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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: Something to report, Professor (Byleth out now!)

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

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  1. 1. Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?



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Someone can find something offensive, but sometimes it's stupid/wrong and perhaps even disrespectful/rude to someone else. Say you're living in the US and decide to put a flag on your house that depicts the Christian cross or American stars and stripes and someone says they're offended because they're of a different religion or nationality. That's not cool, right? This is the US, we should be allowed to fly our own damn flag. And this country believes in freedom of religion.

Sad thing is, this very incident actually happened once. A guy was forced to take his AMERICAN FLAG off his house because someone was "offended" at it. Just because you can be offended at something doesn't make it right.

So say all you want that people are allowed to be offended, but there's a line that shouldn't be crossed and when you're over it, it just becomes dumb, petty, and literally violating someone else's rights. If it isn't actually hurting you or directly affecting your life, why be offended? Why not just ignore it?

But this is just my view.

Edited by Anacybele

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29 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not saying people can't find it offensive. I'm saying removing the spirits will further racism by reinforcing negative stereotypes instead of letting them die.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as rude, but. Like, why do you think letting the racial stereotypes - which you have implicitly admitted that they are - stand somehow "let's them die?" 

 

Like, I think it shouldn't just be a removal of those stereotypes but also a conversation about how they got into the game and why they continue to do so; absent the second part there's no way to check against them reappearing. 

 

And the alternative, to be blunt, is to let them continue un-analyzed and thereby say "this is OK. this is normal." No one thinks getting rid of a stereotype somehow reinforces it except in people who were already using it 

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56 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

You can’t find Pyra in World of Light, but you can find her in Spirit Board.

@Lightchao42
She also can be occasionally found for sale in Anna's shop (which is located in the same general area as Link) specifically. Mythra however can be found in WoL...just don't expect to run into her for a long time.

56 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Lastly there are a lot and I do mean a lot of Stamina battles.

Yeah. I don't think there's a single Street Fighter spirit battle that isn't one (and they all also nerf your and your opponent's ability to jump). About half of the Mega Man battles are stamina too (speaking of, use Ness or Lucas and PSI Magnet if you find yourself facing Dr. Wily's spirit; that battle is a complete piece of shit if you trying going at it normally).

Another tip: equipping a primary spirit that belongs to the same series as the fighter it's equipped to will give the spirit additional power.

Edited by Tybrosion

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Thank you all for the advice. I'll be on the lookout for Pyra though since she's best girl I would have aimed for her anyway. Is there any strategy towards getting Legendary spirits beyond grinding up a bunch of Ace spirits to level 99, or do I just tough it out (or abuse Kirbycide)?

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2 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Thank you all for the advice. I'll be on the lookout for Pyra though since she's best girl I would have aimed for her anyway. Is there any strategy towards getting Legendary spirits beyond grinding up a bunch of Ace spirits to level 99, or do I just tough it out (or abuse Kirbycide)?

Some of the Spirit Battles are over pretty quickly from using Olimar's F-Smash, as far as I've found. It hits REALLY HARD for some reason. Particularly when enhanced by spirits that enhance Smashes.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

So say all you want that people are allowed to be offended, but there's a line that shouldn't be crossed and when you're over it, it just becomes dumb, petty, and literally violating someone else's rights. If it isn't actually hurting you or directly affecting your life, why be offended? Why not just ignore it?

But this is just my view.

This is a horrible mentality to have in general. Just because something doesn't affect me directly doesn't mean I should just stand aside and do nothing.

Edited by Jave

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32 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Thank you all for the advice. I'll be on the lookout for Pyra though since she's best girl I would have aimed for her anyway. Is there any strategy towards getting Legendary spirits beyond grinding up a bunch of Ace spirits to level 99, or do I just tough it out (or abuse Kirbycide)?

Honestly, I tend to use Peach, spam Toad, sometimes float outside the arena and her Final Smash is pretty OP in Spirit Mode. Peach in general is really strong in Spirit Mode battles.

Speaking of Peach, you’re not far from her if you got Fox. Got through the path that it’s made of ribbons, where Slowpoke Dojo is, and there’s a castle nearby. She’s one of the two fighters that can be found inside the castle. Seriously, Peach is really strong for World of Light because of her Final Smash and her ability to float.

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24 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Is there any strategy towards getting Legendary spirits beyond grinding up a bunch of Ace spirits to level 99, or do I just tough it out (or abuse Kirbycide)?

Aside from having strong spirits like you said and making sure the spirit has a type advantage over legend (unless it's a neutral one like f*cking Baby Bowser, who thankfully isn't in WoL at least), the strategy can vary depending on the battle. Though since it's one that you're likely to find relatively early in WoL and is among the most infamous ones, make sure you go into Pauline's with a support spirit that gives you a Staff to start the battle (one such spirit, Cupid, isn't too far from Pauline). If you want to know why (spoilers for what the fight is):

Spoiler

It's a timed match (at most 2 minutes) on freaking 75m, where you have to KO a constantly fleeing Peach while being mercilessly hounded by Mario (who spawns in with a Hammer) and a giant Donkey Kong. Stopwatches will also tend to spawn in this battle, so good luck trying to reach them (and even if you do, pray it doesn't slow you down anyways) before Mario or DK does.

With a Staff, you can KO Peach (who starts on the opposite end from where you do, and Staves are more effective the further away the target is) in about three hits and save yourself a good deal of misery. You can also try to get Peach's AI to self-destruct, but that isn't nearly as reliable.

Also, be on the look out for spirits you can enhance. There's a good number of 1-star or 2-star spirits that become 4-star after enhancement like: Young Zelda, Skull Kid, Dark Suit, Nightmare's Power Orb, Keldeo (Ordinary Form), Zygarde (50% Forme), Diancie, Elincia, Medusa, Bulborb, Zero (Zero Buster), Mumkhar, Frog & Snake, and Dr. Kawashima. Most of these you'll eventually find in WoL, but just keep them in mind if you see any of them on the Spirit Board, in a shop, or happen to obtain them from a Classic Mode run.

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19 minutes ago, Jave said:

This is a horrible mentality to have in general. Just because something doesn't affect me directly doesn't mean I should just stand aside and do nothing.

So people who, say, are offended by LGBT+ people because of their religious beliefs should go ahead and force their hatred upon them and attack them. Right. It's not a horrible mentality at all. I personally would never allow someone to do that to any LGBT+ friends I might have. Just as an example.

Edited by Anacybele

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I forgot something that’s really important. @Lightchao42, it’s elemental attacks. As you probably noticed there spirits that boost things like PSI, Magic, Fire or Water attacks. But it’s not explained well what is considered an Elemental Attack. For example, what characters have Water attacks? Naturally you would thing Squirtle and Greninja right? Well, while it is true and these two have Water attacks another character that has Water elemental attacks, from what I’ve been told, is Inklings. Apparently, Ink attacks are considered Water elemental. PSI attack aren’t only Ness and Lucas, but apparently Mewtwo as well, Zelda and Robin aren’t the only one with magic attacks, Rosalina and Palutena also have attacks that are considered of the “Magic” element. Although to be fair, I’ve only read about most of these, so I’m not really sure it is entirely correct, but I do believe they are.

Edited by Water Mage

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1 hour ago, Alistair said:

Hopefully this doesn't come across as rude, but. Like, why do you think letting the racial stereotypes - which you have implicitly admitted that they are - stand somehow "let's them die?" 

 

Like, I think it shouldn't just be a removal of those stereotypes but also a conversation about how they got into the game and why they continue to do so; absent the second part there's no way to check against them reappearing. 

 

And the alternative, to be blunt, is to let them continue un-analyzed and thereby say "this is OK. this is normal." No one thinks getting rid of a stereotype somehow reinforces it except in people who were already using it 

Because I don't think they are racial stereotypes. I think people can draw racism from them, but that doesn't mean they were created to promote racist concepts. And treating them like they are promoting racist concepts when their not just perpetuates those concepts. I think all people should be treated the same, that means using a monkey to depict a black person or a white person (or any other race) should carry the same connotations. It doesn't because of historical use and people even today might still use it, but much less than in the Victorian era where it originated. Making the connection to racism when it wasn't intended is just redrawing the fading line and saying "Yes, there is a connection between black people and monkeys". It's making people connect black people to monkeys when the idea should be abandoned entirely.

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World of Light stuff:

  • When do I get the chance to take the other paths at the first intersection (the one with Marth, Sheik and Villager)?
  • Where are Peach, Daisy, Isabelle and Zelda?

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

World of Light stuff:

  • When do I get the chance to take the other paths at the first intersection (the one with Marth, Sheik and Villager)?
  • Where are Peach, Daisy, Isabelle and Zelda?

First question: reach one of the orange vortex-like things (which led to a sub-dungeon) and defeat the boss found there. After you do, the other two crossroad paths will be opened.

Second question: Peach is in the sub-dungeon that's based in the castle / fortress, where you'll have to eventually go to progress anyways. For Isabelle, you need to take a bus (which requires Kapp'n's spirit to use) that's located in a town-like area (which is also where Lucas is) on the far western end of the map (it's south of the temple that's being blocked by three gates). Though since there's two Kapp'n spirits, it's the one that has (Wild World) in its name and is a 2-star spirit (though the other Kapp'n spirit is used to access something else).

Daisy and Zelda...I can't answer without spoilers (assuming you don't already know):

Spoiler

There's a Dark Realm after you defeat Galeem, where you'll have to defeat his counterpart Dharkon. It's not as big as the Light Realm and is mostly just composed of three sub-areas (one north, one southeast, one southwest). Daisy is located in the southeast sub-area (you'll need to defeat Dry Bowser, a 4-star, to get to Daisy though) and Zelda is in the southwest sub-area. You also can't miss Zelda since she's required to awaken in order to get to the end of that sub-area.

 

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3 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

First question: reach one of the orange vortex-like things (which led to a sub-dungeon) and defeat the boss found there. After you do, the other two crossroad paths will be opened.

Second question: Peach is in the sub-dungeon that's based in the castle / fortress, where you'll have to eventually go to progress anyways. For Isabelle, you need to take a bus (which requires Kapp'n's spirit to use) that's located in a town-like area (which is also where Lucas is) on the far western end of the map (it's south of the temple that's being blocked by three gates). Though since there's two Kapp'n spirits, it's the one that has (Wild World) in its name and is a 2-star spirit (though the other Kapp'n spirit is used to access something else).

Daisy and Zelda...I can't answer without spoilers (assuming you don't already know):

  Reveal hidden contents

There's a Dark Realm after you defeat Galeem, where you'll have to defeat his counterpart Dharkon. It's not as big as the Light Realm and is mostly just composed of three sub-areas (one north, one southeast, one southwest). Daisy is located in the southeast sub-area (you'll need to defeat Dry Bowser, a 4-star, to get to Daisy though) and Zelda is in the southwest sub-area. You also can't miss Zelda since she's required to awaken in order to get to the end of that sub-area.

 

Nice to know. Thanks.

Are there any other particularly brutal Legend rank spirit fights like Pauline's? The only other one I can think of is Dr. Wily's (eight metal Mega Mans, and then Dr. Mario if you can survive those, which is a big if).

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11 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Are there any other particularly brutal Legend rank spirit fights like Pauline's? The only other one I can think of is Dr. Wily's (eight metal Mega Mans, and then Dr. Mario if you can survive those, which is a big if).

Depends on difficulty and what your set up is.

Tip: Bowser equipped with Metal Face and a Smash Attack enhancing spirit (like Victini) ends pretty much any fight in 5 seconds. Donkey Kong equipped with a Super Armor Spirit (like Walhart or Hector) and spamming Down-B is also a solid alternitave for ending things quick.

Edited by Armagon

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You don't necessarily have to beat a boss to take the other two paths. You can approach them from the other side to remove the block. No matter what you're doing, Viridi is definitely advised for the Wily battle.

Edited by Jotari

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21 hours ago, Anacybele said:

So people who, say, are offended by LGBT+ people because of their religious beliefs should go ahead and force their hatred upon them and attack them. Right. It's not a horrible mentality at all. I personally would never allow someone to do that to any LGBT+ friends I might have. Just as an example.

That's pretty far removed from the negative stereotype situation and a really bad comparison. Being "offended" by LGBT people is hateful in itself and therefore shouldn't be accepted, the limit to tolerance being that you can't tolerate ideologies that promote intolerance. Wanting to remove racist stereotypes from a game (which were almost certainly a series of oversights rather than intentional) isn't the same thing.

I can understand people wanting to defend Nintendo and the Smash development team, but a mistake is a mistake and the responsible thing is to fix it.

1 minute ago, Jave said:

Franklin Badge trivializes the Dr Wily battle to a point it's not even funny.

I used Lucas, PSI Magnet works on most of Mega Man's moves so it's easy to heal up

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20 minutes ago, Johann said:

That's pretty far removed from the negative stereotype situation and a really bad comparison. Being "offended" by LGBT people is hateful in itself and therefore shouldn't be accepted, the limit to tolerance being that you can't tolerate ideologies that promote intolerance. Wanting to remove racist stereotypes from a game (which were almost certainly a series of oversights rather than intentional) isn't the same thing.

You're missing the point. The point is that getting offended over little things is immature/rude and that's exactly what people have done with these spirit/fighter pairings. So like I said, being offended at something and speaking up doesn't make it right. Jave's point to me seemed to be that people are allowed to be offended at anything and everything and that others aren't allowed to feel that the offended person is acting petty and call them out for it. So I assumed by his logic, it's okay to be offended by LGBT+ people and call them out.

Imo, people are trying to ruin the fun of the game by making a big deal out of such a little thing. And as you pointed out, Sakurai's team obviously wasn't intending to do anything racist.

And these days, it feels like EVERYTHING is offensive to someone. It's just gone way too far, apparently must be so politically correct, and is ruining the fun in a lot of things.

Edited by Anacybele

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You're missing the point. The point is that getting offended over little things is immature/rude and that's exactly what people have done with these spirit/fighter pairings. So like I said, being offended at something and speaking up doesn't make it right. Jave's point to me seemed to be that people are allowed to be offended at anything and everything and that others aren't allowed to feel that the offended person is acting petty and call them out for it. So I assumed by his logic, it's okay to be offended by LGBT+ people and call them out.

Imo, people are trying to ruin the fun of the game by making a big deal out of such a little thing. And as you pointed out, Sakurai's team obviously wasn't intending to do anything racist.

And these days, it feels like EVERYTHING is offensive to someone. It's just gone way too far and is ruining the fun in a lot of things.

I originally replied to your post but chose to edit it since it's not worth trying to debate you, so I'll just say this since you brought it up again. You HEAVILY twisted my words and went into a complete opposite scenario where you made me look like the bad guy. I don't know how could you possibly get "It's okay to be offended by LGBT people" from my post, specially since I pointed out FROM THE VERY BEGINNING that there was likely no malicious intent from Nintendo's part on this.

And no, nobody is trying to ruin anyone's fun with this. Most game-changing scenario here is that Nintendo issues an apology, the game gets a patch where the Spirit battles gets changed to remove the offensive stuff, and that's it. It's not going to make the game any less fun.

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You're missing the point. The point is that getting offended over little things is immature/rude and that's exactly what people have done with these spirit/fighter pairings. So like I said, being offended at something and speaking up doesn't make it right. Jave's point to me seemed to be that people are allowed to be offended at anything and everything and that others aren't allowed to feel that the offended person is acting petty and call them out for it. So I assumed by his logic, it's okay to be offended by LGBT+ people and call them out.

Imo, people are trying to ruin the fun of the game by making a big deal out of such a little thing. And as you pointed out, Sakurai's team obviously wasn't intending to do anything racist.

And these days, it feels like EVERYTHING is offensive to someone. It's just gone way too far and is ruining the fun in a lot of things.

I think you're the one who's missing the point, both mine and Jave's. Portraying a black person as an ape is a racist, whether it was intentional or not. Calling out racism is definitely not immature or rude, and I'm puzzled to think why you'd consider it as such unless you're unaware as to how these pairings are racist.

If you find discussing what offends people to be ruining your fun, then you can avoid the conversation. How is removing a racist stereotype ruining anyone's fun unless they find racist stereotypes fun? If they do, fuck them and their fun.

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1 minute ago, Jave said:

I originally replied to your post but chose to edit it since it's not worth trying to debate you, so I'll just say this since you brought it up again. You HEAVILY twisted my words and went into a complete opposite scenario where you made me look like the bad guy. I don't know how could you possibly get "It's okay to be offended by LGBT people" from my post, specially since I pointed out FROM THE VERY BEGINNING that there was likely no malicious intent from Nintendo's part on this.

Then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I never intended to make you look bad. Really, I didn't. I'm aware that in the past I was a difficult person to argue with. I'm honestly trying really really hard not to go there again.

3 minutes ago, Jave said:

And no, nobody is trying to ruin anyone's fun with this. Most game-changing scenario here is that Nintendo issues an apology, the game gets a patch where the Spirit battles gets changed to remove the offensive stuff, and that's it. It's not going to make the game any less fun.

Okay, but since it was obviously not intended to offend, why change it? Why make a big deal of it? We know the reason for these spirit battle pairings, and it wasn't malicious, so...?

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I never intended to make you look bad. Really, I didn't. I'm aware that in the past I was a difficult person to argue with. I'm honestly trying really really hard not to go there again.

Okay, but since it was obviously not intended to offend, why change it? Why make a big deal of it? We know the reason for these spirit battle pairings, and it wasn't malicious, so...?

Because being unintentional doesn't make it right. I agree context and intention is important and should be taken into account, but if the end result is still offensive then it needs to be addressed. This may be something YOU personally don't care for, but for a lot of others, it is a big deal.

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6 minutes ago, Johann said:

I think you're the one who's missing the point, both mine and Jave's. Portraying a black person as an ape is a racist, whether it was intentional or not. Calling out racism is definitely not immature or rude, and I'm puzzled to think why you'd consider it as such unless you're unaware as to how these pairings are racist.

Yes, it is a racist thing to do. But in this case, it wasn't actually purposely portrayed that way. Nintendo wasn't doing that, so they were not being racist and I feel people are making too big a deal out of it because of that. If Nintendo HAD intentionally insulted black people, I would totally understand where people are coming from here. I'm not saying calling out racism is wrong, I'm saying calling something racist when it definitely isn't is wrong and immature.

Nintendo isn't racist. So calling them that for one little battle in one of their games is way overreaching.

EDIT: Then I guess we agree to disagree, Jave.

Edited by Anacybele

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