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Lightchao42

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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He look a bit like he's designed for people who don't know how to play the game and are just mashing buttons XD

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Hollow Bastian is disappointing. I detest stages that are basically just Battle Field but with a cinematic in the background. Let me fight on an actual section of Hollow Bastian, not just look at it like it's an episode of Boundary Break. The Dive into the Heart idea is a nice touch though, even if it's also functionally useless as a stage mechanic.

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Sora is cool. So the impression I got is, Sora was the real ballot winner all along? Bayonetta was said to the winner among "realizable" candidates, so Sakurai wasn't lying about that.

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They really added Sora with no Disney content whatsoever. Not even Donald and Goofy spirits.

Inb4 "but the Mickey Mouse keychain!"

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So happy! I was either hoping for Sora, Pheonix Wright, or Calyrex with its steeds. And Sakurai has done the impossible. What a way to end Smash. I got four of my favorite characters as DLC: Byleth, Hero, Pyra/Mythra, and now Sora. Even better the Kingdom Hearts coming to the Switch!!! So excited! Now, if you excuse me, I need to go finish Melody of Memory.

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i screamed so much my throat's never hurt this bad before, and probably my whole neighborhood heard me, but it's worth it

Edited by Yexin

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4 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Sora is cool. So the impression I got is, Sora was the real ballot winner all along? Bayonetta was said to the winner among "realizable" candidates, so Sakurai wasn't lying about that.

Welp, I'm going to make you feel old now. That was six years ago. Bayonetta was the ballot winner for SSB4. She got into base Ultimate.

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So, it looks like it was Sora after all. Well, I did say they needed someone to send it all off with a bang, and boy howdy, did they ever pick the right kid for the job. Interesting that the DLC launches in 13 days...

Maybe Crash will have his chance in the next Smash, whenever that is...

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On 9/27/2021 at 5:46 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

If Disney was willing to play ball on this one then I'll eat my hat. 

How does the hat taste?

I think Sora is a pretty good character to end things on. He's not everyone's cup of tea and he really did't need to bring yet another counter, but Sora is still one of the bigger gaming icons thats also popular with the smash crowd. 

The trailer itself could have been more flashy though, but all in all i'm happy with the reveal.

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4 minutes ago, Sasori said:

How does the hat taste?

Did Disney play ball, though? There's no Disney here.

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So to give some opinions on his moveset, I really like how his combo attacks make him play like he does in his own game. He's not knocking people away, but he is laying into them with multiple chaining attacks. In a funny way it looks almost like he'll be played similar to Bayonetta.

I really like his neutral special. Always thinking of a Sora moveset, the question was always how to represent basic magic spells without making his moveset entirely composed of them, and what they went with, basically cycling through them with each move, is not only a really interesting way to approach an attack, but also really representative of how skills work in most Kingdom Hearts game (Sora has to recharge them briefly between each use). Though I don't see much point in having the display showing what spell he's going to use be only at high damage (I think they said that). Why not just have it  visible all the time?

His side special looks really cool. Darting all around the place makes for a very versatile move that can play a lot of mindgames with opponents. Though, I'm a bit surprised they didn't make it his special like Pikachu. I guess they wanted to be able to combo into an up special in itself (like Bayonetta *cough* *cough*), but it seems his recovery is already good enough as is with an almost Yoshi powered midair jump. And the up special they went with is just sort of generic. I think they could have easily made Sonic Blade his up special and given him something else as his side special. But I guess I'll have to play him and see how his up special actually feels. It looks generic, but it could feel like a fun move to use.

Down speical is a mother flipping counter. This is a let down. And I'm more predisposed to counters than the average Smash fan. They mention the counter works like it does in Sora's own game, but which Kingdom Hearts game has counter as a mechanic!? I've played them all, and I'm sure it's in some of them, but it ain't something I associate with Sora in the slightest. At the very least they could have made it the Reflect spell which actually is a counterlike move I associate with Sora. There're way more things that they could have done here that seem like they'd be more useful and more interesting than a counter. It doesn't even look like it's a particularly interesting counter.

11 minutes ago, Florete said:

Did Disney play ball, though? There's no Disney here.

Their name is in the copyright.

Edited by Jotari

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43 minutes ago, Florete said:

They really added Sora with no Disney content whatsoever. Not even Donald and Goofy spirits.

Inb4 "but the Mickey Mouse keychain!"

Sakurai did said earlier in his Awards Ceremony that he does not want to add any characters that originated outside of video games in Super Smash Bros. series. Super Smash Bros. series is for video game debut originated characters only.

Plus, I'm kinda little bit disappointed, but I'll take it. I didn't originally want Sora to join in due to we already have enough Square Enix reps in and I'm not a big Kingdom Hearts fan. I was hoping a 2nd SNK Franchise Rep would have been Challenger Pack 11 due to SNK being the only 3rd Party Company without a 2nd 3rd Party Franchise Rep since we did get Kazuya from Tekken as the 2nd Bandai Namco Franchise Rep along with Steve as 2nd Microsoft Franchise Rep and Hero as the actual 2nd Square Enix Franchise Rep (plus, Sephiroth as the 2nd Final Fantasy rep was ok) for the entire Fighters Pass.

Also, I wasn't expecting that we get less Mii Fighter Costumes reveal, not even a new single Square Enix Mii Fighter Costume in Round 11 as well.

Edited by King Marth 64

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Not interested in the least in Sora. His addition makes it clearer than ever Sephiroth was the real mistake of this DLC wave. We did not need two Square JRPG representatives, and Sora at least adds a new franchise to Smash representation.

The only joys I take from Sora's addition, is that he now longer will come up time and again in Smash speculation And that Square, barring maybe 2B, no longer has any realistic candidates to be added into Smash.

Now is the time for Smash to rest, and let the years pass by. How will things change, such that it influences the new additions of the eventual Smash 6?

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Seems like it was just a bad popularity game than anything. Half of it were great surprise though like Steve and Pyra/Mythra, half the rest was just surfing on the trend of the moment.
Not that one cannot got with the other, Cloud and Sephiroth, Corrin and Byleth were great fighters, but it's sad to see that half of it was just 'we recently had a game, let's put the MC there.'

Sora, freaking Sora, from a franchise that is both a mess and half-dead and buried.(1 & 2 are great go play them, Twilight Town isn't that much of a nightmare but that might be my brain repressing memories..)

Oh well.

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1 minute ago, B.Leu said:

Seems like it was just a bad popularity game than anything. Half of it were great surprise though like Steve and Pyra/Mythra, half the rest was just surfing on the trend of the moment.
Not that one cannot got with the other, Cloud and Sephiroth, Corrin and Byleth were great fighters, but it's sad to see that half of it was just 'we recently had a game, let's put the MC there.'

Sora, freaking Sora, from a franchise that is both a mess and half-dead and buried.(1 & 2 are great go play them, Twilight Town isn't that much of a nightmare but that might be my brain repressing memories..)

Oh well.

I'd argue even KH 1 and 2 have aged very poorly. KH was never that good.

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14 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Sora, freaking Sora, from a franchise that is both a mess and half-dead and buried.(1 & 2 are great go play them, Twilight Town isn't that much of a nightmare but that might be my brain repressing memories..)

Isn't it still one of the biggest jrpg series out there with deep ties to the biggest media company out there?

As far as relevancy goes its hard to argue Sora's undeserved. 

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Years of KH2 fans begging them to not give Sora floaty combat and even Smash Bros will not hear our pleas. And that shot of the mickey keychain, you know Sakurai is just making a statement. He can put whatever he wants in his game and he will make any concession. Can't help but stare at that stage and song list. Dive to the Heart has just official concept art of the other characters. And not a single KH mii fighter. Even if they're stuck using original stuff, I feel like we could have gotten more out of this collaboration. Even the CG trailer falls back strictly on a Smash setting. I'm also doubtful they can add more KH related stuff in the next game. ff7's situation wasn't remedied until Sephiroth but I'm not counting on a second KH character ever getting in unless KH4 introduces a totally new protagonist.

Hey, I like that he's here! Kingdom Hearts really is one of the strangest yet widely popular franchises out there, so it deserves to be in Smash as much as any other icon. I am worried about playing doubles on launch week though. Sonic blade alongside Octoslash/Photon Edge. It's going to be a nightmare trying to block the full onslaught and punish. I just wish I got my organization XIII mii outfit, or anything holding a damned keyblade. The biggest win today is that it's over. No Fighter's Pass 3. Sakurai spends the next 18 months on anything other than coordinating with stingy rights holders. Maybe he'll make a new game? Or maybe nintendo just dropped a development kit for the Super Switch and demands the next Smash as a launch title in 2023. Ugh. Either way, I'm sure he's relieved that this one is over.

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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4 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Years of KH2 fans begging them to not give Sora floaty combat and even Smash Bros will not hear our pleas. And that shot of the mickey keychain, you know Sakurai is just making a statement. He can put whatever he wants in his game and he will make any concession. Can't help but stare at that stage and song list. Dive to the Heart has just official concept art of the other characters. And not a single KH mii fighter. Even if they're stuck using original stuff, I feel like we could have gotten more out of this collaboration. Even the CG trailer falls back strictly on a Smash setting. I'm also doubtful they can add more KH related stuff in the next game. ff7's situation wasn't remedied until Sephiroth but I'm not counting on a second KH character ever getting in unless KH4 introduces a totally new protagonist.

Hey, I like that he's here! Kingdom Hearts really is one of the strangest yet widely popular franchises out there, so it deserves to be in Smash as much as any other icon. I am worried about playing doubles on launch week though. Sonic blade alongside Octoslash/Photon Edge. It's going to be a nightmare trying to block the full onslaught and punish. I just wish I got my organization XIII mii outfit, or anything holding a damned keyblade. The biggest win today is that it's over. No Fighter's Pass 3. Sakurai spends the next 18 months on anything other than coordinating with stingy rights holders. Maybe he'll make a new game? Or maybe nintendo just dropped a development kit for the Super Switch and demands the next Smash as a launch title in 2023. Ugh. Either way, I'm sure he's relieved that this one is over.

I hope Sakurai wasn't personally in the chair arguing licensing rights. Because that very much should not have to be his job or responsibility.

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By the way. I know you guys are dying to make threads like "Who's the best DLC inclusion" and "What was the best reveal trailer", but maybe let this one sit for a few days. Maybe even until he releases in two weeks and we can try him out for ourselves?

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I hope Sakurai wasn't personally in the chair arguing licensing rights. Because that very much should not have to be his job or responsibility.

I'm certain he's at least in the meeting room where it happens. His literal job as game director is deciding how he's going to assemble the parts and pieces he has to work with, so he's certainly got a stake in what the pieces are in the first place. He would come into the meeting room with a list of the most important things (aesthetics, stage elements, music, etc) that he would like to see and the legal team tries to coordinate the best deal they can.

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56 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Sakurai spends the next 18 months on anything other than coordinating with stingy rights holders.

Nope! Turns out Smash is getting a gatcha game, because mobile is a totally legitimate gaming sector in Japan, not scummy and ill-regarded as pale imitation as in the West. All the fighting in Smash that you love, except in a diminished form, and now with daily grinding and powercreep. Also, expect brand-new additions to Smash, most of which will cater to Japanese tastes b/c they spend the money, so sorry Crash & Doomguy fans! If obscure Super Robot Wars can have a gatcha with a bazillion different licenses, then Smaaaaaash! can do the same!

-I'm joking! Mostly, Nintendo isn't too big on gatcha, but again, mobile is a legitimate market in Japan, I give a nonzero chance of it happening. And if such a thing were to happen, hopefully Sakurai wouldn't be involved.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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None of the lyrical KH songs. But...my sanctuary.

 

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Nope! Turns out Smash is working on a gatcha game, because mobile is a totally legitimate gaming sector in Japan, not scummy and ill-regarded as pale imitation as in the West. All the fighting in Smash that you love, except in a diminished form, and now with daily grinding and powercreep. Also, expect brand-new additions to Smash, most of which will cater to Japanese tastes b/c they spend the money, so sorry Crash & Doomguy fans! If obscure Super Robot Wars can have a gatcha with a bazillion different licenses, then Smaaaaaash! can do the same!

-I'm joking. Mostly, Nintendo isn't too big on gatcha, but again, mobile is a legitimate market in Japan, I give a nonzero chance of it happening. And if such a thing were to happen, hopefully Sakurai wouldn't be involved.

From my perspective Nintendo is huge on gacha, they just don't develop a whole lot of games on the platform. While they've only produced six mobile games in the last five years, the latest four have all had gacha microtransactions. While the first two attempted their own, late 2000s notion of how mobile games work. And that's not counting the dozen or so pokemon games, I don't dare google how many are like that. We are in a Post-Iwata world. Nintendo has absolutely written design documents for a theoretical Smash mobile game, and it's hard to say whether Sakurai has seen them. After all, Sakurai's development team are merely contracted to work on Smash, they don't own the property.

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I suspect someone on Squire Enix sat Sakurai down and shared that blackmail material they had on Disney that allows them to get away with Kingdom hearts. Its the only way Disney could have agreed to both Sora, and the Mikey logo.

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I both was expecting Sora and wasn't expecting Sora. On the one hand, from what I've seen (I haven't played Kingdom Hearts), he seemed a natural fit for Smash Bros. On the other hand, the sheer amount of collaboration required made it extremely unlikely. But, this is Sakurai and Nintendo: they somehow managed to navigate the minefield of disputes between Kojima and Konami needed to bring back Solid Snake for Ultimate.

I can both believe that it really was the final Smash Bros. Ultimate announcement, and yet, at the same time, I can easily believe it.

 

One thing I will say is that there's no way they will really be able to make a bigger Smash Bros. game than Ultimate (and if they do, it will undermine Ultimate being, well, Ultimate), so, if they do decide to continue the Smash Bros. series (which they almost certainly will because of how much money it makes them), I hope that they start fresh rather than try to make a "Smash Bros. More Ultimate".

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

One thing I will say is that there's no way they will really be able to make a bigger Smash Bros. game than Ultimate (and if they do, it will undermine Ultimate being, well, Ultimate), so, if they do decide to continue the Smash Bros. series (which they almost certainly will because of how much money it makes them), I hope that they start fresh rather than try to make a "Smash Bros. More Ultimate".

I think most people treat "ultimate" as just another advertising adjective,  they don't seriously think on it formal meaning "final" or from the Latin origins which translate as "to come to an end".

Starting fresh would be nice, and Smash's roster has gotten unwieldy with so many characters. And yet, Pokemon has continued on, despite its own nods of concern towards competitive play and its bloated numbers. The key difference, is licensing. Smash has to renegotiate old ones and bargain for new ones. Keeping it Nintendo All Stars with a side dish of third parties stopped working soon after Brawl opened the door and was it worth opening?.

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