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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: Behold the true power of the Aegis!

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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14 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Okay, before calling me "dumb" maybe you should think about it.

Most the cast goes to down throw to up air or bair, to me this is boring. It's not fun to watch or use. Why not create different conversions? And dont tell me it's impossible, please. Maybe your just comfortable with the game taking little skill to play, i dont know.

those conversions are forced or fake. However you want to say it, it doesnt matter.

I just want to see something fresh, is all. And it's far from impossible to accomplish. See Marth/Roy in melee. Or Fox/Falco.

What is this "most" of the cast? Not many characters actually have a reliable down throw -> air attack in Ultimate.

You're just upset because 70+ characters weren't all made to your exact specifications.

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Down/Up throw > u-air was pretty dominant in Smash 4. At least for its mid-high tiers, obviously the toppest of tiers (Cloud and Bayo) didn't have anything off a grab. But half of the throw combos have been patched significantly in ultimate. Sometimes as far as it not being a combo anymore, but usually just enough that you don't get kill confirms off something as simple as a grab. Grabs themselves are also way laggier than last game. Watch actual ultimate matches and you won't find the same grab fishing you did three years ago. 

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5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Agree that he has more than swords. The problem is that everything he has, has been done, as you kindly already showed with Divine Pulse. Byleth would make the most sense acting in the background like Pokémon Trainer for Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude.

Bows have been done, magic's been done. Hell, counters have been done nearly a dozen times between FE, Pokemon, Bayonetta, and Little Mac. And you just pointed out that Pokemon Trainer already did the "team commander" thing. If you restrict characters to only what hasn't been done, you're going to have a very small, unsatisfying pool. Divine Pulse is one of TH's signature mechanics, thus I'd suggest using it for Byleth. It's okay for moves and movesets to be similar when it makes sense, otherwise we'd only have one fighter allowed to punch and kick, and only one allowed to use a sword.

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2 hours ago, Florete said:

What is this "most" of the cast? Not many characters actually have a reliable down throw -> air attack in Ultimate.

You're just upset because 70+ characters weren't all made to your exact specifications.

I was actually giving an alternative solution to clones, which would work, I think. This way, it would also take little time/effort to change, that way it's not cutting into new characters movesets.

I mean, cmon it should be fun to create new combos, not just always create u air juggles, they have endless possibilities, and I personally think they restrict themselves. Just to me, the combo game is lacking. I think it should "flow", for example, ZSS is a perfect example of a character who flows in this game. They should go out of the box like that for others and they would have something great. They did such an amazing job of creating a fun and well flowing moveset for her, she is easily one of the most fun to use characters. 

Another example of a poorly done character is Ike. Watching a character use nothing but Nair as that is his whole game, is a little boring. I'm surprised others dont think that. Now compare Ike to ZSS, he is really bland, and clunky.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's Ikes whole game, yes?

They have characters done right, as I pointed out. They just need to tweek quite a few of them, is all. And besides Ike, I think the sword characters are on the "fun" side.

Edited by lightcosmo

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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

Bows have been done, magic's been done. Hell, counters have been done nearly a dozen times between FE, Pokemon, Bayonetta, and Little Mac. And you just pointed out that Pokemon Trainer already did the "team commander" thing. If you restrict characters to only what hasn't been done, you're going to have a very small, unsatisfying pool. Divine Pulse is one of TH's signature mechanics, thus I'd suggest using it for Byleth. It's okay for moves and movesets to be similar when it makes sense, otherwise we'd only have one fighter allowed to punch and kick, and only one allowed to use a sword.

Thanks for overgeneralizing what I said and fighting a strawman (sarcasm). 

1. I have been trying to be a lot more specific than "bows", "magic", "swords" every single time I have brought up my point, and people still keep overgeneralizing. What am I doing wrong in my communication?! Someone tell me; please! This is driving me crazy. 

I would never say something like, "bows have been done" or "magic has been done" because that's way too general; Zelda and Robin both use magic, but I think everyone would agree that they're very different fighters. 

When I say that what Byleth has to offer has been done before, I get specific, as I already did earlier in this thread. But I'll say it again. Let's break down what Byleth has to offer:

  • The Sword of the Creator: what sets it apart is its added function as a whip-sword (and its sword-beam, but they didn't give Ike one so they aren't going to give Byleth one). What would a whip-sword potentially entail? Greater reach, for greater starting lag and possibly a tip effect. This is the same, functionally, as the Morningstar Whip used by the Belmonts. 
  • Fist Combat: gauntlets would just be a matter of aesthetics, so let's say fists. He would probably still have his sword held in one arm, as he has nowhere to put it, and it offers less reach and damage in exchange for quick attacks. So, this would probably be a standard attack. Ike is already a swordsman with a fast fist attack as his standard attack. 
  • White Magic: Byleth learns four spells: heal (not allowed), Nosferatu (Robin already has Nosferatu), Recover (not allowed), and Aura (based on its animation, it would be a Blue version of Robin's Thoron). 
  • Battalions: This is the one area that would not be a retread. But, by its very nature, it would almost certainly be limited to a Final Smash. I'm not going to count Final Smash for what I hope are fairly obvious reasons. 
  • Divine Pulse: It would almost certainly be a copy of either Shulk's Vision or Bayonetta's Witch Time. 

See what I mean; the problem exists in the specifics. Without generalizing to just saying "bows" or "magic" or "swords", I was able to point out the specific ways in which each and every one of Byleth's gimmicks would functionally be a rehash of something seen in Smash Bros. Can you say the same thing about, for example, all four of the DLC Fighters?

By contrast, Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude all open up more opportunities to stand out than Byleth does thanks to their particular gimmicks. 

 

2. I never said that one non-unique move suddenly means a fighter shouldn't be in Smash. Shulk has a counter as a down special, and I still consider him unique because he has plenty of things that stand out: most notably back slash and the Monado Arts. Luigi is a semi-clone of Mario, but there's still a fair bit that he brings to the table that isn't done by other characters. Full clones are made simply because it takes a loss less time and effort, so they never actually "steal" a fighter slot. I'm just saying that, as far as representing Three Houses in Smash goes, Byleth, on their own, is a poor choice, as there isn't much that they bring to the table when there are options that bring a lot more to the table. 

3. Yes; Pokémon Trainer does the "team command" thing, but when the team being commanded is very different, I would consider that to be different. Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude would have almost nothing in common with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, so I would consider that to be very different. 

Plus, if Divine Pulse is really that necessary, one can still have Divine Pulse and have Byleth hang back; as he's still there, it would still make sense. 

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11 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Thanks for overgeneralizing what I said and fighting a strawman (sarcasm). 

1. I have been trying to be a lot more specific than "bows", "magic", "swords" every single time I have brought up my point, and people still keep overgeneralizing. What am I doing wrong in my communication?! Someone tell me; please! This is driving me crazy. 

I wouldnt say your doing anything wrong, people just dont like being wrong, is all. 

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Based on how the previous three fighter presentations went, it's worth mentioning ahead of time that the next character will probably be releasing tomorrow. Stay vigilant, and hopefully it won't take too long for the patch to download.

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12 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I wouldnt say your doing anything wrong, people just dont like being wrong, is all. 

Pretty funny coming from you.

 

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1 hour ago, Integrity said:

cosmo, roland, step off. not issuing warnings for now but you're toeing the line.

it's always a little fun, but mostly just disappointing, to act on a threat

 

behave, the rest of you.

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16 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I wouldnt say your doing anything wrong, people just dont like being wrong, is all. 

Thanks. I'm glad you didn't overgeneralize; you mistook which of your statements I was replying to earlier, but I'm guessing that that was a simple honest accident. 

 

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

I mean, cmon it should be fun to create new combos, not just always create u air juggles, they have endless possibilities, and I personally think they restrict themselves. Just to me, the combo game is lacking. I think it should "flow", for example, ZSS is a perfect example of a character who flows in this game. They should go out of the box like that for others and they would have something great. They did such an amazing job of creating a fun and well flowing moveset for her, she is easily one of the most fun to use characters. 

Another example of a poorly done character is Ike. Watching a character use nothing but Nair as that is his whole game, is a little boring. I'm surprised others dont think that. Now compare Ike to ZSS, he is really bland, and clunky.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's Ikes whole game, yes?

They have characters done right, as I pointed out. They just need to tweek quite a few of them, is all. And besides Ike, I think the sword characters are on the "fun" side.

I like Ike quite a bit; in fact, he's my main. He doesn't really need combos; he's more of a "one good blow is all you need" kind of character. I can't even recall the last time I had Ike use normal air except maybe when fighting bosses. But I don't play competitively (though I do play locally with friends and relatives), so I'm probably not the best person to judge Ike competitively.

I don't think Ike really needs too many combos though; he's not a "this move leads into the next" fighter, but more of a, "this move ends the fight" fighter. And I think that's part of what makes him fun to play (for me at least). 

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4 hours ago, Etheus said:

There are some characters that do need new movesets come Smash 6 (if they aren't removed in a reboot), but most are damn good.

 

Ganondorf - complete redo. He is not living up to any of his massive potential whatsoever.

Ike - give him the damn shockwave. Though honestly, I'd consolidate all FE swordsmen into the Marth moveset and replace Dolphin Slash with Aether and Shield Breaker with Shockwave.

Samus - consistently one of the weakest characters across all games. Recombine with ZSS and tone up the power of her hits so that regular Samus can be a designated finisher after ZSS damages the foe. 

Ganondorf's moveset is fun as all hell in Smash. The only thing he needs to live up to his potential is Palutena style alternative special moves.

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I'm calling an in depth reveal of Phoenix Wright. 

 

An then a teaser trailer for Dante, the first fighter of Pass 2. My full predictions for Pass 2 are Dante, Crash Bandicoot, 2B, Doom Slayer (who will be added just because he's talked about so much now), and Lloyd Irving.

Edited by Etheus

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The madman actually did it.

I'll give him that one, I'm probably the only person who liked byleth.

Edited by thecrimsonflash

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The trailer was pretty cool. They even got some use out of Solon. 

But ugh....did they really have to do Byleth? Really him? Any other Three Houses choice would have been more interesting. I get it, the chain whip sword makes it easy to craft a moveset for him but as a character Byleth just isn't up to snuff. Edelgard, claude and Dimitri or even Sothis would all have been more interesting choices. Even among his fellow avatars Byleth stands out as being particularly dull. 

I expect a lot of drama about this. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I won't boycott yet by a hair because they are not solely a sword user  but i am extremely dissapointed and won't buy another Smash game untill the fire emblem roster receive a big overhaul.

Edited by Flere210

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I don't really play Smash as much as I used to, but replaying 3H right now leaves a strong impression of Byleth being one of the worst aspects of that game. At least the complaints about him just being a sword user are invalid.

Could've really just been one of the three lords. Much cooler if in their post timeskip forms. Byleth feels like such a normie pick tho smh

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I wish Byleth had been like Pokémon Trainer, with Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude as the actual fighters. This is saddening, to be honest. 

They even teased it by having Byleth summon something red, blue and yellow, but then it just turned out to be their Hero's Relics! Byleth can't even use those weapons without turning into a monster as he has the wrong Crest for them!

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9 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

The madman actually did it.

I'll give him that one, I'm probably the only person who liked byleth.

Byleth is the best lord in the series and I'll fight any cunt who says otherwise.

The salt here will be kept to a minimum or there will be warns thrown out like Salt Bae presenting a gold-leaf steak.

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I mean, I get the "another Fire Emblem character" hate, but at the same time, Three Houses is its biggest and best entry with by far the most cultural impact. It deserves something.

 

For the next Smash, Fire Emblem's roster should be trimmed down (but Byleth or another 3H rep absolutely needs to stay), but roster bloat is a reality of Smash Ultimate as is (and not just for Fire Emblem).

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20 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

The madman actually did it.

I'll give him that one, I'm probably the only person who liked byleth.

I like Byleth a lot. Visually, he/she is a very cool avatar. They convey a lot of personality through facial expressions if you're paying attention. And the sheer versality of Three Houses' class system (despite its glaring omissions) makes them the most fun avatar to use by far.

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