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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish


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Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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I hope it's going to be an another 1st Party Nintendo character be revealed as Challenger Pack 9. We do have too much 3rd Party Fighters in the DLC Roster side such as Fighters Pass Vol. 1 in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Edited by King Marth 64
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6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

what first-party fighter do you want them to add when there are so many good third-party choices left?

I agree that there's a lot of good 3rd parties left and would like to see more, but there's lots of first parties left to choose from:

Issac, Waluigi, Captain Syrup, Marx, Ribbon, Daroach, Skull Kid, Tingle, Vaati, Tetra, any of the BOTW champions/successors, Tiki, Ephraim, Hector, any FE main character that isn't a sword user again, Andy, Mike Jones, Captain Rainbow, Chibi-Robo, Starfy, Mallo, Galar Pokemon rep, Dixie Kong, many more characters that I can't think of at the moment.

The first party well is far from dry and I think it's reasonable for some people to want more of them too even if some are old, unpopular, niche, or even from unlocalized games. After all, character like Lucas, Roy, R.O.B, Ice Climbers, Game&Watch, etc. are part of the charm too.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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12 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I agree that there's a lot of good 3rd parties left and would like to see more, but there's lots of first parties left to choose from:

Issac, Waluigi, Captain Syrup, Marx, Ribbon, Daroach, Skull Kid, Tingle, Vaati, Tetra, any of the BOTW champions/successors, Tiki, Ephraim, Hector, any FE main character that isn't a sword user again, Andy, Mike Jones, Captain Rainbow, Chibi-Robo, Starfy, Mallo, Galar Pokemon rep, Dixie Kong, many more characters that I can't think of at the moment.

The first party well is far from dry and I think it's reasonable for some people to want more of them too even if some are old, unpopular, niche, or even from unlocalized games. After all, character like Lucas, Roy, R.O.B, Ice Climbers, Game&Watch, etc. are part of the charm too.

Well, okay. I'll add Krystal to that list. Mallow from SMRPG is owned by Square Enix though, just like Geno. Kind of a waste if you ask me, since it's not like SE has used them for anything outside of Mario RPGs. At this point they might as well just sell them to Nintendo so they can join the Kart/Party/Sports crew.

But, I think there are a lot of third-party candidates who are in much higher demand than, let's be honest, second bananas and B-list franchise protagonists. I see far more requests for Crash, Shantae, Eggman, etc. than I do for Andy or Captain Rainbow. Of that list, Waluigi, Isaac, and Skull Kid do get a lot of requests, but they're already Assist Trophies in SSBU, and until we get an official "Trophy Fighter" that confirms otherwise, that means they won't be joining the roster this time around (and the same goes for Krystal). But, let us not forget that Little Mac and Rosalina were once Assist Trophies too, back in Brawl. Come Smash 4, they made the leap to the playable fighter roster.

So, there is always hope that a future Smash installment will promote these oft-requested characters, just as Smash 4 did for Little Mac and Rosalina.

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2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Mallow from SMRPG is owned by Square Enix though, just like Geno. Kind of a waste if you ask me, since it's not like SE has used them for anything outside of Mario RPGs. At this point they might as well just sell them to Nintendo so they can join the Kart/Party/Sports crew.

I see why you think Mallo may have been a typo for Mallow, but it wasn't. And Pushmo is Intelligent Systems so there would be no issues adding him if Sakurai wanted to.

I agree that the characters are a waste in Squares hands though. Would be nice to see them even they got the Waluigi treatment of only appearing in party/sports games.

2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

But, I think there are a lot of third-party candidates who are in much higher demand than, let's be honest, second bananas and B-list franchise protagonists. I see far more requests for Crash, Shantae, Eggman, etc. than I do for Andy or Captain Rainbow.

For the record, I'm not claiming that these would be "better" choices, or even my own personal choices (still want Phoenix Wright or Lloyd Irving above all right now), just that they are indeed choices and if they got in Smash there would definitely be a fan or two eager for them along with probably gaining a whole bunch a new fans like Pit or some other relatively unknown characters have gotten after their inclusion in Smash, because just being in Smash is huge popularity boost regardless of who it is.

Also, I didn't exactly see much, if any, demand for Sephiroth as opposed to other Square reps, let alone other games in general, or someone like Min-Min who was pretty much in the same boat, along with the fact she's a second banana in her game (yes a lot speculated and requested her but that was AFTER the the announcement that there would be an ARMS rep, pretty much a non-existent amount before then), but both were pretty well recieved. No reason to assume some of these others unforseen first party characters wouldn't get the same reception. And even if they don't, well, smash fans are always gonna be salty regardless.

2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Of that list, Waluigi, Isaac, and Skull Kid do get a lot of requests, but they're already Assist Trophies in SSBU, and until we get an official "Trophy Fighter" that confirms otherwise, that means they won't be joining the roster this time around (and the same goes for Krystal). But, let us not forget that Little Mac and Rosalina were once Assist Trophies too, back in Brawl. Come Smash 4, they made the leap to the playable fighter roster.

So, there is always hope that a future Smash installment will promote these oft-requested characters, just as Smash 4 did for Little Mac and Rosalina.

The whole assist trophy argument seems equally as faulty as the old "spirits deconfirm fighters" one, only to have Min-Min prove otherwise. Only because there hasn't been a Assist Trophy promoted to fighter in DLC yet doesn't mean it won't happen. I'll believe that when Sakurai explicitly says it or when the DLC is completely finished.

EDIT: With all that said, disappointment is all I feel right now, even after defending first party choices.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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11 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Still holding out for Pyra/Mythra and Rex or Yuri Lowell! 

Any other sword user works as well. Xd

Looks like your wish got granted.

Also, I definitely knew that I was expecting some 1st Party Character for Challenger Pack 9. We finally got a 2nd and 3rd Xenoblade Chronicles rep and even a third Nintendo Switch debut character to join in the roster. I didn't expect Pyra and Mythra are counted as 2 seperate fighters since Sakurai did said that each DLCs only contains one fighter in the Fighter Passes in the past.

Edited by King Marth 64
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That's right, Pyra & Mithra are a 2-in-1 DLC! So now X & Zero or the Warriors of Light (a 4-in-1 fighter) are officially possible. Victor and Gloria as the Galarian Pokemon Trainers are also possible, to give SWSH some Smash rep. But, what if Zacian and Zamazenta are the playable Pokemon rather than the starters? I mean, who better to represent Sword & Shield, am I right? Then again, Dynamaxing was a major feature of SWSH, which they'd presumably want to represent in Smash.

4 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I see why you think Mallo may have been a typo for Mallow, but it wasn't. And Pushmo is Intelligent Systems so there would be no issues adding him if Sakurai wanted to.

I agree that the characters are a waste in Squares hands though. Would be nice to see them even they got the Waluigi treatment of only appearing in party/sports games.

For the record, I'm not claiming that these would be "better" choices, or even my own personal choices (still want Phoenix Wright or Lloyd Irving above all right now), just that they are indeed choices and if they got in Smash there would definitely be a fan or two eager for them along with probably gaining a whole bunch a new fans like Pit or some other relatively unknown characters have gotten after their inclusion in Smash, because just being in Smash is huge popularity boost regardless of who it is.

Also, I didn't exactly see much, if any, demand for Sephiroth as opposed to other Square reps, let alone other games in general, or someone like Min-Min who was pretty much in the same boat, along with the fact she's a second banana in her game (yes a lot speculated and requested her but that was AFTER the the announcement that there would be an ARMS rep, pretty much a non-existent amount before then), but both were pretty well recieved. No reason to assume some of these others unforseen first party characters wouldn't get the same reception. And even if they don't, well, smash fans are always gonna be salty regardless.

The whole assist trophy argument seems equally as faulty as the old "spirits deconfirm fighters" one, only to have Min-Min prove otherwise. Only because there hasn't been a Assist Trophy promoted to fighter in DLC yet doesn't mean it won't happen. I'll believe that when Sakurai explicitly says it or when the DLC is completely finished.

EDIT: With all that said, disappointment is all I feel right now, even after defending first party choices.

Whoopsie! My bad!

I think the reason we didn't see a lot of request for Sephiroth is because A) fans are still focusing on getting heroes of new series in; and B) most fans probably expected that he'd be a boss like Dracula (not like that stopped Bowser or Ganon, of course).

I want so badly for the "ATs deconfirm" argument to be disproven like "Spirits deconfirm" was, but when talking about the idea of including Spring Man in Smash, Sakurai did bring up the fact he's already in as an AT.

Edited by Lord_Brand
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I don't think they're really achieving much having it be Pyrha and Mythra alone over Rex. Rex can do everything they can do after all. And excluding him means no grappling hook. Though I guess their thought process is that they wanted to have the whole Zelda Sheik transformation gimmick and it would visually work better if it's literally Pyra and Mythra transforming rather than Rex just changing the colour of his weapon. Having them hang around in the background might not have worked as well as Pokemon Trainer either as they'd need to be closer to Rex to maintain the idea that they're doing something beyond cheer leading (and obviously having them on the stage like Ice Climbers would be really weird...though not entirely unworkable I guess).

Also Xenoblade Canon is obviously not important to them *cough* *cough* ending *cough* *cough*.

Lastly Mythra in particular looks far less like a prostitute giving her leggings. Though I guess that's been a thing since we first got her Spirit.

Further quick fire speculation

-Rex didn't get in just because Sakurai just wanted to surprise people and rum up this kind of drama.

-Rex didn't get in because they dediced to take a leaf out of the Fire Emblem Heroes guide to success book, namely add cute girls over boys every chance you can get.

-Rex didn't get in because Sakurai enjoys your misery and maintains his youth from the salt of your tears.

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

That's right, Pyra & Mithra are a 2-in-1 DLC! So now X & Zero or the Warriors of Light (a 4-in-1 fighter) are officially possible. Victor and Gloria as the Galarian Pokemon Trainers are also possible, to give SWSH some Smash rep. But, what if Zacian and Zamazenta are the playable Pokemon rather than the starters? I mean, who better to represent Sword & Shield, am I right? Then again, Dynamaxing was a major feature of SWSH, which they'd presumably want to represent in Smash.

Whoopsie! My bad!

I think the reason we didn't see a lot of request for Sephiroth is because A) fans are still focusing on getting heroes of new series in; and B) most fans probably expected that he'd be a boss like Dracula (not like that stopped Bowser or Ganon, of course).

I want so badly for the "ATs deconfirm" argument to be disproven like "Spirits deconfirm" was, but when talking about the idea of including Spring Man in Smash, Sakurai did bring up the fact he's already in as an AT.

There's a very big difference between Spirits and Assist Trphies. Spirits are basically just png files in the game, the existence of a spirit has no actual bearing on how the game is played. They can make cute references with their boosts and event battles, but they aren't actually changing the game in any way. Assist Trophies are on the other hand. They're a factor of the game with a character running around and doing things. And they require a lot more time and effort to make (though obviously way, way less than an actual character). It'd be a bit weird to have a character as both a fighter and an Assist Trophy at the same time, though there's nothing stopping it in a technical sense, but comparing them to Spirits in how they feature in the game is a bit unfounded.

3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Pyra without gaming's worst protagonist is a great add.

You were expecting her to come with TMS's Itsuki?

 

 

Edited by Jotari
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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't think they're really achieving much having it be Pyrha and Mythra alone over Rex. Rex can do everything they can do after all. And excluding him means no grappling hook. Though I guess their thought process is that they wanted to have the whole Zelda Sheik transformation gimmick and it would visually work better if it's literally Pyra and Mythra transforming rather than Rex just changing the colour of his weapon. Having them hang around in the background might not have worked as well as Pokemon Trainer either as they'd need to be closer to Rex to maintain the idea that they're doing something beyond cheer leading (and obviously having them on the stage like Ice Climbers would be really weird...though not entirely unworkable I guess).

Also Xenoblade Canon is obviously not important to them *cough* *cough* ending *cough* *cough*.

Lastly Mythra in particular looks far less like a prostitute giving her leggings. Though I guess that's been a thing since we first got her Spirit.

Further quick fire speculation

-Rex didn't get in just because Sakurai just wanted to surprise people and rum up this kind of drama.

-Rex didn't get in because they dediced to take a leaf out of the Fire Emblem Heroes guide to success book, namely add cute girls over boys every chance you can get.

-Rex didn't get in because Sakurai enjoys your misery and maintains his youth from the salt of your tears.

There's a very big difference between Spirits and Assist Trphies. Spirits are basically just png files in the game, the existence of a spirit has no actual bearing on how the game is played. They can make cute references with their boosts and event battles, but they aren't actually changing the game in any way. Assist Trophies are on the other hand. They're a factor of the game with a character running around and doing things. And they require a lot more time and effort to make (though obviously way, way less than an actual character). It'd be a bit weird to have a character as both a fighter and an Assist Trophy at the same time, though there's nothing stopping it in a technical sense, but comparing them to Spirits in how they feature in the game is a bit unfounded.

You were expecting her to come with TMS's Itsuki?

 

 

Nope. Rex is way worse. Itsuki isn't even the worst character in TMS (hello, Mamori).

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1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Nope. Rex is way worse. Itsuki isn't even the worst character in TMS (hello, Mamori).

I suppose you actually have to have a character to be the worst character, so Itsuki could fail on that metric.

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25 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You were expecting her to come with TMS's Itsuki?

If you wanted a bad low self-esteem main male character, I'd rather pick Emil from Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World. Sorry Emil, maybe you could work in better circumstances, but you & the Ratatosk Mode mood swings, and Richter's seeming love-hate relationship with you, isn't the best made story, with a cringe-at-times script hurting.

Itsuki is just a typical silent SMT-Persona protagonist, they might speak, but their personality is so thin that it doesn't really count. No SMT god-killing edginess true, but thats not typical even of all of SMT's many silent MCs. Of course, the best SMT-Persona protagonist is silent only half the time, his name is Tatsuya Suou.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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35 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

XC2 is the only XC game I haven't played; is Rex really that bad? What exactly is wrong with him?

The virulent complainers say he is a naive, over-energetic, stupidly happy, sensitive and I hope he dies a slow death in a fire crybaby brat.

I care to disagree. Not calling him my favorite Xeno-protagonist, Fei Fong Wong stuck in Square purgatory is the best one, but for me personally, Rex isn't bad. 

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3 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Looks like your wish got granted.

Yep! I'm seriously excited now!

also, what do people mean they count as two different characters? As in, they dont share slots?

Edited by lightcosmo
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44 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Yep! I'm seriously excited now!

also, what do people mean they count as two different characters? As in, they dont share slots?

Pyra and Mythra are counted as Fighter #79 and #80 in the roster. It was mentioned in the official website. It's merely similar to like Zelda / Sheik and Samus / Zero Suit Samus were handled together as transformed fighters and still count as different fighters before they got seperated in For Nintendo 3DS / Wii U along with Squirtle / Ivysaur / Charizard shared in Pokemon Trainer's spot as #51 to #53 for Brawl and Ultimate.

That technically means Challenger Pack 10 and 11 are now Fighter #81 and #82 instead of #80 and #81 due to Mythra is #80 in the roster number.

Edited by King Marth 64
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If they consider them to be different characters to a point where they have separate numbers in the roster, than I'm guessing the movesets are totally different between the two. I can't wait for a Sakurai stream going over the details. I was never a fan of XC2, but the music additions are no doubt going to be a highlight. 

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Glossed over it because I was salty at the moment, but now that I'm more rational, I find it weird that Sakurai seems to want to go back to transformation fighters after making it a point to separate them all in Smash 4.

First, it was Pokemon Trainer, which I figured was an exception because maybe he wanted them to stay true to his original appearance in Brawl (although he the same could be applied to Zelda/Sheik and those didn't go back to original), but now a new transformation fighter is added and it makes me wonder if maybe he regrets the decision to separate them and is trying to bring it back. Wonder if by the next Smash installment Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zero Suit will go back to being one character too.

Don't feel strongly about it either way but just something that stood out to me.

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5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

XC2 is the only XC game I haven't played; is Rex really that bad? What exactly is wrong with him?

Let's see:

 

He has the worst outfit in gaming history. Fucking what is this? A scuba set with cut out legs and booty shorts? How are the cutout legs and booty shorts supposed to help you dive into the cloud sea? All they do is look terrible, and they'd probably fill with water, undermining the entire thing. And I don't know about you, but when I'm fighting, I want clothes that protect everything except for my femoral artery.

Terrible voiceover.

He's a static character whose ideals, methods, flaws, and motivations do not substantially change.

He is consistently carried by Pyra and other, better party members for the full duration of the story, making him essentially feel like a pointless tag-along "for the youth." Basically, he feels like the XC equivalent of FF12's Van. 

 

Spoiler

His recklessness in blindly accepting a job despite his mentor's warnings results in the deaths of himself and his mentor. Don't worry, the consequences immediately go away when he cries about it.

 

His recklessness in knowingly taking on stronger foes causes the death of and almost wastes the sacrifice of a party member. He never has to deal with the consequences of his shortcomings, as Mythra gets him out of this situation.

 

Every moment of weakness is overcome either by crying about it until it is immediately resolved or being carried by Pyra/Mythra, the actual protagonists. The one time the party suffers an actual crushing defeat and Pyra/Mythra are overcome, Rex decides to give up and leave the party. Great protagonist material there.

 

I'm not calling XC2 bad. It gets good.... after like 10+ hours. But it gets good entirely in spite of Rex. He's consistently the least likeable party member (not counting certain rare blades like Dahlia). 

Edited by Fabulously Olivier
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