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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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while we're deliberating online, christ's sake, the "which byleth is canon" argument is over, thank you very much

 

EDIT: since apparently i was unclear and someone needed to get in a parthian shot, the stupid byleth fight is over. thank you.

 

Edited by Integrity

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Yeah I was surprised at him not being a gunner too. One of Brawler's moves is the 'Exploding' Side Kick (if you've never seen it, it's just Falcon Punch without the falcon motif), but that doesn't cut it. Meanwhile Gunner has a lot of exploding moves along with one that is very literally a bomb drop. I guess the developers felt self conscious about their choice when they recommended playing a match with only the X-Bomb item to get something akin to a bomberman experience.

I'm sure they can think of a good moveset for bomberman. It's just trying to partner up with Konami that's the real issue. Konami has been virtually out of gaming news since a little over a year ago where they released a contra game nobody likes and something about a castlevania mobile game. Between that and the complete lack of any announced titles, something's up with those guys, and it's not the pandemic.

Well yeah, their whole "we're no longer doing games, now it's pachinko with shameless fanservice!" stunt didn't exactly go over well with their established fandom. Their controversial decisions made over the years with the Metal Gear, Castlevania, and Bomberman franchises hasn't helped matters either. I think it's safe to say Konami's glory days are over unless they get their act together and remember what it means to be a video game development company. Their generosity in regards to content in Smash is a start, but they have a ways to go.

My recommendation is that they take a look at what fans liked about the classic titles and rebuild from there. Instead of this Lords of Shadow continuity reboot, they need to revisit the classic Castlevanias, perhaps give us a new account of classic Simon's battle against Dracula. Even just an HD 3D remaster in the style of, say, Bloodstained would go over well, methinks.

As for Metal Gear, I think that one could use a reboot that cuts out all the cloning and other kudzu plot elements and focuses on the stealth elements fans liked so much about the original and Solid.

With Bomberman R, they didn't exactly screw everything up as the gameplay is pretty Bomberman classic, but I question the necessity of, say,

Spoiler

turning Pretty Bomber into the Bombers' long-lost sister, when she was previously White's love interest, at least when she isn't a villain (and sometimes even when she is).

The redesign of Bagular is also questionable. I would suggest a reboot, but the series' canon is so nebulous that there probably isn't a point in doing so. A "back-to-basics" title with the Five Dastardly Bombers might be a good way to get the series back on track. A rerelease of the classic titles might be a good idea, too.

I think Goemon fans would like to see that series get more exposure, too. Nowadays Westerners are far more comfortable with Japanese weirdness. In that case, I'd recommend a rerelease of the SNES titles along with Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon and Goemon's Great Adventure, similar to my suggestion for Bomberman. After that, they could try a new entry, taking advantage of modern tech to create a truly breathtaking 3D adventure in pseudo-medieval Japan.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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2 hours ago, Seazas said:

That's a terrible counterargument. I don't want a "waifu to marry" but it's a fact that Female Byleth has more at the moment with an entire character given to you just for picking a female version.

More popularity, more support options, more official artwork and more priority. Male Byleth being prioritized is an outlier and always was ever since Three Houses dropped which led to him being vastly overshadowed. You brought up Warriors being a spinoff as a counterargument yet Smash Bros is more of a non canon spinoff with the most outdated viewpoints. Like how it prioritized Male Corrin, lmao.

What character can you only get with female Byleth?

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10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

What character can you only get with female Byleth?

I think he’s talking about Sylvain. Which isn’t much of an argument as being able to recruit Sylvain immediately as F!Byleth is more so a joke if anything

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I think he’s talking about Sylvain. Which isn’t much of an argument as being able to recruit Sylvain immediately as F!Byleth is more so a joke if anything

Ah. I thought there was some kind of locked character like Jeritza or Gilbert were only available on female Byleth playthroughs, which would be a significant difference.

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Well, that certainly escalated quickly. 

I've seen Steve and I gotta say, I'm still not impressed. Time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath.

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7 minutes ago, Integrity said:

so how about that stephen minecraft vs sans undertale huh

Is that a thing? I know there was a rivalry among fans for Steve or Banjo but that's obviously solved by now.

Taking joke posts seriously is tight!

2 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I'm not sure I follow. XD who the hell is Sans?

From Undertale. There's a Sans Mii costume in the game.

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44 minutes ago, Florete said:

From Undertale. There's a Sans Mii costume in the game.

That explains it. Never cared about the Mii's personally. Still, thanks nonetheless. 

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2 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I'm not sure I follow. XD who the hell is Sans?

Am i missing context? How is it possible for someone not to know about Undertale or Sans at this point?
_____
Anyways, I like Steve's move set, he's got a lot of creative options. Honestly many even op but we're gonna find out once people get to play him.

On 10/3/2020 at 10:06 PM, Spookilator said:

Just a quick question; which would you rather have?

A. House of the Dead-themed Spirit Event

B. Dead Rising-themed Spirit Event

C. Plants vs. Zombies-themed Spirit Event

How-a bout, typing of the dead?

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Steve's moveset and details are the best in the game. The community's overhyping him however just like what happened with Hero.

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7 minutes ago, Shrow said:

Am i missing context? How is it possible for someone not to know about Undertale or Sans at this point?
_____
Anyways, I like Steve's move set, he's got a lot of creative options. Honestly many even op but we're gonna find out once people get to play him.

Dead serious, thank you.

Also, as I've mentioned, his mobility will really determine his worth. Speed is just too necessary in Ultimate.

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8 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Also, as I've mentioned, his mobility will really determine his worth. Speed is just too necessary in Ultimate

Preeecisely!
His edgeguarding won't matter if he loses every neutral and can't get the enemy off the stage in the first place.
I am gonna make a hard read here and assume he's gonna be nutty in doubles regardless of his speed.

Edited by Shrow

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4 minutes ago, Shrow said:

Preeecisely!
His edgeguarding won't matter if he loses every neutral and can't get the enemy off the stage in the first place.
I am gonna make a hard read here and assume he's gonna be nutty in doubles regardless of his speed.

Honestly, that's something I dont like about Ultimate, speed bias is real.

That could be true, but doubles is always broken!

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Steve's design is probably one of my favorite movesets in the entire roster - he actually feels more like a Rivals of Aether character than a Smash character as he has stage control, interesting movement options, and synergy in his moveset. Most smash movesets are "Neutral special is a projectile, side special moves you forward, up special makes you only go up".

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On 10/7/2020 at 5:49 PM, RomanFlour said:

Steve's design is probably one of my favorite movesets in the entire roster - he actually feels more like a Rivals of Aether character than a Smash character as he has stage control, interesting movement options, and synergy in his moveset. Most smash movesets are "Neutral special is a projectile, side special moves you forward, up special makes you only go up".

There are variants to that, but yes, there is a certain pattern many special sets tend to follow by merit of what's intuitive for the control map. Generally, N and D Specials will be moves you'd feel comfortable using in a standing position, such as projectiles, charge-up moves, or defensive moves. D Specials additionally tend to be moves you'd use on the ground more often. S Specials are moves you'd naturally use while running, dashing, or moving forward in air, hence a lot of forward momentum attacks (though there isn't a shortage of projectiles in this category, either, as Link and Samus can attest). And of course U Specials are primarily designed for recovering, with the exceptions of Yoshi and Jigglypuff who already have superior double jumps and thus have less need for recovery moves (though I would probably re-jig their movesets to include some anyway).

That said, it does feel nice when different specials are connected (like with Olimar's Pikmin Pluck, Pikmin Throw, and Pikmin Order). And Steve easily sets the record for most intricately interconnected special set ever, primarily focused on his Mine N Special. Context sensitivity is a novel concept for SSB Specials, and Steve's tri-fold N Special opens my eyes to the possibility of other fighters having context-sensitive specials as well. I also appreciate that he's the second fighter with a Shield Special; they really need to make those a standard part of the moveset template.

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3 hours ago, Spookilator said:

Do you think we MIGHT get another reveal at or near the Game Awards? Just curious.

I hope so. The previous Game Awards from 2019 did get a lot of hate from a lot of Nintendo fans from a lack of DLC Fighter Pass Reveal (this was before Byleth was been announced) including more 1st Party title announcements as well. I do think the community from The Game Awards might have talked to Nintendo to maybe do some forgiving to their fanbase by show off Challenger Pack 8 Fighter (or 9 incase if the 8th one was been announced in the future before The Game Awards 2020 started) including 1st Party Titles as well to please the Nintendo fans this time.

Edited by King Marth 64

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Steve's pretty alright. I had some time to play him and against him and a lot of what I was worried about ended up being pretty tame.  A lot of times I tried to place a block offstage and either it wouldn't generate or it would and I would fall past it. I feel like the move is begging to be tweaked so that you never fall past your own block. And I think somebody needs to write a textbook of explanation for where and when you can place blocks because I can't make sense of it and Sakurai's explanation is woefully incomplete. I also wish Steve had a proper tumble animation, because it just looks like his walking and jumping animation and I have no idea if I should go up for another hit or if I'm going to have an anvil or minecart dropped on me.

His minecart is really good for, among other things, recovery but it requires iron. Between that and the anvil attack, I think a lot of Steve's mining concerns are just collecting iron rather than gold or diamonds. The minecart is also very goofy because you can ram somebody's shield and jump out as it forces a grab while they're still in shieldstun. I would laugh if not for the fact that it gets kind of hard to wiggle out and save yourself offstage if you play characters that have very little vertical recovery. Making a move that's functionally "unblockable" and can disproportionately kill characters like Doc seems very lame to me. But yeah this guy loses hard to rush down. He has pretty pitiful out of shield options, and hates being offstage. So I definitely don't think he's overpowered or annoying.

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I did managed did see some changes that were shown from Version 9.0.1. They did fixed some of the glitches from Steve had such as Blocks knocked Samus and Dark Samus off the stage. Also, they did patched one of Steve's Victory Pose that did with the Victory Meat that had sparked the internet and Nintendo did noticed the Meat in the Victory Pose that was mentioned by GameXplain.

October 22nd Edit: Fixing the Patch Version number. 

Edited by King Marth 64
Fixing

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On 10/19/2020 at 1:01 PM, Glennstavos said:

Making a move that's functionally "unblockable" and can disproportionately kill characters like Doc seems very lame to me. But yeah this guy loses hard to rush down. He has pretty pitiful out of shield options, and hates being offstage. So I definitely don't think he's overpowered or annoying.

Poor poor Doc, he didn't deserve that slander!

Anyways, I figured rushdown would be a major weakness of his (shocking, I know) 

Curious, how Is his air speed? Is it good or not?

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8 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Poor poor Doc, he didn't deserve that slander!

Anyways, I figured rushdown would be a major weakness of his (shocking, I know) 

Curious, how Is his air speed? Is it good or not?

It's bad. About on par with Min Min and marginally better than Kirby. Like Mega Man his air speed and walk speed are near identical so it feels consistent spamming the sword while being on the ground or in the air. And of course his jump height is the worst in the game. His run speed is just as bad. About on par with Byleth and Zelda's running speed, but his initial dash length provides no burst of speed like them or most characters. His saving grace is the freedom of which he can put out a hitbox with his sword and hatchet while on the move. Those are very quick swipes with low endlag. So I bet good players will have a tendency to walk in neutral so that they can mine on the go and slash the sword when the opponent approaches.

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12 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

they did patched one of Steve's Victory Pose that did with the Victory Meat

Even watching the video, I don't get what was wrong with it in the first place.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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5 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Even watching the video, I don't get what was wrong with it in the first place.

It was unintentionally had the steak aimed placed at Steve's private part area by accident mentioned by GameXplain. Nintendo had to be altered to fix the issue that was going on in the internet when there were other people turned this turned into a meme.

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