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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: Behold the true power of the Aegis! (Pyra/Mythra out now!)

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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Yuri Lowell, please! That would complete the roster for me personally! And I got my last wish, so here's hoping for two in a row! Xd

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5 hours ago, Jingilator said:

https://www.polygon.com/22369630/e3-2021-date-announced-nintendo-xbox-capcom-ubisoft

E3's confirmed to be a digital event this year, and Nintendo's among the participants.

Which tells me we'll most likely see the next Fighter there. Who're you hoping for? I'm placing my bets on Cash Banooca.

Ah, a fellow follower of the Caddy-Laddy, I see. Cyoar!

Yeah, I'm hoping for Crash too. What would be hilarious is if, in his reveal trailer, he and a bunch of other fighters all do the Crash dance. Though, considering what a smash hit Crash would be, and looking at how Byleth left a lot of people feeling "meh" at the end of FP1, it's possible they're saving Crash for the very last pack of the pass.

I'd love if Shantae was announced at E3, as then she could be added on or close to the day her series debuted, on June 2. Crash then could be added sometime around fall, like say on September 9th, the day his series debuted. It's almost too perfect.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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The Crash reveal trailer should be live action. It's a staple of his marketing material in the 90s and they even brought back the concept for Crash 4's promotional material going back to Summer Games fest. And remember Smash 64's live action commercial. A recreation of that with a fifth man in a crash suit would be ideal.

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On 4/6/2021 at 6:45 AM, Jingilator said:

https://www.polygon.com/22369630/e3-2021-date-announced-nintendo-xbox-capcom-ubisoft

E3's confirmed to be a digital event this year, and Nintendo's among the participants.

Which tells me we'll most likely see the next Fighter there. Who're you hoping for? I'm placing my bets on Cash Banooca.

I'm hoping for either another 1st Party Nintendo character, 2nd Bandai Namco Franchise Character (either Lloyd Irving or another one from Bandai Namco), Shantae, 2nd SNK Franchise Character, or one of my other requested characters that I voted from the Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot back at 2015 will might show up at E3 2021 as Challenger Pack 10.

17 hours ago, Jingilator said:

Bowser’s Fury Spirit Event (ABOUT DAMN TIME).

That was kinda unexpected that we got an another Spirit Event coming soon already.

Edited by King Marth 64

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12 hours ago, Jingilator said:

I'm placing my bets on Cash Banooca.

I understood that reference. One of my favorite people to watch on YouTube.

Oh, also, I agree, I'm hoping for and predicting Crash.

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8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

The Crash reveal trailer should be live action. It's a staple of his marketing material in the 90s and they even brought back the concept for Crash 4's promotional material going back to Summer Games fest. And remember Smash 64's live action commercial. A recreation of that with a fifth man in a crash suit would be ideal.

I think the bulk of the trailer should be CGI and gameplay, but yes, a live action skit featuring actors in suits with the Crash guy included would be hilarious. They could also adapt the Crash suit to a Mii Brawler costume, complete with hole in the teeth for the Mii's face.

They gotta bring in Sonic to recreate that 90s console rivalry. Maybe Cloud, Sephiroth, and Snake as well?

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Here's an interesting tidbit:

"Sora" (sky) Limited, so I guess that means "the sky's the limit" according to Sakurai. I dunno if that was intentional, but that's still kinda cool.

But whatever the case, think he'd be over the moon if he was told Sora was A-OK for Smash?

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I managed to get up to Classic Mode by setting up start with 5.0 Difficulty so that I can get to 9.9. When I tried out completing to reach to 9.9 with Terry, Hero, and Richter, I managed to reach up to 9.8 that I was so close to beating towards 9.9 (I was off by 0.1). Does anyone know how to exactly reach 9.9 from starting off with 5.0? I wanted to try to unlock the Challenge that requires beating in 9.9 in Classic Mode.

Edited by King Marth 64

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19 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I managed to get up to Classic Mode by setting up start with 5.0 Difficulty so that I can get to 9.9. When I tried out completing to reach to 9.9 with Terry, Hero, and Richter, I managed to reach up to 9.8 that I was so close to beating towards 9.9 (I was off by 0.1). Does anyone know how to exactly reach 9.9 from starting off with 5.0? I wanted to try to unlock the Challenge that requires beating in 9.9 in Classic Mode.

You get an extra bonus for getting a perfect clear of a stage (that is to say killing the enemies without taking any damage). I'm also pretty sure the faster you clear it the higher your increase is. So really there's not much I can say beyond play really well. My highest scorers on Classic are Ganondorf and Ridley, who are also my Mains, but you might find yourself having more success with powerful foes who can take out the enemies quickly and without taking any damage on the lower difficulties to get good initial boosts. But then you'll have to be good enough with those same characters to survive with them on the higher difficulty level late stages.

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I co-op Classic with my bro, and we've managed some impressive runs with the following teams, including a couple 9.9 results:

  • Chrom + Donkey Kong
  • Sephiroth + Donkey Kong
  • Sonic + Min Min

But yeah, scoring perfects helps immensely. My brother and I once managed to gain +1.1 off a single fight by scoring a double perfect.

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I do co-op Classic Mode too, but with myself.

The way I do this is by selecting a character for P2 and then do P1's route as P2. Examples:

  • Luigi + Lucas (so Lucas can fight Dracula)
  • R.O.B. + Sheik (so Sheik can fight Galleom)
  • Link + Palutena (so Palutena can fight Ganon)

Starting to notice something here?

 

I made a thing for FF content I would've loved to at least see in the base game

 

Man, just imagine the KH remixes if Sora ever got in Smash. I’d love to see how Yoko Shimomura handles a remix of Dearly Beloved that’s specific to Smash but keeps that signature charm of hers.

 

MODEDIT: yo you hadn't tripleposted cause some dude did a dumb post between them but in the future edit instead of posting again yea?

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7 hours ago, Jingilator said:

Daily reminder that Sora's moveset alone can work without Disney characters.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2E4rs0t4XMtIi0MNma_SxJHy2xIRav7eYLd1mg8GeE/edit?usp=drivesdk
I made sure that every single attack in this moveset was something he did in the games.

The issue isn't Sora's moveset, it's the fact he and his series are closely tied to characters who can't appear in Smash due to them originating outside video games like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy. Yeah, you could edit Sora's appearance to omit all Disney references and keep the Spirits, background characters, etc. limited to those who originate from KH proper like Riku and Kairi, but why would Disney agree to that when it means they get the short end of the stick? Not to mention the Disney half of the equation is a big part of KH's appeal in the first place; it'd be like adding Ruby Heart from Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and not including any Marvel content.

There is a case to be made for the KH-specific versions of Mickey, Donald, and Goofy, who possess characteristics unique to their portrayal in this series like Mickey's Keyblade and Donald's magic, but unlike, say, the Castlevania version of Dracula, who is a public domain character, Disney's characters most certainly are not public domain, and if Nintendo were to allow the KH-specific versions of Mickey and co. into Smash, that would weaken their defense against characters like Goku or Marvel superheroes who also have video game-specific portrayals. It'd just be safer and easier for Nintendo to say "No" outright.

Something else they could do is introduce a new character who is basically Sora but for Super Smash Bros. rather than Kingdom Hearts. A Keybearer who travels various Nintendo worlds rather than various Disney worlds. Or, if Disney's willing to allow it, they can retool Sora for his appearance in SSB specifically by making this an alternate version of him who befriended the likes of Mario and Link rather than Mickey Mouse and Hercules. Instead of a Mickey Mouse keychain, Sora would have a Super Mushroom or a Smash symbol. His trailer could allude to his Disney friends in a vague manner while Riku and Kairi join him as part of his Final Smash and possibly as playable characters in their own right.

But you know, the idea of third parties contributing Smash-original characters intrigues me. Like, what would a character created by Capcom for Smash be like? Could we see a new Reploid-type character who looks like they came right out of Mega Man X? A new Street Fighter-type character? Could SEGA introduce a new Sonic-style character in Smash? Could Square Enix give us Smash-unique Light Warriors?

Let's consider that characters have been created for other crossover games, like Rowan and Lianna for Fire Emblem Warriors, Alfonse and Sharena for Fire Emblem Heroes, or Lana, Cia, and Linkle for Hyrule Warriors. My custom fighter creator idea would allow players to create brand-new fighters using existing characters as a base, like plumbers with a design different from Mario and Luigi, or vulpine starship pilots distinct from Fox and Krystal. Maybe if SSB6 were to implement such a CFC, they could include a line of Original Generation fighters created by various contributors as an example of what's possible with the CFC?

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8 hours ago, Jingilator said:

Daily reminder that Sora's moveset alone can work without Disney characters.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2E4rs0t4XMtIi0MNma_SxJHy2xIRav7eYLd1mg8GeE/edit?usp=drivesdk
I made sure that every single attack in this moveset was something he did in the games.

I would not prefer to see his moveset ported to Smash. The thought of having to deal with moves like Flash Step, Magnet Burst, Aerial Dive and such is a scary thought.

Take some creative liberties! 

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Honestly I don't think dealing with Disney is really the massive hurdle for Sora that people perceive it as. Yes, Disney has been notoriously protective with their IPs, but they have still licensed them out. Licensed Disney games exist, like a tonne of them. And Kingdom Hearts itself is more than enough of an example of Disney willing to use their properties in Japanese developed Video Games. And by this point Smash has already displayed numerous times they are capable and powerful enough to liaison with other companies for the use of their characters, up to and including the company that actually makes Kingdom Hearts. Having Sora in Smash would basically be free money for Disney, the only question really is whether Disney's greed for profit would lead to them demanding a higher price for Sora than Nintendo is willing to pay for his inclusion. But I think if Nintendo want's Sora, they can negotiate, as they have the higher hand to play. As they don't need necessarily need Sora, there's plenty of other characters in various series they could use (*cough* *cough* Travis Touchdown *cough* *cough*), while Disney has a vested interest in the low risk high reward of implementing Sora in Smash.

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Money's not an issue, either; were it not for the sticky fact about the actual Disney characters, no doubt Nintendo and Disney would be happy to include Sora. But the close ties to Disney characters is an issue due to the fact Nintendo themselves have stated that they don't want non-video game characters in Smash. And while there are workarounds, would those workarounds actually satisfy anyone? Do we want to see Sora in Smash without Disney characters? If so, why? What do we actually like about Sora himself that makes us want to play him in Smash?

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15 hours ago, Jingilator said:

Daily reminder that Sora's moveset alone can work without Disney characters.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2E4rs0t4XMtIi0MNma_SxJHy2xIRav7eYLd1mg8GeE/edit?usp=drivesdk
I made sure that every single attack in this moveset was something he did in the games.

If you add Sora without Disney, you're not really adding Sora.

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5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Money's not an issue, either; were it not for the sticky fact about the actual Disney characters, no doubt Nintendo and Disney would be happy to include Sora. But the close ties to Disney characters is an issue due to the fact Nintendo themselves have stated that they don't want non-video game characters in Smash. And while there are workarounds, would those workarounds actually satisfy anyone? Do we want to see Sora in Smash without Disney characters? If so, why? What do we actually like about Sora himself that makes us want to play him in Smash?

Sora is a video game character though.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Sora is a video game character though.

Did I say otherwise? It's not Sora that's the problem here, it's the non-video game characters he's closely associated with that makes including him such a sticky issue. You can include Sora without any explicit Disney references, replacing Donald and Goofy with Kairi and Riku, changing his keychain from a Mickey Mouse head to a crown or a heart, etc., but will that feel satisfactory? Admittedly, it would for me, but the various Disney worlds and characters are a big part of KH's intrinsic appeal. Leaving that out feels like missing the point.

On the other hand, they could get really meta by pulling an AU with Nintendo worlds rather than Disney worlds, and present the Sora in SSBU as a counterpart of sorts to the one from the KH mainline series. Or just allude to him being the same Sora but only make vague allusions to the Disney characters. I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to tie that in to the KH series proper, maybe even release a Switch-exclusive gaiden game where Sora and co. visit Nintendo worlds like the Mushroom Kingdom and Hyrule, and Sora outright recognizes a lot of the Nintendo heroes and villains from his time spent helping them fight Galeem and Darkhon in SSBU. I can picture Sora greeting Mario and Luigi with a cheesy Italian accent, like "Hey, Mario, Luigi! It's-a-me, Sora!", making him and his plumber pals laugh at his terrible impersonation. Not gonna lie, I would so totally check that out.

If Sora does get in, his trailer needs to have him interact with Cloud and Sephiroth in some way. Maybe he jumps in where Sephiroth's trailer ends to help Cloud fight him? I could see a funny exchange happening where Sora recognizes Cloud, and Cloud's all "I'm sorry, have we met?" and Sora thinks his memories have been messed with, not realizing that the Cloud he's talking to isn't the same Cloud he knows from his own series. Then Palutena appears and explains to Sora what's going on, welcomes him to Super Smash Bros., and offers him her guidance since his usual mentor can't appear for reasons she's not allowed to explain.

Yes, that means Sora would get his own set of Palutena's Guidances in Smash. The Guidances make tongue-in-cheek references to the fact Disney's characters aren't from video games and thus can't be included or even mentioned by name; for example, during their conversation about Ganondorf, Sora says "He might be even more powerful than Xehanort or M-" and Palutena cuts him off with "Shhhh! Remember, you can't say her name!" Though sometimes Sora could cheat, like by mentioning his "goofy friend" when commenting about Link's use of a shield.

I'm thinking his stage could be Radiant Garden, though a tour stage that travels between Traverse Town, Radiant Garden, and Twilight Town could be fun too. Characters like Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, Cid, Tifa, Seifer, Fujin, Raijin, Vivi, Setzer, Hayner, Pence, and Olette could appear as background NPCs. Naturally, Sora's Classic Mode would include references to the Heartless and Organization XIII. The first match could be against a team of Mr. Game & Watch to reference Shadows, and one of the last battles could be against Ganondorf to represent Xehanort. Cloud and Sephiroth could be among his opponents too, as they appeared as bosses in multiple KH games.

So, yeah, I'm all for Sora getting into Smash, I just acknowledge there need to be some workarounds. But hey, at least they can use those workarounds as a basis for some meta humor.

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50 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Did I say otherwise? It's not Sora that's the problem here, it's the non-video game characters he's closely associated with that makes including him such a sticky issue. You can include Sora without any explicit Disney references, replacing Donald and Goofy with Kairi and Riku, changing his keychain from a Mickey Mouse head to a crown or a heart, etc., but will that feel satisfactory? Admittedly, it would for me, but the various Disney worlds and characters are a big part of KH's intrinsic appeal. Leaving that out feels like missing the point.

On the other hand, they could get really meta by pulling an AU with Nintendo worlds rather than Disney worlds, and present the Sora in SSBU as a counterpart of sorts to the one from the KH mainline series. Or just allude to him being the same Sora but only make vague allusions to the Disney characters. I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to tie that in to the KH series proper, maybe even release a Switch-exclusive gaiden game where Sora and co. visit Nintendo worlds like the Mushroom Kingdom and Hyrule, and Sora outright recognizes a lot of the Nintendo heroes and villains from his time spent helping them fight Galeem and Darkhon in SSBU. I can picture Sora greeting Mario and Luigi with a cheesy Italian accent, like "Hey, Mario, Luigi! It's-a-me, Sora!", making him and his plumber pals laugh at his terrible impersonation. Not gonna lie, I would so totally check that out.

If Sora does get in, his trailer needs to have him interact with Cloud and Sephiroth in some way. Maybe he jumps in where Sephiroth's trailer ends to help Cloud fight him? I could see a funny exchange happening where Sora recognizes Cloud, and Cloud's all "I'm sorry, have we met?" and Sora thinks his memories have been messed with, not realizing that the Cloud he's talking to isn't the same Cloud he knows from his own series. Then Palutena appears and explains to Sora what's going on, welcomes him to Super Smash Bros., and offers him her guidance since his usual mentor can't appear for reasons she's not allowed to explain.

Yes, that means Sora would get his own set of Palutena's Guidances in Smash. The Guidances make tongue-in-cheek references to the fact Disney's characters aren't from video games and thus can't be included or even mentioned by name; for example, during their conversation about Ganondorf, Sora says "He might be even more powerful than Xehanort or M-" and Palutena cuts him off with "Shhhh! Remember, you can't say her name!" Though sometimes Sora could cheat, like by mentioning his "goofy friend" when commenting about Link's use of a shield.

I'm thinking his stage could be Radiant Garden, though a tour stage that travels between Traverse Town, Radiant Garden, and Twilight Town could be fun too. Characters like Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, Cid, Tifa, Seifer, Fujin, Raijin, Vivi, Setzer, Hayner, Pence, and Olette could appear as background NPCs. Naturally, Sora's Classic Mode would include references to the Heartless and Organization XIII. The first match could be against a team of Mr. Game & Watch to reference Shadows, and one of the last battles could be against Ganondorf to represent Xehanort. Cloud and Sephiroth could be among his opponents too, as they appeared as bosses in multiple KH games.

So, yeah, I'm all for Sora getting into Smash, I just acknowledge there need to be some workarounds. But hey, at least they can use those workarounds as a basis for some meta humor.

There's absolutely no need to change his key chains or remove any traces of Donald and Goofy. It's not like there's some immutable law saying they can't have characters originating in video games in Smash Bros. If Nintendo gets the rights to Sora they will get the rights to all that stuff as well and they will not half ass the character just to keep consistent with some non existent ruling. Time and time again it's been proven that there is no rules when it comes to selecting characters for Smash Bros. Pople used to think it was only Nintendo characters, then we got Snake. People used to think it was only characters who have combat experience in their own games, and then we got Villager and WiiFit Trainer. Now Nintendo says they don't really want to use characters from outside of Video Games, that's pretty understandable, but it doesn't mean if something presents itself they will ignore it to be consistent with that a rule. It's not a rule, it's a policy. The only rule for Smash Bros. is for the character to be good. Donald, Goofy, Mickey, Yen Sid and all the other characters originating from Disney are absolutely possible to put into Smash Bros. They're no less Video Game characters than Castlevannia's Dracula or Kid Icarus's Hades is.

That being said I expect his stage would be Hollow Bastian, or some other significant area like the Keyblade Graveyard, and if Mickey and co weren't spirits it wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the world, Kingdom Hearts has a massive cast so there's plenty of important characters that would work as spirits. I just don't think Nintendo would have any express reason to intentionally avoid anything once they have the property.

Edited by Jotari

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17 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Do we want to see Sora in Smash without Disney characters? If so, why? What do we actually like about Sora himself that makes us want to play him in Smash?

yes i do.
because Sora's the one i want to see in Smash, not anyone else from KH.
his flashy and potentially unconventional moveset

16 hours ago, Florete said:

If you add Sora without Disney, you're not really adding Sora.

while Sora is undoubtedly Disney's property, nothing in this world says that adding Sora's character to a crossover game without Disney elements equals to not really adding Sora's character.
World of Final Fantasy features Sora as a DLC summon IIRC (might be wrong, but the point is that Sora appears in WoFF), but since there's no other Disney content in that game, then Sora isn't really in WoFF? is Sora the new Schrödinger's cat?

this said, IMO the main reason why Sora isn't gonna be in SSB Ultimate is money: i fear Disney would demand absurdly high prices to let Nintendo touch Sora's copyright

Edited by Yexin

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8 minutes ago, Yexin said:

yes i do.
because Sora's the one i want to see in Smash, not anyone else from KH.
his flashy and potentially unconventional moveset

while Sora is undoubtedly Disney's property, nothing in this world says that adding Sora's character to a crossover game without Disney elements equals to not really adding Sora's character.
World of Final Fantasy features Sora as a DLC summon IIRC (might be wrong, but the point is that Sora appears in WoFF), but since there's no other Disney content in that game, then Sora isn't really in WoFF? is Sora the new Schrödinger's cat?

Mickey symbol is on his Key Chain if you want to class that as a Disney Element.

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43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There's absolutely no need to change his key chains or remove any traces of Donald and Goofy. It's not like there's some immutable law saying they can't have characters originating in video games in Smash Bros. If Nintendo gets the rights to Sora they will get the rights to all that stuff as well and they will not half ass the character just to keep consistent with some non existent ruling. Time and time again it's been proven that there is no rules when it comes to selecting characters for Smash Bros. Pople used to think it was only Nintendo characters, then we got Snake. People used to think it was only characters who have combat experience in their own games, and then we got Villager and WiiFit Trainer. Now Nintendo says they don't really want to use characters from outside of Video Games, that's pretty understandable, but it doesn't mean if something presents itself they will ignore it to be consistent with that a rule. It's not a rule, it's a policy. The only rule for Smash Bros. is for the character to be good. Donald, Goofy, Mickey, Yen Sid and all the other characters originating from Disney are absolutely possible to put into Smash Bros. They're no less Video Game characters than Castlevannia's Dracula or Kid Icarus's Hades is.

That being said I expect his stage would be Hollow Bastian, or some other significant area like the Keyblade Graveyard, and if Mickey and co weren't spirits it wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the world, Kingdom Hearts has a massive cast so there's plenty of important characters that would work as spirits. I just don't think Nintendo would have any express reason to intentionally avoid anything once they have the property.

Sakurai said only video game-originated characters will be in Smash. Thus no Goku, no Iron Man, no Sailor Moon, etc. Dracula and Hades are both public domain characters, and Castlavenia's Dracula and Kid Icarus' Hades are video game-originated characters based on the originals. The Dracula and Hades in question have characteristics unique to their video game portrayals. KI's Hades isn't literally the Hades of Greek Mythology, any more than the tome Excalibur in Fire Emblem is the Sword of Arthurian legend somehow transformed into a book (though I do wonder why FE's developers decided Excalibur should be a magic book rather than a sword). Castlevania's Dracula isn't literally the Dracula of Bram Stoker's novel, nor the historic Romanian noble on whom that character was based. Castlevania's Dracula is more akin to D&D's Count Strahd von Zarovich or MtG's Edgar Markov.

Disney's characters are not public domain, and while you could argue Kingdom Hearts' versions of Donald, Goofy, etc. are unique characters inspired by the originals, I think we all know that argument is basically BS as Disney's characters exist in a sort of nebulous meta-continuity where they can appear in a wide variety of times and places, yet are still considered the same characters essentially. And even if they do create a loophole for KH's Disney characters, that's just going to put them on a slippery slope where they find excuses to include other non-video game characters in Smash - before you know it, we're going to be fighting Goku, Shrek, Minions, and freaking Spongebob Squarepants. At that point, Smash will have lost its identity and become a cheap crossover slum house willing to rent a room out to anyone with money. Smash will no longer be a respectable crossover fighter that celebrates video games, it will be just another advertisement venue for the biggest money-grubbing megacorps in the world.

Sora is the absolute farthest Nintendo should be willing to stretch its boundaries since he at least is a video-game originated character, one Disney happens to co-own with Square. But if Sora gets into Smash, Nintendo would be wise to limit what gets in with him.

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