Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

so I'm just going to speak my peace on this and say that without a doubt in my mind I beleive that this is a 100% port with extra characters and features.

I know what people are going to say, and I have yet to read the entire thread, but what you see as the copyright date where namco bandai should be there isn't because this is just a trailer, and smash bros has a nintendo/hal labs copyright sticker on the logo of every game as that's the studio it originally came from, like how in TMS there was a Nintendo IS copyright on it

 

If it was a port, we would've seen footage. And even beyond that, the trailer gives us a faint sample of the main theme and it sounds nothing like Smash 4's theme at all.

 

[Michelaar]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

If it was a port, we would've seen footage. And even beyond that, the trailer gives us a faint sample of the main theme and it sounds nothing like Smash 4's theme at all.

 

Plus they wiped the site clean and made a new one. Nothing is indicating to a port.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

31 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Plus they wiped the site clean and made a new one. Nothing is indicating to a port.

You mean this site? It's still there. So is Brawl's.

The one reason I'm not convinced this isn't just Smash 4 again is because they'd have a wealth of footage and content to show off it was just another "Deluxe" wii u port. I feel pretty confident in guessing this will be a Splatoon 2 style sequel. The emphasis will be on the new content and mechanics while a lot of Smash 4's content will be sanctioned off into gradual updates post release. Keeping those characters and stages at arm's length will stem the tide of people complaining about it being a "port". And really I wouldn't want to be spending precious development time on adding filler characters like Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer. If it's just Smash 4 with a little bit larger roster, you'll have trouble getting people to put down 60 dollars for the initial game.

[Michelaar]

16 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

You mean this site? It's still there. So is Brawl's.

The one reason I'm not convinced this isn't just Smash 4 again is because they'd have a wealth of footage and content to show off it was just another "Deluxe" wii u port. I feel pretty confident in guessing this will be a Splatoon 2 style sequel. The emphasis will be on the new content and mechanics while a lot of Smash 4's content will be sanctioned off into gradual updates post release. Keeping those characters and stages at arm's length will stem the tide of people complaining about it being a "port". And really I wouldn't want to be spending precious development time on adding filler characters like Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer. If it's just Smash 4 with a little bit larger roster, you'll have trouble getting people to put down 60 dollars for the initial game.

Oh, never mind that point then rip. Still confident that its a new game though.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

so I'm just going to speak my peace on this and say that without a doubt in my mind I beleive that this is a 100% port with extra characters and features.

I know what people are going to say, and I have yet to read the entire thread, but what you see as the copyright date where namco bandai should be there isn't because this is just a trailer, and smash bros has a nintendo/hal labs copyright sticker on the logo of every game as that's the studio it originally came from, like how in TMS there was a Nintendo IS copyright on it

 

Well, you have to ask yourself, at what point does it cease to be a port and start to become a new game? We're getting new characters at least. They're undoubtedly going to be using the same engine but just as equally there will surely be changes and tweeks to the gameplay. Certain character models will be changes as the trailer suggests. Probably see some new special moves on existing characters. After that, if we get new trophies, new game modes and new menu aesthetic and then it is a different game.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Jotari

[Jedi]

53 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

You mean this site? It's still there. So is Brawl's.

The one reason I'm not convinced this isn't just Smash 4 again is because they'd have a wealth of footage and content to show off it was just another "Deluxe" wii u port. I feel pretty confident in guessing this will be a Splatoon 2 style sequel. The emphasis will be on the new content and mechanics while a lot of Smash 4's content will be sanctioned off into gradual updates post release. Keeping those characters and stages at arm's length will stem the tide of people complaining about it being a "port". And really I wouldn't want to be spending precious development time on adding filler characters like Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer. If it's just Smash 4 with a little bit larger roster, you'll have trouble getting people to put down 60 dollars for the initial game.

Gradual updates would turn a lot of people off even more than just it being a port.

it works with Splatoon because of how Splatoon is, it doesn't work with Smash because some people only get the games for their character(s) doing gradual updates would also be very dumb from a marketing standpoint and would stand against several of Sakurais design philosophies. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Jedi

[Captain Karnage]

54 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Gradual updates would turn a lot of people off even more than just it being a port.

it works with Splatoon because of how Splatoon is, it doesn't work with Smash because some people only get the games for their character(s) doing gradual updates would also be very dumb from a marketing standpoint and would stand against several of Sakurais design philosophies. 

part of the reason I think it's a port is just because they didn't show any gameplay

I know people are comparing this to MK8 DX, but the thing is that MK sells regardless of what it is, I think they'd rather keep up the hype, if everyone knew it was a port there would be so much less hype

[Water Mage]

3 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

part of the reason I think it's a port is just because they didn't show any gameplay

I know people are comparing this to MK8 DX, but the thing is that MK sells regardless of what it is, I think they'd rather keep up the hype, if everyone knew it was a port there would be so much less hype

But the backlash would be much bigger it it was revealed to be port after that teaser. They’re not dumb. This would be Blazblue Cross Tag Battle DLC reveal all over again.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

part of the reason I think it's a port is just because they didn't show any gameplay

And that's exactly why i (and probably most of everyone else) think it's a new game. If it was a port, why would there be a need to hide gameplay?

 

6 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

I know people are comparing this to MK8 DX, but the thing is that MK sells regardless of what it is, I think they'd rather keep up the hype, if everyone knew it was a port there would be so much less hype

>Implying Smash doesn't sell regardless of what it is.

[Captain Karnage]

35 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Implying Smash doesn't sell regardless of what it is.

what I was saying is that Mario Kart has a huge appeal, and always ends up in the top 5 on any system they put it on. Hell my parents who don't even play video games know what Mario Kart is

37 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

But the backlash would be much bigger it it was revealed to be port after that teaser. They’re not dumb. This would be Blazblue Cross Tag Battle DLC reveal all over again.

if anything the additions will probably calm everyone down, if they add like 15 characters I don't think people would complain as much.

and Blazblue was another story entirely 

[Armagon]

26 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

what I was saying is that Mario Kart has a huge appeal, and always ends up in the top 5 on any system they put it on. Hell my parents who don't even play video games know what Mario Kart is

Uh-huh, and? Mario Kart is huge but so is Smash. Smash is an S-tier Nintendo franchise, hell i'd argue it's actually S+. Nintendo didn't even have to show the Inklings in the trailer, all they had to do was just show the Smash logo and the Internet would lose their shit regardless. Sure, Mario Kart has a massive casual appeal, whereas Smash appeals to people who are already Nintendo fans (not necessarily casual) but to imply that Smash wouldn't generate massive hype and sell, even if it was just a port, is just factually incorrect.

[Zangetsu]

Man, only something like Smash could cause this much ruckus.

It's hilariously sad on how much can be mitigated if someone just confirm it's being a new game or not.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

And that's exactly why i (and probably most of everyone else) think it's a new game. If it was a port, why would there be a need to hide gameplay?

 

>Implying Smash doesn't sell regardless of what it is.

Well...I'll probably be buying it regardless as to what it is.

[Florete]

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

If it was a port, we would've seen footage. And even beyond that, the trailer gives us a faint sample of the main theme and it sounds nothing like Smash 4's theme at all.

 

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

And that's exactly why i (and probably most of everyone else) think it's a new game. If it was a port, why would there be a need to hide gameplay?

They're branding it as a new game, but this doesn't mean it's not a partial port, like Splatoon 2. Things can still change in remakes and remasters.

As for not showing gameplay, I would say it was for dramatic effect. But I do think it's funny how people use this point to say it's totally not a port when the reveal trailers for every other Smash game (that were not ports) did show gameplay, whereas this one doesn't.

[Silverly]

I agree with the opinion that this Smash will be a "soft port". It will definitely have its own flare, but I think it will barrow a lot from the last one. 

[NoirCore]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

 

They're branding it as a new game, but this doesn't mean it's not a partial port, like Splatoon 2. Things can still change in remakes and remasters.

As for not showing gameplay, I would say it was for dramatic effect. But I do think it's funny how people use this point to say it's totally not a port when the reveal trailers for every other Smash game (that were not ports) did show gameplay, whereas this one doesn't.

I mean, in that case, all prior Smash games are partial ports, although from 64 to Melee is a little debatable as the quality difference is very noticable there. Reusing animations, same/similar movesets with tweaks (especially for all returning characters), reused audio clips, some returning stages that remained untouched, etc.

Honestly, I'm guessing it's a new game. A new logo with no deluxe subtitle and a change arguably more drastic than recoloring part of a logo (the farthest I've seen a logo edited for a port outside of adding the subtitle), no familiar Sm4sh transition in the trailer, BOTW Link being used as a shadow when a port would ideally use the traditional Link (which is default) and save BOTW Link for a separate trailer as an extra alt costume instead of him being Link's main costume...I feel all the signs point to this being a new game, partial port or whatever.

[Florete]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

I mean, in that case, all prior Smash games are partial ports, although from 64 to Melee is a little debatable as the quality difference is very noticable there. Reusing animations, same/similar movesets with tweaks (especially for all returning characters), reused audio clips, some returning stages that remained untouched, etc.

Honestly, I'm guessing it's a new game. A new logo with no deluxe subtitle and a change arguably more drastic than recoloring part of a logo (the farthest I've seen a logo edited for a port outside of adding the subtitle), no familiar Sm4sh transition in the trailer, BOTW Link being used as a shadow when a port would ideally use the traditional Link (which is default) and save BOTW Link for a separate trailer as an extra alt costume instead of him being Link's main costume...I feel all the signs point to this being a new game, partial port or whatever.

By "partial port" I mean that it would essentially play the same, which you can't say for each iteration of Smash to this point.

This is pretty much all stuff you could say about Slatoon 2 in one way or another. All this says is that it's being branded as a new game, and in technical terms it still would be as long as there's anything new, even if it were 98% a port. No deluxe subtitle? Branding, literally. No Smash 4 transition? Branding. Champion Link? Maybe (maybe) he's getting reworked. Could be a lot, could be a little, but either way this doesn't scream "NEW GAME." (I honestly find this to be the absolute weakest argument anyone has used. Like, seriously?)

Again, in technical terms, this absolutely is a new game. The issue is just how new it is. You seem to think it's at least 90% new (estimating). My guess is that it will be like Splatoon 2, which is something like 50% new, but the fact is that we just don't have enough information to know.

And that last part is the point I'm making. I'm just trying to get people to realize that we really don't know yet, because if the game turns out to be a half port all these people who are so sure that it's a new game are going to be disappointed, and in the Smash fandom that's never pretty.

[NoirCore]

4 minutes ago, Florete said:

By "partial port" I mean that it would essentially play the same, which you can't say for each iteration of Smash to this point.

This is pretty much all stuff you could say about Slatoon 2 in one way or another. All this says is that it's being branded as a new game, and in technical terms it still would be as long as there's anything new, even if it were 98% a port. No deluxe subtitle? Branding, literally. No Smash 4 transition? Branding. Champion Link? Maybe (maybe) he's getting reworked. Could be a lot, could be a little, but either way this doesn't scream "NEW GAME." (I honestly find this to be the absolute weakest argument anyone has used. Like, seriously?)

Again, in technical terms, this absolutely is a new game. The issue is just how new it is. You seem to think it's at least 90% new (estimating). My guess is that it will be like Splatoon 2, which is something like 50% new, but the fact is that we just don't have enough information to know.

And that last part is the point I'm making. I'm just trying to get people to realize that we really don't know yet, because if the game turns out to be a half port all these people who are so sure that it's a new game are going to be disappointed, and in the Smash fandom that's never pretty.

I wouldn't call my argument on Champion Link's sudden yet unfocused appearance being a clue that weak despite your downplaying, but I guess I won't press that issue further. I do think the branding is a significant clue by comparing the differences between trailers compared to other big ports however, although I'll give that it's likely early.

As for the new game stuff, I wouldn't say 90% or more of it would be new. I think the content and gameplay retained from the prior game is way too much for only being 10%, especially for a competitive fighter where characters and mechanics are very important. I'd say something like 60% is new between Brawl and Sm4sh...? Not certain.

I do still lean towards "new game", but I don't see it as a certainty, only going as far by the branding argument. Next trailer we get, that likely will be what hammers the nail into the coffin for one side. Probably should have used different wording than "all the signs point to".

[Florete]

3 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I wouldn't call my argument on Champion Link's sudden yet unfocused appearance being a clue that weak despite your downplaying, but I guess I won't press that issue further.

It's not just you. A lot of people have said this. Some people are using it as the crutch of their belief that it's a fully new Smash game, and that just confounds me.

But that's just me.

[IEatLasers]

No newcomer I can think of is very exciting so it’ll be all about who I like by moveset. 

 

Except any LoZ except tingle 

 

and basically any FE especially Chrom not that’s he could get in just because he should have been in (imo) 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 3/11/2018 at 1:23 AM, NSSKG151 said:

Wait, are you saying that they wouldn't use Jack Frost as a potential third party rep? I feel like he would fit into Smash nicely and would be a good choice due to being Atlus' mascot and effectively being their version of Pikachu.

I meant Black Frost would possibly be used over Jack Frost. Blackie is basically a larger and a little more demonic version of a standard Jack Frost, and is also supposed to be a stronger. Regular Jack Frost is a little generic and small.  Even if BF didn't make it in, it could easily have its color scheme converted to a palette swap for Jack Frost's.

 

On 3/12/2018 at 12:02 AM, Slumber said:

At the very least, rework some FE characters like Robin into like, Golden Sun characters(Golden Sun desperately needs some love. Camelot can't subsist on making Mario Sports games forever) or something. Instead of it being Robin calling upon spells, it can be Isaac calling upon Djinn or something. Consolidate Lucina and Roy into Marth costumes. Obliterate Corrin. Keep Marth and Ike and add new lords to promote new games.

Issac/Felix (if they could make all the Koopalings and Alph, might as well go the extra half-mile here and Issac and Felix share the exact same Psynergy, equips, and curse of silence when the main protag) would be very good. Alas, Golden Sun has suffered from Dark Dawn being a regression of the series rather than a step forward with no sequels (which would have to do so much to fix all that was wrong and also foreshadowed with DD's plot that I think it'd need two sequels to address them without rushing things).

However, the retroite characters: ROB, Ice Climbers, DH, Mr. G&W, Pit and LM to lesser extents, are all as dead. The only difference is that GS died on the GBA/DS rather than the NES. Therefore, I'd like Issac and think he has a case. Why discriminate against the system of death Nintendo?

S4 got rid of the Issac Assist Trophy IRRC, which is an ill omen for the series. 

Thinking on Issac's moveset, while he would use a sword, I would like them to severely downplay regular sword swings for other things. Besides Psynergy (mostly Venus/Earth, but he could use the utilities and perhaps some Mars/Fire), Unleashes, and Djinn, don't forget Summons- they could be used for Midgar 2.0, or a Final Smash. Stage- Venus or Mars Lighthouse, the end points of TBS and TLA, sufficiently epic, rather clean aesthetically, and not generic fantasy or as unmemorable as the rest of GS's locales can be.

 

As for Lucina, I'd say have her share a spot with Marth, regardless of whether she'd keep her no-tipper or not. The character select screen might need an overhaul anyhow, it is getting a little too crowded and the character portraits too small for me. Perhaps divide into looser or firmer expandable and collapsible categories for all the characters (so all of the FE chars in one file, all the Mario in another, various Nintendo one-offs in a third)? 

[Michelaar]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I meant Black Frost would possibly be used over Jack Frost. Blackie is basically a larger and a little more demonic version of a standard Jack Frost, and is also supposed to be a stronger. Regular Jack Frost is a little generic and small.  Even if BF didn't make it in, it could easily have its color scheme converted to a palette swap for Jack Frost's.

 

That's like saying Raichu should be used over Pikachu.

[Armagon]

Smash 5 tournament at E3 before the game is even out, God bless.

[Lightchao42]

Here's a link to Nintendo's E3 site for more information. This isn't the first time this happened, since Super Smash Bros. for Wii U had a similar tournament at E3 2014.

Though it's strange that this was announced before we even got any gameplay...

[Jedi]

Oh ho, that must mean it's fairly decent along then. Maybe it won't get delayed after all.