Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[NSSKG151]

I was wondering when people were going to start 'leaking' stuff for Smash Switch. Ice Climbers returning feels like a pretty safe prediction. I'm not sure how I feel about heavy 3rd party representation though. I'm worried that means we won't see that many newcomers from Nintendo's own franchises.

[Jedi]

4 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

I was wondering when people were going to start 'leaking' stuff for Smash Switch. Ice Climbers returning feels like a pretty safe prediction. I'm not sure how I feel about heavy 3rd party representation though. I'm worried that means we won't see that many newcomers from Nintendo's own franchises.

To be fair, most of Nintendo's biggest names are in smash and have been, I don't think a little more 3rd party involvement would be a bad thing.

[NSSKG151]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:03 AM, Jedi said:

To be fair, most of Nintendo's biggest names are in smash and have been, I don't think a little more 3rd party involvement would be a bad thing.

True, besides a second Xenoblade rep, a Pokémon from the latest generation another character from the retro age and maybe another FE character plus an ARMS character I can't really think of any other big name Nintendo character at the top of my head without it going into wtf territory.

It's going to be a long twelve weeks until we see smash at e3 unless Nintendo talks about it during April or May.

Edited April 6, 2018 by NSSKG151
removed words

[Zapp Branniglenn]

8 hours ago, Jave said:

I'm personally ready for Rayman and Crash Bandicoot

Sony's Mario Killer deserves to be in a game where he can fulfill that destiny. This is my greatest hope when it comes to third party reps.

[Lightchao42]

Sakurai can't add third party characters just by waving a magic wand, so I don't expect too many new ones. But either way it doesn't really matter because the "insider" admitted that the leak was fake.

[Armagon]

35 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

 But either way it doesn't really matter because the "insider" admitted that the leak was fake.

Honestly not surprised. 

[LucarioGamer812]

So saw this on twitter today.

I will say as much as I like some trophies (mostly Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade) I will say this is most probably fake.

[Armagon]

21 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

So saw this on twitter today.

I will say as much as I like some trophies (mostly Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade) I will say this is most probably fake.

This isn't even a leak, it's fanart.

[Florete]

Some of those actually look pretty good, wish I could see a higher resolution version of it.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Florete

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Florete said:

Some of those actually look pretty good, wish I could see a higher resolution version of it.

Going through his Twitter, these are the ones i found (putting it in a spoiler tag so it doesn't take up a lot of space)

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jotari]

I do hope they give us Tuexedo Bowser as an alt.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Nomura be praised, can somebody please articulate for me the rampant assumption Cloud isn't coming back? I get it, third party, potential for rights issues, yada yada, we all know where we were when we learned Snake isn't coming back.

But still, Cloud not returning sounds like an extremely bold bet to me at this stage. He was revealed for Smash mere months after the FF7 remake was announced. He's a promotional tool. And three years later he can still be that promotional tool. I know people are losing faith in this remake (that's what...stage 3 out of 5 of the Square Enix game announcement-to-launch cycle?), but I think the odds of seeing more of that game at this year's E3 are considerable. Snake was also a promotional tool in Brawl. You know, the geckos occasionally appearing in place of Metal Gear Rex and Ray on Shadow Moses? Snake's primary theme being a battle rendition of MGS4's Love Theme? Not every guest character is here to promote a Nintendo game.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Nomura be praised, can somebody please articulate for me the rampant assumption Cloud isn't coming back? I get it, third party, potential for rights issues, yada yada, we all know where we were when we learned Snake isn't coming back.

But still, Cloud not returning sounds like an extremely bold bet to me at this stage. He was revealed for Smash mere months after the FF7 remake was announced. He's a promotional tool. And three years later he can still be that promotional tool. I know people are losing faith in this remake (that's what...stage 3 out of 5 of the Square Enix game announcement-to-launch cycle?), but I think the odds of seeing more of that game at this year's E3 are considerable. Snake was also a promotional tool in Brawl. You know, the geckos occasionally appearing in place of Metal Gear Rex and Ray on Shadow Moses? Snake's primary theme being a battle rendition of MGS4's Love Theme? Not every guest character is here to promote a Nintendo game.

The thing with Cloud is that, you can tell Square Enix was pretty stubborn about him. Every 3rd Party character in Smash 4 represents their franchise nicely but Cloud literally came with just a stage, two songs in both versions of Smash 4 and three (two in Sm4sh 3DS) trophies of himself. He wasn't representing the Final Fantasy series, but rather, just Final Fantasy 7. Doesn't help that they somehow couldn't get Cloud's English VA.

Yeah, Ryu didn't come with much either but he still came with more songs (even if said songs were just remixes of the same song) and a trophy that wasn't himself and he still represented Street Fighter much better than Cloud did with Final Fantasy.

[Jotari]

If Cloud's DLC made a lot of money, then he'll come back (probably as DLC again). Square Enix might have some questionable business practises, but I'm sure they don't dislike the idea of free money.

[Florete]

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

The thing with Cloud is that, you can tell Square Enix was pretty stubborn about him. Every 3rd Party character in Smash 4 represents their franchise nicely but Cloud literally came with just a stage, two songs in both versions of Smash 4 and three (two in Sm4sh 3DS) trophies of himself. He wasn't representing the Final Fantasy series, but rather, just Final Fantasy 7. Doesn't help that they somehow couldn't get Cloud's English VA.

All this, and his color palettes. The differences are slight.

And it wasn't that they couldn't get his English VA. Said VA stated on Twitter that he would be fully willing to voice Cloud in Smash, so the reason was something else. Probably, again, related to rights issues.

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Nomura be praised, can somebody please articulate for me the rampant assumption Cloud isn't coming back? I get it, third party, potential for rights issues, yada yada, we all know where we were when we learned Snake isn't coming back.

But still, Cloud not returning sounds like an extremely bold bet to me at this stage. He was revealed for Smash mere months after the FF7 remake was announced. He's a promotional tool. And three years later he can still be that promotional tool. I know people are losing faith in this remake (that's what...stage 3 out of 5 of the Square Enix game announcement-to-launch cycle?), but I think the odds of seeing more of that game at this year's E3 are considerable. Snake was also a promotional tool in Brawl. You know, the geckos occasionally appearing in place of Metal Gear Rex and Ray on Shadow Moses? Snake's primary theme being a battle rendition of MGS4's Love Theme? Not every guest character is here to promote a Nintendo game.

Snake was also a direct request from his creator to Sakurai, who are good friends. And Snake didn't return in the next game.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

The thing with Cloud is that, you can tell Square Enix was pretty stubborn about him. Every 3rd Party character in Smash 4 represents their franchise nicely but Cloud literally came with just a stage, two songs in both versions of Smash 4 and three (two in Sm4sh 3DS) trophies of himself. He wasn't representing the Final Fantasy series, but rather, just Final Fantasy 7.

Yup, that supports my position that he's a promotional tool. They did put other Square Enix stuff in, like the Chocobo and Geno costumes. The latter certainly being Sakurai's request. I can just imagine the intermediaries saying "Geno...who? Uh, sure, I'll ask...okay I asked and they were expecting you to bring that up. They say it's okay."

I don't think anybody involved in Smash wants to take on the monumental task of representing all of Final Fantasy with one character inclusion and stage. Tekken didn't want to attempt it either with Noctis. Final Fantasy vs Smash Bros. is large enough of an idea that it warrants either it's own game or no attempt at all. That's why my Square Enix rep of choice will always be Frog from Crono Trigger. One game, one set of lore and characters, one soundtrack of music

[Armagon]

42 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I don't think anybody involved in Smash wants to take on the monumental task of representing all of Final Fantasy with one character inclusion and stage. Tekken didn't want to attempt it either with Noctis. Final Fantasy vs Smash Bros. is large enough of an idea that it warrants either it's own game or no attempt at all.

I 100% disagree because Mega Man has one stage and one character and despite that, most of the Mega Man series is represented and Mega Man's been around for as long as Final Fantasy has. It's not as monumental as you think. All they had to do for Final Fantasy was just add a few trophies and songs from across the series and boom, you're done.  Instead, Final Fantasy 7 is literally the only FF game represented.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

42 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I 100% disagree because Mega Man has one stage and one character and despite that, most of the Mega Man series is represented and Mega Man's been around for as long as Final Fantasy has. It's not as monumental as you think. All they had to do for Final Fantasy was just add a few trophies and songs from across the series and boom, you're done.  Instead, Final Fantasy 7 is literally the only FF game represented.

The important distinction here is that Smash 4 was built from the ground up with Mega Man present and considered. Cloud is a post development consideration with not a lot of time to hash things out. Working out weird deals and rights issues concerning 10-30 year old games for just trophies and music feels like a waste of time and resources. Saying that they've represented the whole Mega Man series is also a bit disingenuous. You've got trophies of the other Mega Men from his Final Smash, and Zero. But the rest of the content including the music only references the Classic series. The Final Smash and Zero trophy are the only things separating Mega Man and Final Fantasy content.

I support the decision to represent just the one game given the circumstances. And I can't imagine Square Enix wanting a big blowout celebration of Final Fantasy in Smash because they already have their crossover fighting series. The latest entry of which just released this year.

[Armagon]

27 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

The important distinction here is that Smash 4 was built from the ground up with Mega Man present and considered. Cloud is a post development consideration with not a lot of time to hash things out. Working out weird deals and rights issues concerning 10-30 year old games for just trophies and music feels like a waste of time and resources. Saying that they've represented the whole Mega Man series is also a bit disingenuous. You've got trophies of the other Mega Men from his Final Smash, and Zero. But the rest of the content including the music only references the Classic series. The Final Smash and Zero trophy are the only things separating Mega Man and Final Fantasy content.

And that's the thing, at the end of the day, there's just so much stacked against Cloud coming back. When Bayonetta, a character who came after, represents her series 10000% better than Cloud did, it's just proof of all the rights issues going on that make Cloud's future in Smash bleak. If Square Enix wasn't super stubborn, we probably would've gotten more Final Fantasy content in Smash. It's why out of all the 3rd Party and DLC characters, Cloud's the only one that has a low chance of coming back.

Also, regarding Mega Man, as i said before, most of his series (not all) was represented in Smash. Most of it is the Classic series, yes, but you'll find X, Zero, and Star Force stuff there as well.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And that's the thing, at the end of the day, there's just so much stacked against Cloud coming back. When Bayonetta, a character who came after, represents her series 10000% better than Cloud did, it's just proof of all the rights issues going on that make Cloud's future in Smash bleak. If Square Enix wasn't super stubborn, we probably would've gotten more Final Fantasy content in Smash. It's why out of all the 3rd Party and DLC characters, Cloud's the only one that has a low chance of coming back.

Huh, so you did notice my initial question...

Well anyway, Square's stubborness is still a rather large assumption. I'd theorize it's Cloud's status as a post-development DLC addition that left them with little time and resources to go beyond him, his stage, the cool summons (consider that the equivalent to Mega Man's final Smash since these guys show up in almost every game. I just wish they had trophies since they look so cool.), and the battle music. They also probably didn't want to charge an outrageous DLC price to cover the cost in having more Final Fantasy content that comes with Cloud. He's already the most expensive character. And if Square really is stubborn in only wanting FF7 content, that doesn't answer why said content is one of the most likely cuts from the next game - it only supports the reverse. Yes I know you specified guest characters, but I wasn't addressing my question at you specifically. Cloud is still representative of a game Square wants to promote just as he was in 2015.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Comet]

cloud's a fan favorite though. everybody gushes over him. i was voted out of a casual tournament since i tied with a cloud player, and i was playing pink captain falcon.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

And that's the thing, at the end of the day, there's just so much stacked against Cloud coming back. When Bayonetta, a character who came after, represents her series 10000% better than Cloud did, it's just proof of all the rights issues going on that make Cloud's future in Smash bleak. If Square Enix wasn't super stubborn, we probably would've gotten more Final Fantasy content in Smash. It's why out of all the 3rd Party and DLC characters, Cloud's the only one that has a low chance of coming back.

Also, regarding Mega Man, as i said before, most of his series (not all) was represented in Smash. Most of it is the Classic series, yes, but you'll find X, Zero, and Star Force stuff there as well.

Where is the corrolation between representation and chances of coming back? Fire Emblem didn't even get a stage or a non Marth/Roy trophy in Melee, yet it came back in full force in Brawl and is one of the biggest franchises in the series. If Square wants Cloud back, they'll lease the rights out again, if they don't, then they won't.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Comet said:

and i was playing pink captain falcon.

You mean the white and pink one? That was actually my favorite recolor in Melee, and I still like it a lot.

Actually, this gives me a random topic idea!

[Lightchao42]

If we're taking about Cloud's chances of coming back then I feel that I should link to the article of Sakurai and Nomura discussing how Cloud made it in to begin with.

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Where is the corrolation between representation and chances of coming back? Fire Emblem didn't even get a stage or a non Marth/Roy trophy in Melee, yet it came back in full force in Brawl and is one of the biggest franchises in the series. If Square wants Cloud back, they'll lease the rights out again, if they don't, then they won't.

The difference between Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy is that Fire Emblem isn't 3rd Party, so they are able to get away with it.

 

3 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

If we're taking about Cloud's chances of coming back then I feel that I should link to the article of Sakurai and Nomura discussing how Cloud made it in to begin with.

Ok, so it seems Square Enix wasn't as stubborn as i thought. They allowed a lot of creative freedom when developing Cloud so that's good at least. Though stuff like the music and Cloud not having an English VA might still have to do with rights issues.