Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Water Mage]

21 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Maybe its because the weapons are from different time lines, and since Lucina's is older technically, it makes a different sound. How can you tell if Lucina hasn't got any new clips? Also, is Roy confirmed to be in English too?

 

20 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Don’t quote me on this, but I believe Ray Chase (the VA for Roy) responded with a like to a question asking him if he’s voicing Roy for Smash. So it’s looking pretty likely.

During a recent q&a with the fans, a fan asked if he’s voicing Roy in Smash. He sid that he can neither confirm or deny it, which is pretty much a confirmation that he’s voicing Roy in Smash.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Dante versus Bayonetta? Can the debate be put to rest in Smash Bros. Ultimate?

Oh btw there's a tournament going on at Gamescom atm

[Lau]

14 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Lloyd has the Mii costume, so he'd likely get the spot. Lloyd & Heihachi seem to be the most likely namco characters. 

Could also be Dragon Quest, seeing as Sakurai likes his gaming history the possibility is always there. There is also the fact that FF still only has 2 songs and the crossover list specfically stated it was FF7, so if another FF character got in it'd likely be Zack as an echo. 

If I may ask why you'd be against Dante when we have a character he indirectly spawned? (and he wouldn't be nearly as irritating as).

Yeah, Zack as an Echo would be fine by me.

As for Dante...it's kind of a silly reason. I'm picky with third party characters. Snake, Cloud, Richter and Simon, I'm fine with. I really like them. It's just that I feel like the roster is becoming oversaturated with third parties. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even have another third party outside of Echoes. Basically, the classic case of "I don't like them/have a personal attachment to them so I'd rather not have them". But of course, I understand that people love them, so more power to them.

[Fabulously Olivier]

28 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Lloyd has the Mii costume, so he'd likely get the spot. Lloyd & Heihachi seem to be the most likely namco characters. 

Could also be Dragon Quest, seeing as Sakurai likes his gaming history the possibility is always there. There is also the fact that FF still only has 2 songs and the crossover list specfically stated it was FF7, so if another FF character got in it'd likely be Zack as an echo. 

If I may ask why you'd be against Dante when we have a character he indirectly spawned? (and he wouldn't be nearly as irritating as).

I'd be okay with Lloyd. Wouldn't want Heihachi.

 

And personally, while I'm still not optimistic about Dante's chances, I would be ecstatic if he does make it in and would main him in a heartbeat.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Indie showcase next week. There goes my theory of them doing that next month in a general nintendo direct. Guess we can put away our smash speculation typing gloves. Unless of course you're hounding for Travis Touchdown or Sans to join Smash.

[Slumber]

I'd be happy if Erdrick from DQ was in. It might help drum up DQ interest in the west, too, so I could see Squeenix going for it. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I'd be happy if Erdrick from DQ was in. It might help drum up DQ interest in the west, too, so I could see Squeenix going for it. 

Erdick has the issue of being another sword user though, even if you slipped him some spells like Kazapple. I'd prefer the good old mascot Slime. The issue with this however, is that while SE made a Slime able to play sports, I doubt they could make a goo-d fighting moveset for one. Yet if they did, I'd be Metal all the time.

[Jedi]

27 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Erdick has the issue of being another sword user though, even if you slipped him some spells like Kazapple. I'd prefer the good old mascot Slime. The issue with this however, is that while SE made a Slime able to play sports, I doubt they could make a goo-d fighting moveset for one. Yet if they did, I'd be Metal all the time.

That's never been an actual issue in the first place. It's just loud whiny people being loud whiny people.

3 hours ago, Lau said:

Yeah, Zack as an Echo would be fine by me.

As for Dante...it's kind of a silly reason. I'm picky with third party characters. Snake, Cloud, Richter and Simon, I'm fine with. I really like them. It's just that I feel like the roster is becoming oversaturated with third parties. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even have another third party outside of Echoes. Basically, the classic case of "I don't like them/have a personal attachment to them so I'd rather not have them". But of course, I understand that people love them, so more power to them.

And that's fine, I respect that, I myself want them to go wild, but I also see why you wouldn't want them to. 
 

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

I'd be okay with Lloyd. Wouldn't want Heihachi.

 

And personally, while I'm still not optimistic about Dante's chances, I would be ecstatic if he does make it in and would main him in a heartbeat.

Helps that Lloyd has a moveset that would be easy to fit into Smash (Yuri would too but he's not as familar with Nintendo players).

[Acacia Sgt]

Someone from DQ would certainly be cool. If not Erdrick/Loto, then perhaps... hmm, maybe either of his descendants?

I'd also be down for Lloyd. Though personally, if a Tales character were to get it, I'd choose more someone from Phantasia.

Not sure on Heichachi. Didn't his seiyuu just recently died? Unless it was something already planned, I doubt they're start now, considering things.

[Interdimensional Observer]

30 minutes ago, Jedi said:

That's never been an actual issue in the first place. It's just loud whiny people being loud whiny people.

On the one hand, you're right. The swordies we have so far all play fairly differently. Marth has the old tipper, Roy has his reverse tipper, Ike is slow and heavy, Robin has a lot of magic and durability. Cloud has Limit Breaks. Shulk has Monado Arts. The Links integrate non-swords into their specials and grab. Corrin is much more predominantly dragon than swordie. Pit is dualblade and dual blades that is also a bow. 

Furthermore, like it or not, Smash with 4 in a way accepted there will be a lot of swords. The Miis come in fisticuffs, cannons, and swords, as if they are a fundamental pillar of Smash playstyles in a sense (and it was feasible to give to a Mii).

Another point is that so far, we haven't actually had any totally new sword additions in Ultimate. Chrom is just an Echo. We might not get any more, but if we find out we are getting one, it'd be one when the other new characters of Ridley, K. Rool, and the Belmonts aren't them at all.

 

I'll admit I wouldn't mind another swordie or two, in the form of Issac, who can downplay his swordiness with Psynergy, or Elma, who can make half her moveset Dual Guns- so Pityonetta in a very crude sense of things (and I want her using Ghost Factory as her Down Special, decoys could be interesting in Smash).

 

19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd also be down for Lloyd. Though personally, if a Tales character were to get it, I'd choose more someone from Phantasia.

 

Phantasia's only departure from Japan though was that slog of a GBA port. And it'd have to be Cress (or is it Cless?), since Smash doesn't believe in opting for non-main characters from a game, even if they are quite relevant nonetheless and could be much more creative. Cress could pack spears and axes in addition to a sword, as he could in his base game, but I doubt it. Not sure what style of sword Yuri uses, but Lloyd has the advantage of two standard-sized swords, something nobody is packing so far.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Anacybele]

If having a Mii costume means you have a high chance, can I still hope for Black Knight as an Ike echo even though we got Chrom? I know it's a lot of FE characters, but it could be the reason Sakurai neglected to make Chrom an Ike echo like people thought he'd be. Two echoes of the same character at the same time might be a bit much. Also, BK's theme and trophy is already in Smash too. All that's really missing is BK himself.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Anacybele

[Jedi]

BK would be a pretty easy Ike echo, and all you need do is change Aether to some teleportation move and maybe make a few of his swings more precise, since Ike's a little more wild and rough.

[Slumber]

It sucks that my two most wanted characters right now are Isaac and Erdrick, since yeah, two swordies. 

Third would be Skull Kid and fourth would be Geno, but Skull Kid is a long shot(I just think he'd have a REALLY fun moveset, and his Final Smash is a no-brainer) and Geno's Squeenix(And obscure). 

So really all of my top picks that are left now that K. Rool is in the game all have problems to some degree. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Slumber

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

That's never been an actual issue in the first place. It's just loud whiny people being loud whiny people.

I don't see what's wrong about people being sick and tired of having yet more sword users added the game, regardless if they have a unique take on it or not. Not only that, it shows a lack of imagination on the developers part.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Phantasia's only departure from Japan though was that slog of a GBA port. And it'd have to be Cress (or is it Cless?), since Smash doesn't believe in opting for non-main characters from a game, even if they are quite relevant nonetheless and could be much more creative. Cress could pack spears and axes in addition to a sword, as he could in his base game, but I doubt it. Not sure what style of sword Yuri uses, but Lloyd has the advantage of two standard-sized swords, something nobody is packing so far.

I doubt that would be an issue, and it's nonexistant for Japan anyway. In any case, I admit that someone like Lloyd would be more focused when it comes to candidate evaluations.

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I don't see what's wrong about people being sick and tired of having yet more sword users added the game, regardless if they have a unique take on it or not. Not only that, it shows a lack of imagination on the developers part.

I'm so confused right now.

A character has a sword = lack of imagination on the developer's part? That just seems nonsensical. Nobody complains about all the weaponless characters/CQC fighters-- it's an arbitrary complaint over what a character has in their hands.

 

[thecrimsonflash]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

If having a Mii costume means you have a high chance, can I still hope for Black Knight as an Ike echo even though we got Chrom? I know it's a lot of FE characters, but it could be the reason Sakurai neglected to make Chrom an Ike echo like people thought he'd be. Two echoes of the same character at the same time might be a bit much. Also, BK's theme and trophy is already in Smash too. All that's really missing is BK himself.

while I will not tell you to get your hopes up too high as nothing is confirmed yet on that front, the black knight as a playable character has plenty going for him in smash bros.

first, off he would be fairly simple moveset wise, as an Ike echo he could have mostly the same moveset barring one or two specials, at most his up special could be a simple warp or he could have a warp based on abra where he warps people with him (which has all sorts of fun troll possibilities, I will call it burgersicide until further notice), and his neutral special could just use blade beam from cloud, maybe with the option of charging.

second, sakurai acknowledged his existence in smash 4 with a mii fighter costume, that means that this is a character which remains in sakurai's consciousness, this does mean something.

third, many are speculating a heroes vs villains theme, out of all the fire emblem villains the black knight is the most popular and has one of the more realizable movesets (fire emblem dragons are questionable at best) and even if there is no technical heroes vs villains theme, "I want more villains" is not an uncommon opinion for people to have and I imagine that could have helped any villains in the ballot.

fourth, there is the recent castle siege changes which may mean something, it is an oddly specific change given the changes were otherwise just intended to make the stage work with ultimate's art style.

fifth, he does have some presence in mods, whether or not sakurai looks at those or not, this could influence the ballot lightly in his favor.

and to conclude some may say that Ike still having his BK pallet swap hurts his chances, but simon still has a richter pallet swap, the reason why there is no chrom pallet for Ike is because it wouldn't go with ranger Ike, so there is no real pattern to this.

I would say that the black knight's odds are much higher than some may think (over 50%), so I don't think you can count him out, as far as speculation for bosses or assists go, I don't think BK has any gimmick which would be worth using in the case of an assist trophy, his moves wouldn't work as a boss due to them not being large enough.

as previously stated, don't think of this as an absolute confirmation, but his odds of being dlc skyocket with current trends.

Edited August 23, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

Nobody complains about all the weaponless characters/CQC fighters-- it's an arbitrary complaint over what a character has in their hands.

There are only so many ways to swing a sword- but there too are only so many ways to move limbs!

At its outset, Smash was primarily a non-weapon fighter, and fighting games are to some extent built around the presence or absence of weapons. Street Fighter doesn't have them, Soulcalibur does. -Smash doesn't need to adhere to these policies though, it is its own thing in the fighting game world.

The appearances of weaponless characters tends to be much more diverse visually. Mario, ROB, Pikachu, Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Zelda are all radically different, meanwhile swords has a lot of blue, Links, and FE and "anime" males.

[Jedi]

44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are only so many ways to swing a sword- but there too are only so many ways to move limbs!

At its outset, Smash was primarily a non-weapon fighter, and fighting games are to some extent built around the presence or absence of weapons. Street Fighter doesn't have them, Soulcalibur does. -Smash doesn't need to adhere to these policies though, it is its own thing in the fighting game world.

The appearances of weaponless characters tends to be much more diverse visually. Mario, ROB, Pikachu, Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Zelda are all radically different, meanwhile swords has a lot of blue, Links, and FE and "anime" males.

Theres plenty of ways to use a sword. 

Street Fighter also does have some weapons lol, ask Rolento or Cody about that.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

"You could make a whole fighting game out of swords"

...if you've got three axis to work with. Smash Bros. is a 2D fighter, despite it's characters and objects being rendered in a 3D space. So lateral sword strikes are just inferior to vertical slashes or pointed stabs. And with that in mind, all sword movesets end up looking very similar. While in a 3D space vertical chops and stabs can miss, this weakness is not present in Smash Bros. A stab covers the same space a horizontal slash does - but with more range.

I can definitely empathize with being upset over the overuse of Anime With a Sword™ characters. That's been my major critique of Smash 4's roster additions. Too many humans, and too many humans with pointed sticks. We want to see new fighters that look as unique as they play.

[DisobeyedCargo]

A lot of the “anime sword bois” do have unique properties that set them  apart 

Shulk can do basically anything with the monado arts and the monado itself is a very unique sword 

Corrin has a lot of their moves dedicated to the Dragon part of them

Robin emphasizes magic

Cloud has his limit break gimmick

Ike has things Like eruption and quick draw and is in general heavier and more powerful 

Marth... is basic sword boi 

Roy does more damage when he’s closer to the enemy but that’s all I have for him 

Lucina and chrom are echoes so similar to marth and Roy 

Pits weapon is primarily a bow that can function as dual swords

Link has a lot of his in game items as a good part of his moveset 

same with the other links

Meta knight... I don’t really know I’ve never played as him 

Ive never minded the amount of anime sword bois in smash 

[Zangetsu]

54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are only so many ways to swing a sword- but there too are only so many ways to move limbs!

At its outset, Smash was primarily a non-weapon fighter, and fighting games are to some extent built around the presence or absence of weapons. Street Fighter doesn't have them, Soulcalibur does. -Smash doesn't need to adhere to these policies though, it is its own thing in the fighting game world.

The appearances of weaponless characters tends to be much more diverse visually. Mario, ROB, Pikachu, Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Zelda are all radically different, meanwhile swords has a lot of blue, Links, and FE and "anime" males.

How can you say this when you have Soul Calibur in your argument?

 

In what way does Xiaghua, Mitsurigi, Taki, & Siegfried fight in the same manner?

 

It's absurd people are using that argument against Isaac's inclusion & I don't even care his inclusion. I swear the Smash community is the most entitled community out there

[Interdimensional Observer]

32 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Theres plenty of ways to use a sword. 

Street Fighter also does have some weapons lol, ask Rolento or Cody about that.

I'm admittedly not that versed in fighting games. I guess I shouldn't have said that then.

 

13 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

How can you say this when you have Soul Calibur in your argument?

 

In what way does Xiaghua, Mitsurigi, Taki, & Siegfried fight in the same manner?

 

Note the opening of my remark- "but there too are only so many ways to move limbs!". That was referring to the movements we call "punches" and "kicks"- the weapons of the weaponless. It is not to be denied characters in Smash without weapons share attacks too; IIRC, Sheik and Sonic have the same dair, Mario and Falco the same nair.

I wasn't speaking of the sword issue originally with any venom, I don't loathe swords, I only brought it up finding a measure of merit in it, and repeating a common complaint without thinking on it seriously. However, if you read my first response to Jedi criticizing me bringing up the not-#FE TMS issue, you'll notice I did bend very much so to sword movesets in Smash being fairly distinctive from each other.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Folt]

Meh. If there's too many sword users, there's too many martial arts users as well.

Right now, most franchises are well repped in terms of potential playable characters. I generally want only one or two characters for certain franchises.

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

"You could make a whole fighting game out of swords"

...if you've got three axis to work with. Smash Bros. is a 2D fighter, despite it's characters and objects being rendered in a 3D space. So lateral sword strikes are just inferior to vertical slashes or pointed stabs. And with that in mind, all sword movesets end up looking very similar. While in a 3D space vertical chops and stabs can miss, this weakness is not present in Smash Bros. A stab covers the same space a horizontal slash does - but with more range.

I can definitely empathize with being upset over the overuse of Anime With a Sword™ characters. That's been my major critique of Smash 4's roster additions. Too many humans, and too many humans with pointed sticks. We want to see new fighters that look as unique as they play.

Sweeping arm blows/kicks are superior to vertical/straight ones on a 2D plane; you can just as easily turn this exact "argument" around.

"Too many humans"; can't say I've seen that categorical complaint much before. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by The DanMan