Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

pretty sure that's an omega form of the find mii stage from sm4sh 3ds.

For a moment I thought you said the Miiverse stage. Which reminds me, how will they work that? Preset messages?

All stages are returning right? For some reason I'm looking forward to Pictochat. Any stages anyone will be happy to see again?

[thecrimsonflash]

I was so happy to hear that big blue is back, it was one of my favorite stages in brawl.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

17 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

pretty sure that's an omega form of the find mii stage from sm4sh 3ds.

edit: never mind, after checking, the palette seems about the same (accounting for hd conversion and extra effects) and they could have removed the walls, but I can not be certian.

I suppose it could be some early HD recreation that doesn't have the castle elements set up yet. I legit did not remember what you were talking about until I googled it. 

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

All stages are returning right? For some reason I'm looking forward to Pictochat. Any stages anyone will be happy to see again?

They've only promised that all characters are returning. But we've seen so many classic stages thus far that I wouldn't rule out the possibility. If the Gamexplain list is accurate then we're looking at a total stage list almost twice as large as Smash Wii U's 46 stage roster was at launch. And we've known about this game for a week. 

[Anomalocaris]

24 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For a moment I thought you said the Miiverse stage. Which reminds me, how will they work that? Preset messages?

All stages are returning right? For some reason I'm looking forward to Pictochat. Any stages anyone will be happy to see again?

Not all stages are returning.

• Pac-Maze is probably not coming back due to having a 3DS-related gimmick. It could be retooled to not use that, but it seems like third-party franchises are only getting one stage each anyway, so I don't expect Windy Hill Zone to return either since Green Hill Zone is in.
• Pyrosphere is probably not coming back since its main attraction is now playable. Alfonzo could always fill in, of course.
• Flat Zones 1 and 2 got rolled together into Flat Zone X, so it just makes sense to only bring back their combo form. PictoChat 1 and 2 might also get rolled together into one stage.
• Sector Z is also unlikely, since Corneria is basically the same stage with a different background.
• I don't think Golden Plains or Mario Bros. will come back thanks to being extremely gimmicky.
• Hanenbow is pretty reviled, and so might not return simply due to nobody liking it. Even 75M has its fans.
• On a similar note, vertical scrolling stages like Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls are probably out. I feel like we'd have seen either one of them by now if they were in.
• Miiverse probably won't come back thanks to Miiverse itself being dead. That being said, there's a simple way it could work; Splatoon 2 actually has its own native Miiverse-in-all-but-name, so I could see them doing that for Ultimate if they were so inclined.

As for stages I'm happy to see again, I've always liked Battleship Halberd thanks to the neat Combo Cannon hazard, so I'm looking forward to that. Summit as well, I loved feeding people to the fish. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Anomalocaris

[NinjaMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

• Hanenbow is pretty reviled, and so might not return simply due to nobody liking it.

I thought it was fine, and don't see why people dislike it.

[thecrimsonflash]

17 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I thought it was fine, and don't see why people dislike it.

but would you demand it return?

there are those who would ask for 75m back due to being an enjoyable concept.

Edited June 17, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Interdimensional Observer]

32 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Not all stages are returning.

Darned...

32 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Flat Zones 1 and 2 got rolled together into Flat Zone X, so it just makes sense to only bring back their combo form. PictoChat 1 and 2 might also get rolled together into one stage.

But but but I liked Flat Zone 1 and would like it separate! Although how hard would it be for them to just consolidate the stage into one and then let you decide whether you want Flat Zone 1 or 2 or X?

32 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Hanenbow is pretty reviled, and so might not return simply due to nobody liking it. Even 75M has its fans.

How is Hanenbow worse than "duh duh duh duuuuhhh!"? Retro Kong makes 75M terrible, Hanenbow lacked such an overpowering gimmick, and the platform layout is arguably better.

32 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Sector Z is also unlikely, since Corneria is basically the same stage with a different background.

Speaking of my cheap consolidation idea, this would be another great stage to use it for. Just take Corneria's Great Fox and let you choose a background to set it to.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[thecrimsonflash]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

How is Hanenbow worse than "duh duh duh duuuuhhh!"? Retro Kong makes 75M terrible, Hanenbow lacked such an overpowering gimmick, and the platform layout is arguably better.

but at least you can enjoy the gimmick of 75m being a recreation of a classic game, hanenbow has nothing compelling at best, and a very aggravating gimmick and poor platform placement at worst. you are at best indifferent toward hanenbow, and at worst you detest it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

but at least you can enjoy the gimmick of 75m being a recreation of a classic game, hanenbow has nothing compelling at best, and a very aggravating gimmick and poor platform placement at worst. you are at best indifferent toward hanenbow, and at worst you detest it.

And that is what exactly? The only gimmick I see is the Hanenbows making music on the platforms, and they don't interact at all with the combatants. It was rather creative too, if leaving the stage without an actual soundtrack.

[thecrimsonflash]

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And that is what exactly? The only gimmick I see is the Hanenbows making music on the platforms, and they don't interact at all with the combatants. It was rather creative too, if leaving the stage without an actual soundtrack.

It is more so the platforms rotating when you hit them, making it hard to play consistently, I forgot they even made music, combined with the multiple levels it produces weird angles which make finding where to attack and considering the position of an attack far harder to figure out on the fly, it is incredibly hectic for such a passive stage.

[NinjaMonkey]

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

but would you demand it return?

I would, yes, just to be a contrarian.

25 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

It is more so the platforms rotating when you hit them, making it hard to play consistently, I forgot they even made music, combined with the multiple levels it produces weird angles which make finding where to attack and considering the position of an attack far harder to figure out on the fly, it is incredibly hectic for such a passive stage.

Well, don't hit them, then.

[Armagon]

As a follow up to that Bayo post, i'm gonna be listing all the known buffs and nerfs. Once again, remember that none of this is final. I'm listing characters, even if they don't have any known buffs or nerfs as i plan to update this post as time goes on. In fact, @Lightchao42, i give you permission to edit this into the OP, that way it doesn't get buried in the coming pages of discussion and we can easily update it as time goes on

Mario

Spoiler

•  Dash attack travels further and deals more damage (8% → 9%).
•  Neutral attack does more damage (8% → 9%) and knockback.
•  Side tilt deals more damage (7% → 8.8%).
•  Up tilt has more ending lag, preventing it from chaining into itself as easily.
•  Down tilt has more base knockback and a more horizontal launch angle, lowering its combo potential.
•  Pummel is faster.
•  Pummel deals less damage (now dealing 1%).
•  Down throw has altered knockback and a more horizontal angle, making it a bit harder to perform combos.
•  Down throw deals more damage (5% to 6%).
•  Super Jump Punch requires a longer travel distance before being able to sweetspot a ledge.

Luigi

Spoiler

•  Luigi has a new side tilt, which appears to be faster than his previous one.

Peach

Spoiler

Lol nothing yet

Bowser

Spoiler

•  Bowser seems to benefit the most from the universal implementation of the 3-frame jumpsquat, vastly improving his ground-to-air transitioning.
•  Down tilt can now trip opponents.
•  Pummel is faster.
•  Up throw is different as Bowser now hits opponents upwards inside his shell rather than his head. It also deals more damage (6.5% → 14.5%).

Dr.Mario

Spoiler

•  Dr. Mario has a new down aerial, a downward stomp, as opposed to a drill kick. Compared to the old down aerial, the stomp is faster and can meteor smash.
•  New down aerial is no longer a multi hitting move and the hitbox duration is shorter.

Rosalina & Luma

Spoiler

•  Rosalina's shield now covers Luma as well
•  Power Star pulls opponents in towards the multi-hitting star, making it more effective as a damage dealing attack. The Power Star itself also covers more area.

Bowser Jr.

Spoiler

Nothing

Yoshi

Spoiler

•  Back aerial has a faster startup.
•  The eggs from Egg Throw now bounce before they touch the ground.

Donkey Kong

Spoiler

•  Up smash can now hit grounded opponents.
•  Foward aerial is significantly faster.
•  Donkey Kong can now use Giant Punch in midair without going into free fall.

Diddy Kong

Spoiler

Nothing

Link

Spoiler

•  With the implementation of universal frame 3 jumpsquat, Link's aerial capabilities are improved compared to Super Smash Bros. 4.
•  The Master Sword is longer and larger than it was in previous installments, increasing Link's reach for his sword-based attacks.
•  Neutral attack's first hit can now jab lock.
•  Dash attack's sweetspot deals more damage.
•  When at 0% damage, the first swing of Link's forward smash will shoot out a spinning sword beam. This is in reference to numerous Zelda titles, including Breath of the Wild, in which Link's sword shoots out sword beams when he is at full health
•  Link's forward aerial's first hit appears to have set knockback. This makes it possible for it to lead into the second hit at all percentages.
•  Down aerial has significantly reduced landing lag, comparable to an L-canceled down aerial from Melee.
•  Due to Link's Clawshot being retired, he no longer has a grab aerial or a tether recovery.
•  Using the Bow while holding an arrow causes Link to fire two arrows in one shot for slightly increased damage.
•  Link can now reuse his double jump if hit during his Spin Attack.
•  Link can now bomb recover by taking out a remote bomb, Z-dropping, then detonating.

Zelda

Spoiler

•  Dash attack deals more damage and knockback.
•  Zelda has a new pummel, she stomps on opponent's shins. It is faster compared to her previous pummel.
•  Zelda can now move in the air when using Nayru's Love.
•  Din's Fire no longer leaves Zelda helpless when used in midair.
•  Farore's Wind starts up more quickly, and preserves much more momentum if used right after a jump.
  •  She can also act sooner after teleporting.

Shiek

Spoiler

•  Sheik has a new pummel, a kneekick. It is faster compared to her previous pummel.
•  Using Burst Grenade mid-air will no longer leave Sheik helpless afterwards.
•  Vanish no longer grants her invincibility right before executing the move.

King of Disrespect Ganondorf

Spoiler

•  Universal frame 3 jumpsquat significantly improves Ganondorf's ground-to-air maneuverability.
•  Neutral attack no longer has a sourspot.
•  Up tilt has significantly faster startup.
•  Down tilt's damage was greatly increased.
•  Ganondorf has a new forward smash, a downward sword slash. Compared to the previous forward smash, it has significantly improved range, and covers overhead.
•  Ganondorf's new forward smash has much more startup than his previous one.
•  Ganondorf has a new up smash, an overhead sword swing. Compared to the previous up smash, it has significantly improved range and duration, and covers around his body.
•  Ganondorf's new up smash has more endlag than the previous one.
•  Ganondorf has a new down smash, a low sword hilt thrust forward into a stab behind him. Compared to the previous down smash, it has a much lower hitbox placement allowing it to hit low crouching opponents, and lowers Ganondorf's hurtbox. It also now sends enemies at a semi-spike angle. The hitbox on the first hit that sent opponents forward and away from the second hit was removed.
•  All aerials have significantly lower landing lag (17 frames → 10 (neutral), 22 frames → 14 (forward), 19 frames → ?? frames (up/back), 26 frames → 21 (down)).
•  Up throw's damage was significantly increased.
•  Edge attack deals 2.5% increased damage (from 8% → 10.5%)
•  Warlock Punch deals more damage and is stronger.
•  Opponents released by trading attacks with Dark Dive during its grab now receive 8.4% damage.
•  Opponents can now escape aerial Flame Choke via button mashing, significantly hindering Ganoncide's utility while making it completely unsafe to use as it likely leaves Ganondorf unable to recover. (Ganondorf is literally unusable now)
•  Grounded Wizard's Foot deals more damage as it travels further and deals multiple hits near the end of the move. It also has significantly reduced endlag.
•  Beast Ganon deals 12.4% more damage (40% → 52.4%).
•  Dark Dive deals more damage. 13.8% -> 17.3%.
•  

Young Link

Spoiler

•  Neutral attack infinite is now a flurry of slashes that transition much faster, and has a finisher in the form of an ascending slash.
•  Like with Link's Bombs in Super Smash Bros. 4, the explosions from Young Link's Bombs do not damage him if they hit an opponent.

Toon Link

Spoiler

Nothing

Samus

Spoiler

•  Samus' roll is significantly faster.
•  Down smash deals more knockback.
•  Down aerial has much faster startup.
•  Pummel is slower.
•  Back throw deals significantly more knockback.
•  Charge Shot can now be charged mid-air. It can be cancelled by jumping or airdodging.
•  Super Missile travels faster and stalls before flying forward, similar to her Turbo Missile custom move from Super Smash Bros. 4.
•  Screw Attack KOs earlier and has less lag before she starts falling.
•  Bomb now explodes upon enemy contact.

Zero Suit Samus

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Kirby

Spoiler

•  Kirby's dash attack has reverted to its Melee iteration, where Kirby does a tackle identical to the "Burning" copy ability. It no longer goes off of ledges, and is overall stronger than his previous dash attack.
•  Forward smash sends Kirby further, improving its range.
  •  Forward smash has slightly higher ending lag.
•  Down smash has increased range and is more like its Brawl version, as the ends of the feet send opponents at a horizontal angle.
•  Kirby's neutral attack now has the ability to jab lock but with the first hit specifically.
•  Kirby can now Inhale and spit out projectiles like a fully charged Charge Shot from Samus. In addition, he can now heal himself when inhaling certain projectiles.
•  Stone has a faster startup and now deals 22.7%.
•  Hammer KOs even earlier when fully charged.

Meta Knight

Spoiler

Nothing yet

King Dedede

Spoiler

•  It appears King Dedede now has the ability to inhale and spit back Gordos from Gordo Throw.
•  King Dedede has a new Final Smash. The Final Smash features King Dedede taking his "Masked Dedede" appearance from Kirby Super Star Ultrabefore trapping opponents inside of a cage as he attacks them with a barrage of missiles and his Jet Hammer. This is better than his previous Final Smash, because the opponent can't escape from it.

Fox

Spoiler

•  Down tilt has more ending lag.
•  Fox can no longer stall his reflector.
•  Fox Illusion will immediately halt when it hits a shielded opponent. It also has more startup lag, and more ending lag when used on the ground.

Falco

Spoiler

•  Down aerial has reduced start-up (frame 16 → frame 10).
•  Blaster shoots faster and has significantly lower ending lag on the ground.
•  Reflector has significantly reduced ending lag.

Wolf

Spoiler

Wolf has been freed but details regarding his buffs and nerfs are unknown

Pikachu

Spoiler

•  Pikachu has a new neutral aerial: it releases an electric surge around itself in an all fours stance with its tail pointing upward, which hits multiple times, much like Mewtwo's neutral aerial. It has better combo ability with much lower landing lag.
•  Pikachu's back aerial ends much sooner with much less landing lag.
•  Pikachu's down aerial can meteor smash opponents.
•  Up throw deals more damage (4% -> 5.2%)
•  Thunder is stronger.

 

Jigglypuff

Spoiler

•  Up air endlag is noticeably reduced.
•  Back air endlag is reduced.
•  When using an uncharged Rollout, Jigglypuff will only roll once, speeding up the animation. This improves its safety.

Pichu

Spoiler

•  Forward tilt can trip opponents.
•  Forward tilt has an electric effect, and causes 0.7% recoil damage to Pichu.
•  Dash attack is the same, but has noticeably less endlag.
•  Thunder meteor smashes targets hit high above Pichu and into the electric blast, akin to Pikachu's.
•  Thunder now does 0.1% less recoil damage, bringing it down to 2.9%.
•  Pichu now has a Final Smash, which is similar to Pikachu's: it has Pichu dash quickly around the stage at different angles while surrounded in a ball of electricity, then launching opponents with an electric blast at the end of the move as the ball disappears.

Mewtwo

Spoiler

•  Forward tilt has an altered animation, giving it more horizontal reach and deals more knockback.
•  Up smash's effect area has been enlarged.
•  Shadow Ball travels slightly slower.
•  Confusion now allows Mewtwo to act before captured opponents can, allowing for combos.
•  Confusion is performed slower, making it more punishable, and also halts Mewtwo's momentum, worsening it as a recovery move.

Pokemon Trainer

Spoiler

•  The Stamina mechanic has been removed, eliminating the necessity of switching out Pokémon to restore their power.
•  Squirtle has a much faster running speed.
•  Squirtle's up smash activates faster and reaches much higher, along with being slightly stronger.
•  Squirtle's forward smash is much stronger, even when uncharged: 14% → 19.3%).
•  Ivysaur's forward tilt reaches further and does far more damage.
•  Ivysaur's down smash has greatly increased reach.
•  Squirtle's full jab combo does slightly more damage: 9% → 9.4%.
•  Squirtle's forward tilt does slightly more damage: 6% → 6.2%.
•  Bullet Seed now has a finishing blow.
•  Water Gun charges much faster and covers significantly more distance, able to reach the entirety of Battlefield when fully charged and having enough pushing force to KO off-stage opponents by pushing them into the blast zone.
•  Withdraw is much faster and stronger: 8% → 11%
  •  Withdraw now stops on impact, preventing it from racking up further damage.
•  Pokémon Change can now be used in the air and is much quicker. Like in Brawl, it also offers brief invincibility upon switching out, though the quicker switch time allows it to potentially combo into another Pokémon's moves, or function somewhat as an alternative "air dodge". It also allows the user to essentially choose the recovery that suits a situation best.
  •  Spamming Pokémon Change will grant no invincibility frames for a period of time.
  •  Charizard's mid air jumps carry it higher than before.
  •  Charizard's jab combo now requires specific timing of each input to deal maximum damage.
  •  Charizard's up tilt has lower vertical range.
  •  Charizard's forward smash is slightly stronger: 17% → 19%.
  •  Neutral aerial causes Charizard's tail flame to grow, making it easier to sweetspot. Its overall speed and power has also been increased (sweetspot/sourspot: 12% → 15% / 9% → 12%).
  •  Charizard's back aerial has greatly decreased start up.
  •  Charizard's down aerial has increased ending lag.
  •  Flamethrower has a significantly larger hitbox. Additionally, its size does not decrease as fast, and it is still usable at its smallest.
  •  Flare Blitz is significantly stronger (19% → 26%) and deals even more knockback.
  •  Flare Blitz causes Charizard to enter a tumble animation for a longer period of time after impact.
  •  Fly's distance has greatly increased, allowing Charizard to recover to the ledge of Battlefield from the stage's lowest point.
  •  Now that it is once again part of the Pokémon Trainer rotation, Charizard's down special, Rock Smash, has been replaced with Pokémon Change, effectively eliminating Rock Smash from its moveset.

Lucario

Spoiler

•  Double Team's counterattack activates faster.

Greninja

Spoiler

•  Water Shuriken is much smaller when fully charged.
•  Substitute activates faster, allowing for an easier hit.

Captain Falcon

Spoiler

•  Raptor Boost now has a slightly altered animation, and seems to gain Captain Falcon super armor, if the move connects.

Ness

Spoiler

•  Ness dashes more quickly.
•  Jab now connects more reliably.
•  Up Air now deals more damage.
•  PSI now emits from Ness's hands in his Neutral Air, similar to Zelda's magic. This increases his range.
•  Back air now deals more damage.
•  Down air now has reduced endlag.
•  Ness back throw is stronger. (how did this get buffed?)
•  Knockback on down throw is stronger, reducing his chance of doing combo setups.
•  Ness' pummel is noticeably slower.
•  Ness no longer free falls after using PK Flash in the air.
•  PK Flash moves more quickly and travels much longer.
•  PK Fire starts up more slowly.
•  PK Fire hitbox is larger.
•  PSI Magnet is now slightly larger, with a hitbox similar to Lucas's version of the move.

Lucas

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Ice Climbers

Spoiler

•  Down Smash covers more horizontal ground when together.
  •  It does not hit both sides when solo.
•  The partnering Ice Climber cannot act when the leader is grabbed onto.
•  The partner is also unable to grab at all, and will taunt during the lead Ice Climber's throw. These changes were likely made to prevent throw setups perceived as unfair, such as moving Nana to setup an aerial spike after a down throw.
•  Down throw does slightly more damage (6% → 6.3%).
•  Ice Shot now damages the Ice Climbers when it's reflected back by a normal attack.
•  Popo can now save an offstage Nana with Belay. If done close enough to her, she will simply teleport back to him and the move will continue to be performed.

Marth

Spoiler

•  Dancing Blade now transitions to the next attack much faster than before.
•  Shield Breaker can now be manually angled, and he composes himself after performing the attack.
•  Marth's down aerial has less landing lag.

Roy's our Boy

Spoiler

•  As with Marth and Lucina's Dancing Blade, Double-Edge Dance transitions significantly faster into each hit.
•  Like with most non-storeable charge moves, Roy can now turn Flare Blade to the opposite direction upon releasing the move.

We like Ike

Spoiler

•  Up tilt has significantly reduced ending lag.
•  Neutral aerial has reduced startup (frame 12 → frame 10).
•  Forward aerial has reduced startup (frame 12 → frame 11).
•  Up aerial has reduced startup (frame 14 → frame 13).
•  All aerials have significantly reduced landing lag (neutral aerial 14 → 8, up aerial 15 → 9, forward aerial 18 → 14, back aerial 19 → 11 and down aerial 23 → 14).
•  Forward aerial has increased recovery and no longer autocancels in a short hop.
•  Eruption now produces multiple pillars of flames at high enough levels of charge.

Robin

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Lucina

Spoiler

•  Shield Breaker can be angled up or down.
•  Dancing Blade is significantly faster.

Everyone's favorite Lord Corrin

Spoiler

•  Corrin has a new pummel, a kneekick. It is additionally faster than his previous pummel.
•  Draconic Ascent halts at the end of the move instead of granting slight momentum, reducing its recovery potential.

Mr. Game&Watch

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Pit

Spoiler

•  Dash attack's animation is different. Pit lunges some further distance and is quicker.

Palutena

Spoiler

• •  Reflect Barrier has much quicker start-up.
•  Forward and up tilt move significantly faster with flashy new motion effects.

Pitoo Dark Pit

Spoiler

Nothing yet but given that he's an Echo of Pit, the buffs and nerfs will likely be the same

Wario

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Olimar

Spoiler

Nothing yet

R.O.B

Spoiler

•  Neutral aerial has more range.

Villager

Spoiler

•  Villager can now Pocket items using his net.
•  Villager's neutral infinite now has a finisher, a straight jab.

Wii Fit Trainer

Spoiler

•  Deep Breathing's initial speed appears to be faster.

Little Mac

Spoiler

•  Straight Lunge can now be canceled by shielding.
•  Like with most non-storeable charge moves, Straight Lunge can be unleashed at the opposite direction upon releasing the move.
•  KO Uppercut's new animation gives the move more vertical range, and also grants recovery distance if used in midair.
•  KO Uppercut now disappears if it is not used within 15 seconds.
•  Aerial Jolt Haymaker keeps more forward momentum, thus granting more distance. It also no longer renders Little Mac helpless.

Monado Boy Shulk

Spoiler

•  Neutral aerial appears to have been sped up.
•  Down aerial appears to have been sped up.
•  Monado Arts can now also be selected by holding the Special button, holding the stick in a direction, then releasing the Special button. His Monado Arts are mapped to the following: up for Smash, upper left for Jump, lower left for Speed, upper right for Buster, and lower right for Shield.

Duck Hunt

Spoiler

•  Duck Hunt's jab combo seems to be faster.
•  Duck Jump can now be acted out of, as in airdodges are now possible to use after using Duck Hunt's up special.
•  Up tilt appears to become active slightly faster.
•  Trick Shot appears to be slower and floatier, but does start farther forward.

Snake

Spoiler

•  Up tilt now shows a trail to visualize its once-deceptively large hitbox. Its horizontal range and knockback seems to have been reduced regardless.
•  Forward tilt is much weaker, doing around 13.6% when both hits connect.
•  Neutral aerial is slightly faster and has less ending lag.
•  Forward aerial is slightly faster.
•  Up throw has increased followup potential.
•  Remote Missile travels faster.

Sonic

Spoiler

•  Neutral aerial deals more damage: 12% → 15%.
•  It is harder to land both hits with Sonic's Up aerial.
•  Back aerial deals more damage: 14% → 16%.
•  Forward aerial, back aerial and down aerial have much less landing lag.
•  Sonic's up throw and forward throw have less knockback.
•  Down throw deals more damage: 7% → 10%.
•  Homing Attack deals more damage when charged: 12% → 15%.
•  Homing Attack has decreased start-up with the attack button pressed.
•  Homing Attack has more start-up.
•  Sonic cannot shield cancel his Spin Dash anymore. It also now stops upon hitting an opponent's shield.

Mega Man

Spoiler

•  Up smash (Spark Shock) has more active frames.
•  Leaf Shield has a faster startup, its leaves spin more quickly around Mega Man and do not vanish upon hitting opponents, and the shield can be thrown much faster.

Pac-Man

Spoiler

•  Dash attack now hits four times instead of three.
•  Pac-Man's grab appears to have significantly less ending lag. (so it's actually a grab this time and not a glorified taunt)
•  Down throw is performed significantly faster 
•  Bonus Fruit cycles significantly faster.
•  Pac-Jump's trampoline now causes any opponents that aren't the user to always fall helpless, regardless of the number of uses left on the trampoline itself
•  Pac-Jump's trampoline appears to be vulnerable to attacks, using up a use on hit.

Ryu

Spoiler

•  Ryu will always face his opponent in 1-on-1s, this makes it harder to make accidental inputs for his attacks.
  •  This makes him easier to be hit with Disable, and harder to use his back aerial.

Cloud

Spoiler

•  Neutral aerial has a smaller hitbox.
•  Up aerial's hitbox comes out later, preventing it from hitting grounded opponents.
•  Down aerial has a smaller vertical hitbox and has more lag.
•  Cloud can now grab the ledge at any point during Climhazzard's downward slash.
•  A fully charged Limit Break will lose its charge if it is not used within 15 seconds.

Bayonetta 

Spoiler

•  Held neutral aerial appears to have increased landing lag.
•  Forward aerial's knockback appears to have been altered. This means that the first hit of it can no longer combo into After Burner Kick.
•  Down aerial's knockback appears to have been lowered.
•  Bullet Climax's charge can no longer be cancelled by shielding, rolling, or air dodging.
•  If the first hit of Heel Slide is blocked by a shield, she will be unable to use the second hit.
•  Downwards After Burner Kick can no longer be autocancelled.
•  Witch Twist has increased startup; appears to be frame 6, as opposed to frame 4.
•  Witch Time no longer grants intangibility when used.
  •  Its duration has been lowered.
  •  It has increased ending lag and cannot be interrupted as early when whiffed.

Mii Brawler

Spoiler

•  Soaring Axe Kick's animation has been altered, and appears to be performed faster.

Mii Swordfighter

Spoiler

Nothing yet

Mii Gunner

Spoiler

Nothing yet 

 

[thecrimsonflash]

1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I would, yes, just to be a contrarian.

Well, don't hit them, then.

Yes, in a game where your attacks have a wide range and it is common to miss, it is so easy to not hit the floor, or wall, or ceiling, that's like saying "don't get hit" in a bullet hell game as advice to a new player, or even smash bros for that matter, what other great wisdom do you have, don't miss the other player when you attack, don't let your opponent get the smash ball?

Anyone with even a basic knowledge of cause and effect can tell, that is not possible.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Anomalocaris said:

Pac-Maze is probably not coming back due to having a 3DS-related gimmick.

What was the gimmick?

1 hour ago, Anomalocaris said:

I don't think Golden Plains or Mario Bros. will come back thanks to being extremely gimmicky.

Why would that stop them from coming back?

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

As a follow up to that Bayo post, i'm gonna be listing all the known buffs and nerfs. Once again, remember that none of this is final. I'm listing characters, even if they don't have any known buffs or nerfs as i plan to update this post as time goes on. In fact, @Lightchao42, i give you permission to edit this into the OP, that way it doesn't get buried in the coming pages of discussion and we can easily update it as time goes on

Mario

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dash attack travels further and deals more damage (8% → 9%).
•  Neutral attack does more damage (8% → 9%) and knockback.
•  Side tilt deals more damage (7% → 8.8%).
•  Up tilt has more ending lag, preventing it from chaining into itself as easily.
•  Down tilt has more base knockback and a more horizontal launch angle, lowering its combo potential.
•  Pummel is faster.
•  Pummel deals less damage (now dealing 1%).
•  Down throw has altered knockback and a more horizontal angle, making it a bit harder to perform combos.
•  Down throw deals more damage (5% to 6%).
•  Super Jump Punch requires a longer travel distance before being able to sweetspot a ledge.

Luigi

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Luigi has a new side tilt, which appears to be faster than his previous one.

Peach

  Reveal hidden contents

Lol nothing yet

Bowser

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Bowser seems to benefit the most from the universal implementation of the 3-frame jumpsquat, vastly improving his ground-to-air transitioning.
•  Down tilt can now trip opponents.
•  Pummel is faster.
•  Up throw is different as Bowser now hits opponents upwards inside his shell rather than his head. It also deals more damage (6.5% → 14.5%).

Dr.Mario

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dr. Mario has a new down aerial, a downward stomp, as opposed to a drill kick. Compared to the old down aerial, the stomp is faster and can meteor smash.
•  New down aerial is no longer a multi hitting move and the hitbox duration is shorter.

Rosalina & Luma

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Rosalina's shield now covers Luma as well
•  Power Star pulls opponents in towards the multi-hitting star, making it more effective as a damage dealing attack. The Power Star itself also covers more area.

Bowser Jr.

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing

Yoshi

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Back aerial has a faster startup.
•  The eggs from Egg Throw now bounce before they touch the ground.

Donkey Kong

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Up smash can now hit grounded opponents.
•  Foward aerial is significantly faster.
•  Donkey Kong can now use Giant Punch in midair without going into free fall.

Diddy Kong

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing

Link

  Reveal hidden contents

•  With the implementation of universal frame 3 jumpsquat, Link's aerial capabilities are improved compared to Super Smash Bros. 4.
•  The Master Sword is longer and larger than it was in previous installments, increasing Link's reach for his sword-based attacks.
•  Neutral attack's first hit can now jab lock.
•  Dash attack's sweetspot deals more damage.
•  When at 0% damage, the first swing of Link's forward smash will shoot out a spinning sword beam. This is in reference to numerous Zelda titles, including Breath of the Wild, in which Link's sword shoots out sword beams when he is at full health
•  Link's forward aerial's first hit appears to have set knockback. This makes it possible for it to lead into the second hit at all percentages.
•  Down aerial has significantly reduced landing lag, comparable to an L-canceled down aerial from Melee.
•  Due to Link's Clawshot being retired, he no longer has a grab aerial or a tether recovery.
•  Using the Bow while holding an arrow causes Link to fire two arrows in one shot for slightly increased damage.
•  Link can now reuse his double jump if hit during his Spin Attack.
•  Link can now bomb recover by taking out a remote bomb, Z-dropping, then detonating.

Zelda

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dash attack deals more damage and knockback.
•  Zelda has a new pummel, she stomps on opponent's shins. It is faster compared to her previous pummel.
•  Zelda can now move in the air when using Nayru's Love.
•  Din's Fire no longer leaves Zelda helpless when used in midair.
•  Farore's Wind starts up more quickly, and preserves much more momentum if used right after a jump.
  •  She can also act sooner after teleporting.

Shiek

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Sheik has a new pummel, a kneekick. It is faster compared to her previous pummel.
•  Using Burst Grenade mid-air will no longer leave Sheik helpless afterwards.
•  Vanish no longer grants her invincibility right before executing the move.

King of Disrespect Ganondorf

  Hide contents

•  Universal frame 3 jumpsquat significantly improves Ganondorf's ground-to-air maneuverability.
•  Neutral attack no longer has a sourspot.
•  Up tilt has significantly faster startup.
•  Down tilt's damage was greatly increased.
•  Ganondorf has a new forward smash, a downward sword slash. Compared to the previous forward smash, it has significantly improved range, and covers overhead.
•  Ganondorf's new forward smash has much more startup than his previous one.
•  Ganondorf has a new up smash, an overhead sword swing. Compared to the previous up smash, it has significantly improved range and duration, and covers around his body.
•  Ganondorf's new up smash has more endlag than the previous one.
•  Ganondorf has a new down smash, a low sword hilt thrust forward into a stab behind him. Compared to the previous down smash, it has a much lower hitbox placement allowing it to hit low crouching opponents, and lowers Ganondorf's hurtbox. It also now sends enemies at a semi-spike angle. The hitbox on the first hit that sent opponents forward and away from the second hit was removed.
•  All aerials have significantly lower landing lag (17 frames → 10 (neutral), 22 frames → 14 (forward), 19 frames → ?? frames (up/back), 26 frames → 21 (down)).
•  Up throw's damage was significantly increased.
•  Edge attack deals 2.5% increased damage (from 8% → 10.5%)
•  Warlock Punch deals more damage and is stronger.
•  Opponents released by trading attacks with Dark Dive during its grab now receive 8.4% damage.
•  Opponents can now escape aerial Flame Choke via button mashing, significantly hindering Ganoncide's utility while making it completely unsafe to use as it likely leaves Ganondorf unable to recover. (Ganondorf is literally unusable now)
•  Grounded Wizard's Foot deals more damage as it travels further and deals multiple hits near the end of the move. It also has significantly reduced endlag.
•  Beast Ganon deals 12.4% more damage (40% → 52.4%).
•  Dark Dive deals more damage. 13.8% -> 17.3%.
•  

Young Link

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Neutral attack infinite is now a flurry of slashes that transition much faster, and has a finisher in the form of an ascending slash.
•  Like with Link's Bombs in Super Smash Bros. 4, the explosions from Young Link's Bombs do not damage him if they hit an opponent.

Toon Link

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing

Samus

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Samus' roll is significantly faster.
•  Down smash deals more knockback.
•  Down aerial has much faster startup.
•  Pummel is slower.
•  Back throw deals significantly more knockback.
•  Charge Shot can now be charged mid-air. It can be cancelled by jumping or airdodging.
•  Super Missile travels faster and stalls before flying forward, similar to her Turbo Missile custom move from Super Smash Bros. 4.
•  Screw Attack KOs earlier and has less lag before she starts falling.
•  Bomb now explodes upon enemy contact.

Zero Suit Samus

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Kirby

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Kirby's dash attack has reverted to its Melee iteration, where Kirby does a tackle identical to the "Burning" copy ability. It no longer goes off of ledges, and is overall stronger than his previous dash attack.
•  Forward smash sends Kirby further, improving its range.
  •  Forward smash has slightly higher ending lag.
•  Down smash has increased range and is more like its Brawl version, as the ends of the feet send opponents at a horizontal angle.
•  Kirby's neutral attack now has the ability to jab lock but with the first hit specifically.
•  Kirby can now Inhale and spit out projectiles like a fully charged Charge Shot from Samus. In addition, he can now heal himself when inhaling certain projectiles.
•  Stone has a faster startup and now deals 22.7%.
•  Hammer KOs even earlier when fully charged.

Meta Knight

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

King Dedede

  Reveal hidden contents

•  It appears King Dedede now has the ability to inhale and spit back Gordos from Gordo Throw.
•  King Dedede has a new Final Smash. The Final Smash features King Dedede taking his "Masked Dedede" appearance from Kirby Super Star Ultrabefore trapping opponents inside of a cage as he attacks them with a barrage of missiles and his Jet Hammer. This is better than his previous Final Smash, because the opponent can't escape from it.

Fox

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Down tilt has more ending lag.
•  Fox can no longer stall his reflector.
•  Fox Illusion will immediately halt when it hits a shielded opponent. It also has more startup lag, and more ending lag when used on the ground.

Falco

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Down aerial has reduced start-up (frame 16 → frame 10).
•  Blaster shoots faster and has significantly lower ending lag on the ground.
•  Reflector has significantly reduced ending lag.

Wolf

  Reveal hidden contents

Wolf has been freed but details regarding his buffs and nerfs are unknown

Pikachu

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Pikachu has a new neutral aerial: it releases an electric surge around itself in an all fours stance with its tail pointing upward, which hits multiple times, much like Mewtwo's neutral aerial. It has better combo ability with much lower landing lag.
•  Pikachu's back aerial ends much sooner with much less landing lag.
•  Pikachu's down aerial can meteor smash opponents.
•  Up throw deals more damage (4% -> 5.2%)
•  Thunder is stronger.

 

Jigglypuff

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Up air endlag is noticeably reduced.
•  Back air endlag is reduced.
•  When using an uncharged Rollout, Jigglypuff will only roll once, speeding up the animation. This improves its safety.

Pichu

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Forward tilt can trip opponents.
•  Forward tilt has an electric effect, and causes 0.7% recoil damage to Pichu.
•  Dash attack is the same, but has noticeably less endlag.
•  Thunder meteor smashes targets hit high above Pichu and into the electric blast, akin to Pikachu's.
•  Thunder now does 0.1% less recoil damage, bringing it down to 2.9%.
•  Pichu now has a Final Smash, which is similar to Pikachu's: it has Pichu dash quickly around the stage at different angles while surrounded in a ball of electricity, then launching opponents with an electric blast at the end of the move as the ball disappears.

Mewtwo

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Forward tilt has an altered animation, giving it more horizontal reach and deals more knockback.
•  Up smash's effect area has been enlarged.
•  Shadow Ball travels slightly slower.
•  Confusion now allows Mewtwo to act before captured opponents can, allowing for combos.
•  Confusion is performed slower, making it more punishable, and also halts Mewtwo's momentum, worsening it as a recovery move.

Pokemon Trainer

  Reveal hidden contents

•  The Stamina mechanic has been removed, eliminating the necessity of switching out Pokémon to restore their power.
•  Squirtle has a much faster running speed.
•  Squirtle's up smash activates faster and reaches much higher, along with being slightly stronger.
•  Squirtle's forward smash is much stronger, even when uncharged: 14% → 19.3%).
•  Ivysaur's forward tilt reaches further and does far more damage.
•  Ivysaur's down smash has greatly increased reach.
•  Squirtle's full jab combo does slightly more damage: 9% → 9.4%.
•  Squirtle's forward tilt does slightly more damage: 6% → 6.2%.
•  Bullet Seed now has a finishing blow.
•  Water Gun charges much faster and covers significantly more distance, able to reach the entirety of Battlefield when fully charged and having enough pushing force to KO off-stage opponents by pushing them into the blast zone.
•  Withdraw is much faster and stronger: 8% → 11%
  •  Withdraw now stops on impact, preventing it from racking up further damage.
•  Pokémon Change can now be used in the air and is much quicker. Like in Brawl, it also offers brief invincibility upon switching out, though the quicker switch time allows it to potentially combo into another Pokémon's moves, or function somewhat as an alternative "air dodge". It also allows the user to essentially choose the recovery that suits a situation best.
  •  Spamming Pokémon Change will grant no invincibility frames for a period of time.
  •  Charizard's mid air jumps carry it higher than before.
  •  Charizard's jab combo now requires specific timing of each input to deal maximum damage.
  •  Charizard's up tilt has lower vertical range.
  •  Charizard's forward smash is slightly stronger: 17% → 19%.
  •  Neutral aerial causes Charizard's tail flame to grow, making it easier to sweetspot. Its overall speed and power has also been increased (sweetspot/sourspot: 12% → 15% / 9% → 12%).
  •  Charizard's back aerial has greatly decreased start up.
  •  Charizard's down aerial has increased ending lag.
  •  Flamethrower has a significantly larger hitbox. Additionally, its size does not decrease as fast, and it is still usable at its smallest.
  •  Flare Blitz is significantly stronger (19% → 26%) and deals even more knockback.
  •  Flare Blitz causes Charizard to enter a tumble animation for a longer period of time after impact.
  •  Fly's distance has greatly increased, allowing Charizard to recover to the ledge of Battlefield from the stage's lowest point.
  •  Now that it is once again part of the Pokémon Trainer rotation, Charizard's down special, Rock Smash, has been replaced with Pokémon Change, effectively eliminating Rock Smash from its moveset.

Lucario

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Double Team's counterattack activates faster.

Greninja

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Water Shuriken is much smaller when fully charged.
•  Substitute activates faster, allowing for an easier hit.

Captain Falcon

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Raptor Boost now has a slightly altered animation, and seems to gain Captain Falcon super armor, if the move connects.

Ness

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Ness dashes more quickly.
•  Jab now connects more reliably.
•  Up Air now deals more damage.
•  PSI now emits from Ness's hands in his Neutral Air, similar to Zelda's magic. This increases his range.
•  Back air now deals more damage.
•  Down air now has reduced endlag.
•  Ness back throw is stronger. (how did this get buffed?)
•  Knockback on down throw is stronger, reducing his chance of doing combo setups.
•  Ness' pummel is noticeably slower.
•  Ness no longer free falls after using PK Flash in the air.
•  PK Flash moves more quickly and travels much longer.
•  PK Fire starts up more slowly.
•  PK Fire hitbox is larger.
•  PSI Magnet is now slightly larger, with a hitbox similar to Lucas's version of the move.

Lucas

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Ice Climbers

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Down Smash covers more horizontal ground when together.
  •  It does not hit both sides when solo.
•  The partnering Ice Climber cannot act when the leader is grabbed onto.
•  The partner is also unable to grab at all, and will taunt during the lead Ice Climber's throw. These changes were likely made to prevent throw setups perceived as unfair, such as moving Nana to setup an aerial spike after a down throw.
•  Down throw does slightly more damage (6% → 6.3%).
•  Ice Shot now damages the Ice Climbers when it's reflected back by a normal attack.
•  Popo can now save an offstage Nana with Belay. If done close enough to her, she will simply teleport back to him and the move will continue to be performed.

Marth

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dancing Blade now transitions to the next attack much faster than before.
•  Shield Breaker can now be manually angled, and he composes himself after performing the attack.
•  Marth's down aerial has less landing lag.

Roy's our Boy

  Reveal hidden contents

•  As with Marth and Lucina's Dancing Blade, Double-Edge Dance transitions significantly faster into each hit.
•  Like with most non-storeable charge moves, Roy can now turn Flare Blade to the opposite direction upon releasing the move.

We like Ike

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Up tilt has significantly reduced ending lag.
•  Neutral aerial has reduced startup (frame 12 → frame 10).
•  Forward aerial has reduced startup (frame 12 → frame 11).
•  Up aerial has reduced startup (frame 14 → frame 13).
•  All aerials have significantly reduced landing lag (neutral aerial 14 → 8, up aerial 15 → 9, forward aerial 18 → 14, back aerial 19 → 11 and down aerial 23 → 14).
•  Forward aerial has increased recovery and no longer autocancels in a short hop.
•  Eruption now produces multiple pillars of flames at high enough levels of charge.

Robin

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Lucina

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Shield Breaker can be angled up or down.
•  Dancing Blade is significantly faster.

Everyone's favorite Lord Corrin

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Corrin has a new pummel, a kneekick. It is additionally faster than his previous pummel.
•  Draconic Ascent halts at the end of the move instead of granting slight momentum, reducing its recovery potential.

Mr. Game&Watch

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Pit

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dash attack's animation is different. Pit lunges some further distance and is quicker.

Palutena

  Reveal hidden contents

• •  Reflect Barrier has much quicker start-up.
•  Forward and up tilt move significantly faster with flashy new motion effects.

Pitoo Dark Pit

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet but given that he's an Echo of Pit, the buffs and nerfs will likely be the same

Wario

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Olimar

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

R.O.B

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Neutral aerial has more range.

Villager

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Villager can now Pocket items using his net.
•  Villager's neutral infinite now has a finisher, a straight jab.

Wii Fit Trainer

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Deep Breathing's initial speed appears to be faster.

Little Mac

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Straight Lunge can now be canceled by shielding.
•  Like with most non-storeable charge moves, Straight Lunge can be unleashed at the opposite direction upon releasing the move.
•  KO Uppercut's new animation gives the move more vertical range, and also grants recovery distance if used in midair.
•  KO Uppercut now disappears if it is not used within 15 seconds.
•  Aerial Jolt Haymaker keeps more forward momentum, thus granting more distance. It also no longer renders Little Mac helpless.

Monado Boy Shulk

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Neutral aerial appears to have been sped up.
•  Down aerial appears to have been sped up.
•  Monado Arts can now also be selected by holding the Special button, holding the stick in a direction, then releasing the Special button. His Monado Arts are mapped to the following: up for Smash, upper left for Jump, lower left for Speed, upper right for Buster, and lower right for Shield.

Duck Hunt

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Duck Hunt's jab combo seems to be faster.
•  Duck Jump can now be acted out of, as in airdodges are now possible to use after using Duck Hunt's up special.
•  Up tilt appears to become active slightly faster.
•  Trick Shot appears to be slower and floatier, but does start farther forward.

Snake

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Up tilt now shows a trail to visualize its once-deceptively large hitbox. Its horizontal range and knockback seems to have been reduced regardless.
•  Forward tilt is much weaker, doing around 13.6% when both hits connect.
•  Neutral aerial is slightly faster and has less ending lag.
•  Forward aerial is slightly faster.
•  Up throw has increased followup potential.
•  Remote Missile travels faster.

Sonic

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Neutral aerial deals more damage: 12% → 15%.
•  It is harder to land both hits with Sonic's Up aerial.
•  Back aerial deals more damage: 14% → 16%.
•  Forward aerial, back aerial and down aerial have much less landing lag.
•  Sonic's up throw and forward throw have less knockback.
•  Down throw deals more damage: 7% → 10%.
•  Homing Attack deals more damage when charged: 12% → 15%.
•  Homing Attack has decreased start-up with the attack button pressed.
•  Homing Attack has more start-up.
•  Sonic cannot shield cancel his Spin Dash anymore. It also now stops upon hitting an opponent's shield.

Mega Man

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Up smash (Spark Shock) has more active frames.
•  Leaf Shield has a faster startup, its leaves spin more quickly around Mega Man and do not vanish upon hitting opponents, and the shield can be thrown much faster.

Pac-Man

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Dash attack now hits four times instead of three.
•  Pac-Man's grab appears to have significantly less ending lag. (so it's actually a grab this time and not a glorified taunt)
•  Down throw is performed significantly faster 
•  Bonus Fruit cycles significantly faster.
•  Pac-Jump's trampoline now causes any opponents that aren't the user to always fall helpless, regardless of the number of uses left on the trampoline itself
•  Pac-Jump's trampoline appears to be vulnerable to attacks, using up a use on hit.

Ryu

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Ryu will always face his opponent in 1-on-1s, this makes it harder to make accidental inputs for his attacks.
  •  This makes him easier to be hit with Disable, and harder to use his back aerial.

Cloud

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Neutral aerial has a smaller hitbox.
•  Up aerial's hitbox comes out later, preventing it from hitting grounded opponents.
•  Down aerial has a smaller vertical hitbox and has more lag.
•  Cloud can now grab the ledge at any point during Climhazzard's downward slash.
•  A fully charged Limit Break will lose its charge if it is not used within 15 seconds.

Bayonetta 

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Held neutral aerial appears to have increased landing lag.
•  Forward aerial's knockback appears to have been altered. This means that the first hit of it can no longer combo into After Burner Kick.
•  Down aerial's knockback appears to have been lowered.
•  Bullet Climax's charge can no longer be cancelled by shielding, rolling, or air dodging.
•  If the first hit of Heel Slide is blocked by a shield, she will be unable to use the second hit.
•  Downwards After Burner Kick can no longer be autocancelled.
•  Witch Twist has increased startup; appears to be frame 6, as opposed to frame 4.
•  Witch Time no longer grants intangibility when used.
  •  Its duration has been lowered.
  •  It has increased ending lag and cannot be interrupted as early when whiffed.

Mii Brawler

  Reveal hidden contents

•  Soaring Axe Kick's animation has been altered, and appears to be performed faster.

Mii Swordfighter

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet

Mii Gunner

  Reveal hidden contents

Nothing yet 

 

How's the trasking on dark dive? I miss the days when it could be used as an actual attack.

[Anomalocaris]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

What was the gimmick?

Something about the Power Pellets only appearing on your own 3DS screen, to hide them from your opponents? I didn't actually play the 3DS version, but I do know that much.

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Why would that stop them from coming back?

It wouldn't necessarily, it's just that of all the stages that HAVEN'T been seen thus far in the Direct or the website, it seems they're trimming out a lot of the gimmick stages that completely change how the match is played. I personally suspect they're gone, but I could always be wrong.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

How's the trasking on dark dive? I miss the days when it could be used as an actual attack.

How's the what now? What is trasking?

1 minute ago, Anomalocaris said:

Something about the Power Pellets only appearing on your own 3DS screen, to hide them from your opponents? I didn't actually play the 3DS version, but I do know that much.

Actually, the Power Pellets appear for everyone. Opponents can destroy it. It's the ghosts that are the gimmick. If you're under the effects of a Power Pellet, the ghosts will be blue. For everyone else, they remain normal.

That can be retooled easily though.

[Anacybele]

Oh yeah, I really hope Mii Swordfighter gets a lot of buffs, I remember him being near dirt bottom of the Smash 4 tier list. I used him quite a bit due to my Frederick Mii having been made into one.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

How's the what now? What is trasking?

Actually, the Power Pellets appear for everyone. Opponents can destroy it. It's the ghosts that are the gimmick. If you're under the effects of a Power Pellet, the ghosts will be blue. For everyone else, they remain normal.

That can be retooled easily though.

Gah. Tracking. As in how close to you need to be to enemies to connect with the attack. I found it basically impossible in SSB4. And Brawl seemed to be a big downgrade from Melee too.

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Oh yeah, I really hope Mii Swordfighter gets a lot of buffs, I remember him being near dirt bottom of the Smash 4 tier list. I used him quite a bit due to my Frederick Mii having been made into one.

Mii Swordfighter, along with the Brawler and Gunner, actually don't exist on the tier-list anymore. 

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Gah. Tracking. As in how close to you need to be to enemies to connect with the attack. I found it basically impossible in SSB4. And Brawl seemed to be a big downgrade from Melee too.

Oh i don't know. All we know is that Dark Dive deals more damage right now.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Armagon said:

Mii Swordfighter, along with the Brawler and Gunner, actually don't exist on the tier-list anymore. 

Huh? Last I checked, they were all there. Though that was awhile ago...

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Huh? Last I checked, they were all there. Though that was awhile ago...

They used to be on the tier-list, yes, but because Miis are banned from competitive play, they are now unranked. Or rather, because custom moves are banned and the Miis are so poor without them and literally no one wants to use them competitively, the Miis went unranked. 

[NinjaMonkey]

26 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

what other great wisdom do you have

Get good.

Quote

don't let your opponent get the smash ball?

I was unaware that anyone besides me played with items on.

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Mii Swordfighter, along with the Brawler and Gunner, actually don't exist on the tier-list anymore. 

Oh i don't know. All we know is that Dark Dive deals more damage right now.

More damage is nice, it got more damage in SSB4 after the horrible nerf in Brawl (in exchange for being a better recovery and a punch) but it won't be worth much if actually landing a hit is next to impossible, Ganon's moveset in a nutshell I suppose. Now that Ganoncide has been effectively removed it might be more viable though (but not really for the right reasons).

Surely Zelda's Phantom has been given a buff? It's hard for it to be as bad as it was in SSB4. It really needs a store charge or something.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Jotari

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Surely Zelda's Phantom has been given a buff? It's hard for it to be as bad as it was in SSB4. It really needs a store charge or something.

Zelda can hold the charge once it's full and move around but i don't think it's the same as storing it. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Armagon