Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Armagon]

The Vs Steven remix sounds exactly how i expected it to tbh. It's good but nothing to write home about.

 

On the subject of Pokemon music, CAN WE PLEASE HAVE MUSIC FROM THE SPIN-OFFS?! In fact, there is zero Pokemon Spin-off representation in Smash. At least put in Dialga's Fight to the Finish from Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky.

 

Edit: @Interdimensional Observer i guess they could scale Medusa down and make her an Echo but i think Viridi makes more sense for that. Then again, if they go with the heroes vs villains theme, Medusa would work.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Armagon

[ZeManaphy]

4 hours ago, Randoman said:

So 3 days ago, there were some more leaked details from LaPailleDor, the same guy who correctly guessed Chrom, King K. Rool, Richter, and Simon as playable characters, as well as Dracula as a boss and Stage Morph being a new addition.

The new update from him is as follows:

What do you guys think?

Mostly everything from his Sept. 22 post, as well as the unconfirmed elements from his July 12 post seem to check out. The only glaring exception to that is Reimu being playable.

As for the ability to change the design of Battlefield, Big Battlefield, and Final Destination, I'll admit, that does seem kind of out of left field. But at the same time, that's something I can easily imagine Sakurai doing, since he really tries hard to implement tributes to past games and such.

My question will be if Kyurem is a boss, will it appear as Black and White Kyurem? I was bummed in Wii U when they didn’t appear.  

I’m not sold on Medusa. She’s not as demanded as Ridley to the point they’d put her in for fans. I much think they put Phosphora since you actually fight her and she waifu material. 

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Can you really call it a trend if X/Y had no third version (this Zygarde obviously had to be the third, but it never got its day- right? I stopped playing after B/W), and there only being Ultra Sun and Moon since? Unless Zygarde even without a dedicated game counts and you consider him and Necrozma both bad. I think three is needed for a trend, two doesn't cut it for me.

 

I'd consider Suicune to be a pretty poor third box legendary. It isn't an equal, nor a master to the other duo, rather it's only a servant to one of the other box legendaries. And while Suicune is officially Water type, its Ice affinity from the north wind/aurora makes it coincidentally like Kyurem whom you consider lame. I like Suicune and it and Crystal version being what they are, but its lack of lore strength isn't good for the box legendary image.

Although to be fair, did Game Freak think it through when making Gold and Silver of having a Crystal? Clearly with subsequent generations, you can see them laying the groundwork for a third version, like Rayquaza wasn't so strong-looking with an anti-Groudon/Kyogre ability to not be an indicator? I'm not sure this was the case with Gen 2 though, there is only Ho-Oh, Lugia, the beast trio, and Celebi. They should've used Celebi as the box legendary, but for some reason, cute mascot Pokes don't count I guess. What'd they call it? I don't know. Pokemon Peridot? 

I forgive Suicune’s case, since Gen 2 was the first time they put legendaries as mascots. Although Gold and Silver were the first to feature Legendary Pokémon, Crystal was the first to have the Pokémon involved in the plot.

 

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

The new remix is of Steven's Champion theme 

 

Like it better than the ORAS version, less than RSE version. Isn’t this also Wallace’s theme?

[Armagon]

https://gonintendo.com/stories/319133-sakurai-says-smash-bros-ultimate-character-reveals-will-be-slowi

This is to be expected, we probably won't get any reveals in October and November will be the last batch of reveals before the game releases.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Armagon

[Lightchao42]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/319133-sakurai-says-smash-bros-ultimate-character-reveals-will-be-slowi

This is to be expected, we probably won't get any reveals in October and November will be the last batch of reveals before the game releases.

I don't think "trigger happy" is the phrase I would use to describe Ultimate's news cycle, nor do I think that reveals came at a fast pace to begin with, but this is just about what I expected. I expect another infodump Direct in November/December and that's it.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Lightchao42

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Konami striking while the iron is hot with that (Now Real!) Castlevania collection. Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Call it the Richter n' Alucard Starter Pack. Perfect for the Nintendo...PS4...

Welp, hope that goes multiplatform I guess. Rondo of Blood's commercial availability ended last year (yes I know the Wii Shop Channel is still technically up but who wasn't smart enough to decide what's worth their points last year?). I appreciate their decision to release before Halloween - probably explains them stopping at just two games. But these particular two games make sense together both because of their story connections and their representation in Smash so PS4 exclusivity is a head scratcher. And I was hoping for something more complete from a series collection. Maybe a split between Classic arcade action Castlevanias that I want to play and that other kind.

3 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

I don't think "trigger happy" is the phrase I would use to describe Ultimate's news cycle, nor do I think that reveals came at a fast pace to begin with, but this is just about what I expected. I expect another infodump Direct in November/December and that's it.

Well people have been making comparative charts. That one in particular counts Echo Fighters but not returning Veterans which are the bulk of Ultimate's "Newcomers". And even then it doesn't seem at all slower than the previous game. The most glaring difference is we didn't have a lull of silence at the start of the hype cycle for character reveals like Smash 4's six month waiting period or Brawl's one whole year. The decision to announce and release a Smash Bros. game within a single year definitely warrants an expediting of announcements.

As for the scheduling of reveals, I sort of agree with some of the more recent speculation. Sakurai clearly cares about getting major info out before it's leaked. And the only "development" the game must be going through right now are balance changes, QA, probably some last minute license agreements to make sure pieces of music or trophies can be in the finished product. I've been anticipating one final Smash focused Direct within two weeks of the game's launch, but I sort of acknowledge now it could happen at any point leading up to Dec 7th. Especially if they're planning to get out a global Test Smash demo which I still find to be a slam dunk prediction despite the silence on the subject.

[Armagon]

So Sakurai's Famitsu Column came out and Source Gaming translated it and in it, Sakurai explains why Isabelle isn't an Echo Fighter. Said reason is pretty dumb actually.

Aren't Villager and Isabelle like, the same size? And personality is a factor in seperating unique fighters from Echoes? Then why are Dark Pit, Dark Samus, Richter and Daisy Echo Fighter? I haven't touched a single Castelvania game but i hear that Richter is basically the Joseph Joestar of the Belmonts (which is why i'm maining him or at least having him as a secondary). Dark Pit is just edgy Pit and Daisy is a tomboy compared to Peach. So shouldn't they be unique fighters out of sheer fact that they have different personalities than the character they are based off? Don't know anything about Dark Samus though. 

This just goes to show that Sakurai says a lot of things and you shouldn't take every thing he says about the series as definitive fact.

[Johann]

11 hours ago, Armagon said:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/319133-sakurai-says-smash-bros-ultimate-character-reveals-will-be-slowi

This is to be expected, we probably won't get any reveals in October and November will be the last batch of reveals before the game releases.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion they're going to save it all for one long final direct or whatever

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Konami striking while the iron is hot with that (Now Real!) Castlevania collection. Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Call it the Richter n' Alucard Starter Pack. Perfect for the Nintendo...PS4...

Welp, hope that goes multiplatform I guess. Rondo of Blood's commercial availability ended last year (yes I know the Wii Shop Channel is still technically up but who wasn't smart enough to decide what's worth their points last year?). I appreciate their decision to release before Halloween - probably explains them stopping at just two games. But these particular two games make sense together both because of their story connections and their representation in Smash so PS4 exclusivity is a head scratcher. And I was hoping for something more complete from a series collection. Maybe a split between Classic arcade action Castlevanias that I want to play and that other kind.

I read that Sony had a hand in getting it put together, but yeah I reeeeaaaallly hope this comes to Switch eventually. I'd be pretty surprised if it never did, though.

I'm not even sure where my SotN disc and PS2 are, and I only have my old Wii for Rondo, so I gotta make that jump sometime.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Aren't Villager and Isabelle like, the same size? And personality is a factor in seperating unique fighters from Echoes? Then why are Dark Pit, Dark Samus, Richter and Daisy Echo Fighter? I haven't touched a single Castelvania game but i hear that Richter is basically the Joseph Joestar of the Belmonts (which is why i'm maining him or at least having him as a secondary). Dark Pit is just edgy Pit and Daisy is a tomboy compared to Peach. So shouldn't they be unique fighters out of sheer fact that they have different personalities than the character they are based off? Don't know anything about Dark Samus though.

• Dark Pit is literally an evil clone of Pit, but since Pit is so freakin' pure, his evil clone comes out as a edgy jerk at his worst. Everyone who meets Dark Pit playfully mock him, and and he ends up as having more of a twin brother dynamic with Pit. Anytime you play as Dark Pit, they're the exact same, the only difference being whatever weapons they're using, which is why their differences in Smash are entirely based on the weapons they use and no difference in weight, etc.
• Dark Samus is the titular Metroid Prime, which is basically a Metroid mutated heavily with a evil magic space goo called Phazon. After Samus beats the original Metroid Prime game (of which it, as said creature, is the final boss), it absorbs a part of Samus' suit, and in the post credits scene it takes form as Dark Samus. There's no woman in there or anything, it's just a powerful alien creature taking the form of Samus' suit. Anyway, the floating and stuff relates to her source of power, the Phazon, which is also why her attacks have that consistent black/dark blue color scheme. It's been a while, but I recall that her attacks in the game tended to focus more on tackling attacks rather than shooting beams like Samus does, so perhaps her ranged attacks will be weaker and close range attacks stronger. Her dash attack appears to be a more practical move (in terms of knockback) than what Samus has.
• Richter is Simon's descendant (about 100 years apart), and characterization-wise there's almost certainly not as much compared to a full-blown anime character (I don't know my animes, so I can't verify what you've heard). He's sort of a hotheaded but genuinely sincere dude. While Simon has always had the classic Castlevania slow 'n' steady playstyle, Richter came with a backflip, and in his second appearance (Symphony of the Night) they gave him all these cool martial arts moves (the uppercut, sliding kick, the dash attack) performed with Street Fighter style command inputs. SotN also gave him the ability to straight-up full speed run, which is something they don't really give you in any Castlevania game barring the rare special power-ups (his playable mode in Portrait of Ruin also lets him run, unlike anyone else). This gave him a completely dynamic playstyle, making it easy to maneuver in and out when fighting bosses, or brazenly rush through a corridor of bad guys. It is kind of surprising that they'd make him identical to Simon in Smash, but if they were to distinguish them, Richter would probably have properties more like Captain Falcon, while Simon would be comparatively more like Ganondorf, trading speed for bulk.

[King Marth 64]

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

So Sakurai's Famitsu Column came out and Source Gaming translated it and in it, Sakurai explains why Isabelle isn't an Echo Fighter. Said reason is pretty dumb actually.

Aren't Villager and Isabelle like, the same size? And personality is a factor in seperating unique fighters from Echoes? Then why are Dark Pit, Dark Samus, Richter and Daisy Echo Fighter? I haven't touched a single Castelvania game but i hear that Richter is basically the Joseph Joestar of the Belmonts (which is why i'm maining him or at least having him as a secondary). Dark Pit is just edgy Pit and Daisy is a tomboy compared to Peach. So shouldn't they be unique fighters out of sheer fact that they have different personalities than the character they are based off? Don't know anything about Dark Samus though. 

This just goes to show that Sakurai says a lot of things and you shouldn't take every thing he says about the series as definitive fact.

I think Isabelle is like slightly little bit shorter than Villager which the Villager in Super Smash Bros. is based off from City Folk than using the New Leaf attire.

Edit: Actually, I made a mistake about saying Isabelle is little bit taller than the Villager.

Edited September 27, 2018 by King Marth 64

[Armagon]

26 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

I think Isabelle is like slightly little bit shorter than Villager which the Villager in Super Smash Bros. is based off from City Folk than using the New Leaf attire.

Edit: Actually, I made a mistake about saying Isabelle is little bit taller than the Villager.

Even then, the sizes aren't that different. Isn't Daisy like, a bit taller than Peach?

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Even then, the sizes aren't that different. Isn't Daisy like, a bit taller than Peach?

Hell female Robin is a bit shorter than Male Robin and they're the same character!

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Dai]

Death the Reaphog, our newest and edgiest OC. Do not steal™

I also just realized that Castlevania has an item, but not Final Fantasy.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Dai

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 hours ago, Dai said:

I also just realized that Castlevania has an item, but not Final Fantasy.

Well the Midgar stage has it's exclusive Pokeball-like item in the Materia.

Not sure what would be a good item from FF to include, particularly since they've restricted things to VII. Never mind how stingy SE is being.

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the Midgar stage has it's exclusive Pokeball-like item in the Materia.

Not sure what would be a good item from FF to include, particularly since they've restricted things to VII. Never mind how stingy SE is being.

Black Materia. Works like the Special Flag only instead of restoring a stock, it summons a giant meteor that deals heavy damage across almost the entire stage. It's probably take a lot of animation work, but Cloud's bike could be another one. Let any character act like Wario (just like the Parasol let's any character cosplay as Peach). Would be simultaneously cool and hilarious (motorcycle Ridley!).

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Anomalocaris]

Castlevania's got the distinction of being the only third-party franchise (excluding the Boss Galaga and Special Flag items) with a regular item.

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the Midgar stage has it's exclusive Pokeball-like item in the Materia.

Not sure what would be a good item from FF to include, particularly since they've restricted things to VII. Never mind how stingy SE is being.

I'd say Green Materia, which would randomly be either Fire, Lightning, or Ice, and it uses the higher tier versions for tilt and smash attacks. For other FFs, I dunno, the most iconic items are either healing stuff or powerful crystals for summoning or job changing and I'm not sure they'd fit.

[Lord_Brand]

How about Gysahl Greens? Grab one and you summon a Chocobo that you can ride on for a while.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Castlevania's got the distinction of being the only third-party franchise (excluding the Boss Galaga and Special Flag items) with a regular item.

Melee also had the Proximity Mine and Cloaking Device from Rare shooters that were published on Nintendo consoles, but still completely third party. So Castelvania is the only third party franchise to have an item excluding all the other ones that do already...

Edited September 28, 2018 by Jotari

[Lightchao42]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Melee also had the Proximity Mine and Cloaking Device from Rare shooters that were published on Nintendo consoles, but still completely third party. So Castelvania is the only third party franchise to have an item excluding all the other ones that do already...

In that case Castlevania is the only third party series with playable characters to have an item, which is odd since it's only been in one Smash Bros. while Sonic has been in three.

Anyway I decided to take a preliminary look at how many characters each series has. Counting Echo Fighters...

• Nine: Pokémon (seven if you count Pokémon Trainer as one character)
• Eight: Mario
• Seven: Fire Emblem
• Six: Zelda
• Four: Metroid
• Three: Donkey Kong, Kirby, Star Fox, Kid Icarus
• Two: EarthBound, Animal Crossing, Castlevania
• One: Yoshi, F-Zero, Ice Climber, Game & Watch, WarioWare, Metal Gear, Sonic, Pikmin, R.O.B., Mega Man, Wii Fit, Punch-Out!!, Pac-Man, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Splatoon

If you ignore Echo Fighters, Mario has seven, Metroid has three, Fire Emblem has five, Kid Icarus has two, and Castlevania has one.

Fun fact: Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing, and Castlevania are the only universes introduced after the first game to have more than one character. How should series representation change in the future?

[Johann]

@Jedi A bit out of the blue, but I was playing the Wii U Smash today and was reminded that King Dedede still shows up in the background of the N64 Kirby stage, but doesn't if he's in the fight. So uh, I guess that clears Tails and other characters who appear on the stages. Of course, you probably had already remembered that stuff.

[Randoman]

I'm hoping one of you will be able to answer this: On the Smash Wiki, it says that Daisy is able to pull out turnips faster than Peach. However, there's been very little footage of playable Daisy in action, and I can't even recall seeing any footage of Daisy pulling out turnips. Is there some sort of Smash footage that I've been missing out on or something?

[Jedi]

16 hours ago, Johann said:

@Jedi A bit out of the blue, but I was playing the Wii U Smash today and was reminded that King Dedede still shows up in the background of the N64 Kirby stage, but doesn't if he's in the fight. So uh, I guess that clears Tails and other characters who appear on the stages. Of course, you probably had already remembered that stuff.

I hadn't even considered that. Oops

1 hour ago, Randoman said:

I'm hoping one of you will be able to answer this: On the Smash Wiki, it says that Daisy is able to pull out turnips faster than Peach. However, there's been very little footage of playable Daisy in action, and I can't even recall seeing any footage of Daisy pulling out turnips. Is there some sort of Smash footage that I've been missing out on or something?

I don't think so, sounds like someone just editing a wiki.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

4 hours ago, Randoman said:

I'm hoping one of you will be able to answer this: On the Smash Wiki, it says that Daisy is able to pull out turnips faster than Peach. However, there's been very little footage of playable Daisy in action, and I can't even recall seeing any footage of Daisy pulling out turnips. Is there some sort of Smash footage that I've been missing out on or something?

There is no footage of Daisy using that move. As somebody who does confirm differences I can tell you the Smash wiki has consistently proven un-moderated with obviously wrong facts or things nobody could possibly know.

[Jedi]

I wonder if this month we'll get some more info again.

[Silverly]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

I wonder if this month we'll get some more info again.

Sakurai did say in an interview that news would be slowing down significantly, so it’s quite possible we might not.

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Sakurai did say in an interview that news would be slowing down significantly, so it’s quite possible we might not.

Yeah fully expecting that as possible.