared and can make counters for that. Robin and Soren are skilled at figuring these out. 

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

He was most definitely not at full power. The guy's very being was split and the one that is fought is degenerated. 

Except it was no longer split. If you read Hidden Truths, you find out that his human side actually reunited with his dragon half after the human side was seemingly killed. Plus, even when he was degenerated, Anankos holds sentience. He's insane, but he isn't a mindless beast. 

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Nah. Anankos has been shown to rival or be more powerful than Naga. Grima can't beat him either because Anankos can just chuck him into another dimension. Grima does have dimensional travel but nowhere near the extent of Anankos. He only traveled backwards in time and couldn't go anywhere else after that. Really, the only one who actually stands a chance against Anankos is Ashera.

Are you kidding me? Grima would literally EAT Anankos. Anankos was shown to at best be the size of a castle. Grima dwarfs castles as shown in the cutscenes. The Dragon's Table, a large tower, wasn't even bigger than Grima's head, and the same for Ylisstol Castle. 

Not to mention, Grima literally one shots the entire party in the battle and needed Naga's strength just to keep fighting him.

Not to mention, Anankos even seems to have limits when it comes to Vallite soldiers, yet Grima shows that when he's serious, he can summon entire legions instantly. In the Drama CDs, when Grima discovered that Lucina made contact with Naga, he actually summoned such a large amount of Risen that he launched an attack on Ylissol. This attack led to the destruction of the once safe haven and only the Awakening children surviving. 

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Then it could be a case that Elibe humans were just more advanced than Archaneans. I mean, they created weapons that fucked with the universe itself.

Possible, but even then, the dragons didn't seem to be that much powerful. Like I said, Elibe Dragons are only Divine, Ice, and Fire. Archanea is that plus Flying, Mage, and Earth. The latter being so strong that even the Divine Dragons ended up dying just to seal the degenerated dragons away. 

I would even argue that said weapons that screwed their reality over was only able to be forged possibly due to dragons potentially granting them knowledge. 

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I think he was in awe because there probably wasn't really anyone else that could manipulate space-time like he could. It's not uncommon for one powerful being to be in awe at an equally powerful being.

Except Anankos didn't say that. He said that he cannot violate taboo more than he already has. And yet Naga can violate it to such an extent. And keep in mind that Naga is not even in possession of a physical form, but a spiritual, meaning her powers are likely limited to how much it can be used on the physical plane, based on how the Outrealm Naga speaks in the Future Past. And this just shows how powerful Naga is all the more. And Grima is still the only entity that has in some way killed her. Naga cannot even kill him, but rather only put him to sleep. 

Anankos only APPEARS to be the strongest dragon only cause the game showed off his powers. But the games don't need to show off that much for Grima and Naga. Naga's power has been repeatedly hinted at even before Ylisse, and Naga was dead during those times. 

The very fact that human Anankos wants to recruit the Awakening children because of how they played a part in defeating Grima just shows how Grima is an entity that can compete with Anankos.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

So I'm only going to speak on the games that I've played because... I haven't played the others xD

I have to say that I think if all of Tellius banded together they would be the strongest. Almost every country in Tellius, with the exception of Goldoa (which is still debatable since they moved fast at Ashera's call), is prepped and experienced for immediate warfare should it arise and that's something I didn't see out of the others to such an extent. Especially the likes of Begnion who would be a force of any war entirely on its own. Add in dragons and Ashunera (or even Ashera and Yune working together without being Ashunera) plus the herons with their restoring powers and you have a potent mix that I feel could take on most any threat that comes its way.

Though I must admit to not being as versed in other world's lore as I am Tellius.

[omegaxis1]

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

So I'm only going to speak on the games that I've played because... I haven't played the others xD

I have to say that I think if all of Tellius banded together they would be the strongest. Almost every country in Tellius, with the exception of Goldoa (which is still debatable since they moved fast at Ashera's call), is prepped and experienced for immediate warfare should it arise and that's something I didn't see out of the others to such an extent. Especially the likes of Begnion who would be a force of any war entirely on its own. Add in dragons and Ashunera (or even Ashera and Yune working together without being Ashunera) plus the herons with their restoring powers and you have a potent mix that I feel could take on most any threat that comes its way.

Though I must admit to not being as versed in other world's lore as I am Tellius.

As strong as the laguz are, even the dragon laguz, the Archanean dragons are very much likely the strongest. Naga is the most powerful dragon that seems to have become so godlike by Awakening that she is likely rivaling even the power of Ashera and Yune individually, though still not stronger than Ashunera. 

Not to mention there are other continents that are shown to be very powerful as well. By Awakening, as mentioned above, Walhart's forces was stated to contain a million men. That's how large his military might is. And Jugdral has several powerful knights and even has the Holy Weapons that make their users said to be one man armies. Marth is regarded so well in legend as a godlike hero that his descendant Lucina thought he was a powerful and imposing figure. Marth isn't buff or shows as much of a warrior's spirit like Ike or Hector does, but Marth is still a capable fighter of his own, but has far more charisma than any other Lord. Marth is a Lord that fully and wholly embraces his weakness and allows others assist him, and more than anything, wants to protect them. He understands that sacrifice is inevitable, but he would want to ensure that everyone that he cherishes survives.

I doubt that even after you play the other games, you'll budge from your opinion, but I think that it would help you better understand that the others are not that likely to lose either.

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And again, there would be ways of countering them. If they understand that the royals can change the terrain, they would already be prepared and can make counters for that. Robin and Soren are skilled at figuring these out. 

They wouldn't know it the first time and Dragon Vein effects are so unpredictable, it'll be hard to counter them, even for the likes of Robin and Soren. Because it's not just terraforming, there's a shit ton of other Dragon Vein effects that the enemy wouldn't see coming. Suddenly, they'll be left wondering why all of their mages can't speak, or why acid rain is raining out of nowhere, or why everyone just stopped moving.

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Are you kidding me? Grima would literally EAT Anankos.

What makes you think that Grima eating Anankos would kill him? And if Grima does eat him, what's stopping Anankos from just opening a black hole and ripping Grima apart from the inside?

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Like I said, Elibe Dragons are only Divine, Ice, and Fire. Archanea is that plus Flying, Mage, and Earth. The latter being so strong that even the Divine Dragons ended up dying just to seal the degenerated dragons away. 

Flying Dragons are the weakest of the bunch. Really, the only thing i can agree on here is that Earth Dragons are stronger than Elibe Dragons but that's about it. Also, Elibe does have a Mage Dragon, her name is Idoun.

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

He said that he cannot violate taboo more than he already has. And yet Naga can violate it to such an extent.

Taboo is something that you shouldn't do. It doesn't mean that Naga can do it better that Anankos, it means that Anankos feels that he shouldn't be doing it in the first place.