Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I love how they swapped out the usual KO camera for a more Kingdom Hearts slow motion pan on the final hit in Classic Mode. Did Sakurai even mention this in his presentation? It's too bad it doesn't happen for the usual Stock match, I'm guessing for only Stamina. Although is it just me or do Sora's hit sound effects sound off? They don't sound like that keyblade in the source material. Did Sakurai fail to secure even that much from Disney?

Regarding universal counters, personally I hope it doesn't happen. Not spreading them into every matchup makes them feel unique when they do exist. I feel like we've only just reached a Smash Bros game where counters are approaching an appropriate level of balance. You're left much more open for mis guessing a counter. Even with the game's atrocious input delay, the opponent is going to punish you for that. I like it. Getting killed by an unpredictable counter, that can feel lame. But this is a game where I feel like I lose half my stocks to a raw Fsmash - something I cannot typically punish the opponent for attempting. The biggest application for counters is always going to be offstage. Recovery moves usually have hitboxes, so you just slip down there and intercept them from reaching the ledge. The Shield + B input would be impossible in that scenario. Your feet need to be on the ground to pull up your shield. So you would create a game in which every counter is guesswork rather than a tool to consider. I'm not into that change.

Plus Shield parrying essentially serves the same purpose, but it's much harder to use and lets you punish with whatever you want. Now that's a good change.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Lightchao42]

Sakurai's second-to-last Famitsu column has been released, and it talks about Sora's inclusion. You can read the summaries here and here.

Basically, the team always wanted to include Sora, but there were never plans to include him until Sakurai happened to meet a Disney representative at a game awards show. Where have I heard that before? Sakurai doesn't say what show it was, but the Japan Game Awards 2019 is a possible candidate since Ultimate and KHIII both won awards there (which happened September 12-15). Further negotiations with Disney and Square before and during development were predictably complicated, but they managed to add Sora anyhow.

Fighters Pass 2 was originally supposed to have only five characters, but Sora was added at the last minute. This suggests that FP2 was largely finalized by the time Sora was put on the table. Additionally, since there's evidence that Sephiroth and Kazuya's positions were switched during development*, it seems Sephiroth was originally going to be the final character.

Lastly, Sakurai reiterates that Sora was the most requested character on the ballot. Banjo & Kazooie also placed very high in the ballot, which surprised Sakurai, so we can contribute that to their inclusion.

*In the data, Kazuya comes before Pyra and Mythra while Sephiroth comes after.

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Sakurai's second-to-last Famitsu column has been released, and it talks about Sora's inclusion. You can read the summaries here and here.

Basically, the team always wanted to include Sora, but there were never plans to include him until Sakurai happened to meet a Disney representative at a game awards show. Where have I heard that before? Sakurai doesn't say what show it was, but the Japan Game Awards 2019 is a possible candidate since Ultimate and KHIII both won awards there (which happened September 12-15). Further negotiations with Disney and Square before and during development were predictably complicated, but they managed to add Sora anyhow.

Fighters Pass 2 was originally supposed to have only five characters, but Sora was added at the last minute. This suggests that FP2 was largely finalized by the time Sora was put on the table. Additionally, since there's evidence that Sephiroth and Kazuya's positions were switched during development*, it seems Sephiroth was originally going to be the final character.

Lastly, Sakurai reiterates that Sora was the most requested character on the ballot. Banjo & Kazooie also placed very high in the ballot, which surprised Sakurai, so we can contribute that to their inclusion.

*In the data, Kazuya comes before Pyra and Mythra while Sephiroth comes after.

Him being the most voted character in a poll released years ago, but then Sora only getting in because he happened to bump into a Disney exec seems somewhat incongruous. We're meant to believe that he knew Sora was literally the most wanted character for the game yet he had no plans of actively trying to make it happen and it only came about due to happenstance?

Speaking of Sora, I'm finding it very hard to confirm kills with him. Seems I can rack enemies up to over 150% yet still have major problems landing that final blow. His most reliable kill move actually seems to be his up special, which is pretty safe to perform as you can combo right into his side special, but it still pretty situational to hit with. I wish Thunder had more kill potential. I find it by far to be the worst of his magic spells as it barely ever hits the enemy and when it does it doesn't even do that much  damage.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Sounds very hollywood. Most requests don't make it past the agent. But if you can have a chat with the actor himself, it can skip all of those barriers. Because now it's you pitching the idea instead of a go-between who lacks all the passion behind the idea. We call it "the elevator pitch". You never know when you're going to have a chance meeting with somebody that can make your dream project come true. I remember a Suda 51 interview where he describes hearing about the elevator pitch for the first time when he had to work with EA as a publisher. But maybe it's not such a foreign concept if Sakurai can get Sora out of it. Nice work!

Edited October 20, 2021 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Lightcosmo]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

His most reliable kill move actually seems to be his up special

OoS Upb is bonkers for Sora. 

[King Marth 64]

I managed to completed the World of Light and rescued all the playable fighters yesterday. I have about 5 Spirits remaining (I didn't get the three Metroid Dread Spirits yet) and nearly completed the Adventure Section in Challenges.

Edited October 21, 2021 by King Marth 64

[Fabulously Olivier]

So do y'all believe the leaks that Netherrealm could be working on a Warner Bros smash clone with Batman, Scooby Doo, etc.?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

So do y'all believe the leaks that Netherrealm could be working on a Warner Bros smash clone with Batman, Scooby Doo, etc.?

Isn't this the same week that people are speculating they're doing a new Killer Instinct?

Heck, this is the same year where some were expecting them to announce a "Marvel vs DC" at E3, ending the era of Marvel vs Capcom games.

The truth is that they finished MK11 this year, and we don't know what's next. It seemed last year there would be more than two seasons of DLC, but COVID scales everything back. But despite everything people think there's yet another game just waiting to be announced. Whatever they're going to work on, I don't think they'd drop their unique Mortal Kombat - esque design for a smash clone. That's like Sakurai deciding Smash 6 will drop everything to be a Street Fighter clone. There's no reason it can't be done, but certainly no reason to do it in the first place.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Isn't this the same week that people are speculating they're doing a new Killer Instinct?

Heck, this is the same year where some were expecting them to announce a "Marvel vs DC" at E3, ending the era of Marvel vs Capcom games.

The truth is that they finished MK11 this year, and we don't know what's next. It seemed last year there would be more than two seasons of DLC, but COVID scales everything back. But despite everything people think there's yet another game just waiting to be announced. Whatever they're going to work on, I don't think they'd drop their unique Mortal Kombat - esque design for a smash clone. That's like Sakurai deciding Smash 6 will drop everything to be a Street Fighter clone. There's no reason it can't be done, but certainly no reason to do it in the first place.

This one is based on an actual trademark called "Multiversus."

Edited October 24, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

This one is based on an actual trademark called "Multiversus."

My point is that because we don't know what this particular studio is working on, this is the only time where a ridiculous "leak" can thrive. The leaker (who named himself realleakeractually, sounds legit), didn't even suggest that name for the game. Somebody else just noticed that patent out of the hundreds of patents WB filed in the past few months that's vague enough to be appropriate for a fighting game. It's still a "dude, trust me" brand of rumor. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Lord_Brand]

A Warner Bros. Smash-style game certainly sounds interesting. You've got Looney Tunes, DC, Hanna-Barbera, and Cartoon Network to pull from for fighters. And any game that lets us pit badasses like Batman and Samurai Jack against each other would be worth at least a cursory glance. Just thinking about it has me brainstorming a roster:

Spoiler

• Bugs Bunny
• Lola Bunny
• Daffy Duck
• Elmer Fudd
• Yosemite Sam
• Wile. E. Coyote
• Tazmanian Devil
• Batman
• Catwoman
• Joker
• Harley Quinn
• Poison Ivy
• Mr. Freeze
• Superman
• Wonder Woman
• Robin
• Starfire
• Raven
• Cyborg
• Beast Boy
• Deathstroke
• Tom & Jerry
• Scooby-Doo & Shaggy
• Dexter
• Johnny Bravo
• Cow & Chicken
• The Powerpuff Girls
• Ed, Edd n' Eddy
• Courage the Cowardly Dog
• Buck Tuddrussel
• Grim
• Numbuh One
• Samurai Jack
• Scotsman
• Ashi
• Ben Tennyson

Though Activision-Blizzard may be in some hot water, it's hard to deny a Smash game featuring their expansive suite of series and characters - Crash, Spyro, Skylanders, The Lost Vikings, Warcraft, Pitfall, Diablo, Overwatch - would also be worth checking out. For those of us disappointed by no Crash in Smash, this would be the next best thing.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Perkilator]

If there's one thing I'm glad has never happened during Ultimate's life cycle, it's fearmongering that if Crash did get in, they'd base him purely on his Japanese design and only take inspiration from his Japanese localization (not to say that it's not a possibility).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 10/24/2021 at 10:07 PM, Lord_Brand said:

A Warner Bros. Smash-style game certainly sounds interesting. You've got Looney Tunes, DC, Hanna-Barbera, and Cartoon Network to pull from for fighters. And any game that lets us pit badasses like Batman and Samurai Jack against each other would be worth at least a cursory glance. Just thinking about it has me brainstorming a roster:

Here's another radical turn - Warner Brothers also owns the film rights to the Harry Potter universe. Imagine Hermione fighting Shaggy, or Voldemort versus Batman. It'd be the crossover that makes us ask "have crossovers gone too far?".

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Voldemort versus Batman

I'm pretty sure that happened in the Lego Batman movie.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Jotari

[Lord_Brand]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:55 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's another radical turn - Warner Brothers also owns the film rights to the Harry Potter universe. Imagine Hermione fighting Shaggy, or Voldemort versus Batman. It'd be the crossover that makes us ask "have crossovers gone too far?".

But much like Sora in SSBU, they'd have to negotiate with the actual owner, in this case J.K. Rowling, to make that happen. Film rights =/= rights to use the character in a video game.

It recently occurred to me that a Disney Smash game could also in theory make use of Marvel and Star Wars. Imagine Goofy, Spider-Man, and Darth Vader throwing down in a 2D platform brawler.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Perkilator]

Say Sora was CP5 instead of Byleth and someone else was CP11. Who would you pick for that spot? Personally, I'd pick Dr. Eggman.

[Lord_Brand]

I don't know that I'd switch Sora out of P11, though I'd probably have added a P12 and made that Sora. But if I'd had total control over the Fighter's Pass  (barring Assist Trophy deconfirms like Krystal and Zero), my picks for the DLC fighters probably would have been:

Fighter's Pass 1

• Crash Bandicoot
• Hero
• Banjo & Kazooie
• Rayman
• Dr. Eggman
• Mega Man X

Fighter's Pass 2:

• Spyro the Dragon
• Doom Slayer
• Sephiroth
• Pyra & Mythra
• Shantae
• Sora

[Perkilator]

Shame they're not doing completely new Spirit Events anymore. There's a lot of recent releases that could've done with one:

• NEO The World Ends with You
• The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles
• Pokemon Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl
• SMT V
• Danganronpa Decadance
• ...and probably more

For anyone out of the loop:

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've just got the milestone for 5000 battles. I looked it up and these go on until 50,000. I'm not making it that high. Not even if the next Smash is ten or twenty years away. Bet I could make 10000 though. Look forward to my update on this situation in 2025.

[Perkilator]

You know, Crash deserves better than to be stuck with a hellhole like Activision

He's a character I think deserves to be in Smash right next to Sora

[Lord_Brand]

3 hours ago, Perkilator said:

You know, Crash deserves better than to be stuck with a hellhole like Activision

He's a character I think deserves to be in Smash right next to Sora

Who would be the ideal alternative, though?

Definitely agree, for both him and Spyro. Given how popular Crash is in Japan, and how well his recent games have been doing, I'm still surprised he didn't make it in. I can't help but to wonder if maybe he was slated for Smash until AB's scandal prompted Nintendo to swap him out for one of their own characters.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Who would be the ideal alternative, though?

Anywhere that's far away from Bobby Kotick, please. I wouldn't mind seeing Crash and Spyro make their way back home, to Naughty Dog and Insomniac respectively. Then again, it would leave both characters under Sony's aegis, leaving future Switch appearances doubtful. Tough call.

[Perkilator]

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Who would be the ideal alternative, though?

Maybe THQ Nordic? There the closest I can think of.

[Lord_Brand]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Anywhere that's far away from Bobby Kotick, please. I wouldn't mind seeing Crash and Spyro make their way back home, to Naughty Dog and Insomniac respectively. Then again, it would leave both characters under Sony's aegis, leaving future Switch appearances doubtful. Tough call.

Naughty Dog really isn't much better nowadays, honestly. Even Insomniac, I'd be dubious about.

The most ideal outcome would be for Crash to end up with a new indie company formed from almuni from the old Naughty Dog days. Though I do think the recent devs (Vivendi, Beenox, Toys for Bob) have been handling Crash quite well. What we really need is a major overhaul of Activision-Blizzard itself.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[King Marth 64]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:18 AM, Perkilator said:

You know, Crash deserves better than to be stuck with a hellhole like Activision

He's a character I think deserves to be in Smash right next to Sora

It could be possible that Crash was going to be planned as a Mii Fighter Costume in Mii Fighter Costume Round 11 then scrapped before that Activison Blizzard lawsuit happened since Round 11 is the lowest amount of the set in Ultimate's DLC. I definitely think Nintendo might have told Sakurai to scrap the crash Mii Fighter Costume when the lawsuit began since Sakurai did put Dante, poor Llyod, Doom Slayer, poor Shantae, and some of the other highly requested characters in the Mii Fighter Costumes for pleasing the fans and I know that Crash was the only highly requested character to have a Lawsuit Controversy to his company happened.

I'm so glad that Crash isn't part of the DLC list since he's not my ideal pick of a Fighter for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. But, Sora was my very least hyped DLC Fighter since I didn't voted him in the Fighter Ballot (I did voted Eight from Dragon Quest VIII for my ideal 2nd Square Enix Franchise rep after Cloud was announced for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U back then) nor played any of the Kingdom Hearts games.

By the way, I managed to complete all the Challenge Boards and so far that I managed to receive all 1,511 Spirits as of right now. (I need to get that last DLC Spirit that I don't have was the Chozo Soldier from Metroid Dread)

Edited December 6, 2021 by King Marth 64