Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Anacybele]

27 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Also, fighting styles are barely a thing that gets elaborated on in franchise at all, and are largely fabricated/interpreted in Smash to begin with. Ike's lack of speed in particular is a form of creative license, as it's actually rather high in PoR. 

RD Ike's Spd isn't nearly as good though. So making Ike in Smash a bit slow isn't entirely inaccurate.

[Fabulously Olivier]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

RD Ike's Spd isn't nearly as good though. So making Ike in Smash a bit slow isn't entirely inaccurate.

It's still on par with Jill and caps at an even higher number. It's also higher than Nephenee's, Boyd's, and Nolan's. It's on par with Elincia's at a higher cap. It's almost on par with Marcia's with a higher cap.

 

He's hardly slow, and he only appears to be so in comparison to such speed demons as the swordmasters/thieves. In fact, I daresay RD Ike is still on the fast side, and spd is never a noteworthy weakness of his (just not a noteworthy strength either).

Edited January 29, 2020 by Etheus

[Lord_Brand]

Well then, I'm all for Marth, Ike, and Lyn defining different swordfighting styles. Ike and Mercenaries like Ogma use longer, heavier two-handed swords with more reach and punch, Lyn and Myrmidons/Samurai swing katanas in quick strokes, and Marth and similar lords use a more graceful, balanced fighting style with superior defense.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Well then, I'm all for Marth, Ike, and Lyn defining different swordfighting styles. Ike and Mercenaries like Ogma use longer, heavier two-handed swords with more reach and punch, Lyn and Myrmidons/Samurai swing katanas in quick strokes, and Marth and similar lords use a more graceful, balanced fighting style with superior defense.

What if Ike defines a hybrid style with an axe - hero style and Lyn defines a hybrid style with a bow (which can then carry over to every FE archer as alts). 

 

Edit: 

Notably, Takumi and Claude are noted as being competent swordsmen, and Claude has a prf sword. So, pretty good fits for a moveset with Lyn. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Etheus

[Anacybele]

24 minutes ago, Etheus said:

It's still on par with Jill and caps at an even higher number. It's also higher than Nephenee's, Boyd's, and Nolan's. It's on par with Elincia's at a higher cap. It's almost on par with Marcia's with a higher cap.

 

He's hardly slow, and he only appears to be so in comparison to such speed demons as the swordmasters/thieves. In fact, I daresay RD Ike is still on the fast side, and spd is never a noteworthy weakness of his (just not a noteworthy strength either).

In what world is a 35% Spd growth good? It's pretty bad imo. Especially compared to PoR Ike's 55%. RD Ike only as a good base Spd. He'd be pretty lucky if it got way higher than that.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

In what world is a 35% Spd growth good? It's pretty bad imo. Especially compared to PoR Ike's 55%. RD Ike only as a good base Spd. He'd be pretty lucky if it got way higher than that.

All I can say on that matter is that base stats matter more than growths, and Ike's average speed is very solid. 

 

 

Again, in practice, Ike being slow is a fabrication in both games, unless he's spd screwed.

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

Why would you group Ike with the other sword lords? His fighting style is completely different.

'cause he's holding a sword!  😛

I wish I could give you a better answer.  But alas, FE is known for lords wielding swords, and Ikey-poo is no different in that regard.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Etheus said:

All I can say on that matter is that base stats matter more than growths, and Ike's average speed is very solid. 

 

 

Again, in practice, Ike being slow is a fabrication in both games, unless he's spd screwed.

Well, whatever the case, I still prefer Ike's moveset being different from other sword characters because he has a different style and type of sword and Smash still at least kept that true. Ike's style in Smash is different from that of Marth, Roy, Chrom, and Lucina and that's the case in FE too. Even if what moves Smash DID give these guys isn't entirely accurate. It'd be even more inaccurate to make them all the same imo.

[Lord_Brand]

I will point out that movement and speed are not the same stat in FE. Movement is used for travel and gives an indicator of how quickly a unit can run, hence why bulky armored units like Knights and Generals only have a movement of 4 or 5 while mounted units like Cavaliers and Pegasus Knights have 7 or even 8. Speed is used in combat to determine whether or not a unit can score a double attack against another and to determine evasion chance. Thus, a Myrmidon has an average movement of 5 while possessing high speed for doubling and dodging.

I'm cool with hybrid movesets. Maybe Marth can add lances so he can share a slot with Caeda.

Alternatively, Marth's specials could involve summoning allies to battle to convey his leadership role. Jagen, Cain, Abel, Gordin, Draug, and Caeda would make the most sense as the first units under Marth's command, with all of them except Caeda being Altean knights who directly serve the Prince himself, and Caeda being his lover. Gordin would be his Standard Special, using a Bow to attack from a distance. Draug would be Marth's Down Special, blocking attacks with his tough armor and retaliating with his lance. Jagen, Cain, and Abel form Marth's Forward Special, charging at foes with their own lances on horseback. And Caeda can be Marth's Up Special, giving him a lift with her Pegasus and attacking foes in her path with her lance. Marth's final smash could have all of them join him in an all-out charge called Together We Ride! as called out by Marth himself.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Lord_Brand

[Fabulously Olivier]

28 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

I will point out that movement and speed are not the same stat in FE. Movement is used for travel and gives an indicator of how quickly a unit can run, hence why bulky armored units like Knights and Generals only have a movement of 4 or 5 while mounted units like Cavaliers and Pegasus Knights have 7 or even 8. Speed is used in combat to determine whether or not a unit can score a double attack against another and to determine evasion chance. Thus, a Myrmidon has an average movement of 6 while possessing high speed and skill for doubling, scoring criticals, triggering skills, and dodging.

I'm cool with hybrid movesets. Maybe Marth can add lances so he can share a slot with Caeda.

Alternatively, Marth's specials could involve summoning allies to battle to convey his leadership role. Jagen, Cain, Abel, Gordin, Draug, and Caeda would make the most sense as the first units under Marth's command, with all of them except Caeda being Altean knights who directly serve the Prince himself, and Caeda being his lover. Gordin would be his Standard Special, using a Bow to attack from a distance. Draug would be Marth's Down Special, blocking attacks with his tough armor and retaliating with his lance. Jagen, Cain, and Abel form Marth's Forward Special, charging at foes with their own lances on horseback. And Caeda can be Marth's Up Special, giving him a lift with her Pegasus and attacking foes in her path with her lance. Marth's final smash could have all of them join him in an all-out charge called Together We Ride! as called out by Marth himself.

It's also noteworthy that Chrom and Lucina have weapons as a secondary type as well. That doesn't help Roy, but we could always bend the rules and give him the Brave Eliwood treatment. 

 

Perhaps it could be the case that ALL FE movesets are sword hybrids. 

 

Marth's moveset could hybridize with Lances and include Chrom, Lucina, Caeda, Ephraim, and Dimitri.

 

Lyn's could hybridize with bows and include Claude, Alm, and Takumi.

 

Ike's could hybridize with axes and include Edelgard (noted to be proficient in swords) and Hector (just because). 

 

And then, of course, you have Robin being Robin. Celica is a natural fit. And while it would be a stretch to give Micaiah a sword, it's probably worth it to make people happy. And well, Levin Sword initially shared a name with Lewyn, so may as well throw him in as well. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Hey, what if Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector were all part of a rotating trio? Smash could use more duo and trio teams. Heck, I've even suggested a quartet, the Warriors of Light.

Like Pokemon Trainer? That...would be pretty awesome. Lyn could rep myrmidon/swordmasters + bows, Eliwood's Durandal could be a sort of Ragnal-Buster Sword combo, and Hector could be totally dedicated to axes.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I'm a major advocate for multi-moveset characters like 3 Houses trainer or a Blazing Sword trio, but it's clear that Sakurai isn't, unfortunately.

[Lord_Brand]

DK Crew (Tiny, Lanky, Chunky), Elibe Lords (Lyn, Eliwood, Hector), X & Zero, Light Warriors (Warrior, Thief, Black Mage, White Mage)...there's a lot of potential for "team fighters". Pokemon and Fire Emblem would be particularly good sources of these team fighters; you can have various Pokemon Trainers who train two or more Pokemon, and the Fire Emblem lords could tag team with some of their notable companions. Like Chrom, Robin, & Lucina, Ike & Sorin, Roy & Lilina, Alm & Celica, or Marth & Caeda. Honestly, this should be the norm for FE fighter slots, since FE heavily focuses on bonds and teamwork.

[Flere210]

I would replace all the pokemons for trainers whit 3 pokemon each. It's also a way to not waste slots on fucking Jigglypuff that has not been relevant for 20 years. 

For other series, i think it only work if the character transform or if there is some mechanich that support it. Thenonly FE game where i would do that is awakening. For party based games i would consider the Ice Climber approach instead. There should be at least a couple of DK character doing that imo.

[Fabulously Olivier]

9 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

DK Crew (Tiny, Lanky, Chunky), Elibe Lords (Lyn, Eliwood, Hector), X & Zero, Light Warriors (Warrior, Thief, Black Mage, White Mage)...there's a lot of potential for "team fighters". Pokemon and Fire Emblem would be particularly good sources of these team fighters; you can have various Pokemon Trainers who train two or more Pokemon, and the Fire Emblem lords could tag team with some of their notable companions. Like Chrom, Robin, & Lucina, Ike & Sorin, Roy & Lilina, Alm & Celica, or Marth & Caeda. Honestly, this should be the norm for FE fighter slots, since FE heavily focuses on bonds and teamwork.

That would be my overall direction for much of Smash in general. I'd go further and say no solo Pokemon rep. 

Add Pikachu to Pokemon Trainer.

Giovanni - Mewtwo, Meowth, Rhyhorn, etc.

Cynthia - Lucario, Mylotic, etc.

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

since FE heavily focuses on bonds and teamwork

Which is why Seth can solo Sacred Stones by himself. So much for teamwork, right?

Also, what warrants Sothis having 4 stars? I beat her on my second attempt. Sukapon, however...

[Dai]

1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Which is why Seth can solo Sacred Stones by himself. So much for teamwork, right?

Also, what warrants Sothis having 4 stars? I beat her on my second attempt. Sukapon, however...

She seemed pretty hard to me. Took about a half dozen attempts or so. And, well. She is a goddess.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Edelgard, Claude, and Dimitri really should have promoted to 4 star spirits. 

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Which is why Seth can solo Sacred Stones by himself. So much for teamwork, right?

That's not the way it was designed. Sure, you can play it that way, but the way the devs wanted it was using multiple units to work together to take out the enemy. So it being designed around teamwork makes sense to me.

[Lord_Brand]

I mean, Robin's Final Smash and one of their victory animations practically beg for Robin to be paired up with Chrom in a tag team duo. Chrom could have that same FS and victory animation. Pairing off the FE fighters next time would be a great way to set them apart:

• Marth & Caeda
• Alm & Celica
• Roy & Lilina
• Lyn, Eliwood, & Hector
• Ike & Sorin
• Chrom/Lucina & Robin/Morgan
• Corrin & Azura
• Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri, & Claude

More than twice the FE reps, yet no additional slots used, and with a heck of a lot more variety in weapons and movesets.

Since we're discussing FE teams, how about Owain, Inigo, and Severa? Owain uses a sword and tome, Inigo uses a sword and axe, and Severa uses a sword and bow. Four of their variants reference different possible fathers with costume and hair colors, two reference fellow Awakening kids, and one would be Odin/Laslow/Selena from Fates.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Lord_Brand

[Perkilator]

Here’s my realistic wishlist for FP Vol. 2.

[Flere210]

Sirfetch'd is an option now that i think about it. I suppose he can swap the leek for the item.

[Perkilator]

I was wondering…if Arle got into Smash, do you think SEGA would allow a mix between Compile era music and SEGA era music?

[Lord_Brand]

I don't see why not. What I wonder about Arle is: Would they find a way to implement Puyo Pop mechanics somehow?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Lord_Brand

[NinjaMonkey]

20 hours ago, Dai said:

She seemed pretty hard to me. Took about a half dozen attempts or so. And, well. She is a goddess.

I did it in two, which is the least I've taken for a four-star spirit.