Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Perkilator]

I decided to make a thread for creating a Fighters Pass Vol. 3.

Let's Make a Fighters Pass Vol. 3 (Preface) - Super Smash Bros. - Serenes Forest Forums

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Sakurai finally appears on Harada's Bar. And although the precise connection wasn't made when they were talking, you can tell what Sakurai was implying with their opening chat. Sakurai can't let himself be associated so directly with other game developers because of the way we construct rumors. That if he had appeared on the show earlier, everybody would expect Tekken in Smash. Now that Tekken's in Smash, they can finally do the thing without fear of gossip.

The whole thing's a good watch. There's a lot about public images that people construct of prominent game developers. When really these are just normal guys with normal relationships to people and their work. And a totally out of left field, existentialist chat about what it means to be alive.

[Perkilator]

I'm still holding onto hope for a NEO TWEWY Spirit Event, but I'm gonna wait til it actually happens.

[Perkilator]

NHM3 Spirit Event right now

[King Marth 64]

I managed to cleared Classic Mode 9.9 Intensity Difficulty with Terry Bogard as well as cleared alot of Challenges except for Adventure since I'm still working on World of Light as of right now. Also, I'm wondered if that Yu Spirit is going to be Enchanced since the Game Notification did showed that there is two Spirits for the No More Heros III Spirit Event instead of the usual 3 or 4 we have gotten, but I did see there is like three of them shown in the image which that was more than just two that it was listed in the notification. (I haven't played a single No More Heroes game, I'm not sure what the third one was suppose to be between Travis and Yu?)

Edited August 26, 2021 by King Marth 64

[Perkilator]

Out of curiousity, how would you react if this was Ultimate's newcomer lineup?

Base Game

• Inkling
• Simon
• Richter
• Daisy
• Alph (Olimar Echo)
• Crash Bandicoot
• Ridley
• Chrom
• Shadow (Sonic Echo)
• Dark Samus
• King K. Rool
• Isabelle
• Ken
• Incineroar
• Bandana Waddle Dee

Vol.1

• Joker
• Hero
• Banjo & Kazooie
• Terry
• Sora

Vol. 2

• Min Min
• Phoenix Wright
• Sephiroth
• Pyra/Mythra
• Kazuya
• Steve

[Lord_Brand]

The lack of Krystal and Shantae would disappoint me, like always. But the addition of Crash would be neat.

At this point, I'll take Krystal as an Echo of Fox over not getting her as a fighter at all. One big difference could be that her Up Special, Rocket Boost, would use blue flames, thereby being Aura rather than Fire (similar to the differences between Simon and Richter's Holy Water). Technically, she was an Echo of sorts in Star Fox Adventures (though one could argue Fox was her Echo in that game, since we play her first), and she also plays exactly like Fox in Star Fox Assault (with the distinction of spawning with two Barriers instead of one in Versus). If they were to add a staff to Fox's moveset in Smash 6, then Krystal could use her staff in turn and still be an Echo, though I might make Fox's staff more mechanical in appeareance, with more angles and flat edges to contrast with the smooth, elegant design of Krystal's staff.

Incidentally, I've thought of giving Falco and Wolf some tweaks, as well. To Falco, I'd add jet boots that allow him to hover in air, pull off more acrobatic aerial stunts, and deliver more powerful kicks. In general, he'd be better at aerial combat than Fox but worse at ground combat. Wolf meanwhile would gain a knife (befitting his pirate-like nature) and become better at ground combat than Fox at the cost of being worse in the air.

And for all Star Fox characters, I've thought of adding an Arsenal mechanic that allows them to switch their Blasters out for other weapons a la Star Fox Assault, like the Machine Gun, Sniper Rifle, Homing Launcher, and Grenades. Though a lot of those would also work well as new Shooting Items in Smash 6. I'd also add a charge function for the Blasters, with the added effect of locking on to a target and firing a homing shot, referencing both the Blasters' charge shot in Assault and the homing charge shot introduced in Star Fox 64.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Zapp Branniglenn]

While it is true that Alph was planned to be what we now call echo fighters, with rock pikmin replacing purples at least aesthetically, I think that would have been a mistake. Do Charlie instead. He's got the best facial expressions in the series, and you could justify making him a heavier/slower version due to him just being physically larger. If they wanted to continue the same low effort design for Pikmin characters, then just have all six of them in the game. After all, Olimar and Alph don't have voice acting in Smash, nor any unique animations. Alph even enters the battle in Olimar's ship which is a pretty serious oversight if you ask me. The Drake is HIS ship, and it's not even there in Smash.

If I had it my way, all six would be in as skins. Olimar, Louie, and the President as the first slot, using the five pikmin types from pikmin 2. Then the Pikmin 3 trio for the echo slot, packing Rocks in place of purples. Have the first three be much heavier yet slightly slower (they are a different species that's characterized with a more ravenous appetite than those from planet Koppai). I'd also change up the Up Bs. The Pikmin 3 trio can keep the current one, while the first three can just have what they did back in Brawl, but with a jetpack hover from Pikmin 3DS added so they could reach farther with just their three pikmin. I like this dynamic because one of the up Bs rewards you for a low pikmin count while the other depends on a high pikmin count.

While I'm on my soapbox, maybe incorporate sprays into Olimar's moveset one of these days? A one use ultra spicy spray per stock sounds fun. In particular I would have it double the latch damage that pikmin do, as well as making it much harder to shake them off or kill them with attacks. Maybe make it neutral B whenever Olimar's in the air (since there's no move there). Or double tap Down B (since that first press recalls all living pikmin to you, which is what the player will want regardless). Ultra bitter spray from Pikmin 2 is another potential move, turning enemies in front of you to stone, or just inflicting a stun effect if they don't want to go to the trouble of making an entirely new visual. Bomb rocks are another cool idea. What if they just spawned periodically on stage, and you had to throw a pikmin directly at them in order to pick them up? Then when you get around to attacking with that pikmin, they toss the bomb in that associated direction as a projectile. That way it's true to the source material without taking up a move slot on the character.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Glennstavos

[Lord_Brand]

10 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

While it is true that Alph was planned to be what we now call echo fighters, with rock pikmin replacing purples at least aesthetically, I think that would have been a mistake. Do Charlie instead. He's got the best facial expressions in the series, and you could justify making him a heavier/slower version due to him just being physically larger. If they wanted to continue the same low effort design for Pikmin characters, then just have all six of them in the game. After all, Olimar and Alph don't have voice acting in Smash, nor any unique animations. Alph even enters the battle in Olimar's ship which is a pretty serious oversight if you ask me. The Drake is HIS ship, and it's not even there in Smash.

If I had it my way, all six would be in as skins. Olimar, Louie, and the President as the first slot, using the five pikmin types from pikmin 2. Then the Pikmin 3 trio for the echo slot, packing Rocks in place of purples. Have the first three be much heavier yet slightly slower (they are a different species that's characterized with a more ravenous appetite than those from planet Koppai). I'd also change up the Up Bs. The Pikmin 3 trio can keep the current one, while the first three can just have what they did back in Brawl, but with a jetpack hover from Pikmin 3DS added so they could reach farther with just their three pikmin. I like this dynamic because one of the up Bs rewards you for a low pikmin count while the other depends on a high pikmin count.

While I'm on my soapbox, maybe incorporate sprays into Olimar's moveset one of these days? A one use ultra spicy spray per stock sounds fun. In particular I would have it double the latch damage that pikmin do, as well as making it much harder to shake them off or kill them with attacks. Maybe make it neutral B whenever Olimar's in the air (since there's no move there). Or double tap Down B (since that first press recalls all living pikmin to you, which is what the player will want regardless). Ultra bitter spray from Pikmin 2 is another potential move, turning enemies in front of you to stone, or just inflicting a stun effect if they don't want to go to the trouble of making an entirely new visual. Bomb rocks are another cool idea. What if they just spawned periodically on stage, and you had to throw a pikmin directly at them in order to pick them up? Then when you get around to attacking with that pikmin, they toss the bomb in that associated direction as a projectile. That way it's true to the source material without taking up a move slot on the character.

Take a close look on the right side of this screenshot, in the blue tile area. Tell me what you see.

Rocks and Purples aren't really interchangeable; Purples are designed to stun with the shockwaves they create while Rocks are designed to break stuff when you throw them at it. That could translate to, say, making opponents trip and breaking shields more easily, respectively. Furthermore, Purples hold on like any other kind of Pikmin while Rocks cannot. I'd just have Red, Yellow, Blue, Purple, White, and Rock all be available via plucking, while Winged are reserved for the U Special. As far as Echoes go, you'd have to alter Brittany and Charlie a little bit so they can use the same rig as Olimar and Alph (kinda like the Koopalings and Bowser Jr.), otherwise their rig joints will be a little different. But if you do, I'm not against having them, Louie, and the HF President all be included as alts as well. Maybe by the time Smash 6 comes around, we'll see Pikmin 4 happen and there'll be at least two additional new captains to fill the final two alt slots? Though in all likelihood, they'll have four to keep with the game number.

Ultra-Spicy Spray is one example of where a separate Action button could be useful. Though Olimar has yet to make use of the Shield + Special command as well.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Ultra-Spicy Spray is one example of where a separate Action button could be useful. Though Olimar has yet to make use of the Shield + Special command as well.

Or they could bring back custom specials and actually design movesets with them as a facet and not as a (appreciated) tact on addition like they were in Smash 4.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Take a close look on the right side of this screenshot, in the blue tile area. Tell me what you see.

 

Something that could be despawned if somebody is playing as Alph. Like Toon Link in the train stage. Or certain assist trophies in other stages (knuckles in green hill, Alucard in Wii Fit). That is no excuse for giving him the wrong ship.

Quote

Rocks and Purples aren't really interchangeable; Purples are designed to stun with the shockwaves they create while Rocks are designed to break stuff when you throw them at it. That could translate to, say, making opponents trip and breaking shields more easily, respectively. Furthermore, Purples hold on like any other kind of Pikmin while Rocks cannot.

There ARE differences between pikmin, yes. But I don't need to be Sakurai to tell you it's kind of a waste of time to emulate everything right? I would expect those details in a Pikmin game, but Smash should be allowed some liberties. If you want to point out stuff they got wrong, start with the obvious things that have no excuse. Like giving Ness and Lucas moves they can never learn. Or taking away Luigi's canonical wall jump in favor of other weirdoes like Villager that don't need it.

As you point out, Purples don't cause a shockwave as they land in Smash. And purples, like all the pikmin types don't turn and attack a nearby opponent if they fail to hit something, they'll just return to Olimar. There are other incongruities with the pikmin. Blues die to Greninja's water shurikens or water swords while reds never die to a sword with a fire element. The whites don't cause massive damage when eaten by Kirby/Wario/Dedede, since they didn't program them to be eaten in the first place. Imagine a pikmin game where pikmin can't be eaten by enemies. Whites also have no immunity to Piranha Plant's or Joker's Side specials. 

[Perkilator]

Here's some Ace Attorney content I made for Smash:

• A moveset for Nick
• The AA stage and its songs
• Nick's Spirit Board

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Oh my god the finale of No More Heroes 3 is incredible

Spoiler

No I am NOT in the wrong sub forum lol

 

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Oh my god the finale of No More Heroes 3 is incredible

  Reveal hidden contents

No I am NOT in the wrong sub forum lol

 

Dang. I want to play it, but still have both Great Ace Attorney games to get through. You have me mad curious as to why you've posted it here, but I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I immediately interpreted this as some sort of Crash Bash remake/sequel announced at tomorrow's Sony State of Sony. Ugh, but do we really need to be reminded that Crash Bash was a thing?  Of course the internet sees only Smash in this tweet. What if...playstation All Stars got its sequel announced and Crash was one of the first confirmed fighters!? I think I will board that hype train instead.

[Lord_Brand]

C'mon and Smash, and get ready for the Crash!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Crash is 25 years old today. Not only am I older. I am significantly less successful career wise.

[Perkilator]

Crackpot Smash idea: WoL still mostly consists of Spirit Battles on the overworld, but then there's also the occasional SSE-like stage, like:

• Fleeting Plains (before you resuce Mario)
• Airship (guarding the Molten Fortress)
• Gourmet Race (just turn the existing sub-area into this)
• Mine Cart Madness (within the DK Island)
• Planet Zebes (within the space area)
• Ganon's Castle (within the Sacred Land)
• Dracula's Castle (just turn the existing sub-area into this)
• Final Battle (basically the same climb-up as before, but with actual enemies and is closer to an actual platforming level)

[Lord_Brand]

Nintendo Direct tomorrow at 3PM PST. Think there'll be any Smash news? Like the reveal of our final DLC fighter?

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[King Marth 64]

I definitely think it's going to be a 2nd SNK Franchise Rep will be revealed as the Final Challenger Pack Fighter. I definitely do know that SNK is currently the only 3rd Party Company without a 2nd SNK Franchise Rep after Kazuya was been as the 2nd Bandai Namco Franchise Rep since some Bandai Namco fans wanted as 2nd Bandai Namco Franchise Rep since Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U. I definitely do know that Sakurai did said that he's still working on Challenger Pack 11 in Kazuya's Presentation, I definitely do think it's going to be an Animation only Trailer for tomorrow since Joker and Terry did get Animation only Trailers while they were in middle of development back then.

Edited September 22, 2021 by King Marth 64

[Perkilator]

Mark your calendars, everyone

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I hope the new character releases later that day. Because if they're out on October 8th, I'll consider that a personal attack. There's only one game I intend to play that day and I won't stop until it's finished.

[Lightchao42]

31 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I hope the new character releases later that day. Because if they're out on October 8th, I'll consider that a personal attack. There's only one game I intend to play that day and I won't stop until it's finished.

The final character will likely release a week or two after the presentation, which is customary for characters that haven't been revealed before their presentation. Byleth was released 12 days post-presentation and Min Min was released seven days after hers. Pyra and Mythra were released 15 days after their announcement, which was the longest announcement/release gap within FP2, so I'd expect the last character to release October 19th at latest.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Lightchao42 said:

The final character will likely release a week or two after the presentation, which is customary for characters that haven't been revealed before their presentation. Byleth was released 12 days post-presentation and Min Min was released seven days after hers. Pyra and Mythra were released 15 days after their announcement, which was the longest announcement/release gap within FP2, so I'd expect the last character to release October 19th at latest.

I don't think those examples have anything special in common? If you don't ignore the rest, you'll see results all over the map. Kazuya released the very next day. Joker was released the following day, but by that point they didn't have the Sakurai stream format, it was more like a "Smash Direct" sort of video. Sephiroth dropped later that day (provided you could beat him in that special event mode), Banjo, Terry, Hero all released on the same day as the stream. So the only pattern is that there is no pattern.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Lightchao42]

8 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I don't think those examples have anything special in common? If you don't ignore the rest, you'll see results all over the map. Kazuya released the very next day. Joker was released the following day, but by that point they didn't have the Sakurai stream format, it was more like a "Smash Direct" sort of video. Sephiroth dropped later that day (provided you could beat him in that special event mode), Banjo, Terry, Hero all released on the same day as the stream. So the only pattern is that there is no pattern.

I used Byleth and Min Min as examples because they were revealed during their presentations, like the final character will be, while the characters you listed were revealed weeks or months beforehand. Steve also wasn't released the day of his presentation because he was announced only two days prior. Presumably the developers can't fully work on preparing to release the character until they've been announced.

If you're curious about the announcement/release gaps for the current DLC characters:

• Piranha Plant: 2 months, 28 days (early release) or 3 months (full release)
• Joker: 4 months, 11 days
• Hero: 1 month, 19 days
• Banjo & Kazooie: 2 months, 24 days

• Terry: 2 months, 2 days
• Byleth: 12 days
• 
Min Min: 7 days
• Steve: 12 days
• Sephiroth: 7 days (early release) or 12 days (full release)
• 
Pyra/Mythra: 15 days
• Kazuya: 14 days