Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Lau]

13 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

 

  Hide contents

can some confirm the change to Castle Seige 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/49999-smash-ultimate-roster-leaks-black-knight 

 

If that's about that General sitting on the throne, then as far as I can see, it was never the Black Knight. It was just a generic General design. Yes, it had the black armour, but it had gold trimmings, which the Black Knight doesn't. The General was changed to a more reddish colour, so maybe the Black Knight could be a Boss, and the General was changed so the resemblance didn't confuse people?

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

"Last time she was even mentioned" didn't sound like mainline DK games only, and is wrong either way, since she makes non-playable appearances in mainline games.

I'm not here to argue whether she deserved to get in before K. Rool, just making sure it's known that she's had appearances, playable and not, throughout the years.

If you go back, I've been strictly sticking with mainline releases. I referenced K. Rool's last appearance as DK64, even though he's been in side games much more recently than that. I could have just said Sluggers, which was the last time Dixie AND K. Rool showed up prior to Tropical Freeze where Dixie was playable again, but I didn't, because it's one of the Mario crossover games.

The one main game between 64 and Tropical Freeze was DKCR, and I don't recall her appearing at all in that game. If she was, my bad, but she was replaced by Tiny in 64, which is the last time I recall her being mentioned in the main games.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Slumber

[Anomalocaris]

I should note that King K. Rool has been consistently more requested than Dixie. In fact, he was, like, the #1 most requested character in Japan for a long time, with a disproportionately-large fanbase compared to his appearances and relevance. He's basically Japan's Ridley.

Dixie is a popular request and she'd definitely be the fourth DK rep if it gets one in DLC or Smash 6, but even she's lightyears behind King K. Rool.

[Jave]

Both Dixie and K. Rool were playable in King of Swing and Barrel Blast, and Dixie in Diddy Kong Racing DS. If you're going to argue relevancy, it's not like either character was ever "dead".

[King Marth 64]

23 hours ago, Slumber said:

Hey. 

 

  Hide contents

We don't know what Mach Rider looks like under the helmet. They could be a girl.

And Kazooie is a girl.

 

Spoilers

Spoiler

Mach Rider was a woman like Samus. They did revealed Mach Rider as a woman in The VS Mach Rider Arcade.

I got a few things to say about the leak:

Spoiler

I'm going with Team Fake.

The final newcomer roster from the leak is too small. If that leak was real, I don't think that was for the Final Ingame Roster. It would most likely belong for the November Direct as an updated to the roster artwork instead of the December Direct since it would most likely be revealing more than 7 newcomers.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by King Marth 64

[Anomalocaris]

56 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

I got a few things to say about the leak:

  Hide contents

I'm going with Team Fake.

The final newcomer roster from the leak is too small. If that leak was real, I don't think that was for the Final Ingame Roster. It would most likely belong for the November Direct as an updated to the roster artwork instead of the December Direct since it would most likely be revealing more than 7 newcomers.

 

Truly? I think it's fake for the opposite reason.

Spoiler

I think there's only 2 or 3 more newcomers left, enough for one last November Direct before launch, and that's it. 7 is already way too optimistic for a game that Sakurai said would not have as many newcomers as usual, let alone more than 7.

 

[Florete]

1 hour ago, King Marth 64 said:

Spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Mach Rider was a woman like Samus. They did revealed Mach Rider as a woman in The VS Mach Rider Arcade.

I got a few things to say about the leak:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm going with Team Fake.

The final newcomer roster from the leak is too small. If that leak was real, I don't think that was for the Final Ingame Roster. It would most likely belong for the November Direct as an updated to the roster artwork instead of the December Direct since it would most likely be revealing more than 7 newcomers.

 

You think it's fake because there's too few characters? Are you joking?

We had a Smash direct in August that revealed 5 characters, 2 unique, and you think 7 characters, 5 unique, isn't enough to be believable?

[Lau]

Spoiler

 

Anyone notice how GameXplain has been acting in regards to this?

They put out a three minute video dismissing the leak on the basis of it being blurry, when it's by far the most credible leak we've had for Ultimate, not including the Ken leak, yet put out a thirty minute video based on the Box Theory(or was it the Blog Theory?), which was based mostly on guess work.

I dunno, these guys are always quick to report on this kind of stuff, but when you consider how they're partnered with Nintendo...I'm probably reading too much into this, but I've been following GameXplain for years now, and this is very out of character for them.

Also, a potential bit of evidence, this leaker's new company hasn't come forward yet, unlike Marina, so it's possible that they're under an NDA. This could mean that it's real, but at the same time, they might just be thinking, "hey, we're not involved, we don't have to do squat".

 

 

[Anacybele]

9 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Man, if that leak is accurate, then I'll have only gotten one (Daisy) of my top 5 most-wanted newcomers (others are Crash Bandicoot, Lyn, Ephraim, a Zelda character [Kass would be awesome and no I'm not kidding, but Impa or Skull Kid would be cool too]). These are the same characters (sans Kass) I've been wanting for years and multiple Smash games...can my wish EVER be granted? :( Hopefully DLC can bring in at least Lyn...

You and me both man. My top 5 is mostly different (Daisy, Dixie Kong, Vaati, Ephraim, Black Knight), but yeah. I admit they mostly didn't have high chances though. Also, don't get your hopes up for Lyn since she's still an assist trophy. I've taken Ghirahim off my list of wanted playables for the same reason. He's still regulated to assist trophy, I believe.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Anacybele

[Fabulously Olivier]

My top 10 are:

1. Isaac/Felix (Golden Sun)

2. Any/all of the Fire Emblem: 3 Houses lords.

3. Azura, Hector, or Ephraim

4. Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell (Tales)

5. XC2 rep (any of the main playable cast or TTGC cast would work)

6. Banjo & Kazooie

7. Crash

8. Spyro

9. Decidueye

10. Alucard (the REAL Castlevania protagonist, unfortunately deconfirmed)

 

So, this leak is pretty great from where I'm standing, with two desirable reps.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Etheus

[Jotari]

14 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Make the "dead" villain who hasn't appeared in his own series in years have more priority than a consistently playable character who is also highly requested and still continues to appear in her series. Right. Makes a LOT of sense. I'm not arguing against K. Rool's inclusion, I'm just confused at why he would be in and Dixie still wouldn't be.

Sakurai deeply confuses me here.

K Rool's more interesting movesetwise imo. Even if Dixie can be completely unique to Diddy Kong, the game needs more heavy weights than it currently does light weights,

[Anacybele]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

K Rool's more interesting movesetwise imo. Even if Dixie can be completely unique to Diddy Kong, the game needs more heavy weights than it currently does light weights,

I never said K Rool shouldn't be in. I'm saying Dixie should be there with him, and yet she's not for some reason. Makes no sense to me.

[Fabulously Olivier]

10 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I never said K Rool shouldn't be in. I'm saying Dixie should be there with him, and yet she's not for some reason. Makes no sense to me.

You have, however, stated that she should be a higher priority than him. Which is laughable, given that his polling priority and importance are both higher than hers. The most iconic DK villain vs. the fourth most iconic Kong (behind Donkey, Diddy, and Cranky).

Should she be here? Probably. Yeah. Is she essentially? Probably not. Is her apparent/possible exclusion inexcusable or even a big deal? Not really.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

You have, however, stated that she should be a higher priority than him. Which is laughable, given that his polling priority and importance are both higher than hers. The most iconic DK villain vs. the fourth most iconic Kong (behind Donkey, Diddy, and Cranky).

Should she be here? Probably. Yeah. Is she essentially? Probably not. Is her apparent/possible exclusion inexcusable or even a big deal? Not really.

It's rude to laugh at other people's opinions. Cranky is more iconic? How so? I often forget he even exists. Dixie was also playable in a DK game long before he ever was, I believe.

Second, it is a big deal imo.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Anacybele

[Fabulously Olivier]

23 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

It's rude to laugh at other people's opinions.

Second, it is a big deal imo.

Just because it's laughable doesn't mean that I'm actually going to laugh. Simply because I reserve that for the opinions of people who have earned that (and it takes a lot to earn that).

Also, I mean that it isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of the general audience. It could be a big deal to someone that there isn't a skinship mode, but I doubt most would share that opinion.

Edit: 

Also, as for iconic status, this is determined by the perception of the outside audience. A non-fan. King K. Rool has managed to be a fixture of pop culture through previous famous incarnations (DK64 and the cartoon series). He's a meme that extends into the outside world. To a lesser extent, so is Cranky (especially if we count the fact that he is literally THE character that started the franchise alongside Jumpman Mario). Dixie doesn't have that. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Etheus

[Lau]

My top five are:

1) Bandana Dee

2) Isaac

3) Sora

4) Skull Kid

5) King Boo

Ghirahim would be where Skull Kid is, but he's an Assist Trophy. Other runners up would be Decidueye(or Golisopod with Guzma in the background), Tiki and Lana from Hyrule Warriors.

As for Echoes...there's only one that I want: Zack Fair as a Cloud Echo.

[Florete]

29 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Also, as for iconic status, this is determined by the perception of the outside audience. A non-fan. King K. Rool has managed to be a fixture of pop culture through previous famous incarnations (DK64 and the cartoon series). He's a meme that extends into the outside world. To a lesser extent, so is Cranky (especially if we count the fact that he is literally THE character that started the franchise alongside Jumpman Mario). Dixie doesn't have that. 

Dixie is easily more iconic than any character called "Cranky Kong." Yes, this means I don't count his appearance as Donkey Kong in the arcade game, since that is still known as "Donkey Kong."

Dixie is a female character who starred in her own game in the 90s, a time when such a thing was actually a pretty big deal. She's also been a playable female character who was never sexualized in her games and was never in need of rescue. She's way ahead of Cranky Kong.

The only reason I would consider K. Rool to arguably (but not definitely) be above her is because he's the villain of the original DKC, the most well-known of the trilogy where she wasn't present. I don't know what you're talking about with this "meme that extends into the outside world" stuff, the only times I've heard of him outside the context of his own games is in Smash fandom.

[Fabulously Olivier]

15 minutes ago, Florete said:

Dixie is easily more iconic than any character called "Cranky Kong." Yes, this means I don't count his appearance as Donkey Kong in the arcade game, since that is still known as "Donkey Kong."

Dixie is a female character who starred in her own game in the 90s, a time when such a thing was actually a pretty big deal. She's also been a playable female character who was never sexualized in her games and was never in need of rescue. She's way ahead of Cranky Kong.

The only reason I would consider K. Rool to arguably (but not definitely) be above her is because he's the villain of the original DKC, the most well-known of the trilogy where she wasn't present. I don't know what you're talking about with this "meme that extends into the outside world" stuff, the only times I've heard of him outside the context of his own games is in Smash fandom.

Fair enough. It was a big claim that Cranky was more iconic. Though at this point, he is a pretty well-known character in series and has been helped by his appearances in 64, which is as well-known (though not as well-regarded) as the country games (see also K. Rool).

Dixie's lady power iconography is overstated. It's certainly present, but she also isn't a Samus, Tomb Raider, or Tifa, let alone one of the many female icons of modern gaming. (I'm not really a fan of the for it's time argument, because we're talking about now, not the 90s.)

The fact that she (thankfully) hasn't been sexualized (by Nintendo) isn't actually all that relevant here, because whether or not a character is sexualized has little impact on their popularity (see Samus Aran, one of the most sexualized female characters in video game history, with more revealing clothing literally being the reward for speed runs of her first appearance as a woman, also being one of gaming's most iconic women for positive, non-sexual reasons).

Edited October 26, 2018 by Etheus

[Slumber]

12 minutes ago, Florete said:

Dixie is easily more iconic than any character called "Cranky Kong." Yes, this means I don't count his appearance as Donkey Kong in the arcade game, since that is still known as "Donkey Kong."

Dixie is a female character who starred in her own game in the 90s, a time when such a thing was actually a pretty big deal. She's also been a playable female character who was never sexualized in her games and was never in need of rescue. She's way ahead of Cranky Kong.

The only reason I would consider K. Rool to arguably (but not definitely) be above her is because he's the villain of the original DKC, the most well-known of the trilogy where she wasn't present. I don't know what you're talking about with this "meme that extends into the outside world" stuff, the only times I've heard of him outside the context of his own games is in Smash fandom.

I feel like we're going to have to define "Iconic".

Cranky is the original Donkey Kong, and has been in every single Donkey Kong game to my knowledge, even the non-main titles that were made by third parties. He hasn't been in the Mario crossovers nearly as much as K. Rool or Dixie, but he's been in more Donkey Kong games than either of them, even since they were introduced.

He's arguably more of a staple for the franchise than either Dixie Kong or K. Rool.

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I feel like we're going to have to define "Iconic".

Cranky is the original Donkey Kong, and has been in every single Donkey Kong game to my knowledge, even the non-main titles that were made by third parties. He hasn't been in the Mario crossovers nearly as much as K. Rool or Dixie, but he's been in more Donkey Kong games than either of them, even since they were introduced.

He's arguably more of a staple for the franchise than either Dixie Kong or K. Rool.

I said "any character called 'Cranky Kong'" for a reason. I don't care if he's the original Donkey Kong, he was "Donkey Kong" there. He's been in the DKC games, but wasn't even playable until Tropical Freeze. He's certainly a lesser-known, lesser-loved character than Dixie.

He's barely more iconic than Wrinkly Kong. At least I had to see her every time I wanted to save my game in DKC2 and 3.

[Silverly]

1) Shadow

2) Shadow 

3) Shadow

4) Lyn 

5) Shadow 

6) Shadow

7) Linkle

8) Shadow 

9) Shadow

10) Shadow

I’m not asking for much, as you can see. :P

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

1) Shadow

2) Shadow 

3) Shadow

4) Lyn 

5) Shadow 

6) Shadow

7) Linkle

8) Shadow 

9) Shadow

10) Shadow

I’m not asking for much, as you can see. :P

Bullshit. Now they have to track down and obtain the rights to 8 different characters named Shadow.

[Lightchao42]

I can't believe they added the Grinch to Super Smash Bros.! I wonder what his moveset will be...

Spoiler

The banner could be real, could be fake, but it seems too good to be true even if Sakurai is pulling from the ballot. It's a bit strange that there's no new Pokémon, an it's also a bit strange to wait until a month before release to reveal half of the new characters...

If it is fake, I imagine Mach Rider will regardless become a more popular pick for future games, like what happened to the Chorus Kids last game. Speaking of them, their presence mean it's definitely fake because I doubt the universe will let me have any significant Rhythm Heaven representation. If it is real, then good; at least I got one of my most wanted characters. Now we just need Rex and Pyra/Mythra, Dixie, and Bandana Waddle Dee and I'll be completely satisfied.

 

[Slumber]

10 minutes ago, Florete said:

I said "any character called 'Cranky Kong'" for a reason. I don't care if he's the original Donkey Kong, he was "Donkey Kong" there.

So, question:

Why does this not matter to you? It's not like he literally became a different character. He's the same dude Mario squared off against 35 years ago and is still being referenced in mainline Mario.

10 minutes ago, Florete said:

He's certainly a lesser-known, lesser-loved character than Dixie.

Citation needed.

10 minutes ago, Florete said:

He's barely more iconic than Wrinkly Kong. At least I had to see her every time I wanted to save my game in DKC2 and 3.

So Cranky being the hint giver in DKC1, the person you trade coins to in DKC2, the dude you play mini-games against in 3, the guy who upgrades your abilities in 64, and sets off the events of several games, including narrating DKCR and being playable in Tropical Freeze is barely more iconic than a character who manages your save data in two games and then dies off-screen and takes up Cranky's original role as hint giver for 64, and then only as a cameo in every game afterward?

Edited October 26, 2018 by Slumber

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

I can't believe they added the Grinch to Super Smash Bros.! I wonder what his moveset will be...

  Hide contents

The banner could be real, could be fake, but it seems too good to be true even if Sakurai is pulling from the ballot. It's a bit strange that there's no new Pokémon, an it's also a bit strange to wait until a month before release to reveal half of the new characters...

If it is fake, I imagine Mach Rider will regardless become a more popular pick for future games, like what happened to the Chorus Kids last game. Speaking of them, their presence mean it's definitely fake because I doubt the universe will let me have any significant Rhythm Heaven representation. If it is real, then good; at least I got one of my most wanted characters. Now we just need Rex and Pyra/Mythra, Dixie, and Bandana Waddle Dee and I'll be completely satisfied.

 

I can't wait to use the Grinch against Shrek, Master Chief, and Goku.